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#rockbox log for 2015-10-22

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00:29:34ulmutulCan someone please close FS #12508? This has been fixed in 91be7ab.
00:29:35fs-bluebot 3[snake plugins] Manual claims for a button to change level which doesn't exist in the code (bugs, unconfirmed)
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02:36:54[Franklin]is the sansa 30-pin compatible with the ipod 30-pin connector?
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03:58:02jtdesigns01would playing midi be too much to ask of any of our targets while playing a doom-type game?
03:58:56jtdesigns01i know that SW:DF runs on my Powermac G3 which has ~300MHZ cpu
03:59:19jtdesigns01and SW:DF uses midi for its music
03:59:38jtdesigns01but maybe its being offloaded
03:59:47jtdesigns01anyone know?
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04:58:01Strife89jtdesigns01: For Rockbox, probably. On the hardware it's for, RAM is just as (or more) limited than processing power, and since Rockbox's MIDI plugin does things entirely in software ...
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15:39:46wodzpamaury: have you started hwstub lib rework?
15:46:05 Quit Mir (Remote host closed the connection)
16:04:16pamaurywodz: yes
16:04:44pamauryI've given quite some thoughts about it
16:05:32pamauryand my conclusion is that with a smart rewrite (and with nearly no changes to the API), we can handle all the concurrency/multiple handles problems in the library itself. This would simplify hwstub_server a lot
16:06:14pamauryand I think it would be better to rewrite it in C++, with a C++ and C interface
16:07:14 Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
16:07:24pamaurybut I have been very busy this week so the rework progress has been small, although I have I hope for tonight and tomorrow
16:10:14wodzpamaury: the server still needs to spawn thread per client, no?
16:11:56pamaurybut now the library would make it possible to have several handles for a single device
16:12:03pamauryand would serialize the operations
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16:15:02pamaurywodz: I'll upload some code tonight, even if it doesn't compile, so that you can see/comment
16:15:46wodzI'll by happy to review
16:16:58wodzpamaury: BTW. I figured out atj213x line can have 2 versions of nand controller. It is determined based on value stored in ROM and subsequent tests performed.
16:17:37wodzoh, and onda vx525 is atj213x based
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16:18:51pamaurynice finding, it is very different ?
16:19:24pamauryI didn't even know about the onda vx525
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17:50:01prof_wolfff[Saint]: i have tried the play/pause shutdown several times with no problem (ATM my battery if almost full), but i remember to see that issue sometimes, i wonder if it is caused because the battery voltage reading drops too much when HDD spin-up, on the other hand the voltage increases when battery is charging
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17:52:01prof_wolfffmany things needs to be done, ATM there is a basic battery reading and not much more, must find a way to normalize battery readings, g#898 solves wall adaptor detection using an indirect method, but the final solution needs to poll the PMU (that probably also needs a new thread to manage this and other PMU data and interrupts), other thing to try is to detect an USB charger to limit the current to 1000mA (instead of 500mA) for fast
17:52:01prof_wolfff charge
17:52:13fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #898 at : 3iPod Nano 2G and Classic: Fix power and charging detection. by Michael Sparmann
17:52:37prof_wolfffTheSeven: i think that g#898 can be commited, so i can add other changes over it
17:52:49fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #898 at : 3iPod Nano 2G and Classic: Fix power and charging detection. by Michael Sparmann
17:54:05 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
17:54:14prof_wolfff[Saint]: i was looking at the slow LCD update issue, i installed cabbie2 theme that includes a peak meter (i always used the default theme), browsing the menus is fast (i think it is boosted), but the WPS is very slow and the peak meter seems delayed more than 500ms, it helps when the titles are not scrolling (short titles), i have not look at the code yet but i need to verify if WPS is boosted, and revise pcm_play_dma_get_peak_buf
17:54:14prof_wolffffer() as TheSeven pointed
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18:42:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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18:47:06DextraI have a question about the sansa clip, it seems to distort the music I am playing and its either having an annoying sound or changing the potch/speed of the song sometimes
18:50:06Dextrait happens a lot on certain types, but on the OF it doesn't do that. Any settings I can change? I am using the nightlys but when I tried 3.1.3 it gave me an error on every song play
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19:12:27DextraIt has an annoying crackling and pop which I assume is due to caching, when I reverse a song for instance, it will no longer have the crackling
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19:27:31[Saint]Oh sweet 'lil babby Jeebus.
19:27:49[Saint]SOmeone on the forums wrote me a fricken' tome.
19:28:09[Saint]Flowing prose, declaring their love for me.
