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#rockbox log for 2015-12-05

00:00:22[Saint]Yeah, OK. It's just kinda weird, and you're shooting yourself in the foot. Because literally no other devices come close to it.
00:00:25[Saint]In many regards.
00:00:32ZincAlloyI'd never buy their music players, but I like their computers a lot.
00:00:46[Saint]The choices are, essentially, iPod, or cheap disposable SanDisk shit.
00:01:07thume.g. there are also people i prefer over others, so i choose not to talk to the people i like less
00:01:46[Saint]I don't believe that trait is specific to you dear.
00:01:57[Saint]I'm pretty confident that's a human element. :)
00:02:22 Quit krnlyng (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:03:06thumi was making clear why i prefer not to buy from apple, so yes, it's an human element :)
00:03:36[Saint]In all fairness, SanDisk is a shithole company too.
00:03:46[Saint]They're no better than Apple.
00:03:52[Saint]Like, at all.
00:03:54thumthey're all crap, some are crappier than others though
00:04:15ZincAlloyboth have been pretty helpful when I had problems in the past
00:05:47thumthe one sold on thinkpenguin is a sansa clip zip, isn't it?
00:07:49ZincAlloylooks like one, yeah
00:08:19ZincAlloyquite expensive. when I bought my refurbished one it was 30€
00:08:20thumit looks pretty neat
00:08:52ZincAlloyit does feel like a happy meal toy
00:09:26thumbasically because it's light?
00:09:38[Saint]light, and shittily made.
00:09:55[Saint]plastic shell is all creaky.
00:10:16ZincAlloythat might just be the clip
00:10:22ZincAlloywhich I find really useful
00:10:23[Saint]odd gap spaces in the screen alignment in most cases I have ever laid eyes on.
00:10:47ZincAlloywell, that would be a font problem
00:11:28[Saint]No no, I mean, in almost every one I have ever laid eyes on the screen itself is either skewed to the left or right, or on a slight angle.
00:11:54ZincAlloyI must have gotten a good one then
00:12:07ZincAlloyand the quality of the screen is bad.
00:12:09ZincAlloyreally bad
00:12:27[Saint]yeah, it's pretty much impossible to see them in full sun.
00:12:48ZincAlloyand it makes some gradients look super awful
00:13:04[Saint]ah, yeah. right.
00:13:09thumi'll check out a smaller and a bigger sandisk player during the next days... and buy some glue with the order ;)
00:13:27 Join alexweissman [0] (
00:13:43alexweissmanoh man, the Sandisk
00:13:44ZincAlloyI haven't managed to really break mine yet, even though it's had a hard life
00:14:38ZincAlloywe should convince that agptek to make us a quality clip zip with a bigger screen. :D
00:14:45ZincAlloyagptek guy, sorry :)
00:15:08alexweissmanfo real.
00:15:09[Saint]I feel like that's a really slow train wreck and I'm watching it happen.
00:15:30[Saint]I feel bad for that guy and the inevitable resultant massive failure.
00:15:39alexweissmanit needs to happen, though
00:15:51[Saint]he needs to be bitterly disappointed?
00:15:52thumwhat would be the alternative if sandisk and apple would not be in the equation any longer?
00:16:01alexweissmanI can't believe that I'm the only guy in the world who wants a usable mp3 player small enough to velcro on to my headphones
00:16:02 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: "It's now safe to turn off your computer.")
00:16:35[Saint]thum: iriver, most likely.
00:16:44[Saint]good luck digging them up, though.
00:16:50thumhm okay
00:16:58alexweissmanliterally every day, I see people with their phones/players flying out of their pockets because their headphone cables got yanked
00:17:06ZincAlloyI haven't seen any iriver players here in ages
00:17:18*[Saint] nods
00:17:24[Saint]Rare indeed.
00:17:46 Join krnlyng [0] (
00:18:03[Saint]Hide under lebellium's bad and steal his shit when he's not looking.
00:18:08ZincAlloylast thing I've read about was some audiophile player?
00:18:34alexweissman@Saint I meant...there needs to be a suitable piece of hardware that can evolve together with Rockbox in the long term
00:19:44lebelliumI see too many iRiver players. That's the problem when you drink some beers with people liking audiophile bricks.
