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#rockbox log for 2015-10-18

00:27:39 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 42.0/20151015151621])
00:31:11[Franklin]how do those wifi sd cards work?
00:33:31[Franklin]are they for transferring files over wifi on devices that can't do it differently?
00:38:58 Quit ender` (Quit: If it wasn't for C, we'd be writing programs in BASI, PASAL, and OBOL.-- A Programmer (@1Pr0grammer))
00:43:18 Join Strife89 [0] (
00:43:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:44:33fifthshiftathome[Franklin], basically
00:45:02fifthshiftathometalking about the EyeFi things?
00:45:25fifthshiftathomeI've never used one, but that's exactly what they do, as I understand it
00:45:31[Franklin]so you copy a file to the SD card, and it pops up somewhere else?
00:45:56*[Franklin] hoped that they were filesystem-based wifi adapters
00:46:14fifthshiftathomeI think it connects to a network and acts as a networked drive on it
00:46:51fifthshiftathomeanyone know how long I should expect this emcore installer to take to format my 256gb sd card?
00:47:02TheSevena couple of seconds
00:47:06fifthshiftathomeit's been about 5 minutes
00:47:09[Franklin]can I make rockbox print a stack dump or call trace?
00:47:14TheSeventhat's way too long
00:47:22fifthshiftathomeso something is messed up then
00:47:23TheSevenno progress indicated yet?
00:47:35fifthshiftathomejust says formatting, no progress bar or anything if there's supposed to be one
00:47:54fifthshiftathomeI might have installed the CF->SD thing wrong
00:47:57[Franklin]it'd save me a lot of debugging if it could
00:48:11fifthshiftathomeor not put the ribbon back in all the way
00:48:13TheSevenfifthshiftathome: which emcore build are you using?
00:48:49TheSevenfifthshiftathome: if you aren't, try using the latest one from the installation instructions
00:48:52fifthshiftathomefollowing the instrutions here
00:48:59TheSevenok, that should be fine then
00:49:31TheSevensomewhat likely to be a hardware issue then
00:49:34fifthshiftathomeany easy way to troubleshoot before I take this thing apart again?
00:49:58TheSevenit definitely has trouble accessing the card, it's just the question why
00:50:18fifthshiftathomewell, shit
00:50:28fifthshiftathomeI'll open it up... I hope the card wasn't DOA
00:50:28TheSevencould be anything from a software bug on our side, or a loose cable, to a card that's somehow incompatible with the adapter
00:50:32fifthshiftathomeor that
00:51:16gevaerts[Franklin]: have a look at what panic() does
00:51:52*[Franklin] will just call panic()
00:52:02[Franklin]... except I can't :(
00:52:18[Franklin]it's not in the API, any reason for this?
00:52:59[Saint]ain't nobody gots time fo dat.
00:53:36 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
00:54:28gevaertsIt's not in the usual API because rockbox is not a rockbox debugger
00:56:52[Franklin]__builtin_return_address() won't work when level!=0 :(
00:57:48[Franklin]argh! I'll just put debug messages in the code then
00:59:01*[Franklin] found the bug! forgot to compare strcmp's return == 0
01:00:29[Franklin]and now, time to take /out/ all the debug messages :P
01:10:24fifthshiftathomeI hate the ipod classic case, so much
01:10:41fifthshiftathomeI'm not even taking this stupid thing apart right now
01:10:52fifthshiftathomeI was getting too frustrated with those clips
01:11:15[Saint]the 'fat' ones are a: a lot better (IMO), and b: a lot more forgiving in this regard.
01:11:23fifthshiftathomeanyone have any thoughts on 3d printing a better case for the 7th gen components? has anyone done this yet?
01:11:32[Saint]the ones with the stupid aluminium curved backing are a bloody nightmare.
01:11:52fifthshiftathome[Saint], i'm not sure which I have
01:12:17fifthshiftathomethere's an aluminum shell which wraps around to a matte black front
01:12:25[Saint]Is the back shiny and chrome, or dull aluminium?
01:12:25fifthshiftathomebut it is kinda fat
01:12:38fifthshiftathomemmm, yes?
01:12:47fifthshiftathomeIt's been scratched all to hell
01:12:50fifthshiftathomeso it's definitely dull now
01:13:01fifthshiftathomebut I'm not sure whether I would have called it dull or shiny originally
01:13:14[Saint]It should be pretty obvious.
01:13:22[Saint]Ever seen one of the older iPod generations?
01:13:48fifthshiftathomeit's that
01:13:57[Saint]by 'shiny and chrome', I'm not in fact referencing Mad Max, but, rather, it would literally be a strainless mirror image finish.
01:14:17[Saint]either that or boring aluminium.
01:15:02fifthshiftathomeyeah it was mirror image
01:15:40fifthshiftathomethe back was
01:15:56fifthshiftathomeit's either a 6th or a 7th gen
01:15:58[Saint]My favorite model is the old fat original 6G 160GB one.