19:29:04Dextraa wall of love
19:30:30Dextra[Saint] dp you know about my issue? I think its a firmware problem but I don't know where its from
19:31:09[Saint]I can't say I have ever heard of any issue where playback speed and/or pitch is changed.
19:31:36[Saint]I'm not actually sure offhand what method any form of error would be taking to present such an issue.
19:31:47DextraIt has distoritions, so I think its a buffering issue
19:32:14[Saint]Noisy disc aaccess and/or SoC boosting on these is well known, though.
19:32:32[Saint]They pretty much completely lack any shielding.
19:32:38gevaertsBuffering issues would give drop-outs, not distortion
19:32:55DextraI looked it up a lot, and it seems like an unsolved issue in the problems section, but it doesn't appear on the OFW and when I make the song go back, it would not have that problem
19:33:35DextraLike lets say I have a song and its distorting at 2:15 to 2:30, I could hold rewind to 2:00 and play it again and it wouldn't have any distortions
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19:36:22Dextra I think it is similar to this one
19:37:27DextraWould a line out of the song help?
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19:58:31DextraIs there a fix for this issue?
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20:42:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:45:40[Saint]Man, that was hard.
20:46:11[Saint]I must've wrote that response and deleted it about four times.
20:52:35*gevaerts replies
20:52:41gevaertsI probably shouldn't have, but...
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21:00:18 Nick hearn is now known as Guest5962 (8c8299c4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
21:05:15Guest5962how to configure for snasa clip zip? I could not find it in tools/configure?
21:05:25 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
21:06:24gevaertsGuest5962: unless you're looking at a really old source tree, it *is* there
21:06:32gevaerts(number 65)
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21:10:49Guest5962"Sansa Clip+" Target work for "Sansa Clip ZIp" ?
21:11:51[Saint]Why would it?
21:13:35[Saint]Guest5962: the Clip Zip build, unsurprisingly, does however work for the Clip Zip.
21:13:55Dextra[Saint] do you know how to fix my issue? or if there is a fix?
21:14:20[Saint]Dextra: If I did I would have said so long ago I'm afraid.
21:14:37DextraHmm any dirty tricks or a way at all to fix it?
21:14:38[Saint]I can't even think of any situation that would allow for the issue described.
21:14:52DextraWell I updated and put it to the lastest firmware revision
21:15:05[Saint]playback should _absolutely_ not be able to time or pitch shift all on its lonesome.
21:15:16DextraThe OFW ddoesn;t have the issue so I assumed that it was a firmware issue or maybe codec?
21:15:34DextraI said buffering since it seems to do it when I think the ram is filled and being refilled?
21:15:47DextraIs there any settings I can mess around with that might be able to fix it?
21:15:49[Saint]It may be that you have a particularly flakey device that doesn't like our clocking.
21:16:11DextraMy other clip zip has no such issues, so it may be that
21:16:23gevaertsDo you have this with more than one file, and/or more than one codec?
21:16:27[Saint]There is no userfacing settings that govern this. Clocks can't be adjusted from userspace other than forcing boost.
21:16:58Dextrathey'er all MP3s and yes more than one file
21:17:25Dextrawith a 128kb/s file it didnt do it at all but with a 320 it did, so I assumed it was buffering
21:17:41[Saint]The issue of access noise you describe is well known, and there's pretty much nothing we can do about that.
21:17:45DextraWith the 128kb/s file though the next song at the beginning started displaying those kinds of artificats
21:17:48[Saint]That actually /does/ happen in the OFW.
21:17:54[Saint]Though to a leser degree.
21:18:14[Saint]It's really evident in recordings.
21:18:30DextraI had no idea, I thought the clip was the perfect mp3 player, in terms of price, noise, etc
21:18:41[Saint]Cheap DAP is cheap.
21:19:19gevaertsThe issue is that the data and clock traces to the storage chip are sometimes a bit too close to the audio traces
21:19:27gevaertsAnd then you get interference
21:19:32bertrikthe clip zip is the DAP I use most
21:19:49DextraWould using a microSD migrate the issue?
21:20:12gevaertsActually, I'm not sure
21:20:17gevaertsIt might change things a bit
21:20:27gevaertsIf this is the problem you have, anyway
21:21:12[Saint]well, you couldn't avoid NAND lookups entirely.
21:22:05[Saint]at the very least you'd still get it with config file interaction.
21:22:32gevaertsYes, but that's not often
21:22:40[Saint]regarding sansas as a whole, I tend to see the Clip series as a line of disposable DAPs for gym bunny types.
