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#rockbox log for 2015-11-21

00:04:46gartral[Saint]: exfat is a pain in the rear
00:05:17[Saint]It's pretty simple really. Implementing exFAT wouldn't be a huge pain in the arse.
00:05:26[Saint]...I just don't see any reason why anyone should.
00:05:33ZincAlloybecause SDXC cards would work out of the box.
00:06:40[Saint]I just think it'll open up a floodgate.
00:06:47[Saint]Some asshole will want NTFS next.
00:06:54[Saint]...then it begins.
00:12:24gartralntfs is HUGE to impliment... and there's NO reason for it!
00:14:38[Saint]Honestly the only reason I see exFAT ever happening is a side effect of that singular weird target that pamaury was working on that seems to use exFAT natively for some reason where dualboot gets all fucky on it and dualbooting means wiping out the FAT container for Rockbox each time.
00:15:06[Saint]That's the only reason I would see exFAT hitting mainline, honestly.
00:15:06pamauryit was the ZEN and it was not exFAT but a proprietary FS
00:15:23[Saint]Oh, my mistake. I thought it was exFAT, hmmm.
00:15:47pamauryI don't know how exFAT works, don't know how widespread it is, I don't even know if it's a huge change compared to regular FAT
00:16:53[Saint]It wouldn't be difficult to implement, it's not massive. There's some fairly simple implementations of exFAT floating around that could be pretty easily crammed into our tree.
00:17:08[Saint]It all just seems to hang on the balance of there being little to no reason to do so.
00:19:04lebelliumto watch 4GB videos through the MPEG player \o/
00:20:08[Franklin]most targets don't even have 4GB of internal storage
00:21:50 Nick suYin`OFF is now known as suYin (
00:22:37ZincAlloybut many targets have microsd slots. and microsdxc cards come formatted as exFAT
00:27:59[Franklin]out of curiosity, how did the wikipedia plugin manage huge files?
00:28:30[Saint]It doesn't, just like anything else in Rockbox.
00:28:46[Franklin]did it split them into multiple chunks?
00:28:58 Quit krnlyng (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
00:29:36*[Franklin] can't think of a reason you would /ever/ need to use 4GB+ files in rockbox then
00:30:01[Saint]continuous recording perhaps, but, even then, you could stitch the files manually.
00:30:07[Franklin]videos on small screens don't use that much disk space anyways
00:30:46[Franklin]~500M for a 2-hour movie perhaps
00:31:20[Franklin]any longer than that, and the battery's dead :P
00:31:24[Saint]yeah, I think we worked it out at one point, and those people mentioning videos, on a common "high res" 240x320 target, were thinking they were going to be watching a ~17h movie.
00:31:39[Saint]a few people pointed out video as a use case, but, sorry guys, nope.
00:32:05[Saint]I will NOT let you watch every episode of F.R.I.E.N.D.s ever, concatenated into a single file, sorry. I'm mean.
00:32:38 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0/20151116155110])
00:32:43[Saint]<hands on hips|mean face>
00:33:31ZincAlloywhy are you being so mean? what's up with you? noone told you life was gonna be this way? your job's a joke? you're broke? your love life's d.o.a.?
00:34:05 Nick [Franklin] is now known as [[Franklin] (~me@unaffiliated/franklin)
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00:34:43 Quit [Franklin] (Quit: ?f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n sftwr tstng.? ? Anonymous)
00:34:50[Saint]It's 1234 on a Saturday afternoon, and I'm 3-glasses-of-wine-drunk. I'm doin' OK. ;)
00:35:01[Saint]Denying people 4GB+ files is food for the soul.
00:36:00ZincAlloyI don't care about 4+GB files
00:36:34 Join [Franklin] [0] (~me@unaffiliated/franklin)
00:36:48ZincAlloybut it would be user friendly if people could simply take sdxc cards out of their phones and put them into their DAPs
00:37:29[Saint]My honest opinion is that if someone is going to be completely replacing their original firmware with a version they decided to modify with a tool from some guys on the infowebz, they can format an SDXC volume as FAT.