00:19:54lebelliumI mean "AK" iRivers
00:20:07lebelliumnot the TRUE ones (Hxxx :P )
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00:21:28ZincAlloyI'm glad I'm not carrying around a huge brick anymore
00:29:56alexweissmanwell anyway, can someone help me try to resolve this playlist issue?
00:30:24alexweissmanthey were working fine before, then I must have changed some settings or something when I reinstalled
00:31:38[Saint]so - reset your config.
00:32:04alexweissmanwell, the default config I think is the problem
00:32:19alexweissmanI have my old config backed up, but I don't see any settings in there that would make a difference
00:32:43[Saint]what is 'this playlist issue' to be precise?
00:32:55[Saint]I assure you the default config we ship with is absolutely fine.
00:33:56alexweissmanwell I believe you, but I have a particular setup that worked before, that doesn't seem to work now
00:34:40[Saint]the 'issue' you describe is entirely expected behavior.
00:35:33alexweissmanwhat do you mean?
00:36:22[Saint]saratoga already answered this, and stated that it is totally expected:
00:36:24[Saint]"There is no setting to do that. The default behavior is that if you give the player an ambiguous path like I:\, it assumes that you are referring to the same disk as you saved the playlist on. If you saved the playlist to a different disk than the one you want to access, you'll have to explicitly put that into the playlist file. "
00:36:43alexweissmanbut the playlist *is* on the same disk as the files
00:36:53alexweissmanthey're both on the external card
00:37:34alexweissmanassuming we both have the same definition of "disk" in mind
00:38:13 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.)
00:39:17alexweissmanthe playlist file is in /<microSD1>/Playlists/, and the mp3s are in /<microSD1>/Music/
00:40:58[Saint]and barring the prefixes, the relative paths are identical on the playlist and the directory structure?
00:41:45alexweissmanthey were generated by MediaMonkey, so they should be. I can double check one of the file names manually
00:42:01alexweissmanI even tried renaming MUSIC -> Music, in case case was an issue
00:42:15alexweissmanbut FAT32 is supposed to be case-insensitive
00:45:09alexweissmanyup, they match playlist uses backslash as directory separator
00:45:46[Saint]at least some part of the paths must match. it'll try stripping back paths until it either gets a hit or doesn't. In other words you can have like /media/foo/bar/baz/Music/track.track and /Music/track.track...I...hmmm.
00:47:15[Saint]This is...odd. Honestly, I don't use playlists exported from other devices on Rockbox. I don't use playlisting full stop, besides the fact that all playback is inherently playlist based behind the scenes.
00:47:43[Saint]On the occsasions I have exported playlists, however, I have never had an issue with the stripiing of relative paths.
00:47:50alexweissmanyeah. The thing is, it's a lot easier to build my playlists on a full-fledged computer, then transfer them over
00:48:11alexweissmanshould I try reverting to the 2013 Rockbox release?
00:48:54[Saint]You can try. I not convinced it'll tell us anything interesting though.
00:49:11alexweissmanyeah. Is there no way to get debug information?
00:49:33alexweissmanoccasionally, I'll see a flash of something like <root> when I try to play my playlist
00:49:55[Saint]that would suggest it is failing to find a match on relative paths.
00:50:07[Saint]and you're seeing the ass end of that.
00:50:29alexweissmancould it be an encoding issue?
00:50:39[Saint]stripping back path sections til it gets to root and goes "fuck it, nope, can't find it buddy" and bails out.
00:51:00[Saint]I was going to suggest that, yes. There's an offchance it's some encoding fuckup.
00:51:19alexweissmanaccording to Notepad++, it's encoding as UTF-8
00:52:17[Saint]have you tried setting the default codepage to UTF-8 in Rockbox? Though, honestly, this shouldn't be problematic by my understanding.
00:52:26alexweissmanbut I don't think it's a problem with the playlist file itself, because they worked just fine before
00:52:45alexweissmanlet's try that.
00:53:07alexweissmanis there a config.cfg setting I can use for that?
00:54:16[Saint]Settings - General Settings - Display - Default Codepage
00:54:38[Saint]we default to 8859-1 iirc.
