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#rockbox log for 2016-01-17

00:05:28pamauryedhelas: all the hardware specific code is in firmware/
00:05:50pamaurythen in target/<soc>/<device> you usually have device specific code
00:06:02pamauryand in drivers/ you can generic (or semi-generic drivers).
00:06:31Link7can you help me out?
00:06:53pamauryunfortunately I don't really know anything about the ipod but on some ipods we support the ipod accessory protocol
00:07:46pamauryLink7: I don't know, what do you want to achieve. For iPod I think TheSeven is clearly more qualified than me
00:08:19[Saint]he's been managing to fuck up getting admin level privs on a Mac for days.
00:08:34[Saint]I've pretty much bowed out of this hot mess.
00:08:36Link7yo [Saint]
00:08:41[Saint]see above.
00:08:43edhelaspamaury, thank you, I'll search in there
00:08:50Link7i plugged it on my windows pc
00:08:56Link7and used rockbox utility
00:09:00Link7it was done
00:09:04Link7but i couldnt eject it
00:09:09Link7now it says PANIC
00:09:10Link7on the ipod
00:09:18Link7ata -11
00:09:20[Saint]reset it.
00:09:35[Saint]same as every other ipod we support.
00:09:51edhelaspamaury, yes but I don't think that the "old jack remote connector" has something to do with IAP
00:10:22pamauryedhelas: I'm sorry, I don't know, I never had an ipod ^^
00:10:49pamauryoh I see, you mean volume controls on the headphones ?
00:10:55Link7the apple fw shows up! Saint
00:11:09edhelaspamaury, this :)
00:11:32edhelasI'm talking about the little connector next to the jack
00:11:51pamauryoh I see, I have no idea how that works, I'm very sorry
00:12:20edhelasand it seems that it was kinda supported in iPodLinux
00:12:54Link7[Saint] do you know why htis is
00:12:58Link7why this is
00:13:20[Saint]It would appear you managed to toggle the hold switch.
00:13:29[Saint]Reset it again, menu+Select
00:14:18Link7is it dual boot or something?
00:14:38Link7still the same
00:14:45Link7didnt know that, never had dual boot
00:14:46edhelaspamaury, I'm a web developper, so going to something low level like this it's a huge step :) but I'm curios
00:14:57Link7so menu + select and toggle hold switch
00:15:11Link7why dual boot it should just go to rockbox
00:17:10[Saint]It does by default.
00:17:14Link7still nothing [Saint]
00:17:19Link7how can i turn that off
00:17:26[Saint]As usual the behavior you describe makes absolutely no sense.
00:17:29Link7and i want to delete the music thats on it
00:17:38Link7hopefully i can do that when rockbox is working
00:17:45Link7i reset it
00:17:49Link7and the apple fw keeps coming
00:17:53Link7no rockbox
00:18:17[Saint]There's absolutely no way this can possibly happen with Rockbox installed, but you quoted an error that was quite obviously from our bootloader.
00:18:23[Saint]I have no idea what the fuck you've done.
00:20:55[Saint]The behavior suggests the Rockbox bootloader isn't installed, but that doesn't gel with you quoting an error that came from Rockbox.
00:21:16Link7youre right
00:21:20Link7the bootloader wasnt clicked
00:21:29Link7should i install the bootloader?
00:22:50[Saint]So, you installed the bootloader - and then removed it again at some point? There's no way you could have seen the error you described without the bootloader installed.
00:22:54[Saint]That's my entire point.
00:23:29[Saint]But conversely there's no way it will continuously boot the the Apple FW with the bootloader installed.
00:23:35[Saint]So one of these things is non-true.
00:24:16Link7im not sure what happened then
00:24:24Link7i used the rockbox utility
00:24:29Link7then i couldnt eject it
00:24:34Link7so i just unplugged it
00:24:37[Saint]I very highly suggest you start again, restore the iPod using iTunes, take your time, read our manual, and go slowly through the process.
00:24:39Link7then it gave me that error i said
00:24:59Link7the manuel isnt clear
00:25:18Link7should i restore the ipod
00:25:33Link7then just use rockbox utility again?
00:26:21Link7oh shit
00:26:27Link7rockbox is on it
00:26:29Link7i resetted it
00:26:42Link7getting weird error
00:32:53Link7look [Saint]
00:34:11[Saint]I feel like you're trolling me.
00:34:20[Saint]That's our IO debug screen.