00:38:03[Saint]In a perfect world, and opinions differ on this, I actually think Rockbox should be capable of formatting the sdcard itself.
00:38:39 Join jtdesigns01 [0] (~quassel@2601:400:8000:2669:230:bdff:fe71:cebd)
00:38:48[Saint]Being able to reset/setup the devices own filesystem is a fairly handy feature for embedded devices like this.
00:39:36*gevaerts thinks that if someone implements a new potentially useful filesystem (this probably means exfat or possibly hfs) cleanly, with a proper abstraction layer and with a reasonable memory cost (ideally zero if compiled out), there isn't really a good reason to leave it out
00:40:10gevaertsI happen to think it's not very likely to happen, but who knows?
00:40:39 Quit girafe (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:40:40[Saint]IS there a decent license compatible HFS?
00:40:55gevaertsI have no idea
00:41:33gevaertslinux has hfs support I think?
00:41:35[Saint]Aha. I know I could do exFAT, but the sources I have are of questionable origin and would need to be reimplemented. But I believe there's leaner ones out there.
00:41:41gartralgevaerts: it does
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00:41:50[Saint]Oh. Hmmm.
00:42:51gartral[Saint]: I haven't looked at *how* it's implimented, but testdisk/photorec seems to have a solidly working implimentation
00:42:52gevaertsI'm not sure that's where the issue is though. Currently we support fat, and *only* fat. That has lead to various "nice" interdependencies that are going to be fun if you want to support multiple filesystems
00:45:48ZincAlloyis there any particular reason why progressive jpegs are not supoorted?
00:46:08gevaertsI don't think so
00:46:39*gevaerts thinks exfat will become irrelevant for rockbox fairly soon
00:46:42ZincAlloyhaving to resave every image just in case it's progressive is a bit annoying.
00:47:16gartralfrakly, i'm not worried about exfat.. from a user stand-point it seems illogical to try to put music that's not "" and improperly tagged unless you're exceptionly lazy.. from a development stand-point it's also stupid... just more, uneeded work
00:48:08*pamaury thinks everything will become irrelevant for rockbox fairly soon
00:48:35gevaertsThe thing is that as far as I can see most more or less recent stuff that does removable cards has a "sansa" label, and the build quality of those isn't *that* great
00:48:37 Quit Electricguy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:48:57gevaertsThe more solid players will last the longest :)
00:50:16ZincAlloyI retired my h340 two years ago. it was still working fine, but carrying that huge brick around with me for nearly a decade was more than enough
00:50:36ZincAlloyyay for happy meal toy players!
00:50:42gartralgevaerts: yea, my e250 is gone >.< or rather the wheel is... after my friend's austistic 2 year old got ahold of it >.<
00:50:51jtdesigns01well i would certainly like to be able to support a wikipedia dump in a single file.
00:51:08jtdesigns01but thats about the only good reason for exfat i can see
00:51:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:51:35gevaertsjtdesigns01: implement raw partition support in the wikipedia plugin! :)
00:51:46jtdesigns01um... no.
00:52:03*gartral hits gevaerts with a trout
00:52:15jtdesigns01waaaaaayyy too much work
00:53:15*gevaerts thinks the wikipedia plugin is even more of a smartphone victim than the rest of rockbox
00:53:25gartrali agree
00:54:09gartraland honestly, who doesn't have a pocket computer now-a-days?
00:54:09[Saint]I dunno. It was a victim of piss poor control over contributos.
00:54:20jtdesigns01smartphone victim?
00:54:25[Saint]It killed itself before smartphones did.
00:54:31gevaertsThat too
00:54:59gartraljtdesigns01: "phones can do it, why can't rockbox"
00:55:05[Saint]If the licensing wasn't an issue, it'd be in there, I posit.
00:55:12gevaertsjtdesigns01: more and more people have a data plan on their smartphone that's cheap enough to access wikipedia without having to go through lots of effort
00:55:18[Saint]and *then* smartphones could kill it!