21:22:41gevaertsIt all depends on where those traces are
21:23:07*gevaerts sees his gigabeat F as nearly disposable these days :)
21:23:13[Saint]Something you won't cry about if you smash it, or when it eventually gets so full of gym bunny back sweat that it ceases to function.
21:23:25gevaertsIt works well in my car, but the moment I take it out it starts misbehaving in all sorts of ways
21:23:31[Saint]Something you could leave at the bus stop and decide "ahhh, fuck it" with ease.
21:23:45gevaertsThis might have something to do with it falling apart when I look at it in a funny way
21:24:13 Part chrisb ("rcirc on GNU Emacs")
21:24:51Dextrayeah I love disposables like this
21:24:54[Saint]I think the last good DAP Sandisk made was the Fuze.
21:25:15[Saint]But that terrible wheel ruined it.
21:26:12[Saint]I myself, am an iPod man.
21:26:40DextraI still have a mini with 16GB CF card
21:26:43[Saint]Hate Apple with a passion, lose their HW though. Even if it is made from the tears of 7yo Chinese girls.
21:26:48Guest5962could I backup my clip zip bootloader part with raw dd in USB mode? and restore it after patch?
21:27:10[Saint]Guest5962: No.
21:27:19[Saint]Guest5962: why would you even want to?
21:28:11[Saint]Guest5962: what is it that you are trying to achieve?
21:31:02DextraIs there any plans to change the GUI of rockbox?
21:31:30DextraI am always confused by it, I dont know why automatic resume is in general instaed of playback for instnace
21:31:32Guest5962i have a hacked clip zip
21:32:08gevaertsAt the current rate of development, there aren't really any plans for anything I'd say
21:32:24Guest5962i want to build a new firmware and overwirte it and test
21:33:02[Saint]'hacked' in what way?
21:33:35[Saint]Guest5962: ?
21:33:41[Saint]Be specific.
21:34:01Guest5962but i need to restore the clip zip after try
21:34:39gevaertsGuest5962: just don't touch the bootloader and you'll most likely be fine
21:35:00[Saint]sounds like thats exactly what he wants to do, though.
21:35:28gevaertsIf you *do* touch the bootloader, make sure you have a spare player :)
21:35:42Guest5962yes, my boss hack the rockbox bootloader and add some encryption function
21:35:46[Saint]I guess on the outside it isn't obvious that rb makes VERY minimal and non-invasive changes.
21:36:07Dextragevaerts the 'cpu' sounds are gone but a bit of pitching is still occuring
21:36:51[Saint]perhaps you're just used to the OFW where the pitch is actually offset?
21:36:53Guest5962and he lock some useful functions XD
21:37:58gevaertsGuest5962: you could try the procedures on the unbrick wiki pages to dump the full firmware first, but everything there is *very* far from guaranteed
21:38:15[Saint]Guest5962: Unless your boss went overboard here, and I doubt it, there isn't any way he can prevent you, or anyone else, from just reinstalling Rockbox or the Sandick original firmware.
21:38:20[Saint]There's no magic here.
21:38:39[Saint]*ahem* disc
21:39:27[Saint]This leads me to ask the question, why did anyone think it was a good idea to encrypt a digital audio player?
21:40:30[Saint]the decryption key either has to be hilariously small, plainly sitting on the storage and accessible, or you have to painstakingly enter a decryption key...on a DAp. Of all things. :-/
21:40:57[Saint]It's like taking a big bag of bad ideas and shaking it up until crap falls out.
21:41:17 Quit Guest5962 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
21:41:25foolshnew crypto algo ^ right there people
21:42:24[Saint]I'm getting filled with idea of a virtual keyboard embedded in the bootloader and entering a decryption key by hand every boot.
21:42:29[Saint]The horros...the HORRORS!
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21:45:05foolshno! wait! people could whistle notes into the mic!
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21:46:49[Saint]tap it out using morse.
21:48:04[Saint]Honestly though, I'm more concerned with why, than how.
21:48:39gevaertsIf you don't have any hardware help, it's going to be very tricky
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21:52:08[Saint]You'd want it to sit in an encrypted container fulltime.
21:52:16[Saint]And, that would make things VERY difficult.
21:52:35[Saint]Otherwise there's a very obvious attack surface.
21:53:05[Saint]But even if it was sitting in an encrypted container, I'm not convinced that would be non-futile.
21:53:26[Saint]Any passphrase you could enter trivially with a DAP isn't going to withstand bruteforcing.