00:54:46[Saint](Latin1 ISO)
00:55:47alexweissmanalright, changed it but still no luck
00:56:12alexweissmanI wonder if for some reason, it's trying to look in the built-in memory
00:56:26alexweissmanlet's see what happens if I mirror the mp3s on the built-in memory
00:58:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:59:16alexweissmanso, it works if I put the mp3s on the built-in memory, even with the playlist still on the card
00:59:33alexweissmanit seems like it's basically always looking in the built-in memory
00:59:54alexweissmando you have a Clip+?
01:00:24alexweissmanI should send you one as a donation
01:00:30soap_alexweissman, BT headphones. Small MP3 players are dead.
01:00:50alexweissmanscrew BT
01:00:50[Saint]soap_: the above is interesting.
01:00:59[Saint]soap_: can you confirm this locally?
01:01:06 Nick soap_ is now known as soap (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
01:01:11soapconfirm what?
01:01:36[Saint]apparently playlists are skipping external storage.
01:01:36soapI only know the hotel gyms and multi-use trails I use.
01:01:48soapI can't confirm that.
01:02:03[Saint]I'd be somewhat willing to bet it could be traced back to when JhMikes reworked the filesystem
01:02:34alexweissmando you know which build that started with?
01:02:42alexweissmanI can try reverting to a build before that one
01:03:26alexweissmansoap besides, with BT headphones that's twice as many devices I have to keep charged ;-)
01:04:17[Saint];a=commit;h=7d1a47c is the commit I would put money on causing this off the top of my head.
01:05:04[Saint]"4) Relative path components are supported and the namespace is unified. It does not support full relative paths to an implied current directory; what is does support is use of "." and "..". Adding the former would not be very difficult. The namespace is unified in the sense that volumes may be specified several times along with relative parts, e.g.:
01:05:04[Saint]"/<0>/foo/../../<1>/bar" :<=> "/<1>/bar". "
01:05:22[Saint]...why did we ever accept this?
01:06:32 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0/20151201152349])
01:06:38[Saint]it also removed dircache in RAM, which is bloody annoying. As it's nowhere near fast enough on disk based targets.
01:06:41alexweissmanis there a way I can go farther back in the daily build history?
01:07:41alexweissmanalright erm, lemme see if I can build it myself then
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01:09:02alexweissmanwhat's the clone URL for rockbox?
01:12:59alexweissmanwhere's the actual commit date for that commit? is that 29 Aug 2014?
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01:15:33 Quit ungali (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:16:31alexweissmanalright, I'll try to compile at 95a4c3afcd53a1f8b835dec33de51f9c304de4d9
01:21:48[Saint]soap: slight clarification - is that because you don't use playlists, don't export playlists from another host (ie. generate playlists in Rockbox exclusively), or just legitimately haven't seen this issue?
01:22:28[Saint]I don't currently have any assembled and functional devices with removable storage myself.
01:22:34[Saint]though I could in a pinch I guess.
01:25:33alexweissmanalright well, I've got the auto-build script going
01:25:41alexweissmanit's umm...quite chatty ;-)
01:25:52[Saint]you're just building arm-eabi, right?
01:26:00*[Saint] nods
01:26:26alexweissmanlooked like it was updating gcc for a minute...
01:26:50[Saint]technically speaking, it is.
01:27:59alexweissmandamn this is long
01:28:36alexweissmanis it bruteforce checking if P = NP along the way?
01:29:57[Saint]there you go, all toolchain binaries, packaged.
01:30:18*[Saint] hopes this is a 64bit *nix distribution
01:30:35alexweissmanoooh, it just finished! ...with an error :(
01:30:56alexweissmanchecking for suffix of object files... configure: error: in `/tmp/rbdev-build/build-gcc/arm-elf-eabi/libgcc':
01:30:56alexweissmanconfigure: error: cannot compute suffix of object files: cannot compile
01:30:56alexweissmanSee `config.log' for more details.
01:31:15alexweissmanlemme check out that log
01:31:36[Saint]I posted binaries above for all our toolchains.
01:32:12alexweissmanah ok, thanks. so just install that and then retry the build?