00:55:44jtdesigns01well, i for one dont have a phone, so every thing i would do with a phone i have to implement in rockbox.
00:55:49gevaertsAnd to be fair, the soft keyboard on my smartphone is a *lot* better than the one in rockbox :)
00:56:05jtdesigns01OMG i feel ya there!
00:56:36[Saint]stabbing at the device with a broomhandle would yield better typing results than with the virtual keyboard.
00:56:46[Saint]its impossible to use.
00:57:01jtdesigns01it is a lesson in patience, thats for sure
00:57:04*gevaerts thinks carrying a backpack with an encyclopedia in it would be less effort than trying to look for things in wikipedia on rockbox with that keyboard regularly!
00:57:14gartral[Saint]: try doing it with a half-ass sansa wheel!
00:57:30[Saint]if I have to save anything in Rockbox, like a config or whatever, it generally ends up as AAAAAAA and saved without an extension.
00:57:37[Saint]then I fix it up over USB later.
00:57:53gartral[Saint]: lol
00:57:56jtdesigns01yep, same here unfortunately
00:58:05[Saint]I also really dislike the save mechanism.
00:58:26[Saint]it's really unintuitive. I forget how to actually save the file every same time.
00:58:34[Saint]so I always end up doing it 2 or three times.
00:58:38jtdesigns01wow really?
00:58:46[Saint]yeah. :-/
00:58:49jtdesigns01its pretty simple on the fuze+ touchapd
00:59:05[Saint]I find it really non-obvious, I use iPods, we have a distinct lack of buttons.
00:59:15gartrali've never had a problem with the save function, then again, I'm also *VERY* Patient
00:59:24[Saint]you need to go down onto the text input area, and push, I think, select?
00:59:27[Saint]fukken, play?
00:59:30[Saint]one of the two.
00:59:46[Saint]shits hard, yo.
00:59:47jtdesigns01play/pause to enter char, back for backspace, and hold center for enter
01:00:13jtdesigns01wow that rhymes.
01:00:17[Saint]yeah, but play changes function on the text input area.
01:00:23[Saint]it magically turns into save there iirc.
01:00:37jtdesigns01well i dont have to ever go there
01:00:45jtdesigns01why can you go there anyway?
01:00:59[Saint]to save...
01:01:13 Nick suYin is now known as suYin`OFF (
01:01:38jtdesigns01not me, guess the fuze+ isnt really as bad people say
01:01:49jtdesigns01at least its got enough buttons
01:01:59[Saint]well, the ipods only have, like, 5 buttons.
01:02:03[Saint]gotta get creative I guess.
01:02:38[Saint]yeah, I just tested it then, with the cursor on the input area play saves it.
01:02:52[Saint]I absolutely guarantee I'll forget that when I need to use it.
01:03:26gartral[Saint]: post-it on the back of the device?
01:04:14[Saint]backgrounds are for people who hate audiobuffer.
01:04:17gevaertsNo, that won't work
01:04:19jtdesigns01just make an animated help file for the background and youll be all set.
01:04:36gevaertsYou can't see the background properly while doing stuff
01:04:42gevaertsYou need an audioguide
01:05:08jtdesigns01i`ll narrate!
01:05:56jtdesigns01or even better, record google translate previewing it with a microphone held next to your speaker at mp3 50 kbps!!!!
01:06:56[Saint]my config is very simple. there's no backdrop (which I couldn't see in vkeyboard anyway even if there were), I use sysfont and the default (non-cabbie) icons. I use the fallback wps/sbs. No database, no dircache, the only things on the main menu are 'Files; Resume Playback; Settings'.
01:07:00*[Saint] is a simple man.
01:08:35[Saint]I'm getting old and blind though, so I'm going to have to start using a larger font soon I think.
01:27:26[Franklin]Mr. Someone could always reimplement the wikipedia plugin
01:31:36[Franklin]or at least the questionable portions of it
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21:46:56gartrali need toask someone who's from germany a question in the community room >.>
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21:48:32saratogaexfat would be nice to have for SDXC cards at least
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