21:54:14[Saint]So I find the how a lot less interesting (knowing how flawed it is) than I do the why.
21:56:48gevaertsIf you have the encryption in dedicated hardware that never lets the key leak out, I think you have a chance
21:57:35DextraI am getting an erroir when I turn on the clip
21:57:42Dextraundefined instruction
21:58:07Dextrabt end
21:58:11[Saint]sadly that address is largely meaningless.
21:58:19[Saint]But admittedly you dn't know this.
21:58:36[Saint]that's only vaguely meaningful if you also have the mapfile.
21:58:37 Nick suYin`OFF is now known as suYin (
21:58:42[Saint]...which we don't ship.
21:58:47Dextrait happens when I boot sometimes
21:58:50[Saint](but should)
21:58:59Dextranow I just restarted and it works agian? its very odd
21:59:05DextraI think maybe the hardware is going bad
21:59:59DextraWhat iPod do you have? I might end up getting one at this point or dig out my iPod agian
22:00:13gevaertsWell, if you rebuild the same revision using the same toolchain, you normally get the same binary, so you can recreate the map file
22:00:17DextraAll the ipods I got were bought new, the clips I have are used or refurb
22:00:26[Saint]There's none I don't have.
22:00:51[Saint]Though a couple are in varying states now.
22:01:12Dextrawhat is the 'perfect' rockbox player?
22:01:32DextraI have a D2 with a cracked screen, but I never loved it like the clip
22:02:33gevaertsThat's *very* personal
22:03:30*gevaerts still likes his gigabeat :)
22:03:40DextraI heard iRiver was another good one
22:04:15gevaertsYes, but that generation (iriver, early ipods, gigabeats, ...) is fairly bulky by modern standards
22:04:34gevaertsIf you like a clip, you'll find those much too big and heavy
22:05:08[Saint]1G, 2G, 3G, 4g, Mini, Mini 2G, Color, Photo, 5G, 5.5G, 6G, Nano 1~7G, Touch 1~7G, Shuffle 2G, Shuffle 3G
22:05:16DextraI didnt mind an iPod mini, I don't know how to explain what makes an item lovable... rockbox was one of the factors
22:05:17[Saint]Ok...Mr. Pedantic.
22:05:21[Saint]*most* of them. ;)
22:05:24[Saint]gevaerts: ^
22:05:58gevaerts[Saint]: ok, that definitely *is* most of them :)
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22:06:45[Saint]"Best" is a very subjective thing I guess.
22:06:56[Saint]These days, my money goes on the iPod Classic line.
22:07:20[Saint]Expensive, yes. But incredibly well made, and near-flat output.
22:07:48DextraI think price has something else to do with it too... and its shrunk and well made
22:07:51[Saint]and a fairly easy path towards solid state conversion and a bigass battery cell.
22:07:52Dextrai dont think they make ipods anymore
22:08:00[Saint]They don't, right.
22:08:07[Saint]Which is why it sucks to be you now.
22:08:13[Saint]The prices skyrocketed.
22:08:20gevaertsThe market is audiophile or throwaway these days
22:08:24DextraI have a 5.5 g i think
22:08:35Dextrabut its broken
22:08:41[Saint]That's a damn fine player.
22:08:56[Saint]A bit of rolloff on the output, but, a fine player nonetheless.
22:09:01DextraI liked the 3rd gen I think?
22:09:07DextraIt felt more sturdy
22:09:16*gevaerts never really liked the wheels
22:09:32[Saint]You probably mean the 4G/Color/Photo
22:09:38Dextrano 3rd gen
22:09:45[Saint]Ipod 3G had those bloody terrible set of 4 buttons.
22:09:45Dextrano color
22:09:51Dextraoh 4th no color then
22:09:56DextraI thought it was 2nd gen
22:10:22[Saint]2G is even mor eterrible. :)
22:10:29[Saint]That wheel thing is gross.
22:10:41DextraOk damn, the sound artifacts are back
22:10:57DextraIs there a hardware mod for the Clip+ to shield it?
22:11:05[Saint]My guess is that this is some unit that just can't handle our clockrates.
22:11:07[Saint]And, no.
22:11:22[Saint]that would be some very deep surgery.
22:12:10DextraI was hoping it could be as easy as putting foil on top of some components
22:12:36gevaertsAs far as we know it's really the traces being too close together
22:12:37[Saint]Another side guess if you compare Rockbox with the OFW and have a perceptive ear is that Rockbox sounds pitch shifted to you because you're not used to what music normally sounds like?