01:33:14[Saint]just make sure it's in your $PATH, in debian-esque distros you could just dump it into ~/bin
01:33:32alexweissmanI'm on OSX so
01:33:46alexweissmanno worries
01:34:23alexweissmanI'll put it in /usr/bin
01:34:28[Saint]Yeah, sorry. I know nothing of OSX in this regard.
01:34:31alexweissman(which is in my $PATH)
01:34:46[Franklin]hmm... maybe /usr/local/bin is a better idea
01:35:33[Saint]I would be very surprised if toolchains generated on a 'proper' linux system will work out of the box on OSX.
01:36:06alexweissmanalright one of yall want to build it for me?
01:37:34alexweissmanI don't think that download link you sent me worked quite right, anyway
01:38:09alexweissmanit tried to trick me into installing a bunch of bloatware, then I opened the package and there was nothing of interest in it
01:38:53[Saint]you probably get 'social engineered' by an ad.
01:39:10alexweissmanthat's what I thought, but I don't see any alternative download buttons
01:40:00[Saint]works as expected here
01:41:14alexweissmanthe gray download button just gets me to download a 1.7MB dmg file
01:41:47alexweissman(dark gray)
01:42:00[Saint]Ok, so, what am I building for?
01:42:20[Saint]ah, Clip+
01:42:25alexweissmanyes please
01:52:24[Saint]check PM.
01:54:28alexweissmanalright, lemme try
01:56:54alexweissmanis there a way to use the Rockbox Utility to install a custom build? or should I just unzip and overwrite the .rockbox dir?
01:57:39[Saint]No idea. I've used RbUtil about 3 times in my life, about ~5 years ago.
01:57:59[Saint]I always just extract to / of $device and overwrite.
02:00:20[Saint]Interesting. I had a feeling I'd know which one this was.
02:00:53alexweissmanI think I know the feeling...I get that a lot with my own open-source project
02:01:33alexweissmanthanks for the help and confirming that I'm not crazy.
02:01:39alexweissmanis there a way to open a bug report?
02:02:13[Saint]It looks like this functionality /should/ work (detecting relative paths), but it looks like it has to use . and .. to refer to toplevel directories, which somewhat defeats the purpose of this "Just Work"ing with playlists exported from another host.
02:02:23[Saint]Since, playlist, like...ever...does that.
02:02:38[Saint]I'm actually pretty bloody tempted to rip that entire commit out.
02:02:50[Saint]It was contention to begin with, and rushed, and far too aggressive.
02:03:03alexweissmanhopefully nothing more recent depends on it, though...
02:03:31[Saint]it was kinda like "Hey guys, haven't seen any of you in months, oh, by the way, I completely rewrote the filesystem and touched several hundred files and I'm committing it now...K...bye"
02:03:39[Saint]and then he vanished again.
02:03:47alexweissmanoh yeah, my project has a guy like that
02:03:58alexweissmanI reject his pull requests.
02:10:07 Quit krnlyng (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
02:17:25alexweissmanok, time to return this Jam and buy a backup Clip+ I just saw on the classifieds
02:19:50alexweissmanfriggin absurd..."The Clip Sport/Jam only supports M3U playlists and they must be stored in the same directory as the files in the playlist."
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03:09:18alexweissmanwhoa, gPodder playlists are working too now
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22:25:56saratoga[Saint]: I think that change to the playlist parsing was probably just an oversight
22:26:01saratogashould be easy to fix though
22:27:00[Saint]saratoga: honestly, I am very tempted to just rip that fucker right out. But it goes soooooooooooooooo deep.
22:27:13[Saint]I never liked the idea and the extreme lack of testing it got anyway.
22:27:33[Saint]and it nuked cache in RAM, which is pretty bloody important for disk based targets.
22:28:01saratogayeah i think mike and i were the only ones testing it
22:28:43[Saint]Primarily, there was no obvious reason to do such a massive change.
22:28:53[Saint]ANd it's so fucking vast it can't really be audited.
22:29:04saratogado you have the build tools handy? I think you just need to add this commit back (ignore the last change at the end of the diff):;a=commitdiff;h=b30edcd62f2e16525bc9c6fe0b52769ae30b0dc8
22:29:16[Saint]I do, I'll have a nosey.
22:30:33[Saint]"Unfortunately, this breaks the playlist_save logic if the CWD is on an external
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