01:16:19[Saint]came with a substantially larger battery, for...reasons.
01:16:36[Saint]850mAh vs 650mAh from memory.
01:16:49fifthshiftathomeright on
01:17:24fifthshiftathomeI think the replacement battery I bought like a year ago when I first started planning doing this was 900mAh
01:17:25[Saint]sadly we've got no way of determining which is which reliably so the battery runtime code (even if it was right) would never work reliably.
01:17:48fifthshiftathomewhich I didn't have any real appreciation for until just now
01:17:51[Saint]that fact gives me no desire to work on the runtime detection.
01:18:02fifthshiftathomeif I might have a 650mAh in the thing currently
01:18:38fifthshiftathometrying to detect the remaining life in the battery?
01:18:54fifthshiftathomeor its capacity?
01:19:04[Saint]we can do that reliably based on voltage, detecting the estimated runtime is significantly more difficult.
01:19:11fifthshiftathomeoh gotcha
01:19:31[Saint]especially if someone's going to be removing the original disk, because we need to estimate usage.
01:19:35fifthshiftathomeI imagine you sort of have to have historical data
01:19:48fifthshiftathomeor at least a few good datapoints to extrapolate from
01:20:01fifthshiftathomesort of like how I think batterybot on Android does it
01:21:01fifthshiftathomehow I would do it anyway, if I were making something like batterybot and didn't have access to whatever hardware abstraction stuff that could just report those kinds of stats
01:21:46fifthshiftathomereally rought estimate at first, and start tracking until you have enough data to narrow it down
01:22:35fifthshiftathomewoul dbe a good excuse to stress test a few ipods, if you were gonna do that sort of thing
01:22:52[Saint]It kinda fell into a lump of things that wasn't particularly important since the average user will never see this information anyway and we deliberately hide this in a "do not fuck with this shit" menu.
01:22:59[Saint]But, it would be nice to get right.
01:23:06[Saint]Or, at least in the same ballpark.
01:23:18[Saint]Not many orders of magnitude offbase as it is now.
01:25:57[Saint]should probably make a build time modifier to hide that in production builds.
01:26:47[Saint](or rather, hide it by default and make a build time modifier to expose it)
01:27:37 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection)
01:27:58[Saint]putting "Keep Out!" in a menu string essentailly means "Hey, Johnny and Janey, poke at all this stuff and then come hassle us when you think you've broken something"
01:30:27[Saint]I made a very simple build time modifier to replace the USB VID/PID on the iPods with a completely bullshit out-of-spec value, but I'm skeptical of even submitting it. It's very highly questionable grounds doing so.
01:30:39[Saint]But, then, so is re-using the OEMs identifiers, so...
01:41:38fifthshiftathomeEh, USB specs are more like guidelines anyway
01:41:52fifthshiftathomeand the whole VID/PID thing is a clusterfuck as it is
01:42:34fifthshiftathomemanufacturers seem to so rarely bother to put the accurate info in
01:43:11fifthshiftathomeif it makes it easier on you to modify it, I don't think anyone would really care
01:43:38fifthshiftathomey'all are hobbyists anyway, right? Not a licensed business... No one is selling new mp3 players with rockbox on them
01:44:48fifthshiftathomeI don't think the IETF police (or whomever is responsible for maintaining all that stuff) is gonna come after you
01:46:45[Saint]I absolutely sincerely doubt it would happen, but in the odd world that is the TPPA draft text, they very well could.
01:47:02[Saint]there's some very broad strokes in that wording.
01:56:58fifthshiftathomeyeah but with any luck that won't be ratified
01:57:17fifthshiftathomethe public in my corner of society is pretty well aware of it and no one likes it
01:57:26fifthshiftathomeeven Hillary Clinton suddenly doesn't like it
01:57:32fifthshiftathomeafter pushing for it for years
01:58:12*fifthshiftathome not trying to talk politics
01:58:17[Saint]NZ, where I am, is in it balls deep.
01:58:29[Saint]largely depressing.
01:58:33fifthshiftathomethat sucks
01:58:56fifthshiftathomewhat would be the benefit to overwriting the VID/PID for the project?
01:59:11fifthshiftathomeyou can already tell when a thing is an ipod or whatever running rockbox, right?
02:01:26[Saint]car stereos, macs, home theater, etc. can get all weird and refuse to talk shop when they see it's an iPod. Want to use pieces of the iPod accessory protocol we don't cater for, want to access an iTunes db that might not even exist, and just roll over and refuse to treat it as generic storage.
02:02:22[Saint]and on the ipod6g for instance there's no luxury of dualboot or forcing disk mode.
02:03:19[Saint]though there's a very determined and bright mind working on making that a thing.