22:12:49gevaertsSo the only "fix" would be to redesign the PCB
22:12:52[Saint]The OFW actually /is/ pitch shifted, not so slightly.
22:13:15DextraI don't think so, these sound like artifacts while its decoding
22:13:27gevaerts[Saint]: there was talk of another one that didn't show the issue
22:13:34Dextraand they happen after its played for a while
22:13:48*gevaerts might misremember
22:14:13Dextraa quick 128kb/s had no issue, but a 320kbs did at one point but rewinding it would make it have no such issue
22:14:50[Saint]The issue must be fairly prevalent if you can pick it out of the horrors of 128kbps LAME
22:15:07Dextrayeah it sounds like digital scraping
22:15:22[Saint]Yeah, but what does the issue sound like? ;)
22:15:25gevaertsDextra: you mentioned line out earlier
22:15:28[Saint](see what I did there?)
22:15:47gevaertsMaybe record it so we actually know what you mean
22:16:01gevaertsDistortions are really difficult to describe
22:17:10Dextraok lemme see where I can record it
22:26:46DextraI wasn't able to get a line out so its pretty prominient because evne though its through speakers and then a recorder you can still hear it
22:27:35Dextrait happens at 0:15 and you can hear how it changes the speed of the song as welll
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22:30:52Dextrapretty nasty sound isnt it?
22:31:15gevaertsWell yes, but that starts at 0:0 :)
22:31:22*gevaerts has a different taste in music!
22:31:31gevaertsStill, it does sound strange
22:31:52 Quit xorly (Quit: I quit, that is all)
22:31:54gevaertsDoes the song actually have these short repetitive bits in it, or are those part of the problem?
22:31:55DextraI just remembered this song did it right on schedule
22:32:03Dextrano its part of the problem
22:32:35gevaertsI have *no* idea what that is
22:33:16gevaertsI'd suspect codec issues, but if it doesn't *always* happen that sounds unlikely
22:33:24gevaertsI think...
22:33:30Dextrayou can hear how the speed is changing too right?
22:33:46gevaertsAll sorts of thing happen
22:33:53Dextrayeah its very glitchy
22:34:27gevaerts*except* the sort of stuttering you get from the decoding not being able to keep up, which is what I'd expect from buffering-related issues
22:35:02DextraI dont think there is 'anti-skip' on here unforunately
22:35:25DextraI was looking for it in the options but its removed in the clip
22:36:05gevaertsThat's because it shouldn't be needed on flash devices
22:36:35Dextrayeah i understand why its not there, i think if it was on here i could maybe fix it
22:37:29gevaertsAnd I don't think it would help here. If you hear the audio stop and then restart (quickly, hopefully) anti-skip might help (if it's because the disk responds slowly, anyway. If it's because decoding is too slow nothing helps)
22:38:05*gevaerts thinks saratoga should have a look at this
22:38:24Dextraah... I thought it would keep more of it in ram so it wouldn't skip as much
22:38:35gevaertsWell, yes and no
22:38:47gevaertsIt starts loading stuff from disk earlier
22:39:24gevaertsThe total amount of audio kept in ram is the same, it really just increases the safety margin
22:39:46Dextrabut it wouldn't matter becuase the codec would still stumble on it...
22:40:44Dextrahave any suggestions? I tried downgrading but I got that error code I got earlier when I went back to the last stable version, should I replace the codec perhaps?
22:40:54gevaertsThe actual issue anti-skip is trying to solve is that if you try to access a hard drive when it's being moved in ways it doesn't like, it can take a few seconds for it to respond
22:41:18gevaertsFlash doesn't care about being thrown around
22:41:44pixelmaCould trying the file in a sim help narrowing the issue down (as maybe there are other decoding errors?)
22:42:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:42:38DextraYou want me to upload the file or something?
22:43:09DextraOr would putting it in debug mode and showing the log on that help?
22:45:29gevaertsUploading it for *me* to have a look at wouldn't achieve much
22:46:22gevaertsI'd recommend filing a bug report so we can point saratoga (our main remaining codec person) to it. He might want to have a look at the actual file, but I don't know
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22:58:02Dextragevaerts is there a blank mp3 I can download to make it more listenable?
23:10:17 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 42.0/20151019161651])
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23:25:26Dextragevaerts you know if there are any other codecs I can try?
23:30:44Dextra seems like this may be related
23:30:53DextraIs there a way for me to edit my post?
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23:53:52DextraI noticed that the playback bar would go to the end when it skips, and then it goes back to where it was playing
23:54:12 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection)

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