02:04:05fifthshiftathomeah okay
02:04:45fifthshiftathomeso like for example, my car stereo has an ipod jack and when I plug in the ipod, it puts a KIA logo on the ipod screen and takes over control of it
02:05:06fifthshiftathomeit does that, ofc, due to the VID/PID saying "yup this is an ipod"
02:05:22fifthshiftathomebut if there are things rockbox can do that the normal ipod OS can't
02:05:41fifthshiftathomemy car stereo saying "up this is an ipod" might interfere with that
02:05:46fifthshiftathomeor even prevent it outright
02:09:31fifthshiftathomea question I've had for awhile now though is
02:09:57fifthshiftathomethat KIA logo I get; that's coming from the stereo, right? it's not predefined on the ipod
02:10:34 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
02:10:51fifthshiftathomemeaning if I made a thing capable of doing that kind of interfacing with the ipod, I could potentially make it display whatever I want
02:11:46fifthshiftathomealternatively, if it is predefined on the ipod, I could alter the image that way
02:11:51 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739)
02:12:47[Saint]yeah, it gets sent over from the head unit via the ipod accessory protocol.
02:13:19fifthshiftathomesounds like I should look into the ipod accessory protocol
02:16:39 Nick suYin is now known as suYin`OFF (
02:30:43*[Franklin] thinks the solution to the VID/PID conundrum is to get one (for free?)
02:35:24fifthshiftathome apparently sells them
02:35:53TheSevenyup, $2000 or so
02:35:56[Franklin]there was some project that was giving away free ones for open-source projects
02:36:05[Franklin]PIDs, that is
02:36:16TheSevenyou probably mean openmoko
02:37:05TheSevenbtw, the fee was increased to $5000 in the meantime
02:37:20TheSevenstill fairly low actually, I'm wondering why they didn't already run out of VID space at that price
02:37:28 Quit ivologger (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
02:38:04[Franklin]TheSeven: because nobody really bothers
02:38:33[Franklin]there's no real advantage to doing so
02:38:42TheSevenwell we really considered getting one at a fairly small company
02:39:01TheSevenand if companies of that size do consider this, I guess there are millions of those...
02:39:35TheSevenI kinda wonder why they didn't spend a few more bits on the vendor ID
02:39:51[Franklin]2^16 is TINY nowadays
02:40:17fifthshiftathomehence why many manufacturers seem to just wing it
02:40:36fifthshiftathome"fuck it slap our VID and a generic PID on there, windows will figure it out"
02:40:56[Franklin]well, maybe someone should try shooting an application email to openmoko then
02:41:40TheSeventhere's no such thing as generic IDs in USB, that's the problem
02:42:20[Saint]that's called theft. :)
02:42:23TheSevenI remember that someone here seriously considered applying for an openmoko id years ago - no idea why that wasn't pursued in the end
02:42:41[Saint]we kinda decided it would be best coming from one of the founders.
02:43:01[Franklin]maybe they need some prodding :P
02:43:17[Saint]they've all publicly bailed out.
02:43:29[Saint]we need to revisit our structuring.
02:43:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:43:43TheSevenif prodding them to fix the patch tracker takes weeks, I'm not too hopeful about USB IDs ;)
02:43:53*[Franklin] just goes ahead and writes the email
02:48:55[Franklin]should I ask for multiple PIDs for each device?
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14:36:38pamaurydammit, those jz7460 have some many discrepancies with the datasheet
14:36:45pamauryI don't know which one to trust
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17:51:43[Franklin]can I use BSD code in rockbox?
17:53:31[Franklin]glibc's implementation of strtol is virtually unreadable
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18:27:00gevaertsWhat does "BSD" mean in this context?
18:28:46gevaertsShould be OK
18:29:11[Franklin]so just drop it in the code with the copyright?
18:29:13*gevaerts actually suspects that it's a better match license-wise than current glibc :)
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20:46:05Len they are really that good?
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23:10:13Lencan someone post idk.. top 3 of sansa players which support rockbox ?:)
23:10:33Lenbased on battery/quality of sound
23:11:43[Saint]All the Clip series is pretty much identical in that regard.
23:12:08[Saint]There's nothing particularly astounding about any of the sansas.
23:12:20[Saint]cheap DAP is cheap.
23:13:31Lenso.. something else not sansa, but with rockbox onboard?
23:13:44Lennot top then, but mid range ?
23:13:45[Franklin]E200 and c200 are also supported
23:13:47[Saint]If sound quality is the absolute concern, ipod6g.
23:14:19[Saint]Second to that, the iPod Video probably.
23:16:03LenI know nothing about ipods.. ipod6g == touch? nano?
23:16:58[Saint]iPod Classic 6G (also covers the 7G iteration), last iteration of the iPod line.
23:17:24[Saint]Probably more expensive then you were thinking.
23:17:35[Saint]But definitely not what I would call top end.
23:17:42Lenused 240 € :o
23:19:09 Quit einhirn_ (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.
23:20:33Lenoh, whitescreen on sansa ;v
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