00:34:31[Saint]It's not an error. And there's no way Rockbox booted to this.
00:35:48 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
00:36:33Link7you think im making this shit up?
00:36:35Link7lol man
00:36:41Link7im trying to get rockbox on this damn thing man
00:36:58[Saint]That _is_ Rockbox.
00:36:59Link7you're hilarious bro
00:37:11Link7why isnt it going into the normal rockbox menu
00:37:13Link7i never seen that shit
00:37:30edhelascalm down
00:37:52[Saint]Specifically, that is System - Debug (keep out!) - View I/O Ports
00:38:10[Saint]There's no path for Rockbox to just "accidentally" present this screen.
00:38:20Link7well it did
00:38:27Link7so your rockbox aint working right
00:38:31Link7what do i do now
00:38:32[Saint]Cool story.
00:38:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:38:52Link7i described what i did and i got this
00:38:59Link7what do i do now
00:39:04Link7and i dont have time for trolling
00:39:10Link7so could you please tell me
00:39:13TheSeven[Saint]: I have no idea how dualboot works - but how does that behave if it fails to load rockbox.ipod? I don't think it has the LCD initialized at that time - it would likely just fall back to the apple bootloader?
00:39:35[Saint]TheSeven: it just says "failed to load rockbox.ipod, plug USB and fix it"
00:39:44TheSevenor is this a sansa-like stub + fully featured bootloader + rockbox.ipod setup
00:39:48TheSevenah, so apparently the latter
00:39:52*[Saint] nods
00:40:04[Saint]There's no obvious path for the described behavior
00:40:22[Saint]I feel like this is a boredom excercism in advanced trolling at this point.
00:40:37TheSeveneither that, or some kind of clickwheel malfunction doing random stuff
00:40:39[Saint]*exercise - lol
00:41:02[Saint]clickwheen fucking up wouldn't account for the dualboot madness.
00:41:06[Saint]I considered that.
00:41:19TheSevenwell, hold switch?
00:41:33[Saint]clickwheel *and* hold, probably...but then it would be very obviously non-functional.
00:41:46Link7ok this is all very fun (not)
00:41:50TheSevenit's a very remote possibility - but a flaky hold switch could randomly cut power to the CWC in the middle of data transfers
00:41:52Link7could you tell how i could just get rockbox
00:41:54Strife89Maybe along with some *very* strange RAM corruption.
00:41:56Link7without shitty dualbox
00:42:02Link7dont want apple fw at all on the ipod
00:43:05Strife89Just for funsies, I removed /.rockbox/rockbox.ipod on my iPod Mini. I got exactly what [Saint] described.
00:43:25TheSevenwell, ipod mini is a whole different story again
00:43:34TheSevencompletely different boot process
00:43:58[Saint]FWIW, I'm not saying there's no issue here, there's obviously some form of issue, I'm simply saying the described behavior makes absolutely zero sense.
00:44:04TheSeventhe new ipod6g bootloader seems to work more similar to the sansas than anything else
00:44:24[Saint]this is 5.5G, FWIW.
00:44:50*[Saint] nods
00:44:58TheSevenI implied 6g because I was pinged ;)
00:45:09[Saint]Fair enough.
00:45:39Link7ok so what do i do now?
00:45:48*TheSeven goes back to messing with shitty userspace SPI on linux
00:46:00Link7TheSeven or [Saint]
00:46:06Link7restore or something?
00:46:10[Saint]I'm looking at the code now, and I swear there's no obvious or logical path to debug IO being presented as an error or as anything other than a manual action.
00:46:25Link7the ipod is getting hot as hell
00:46:37[Saint]it would be difficult to get there even accidentally.
00:46:40[Saint]let alone repeatedly.
00:46:52Link7*PANIC* ata: -11
00:47:18Link7pc: 03E80662
00:47:23Link7sp: something
00:47:24Link7it says
00:47:28Link7bt end
00:47:37Link7the ipod been on for a while now
00:47:40Link7do i just restore it?
00:47:42TheSeven[Saint]: IIRC that ata error screen goes to the GPIO debug screen if you press select
00:47:46TheSevenso that's not too hard to do by accident
00:48:07Link7this ipod is hot as shit
00:48:13Link7it needs to go off
00:48:15 Quit ender` (Quit: Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain)
00:48:39Link7ok so what do i do theSeven
00:48:39TheSevenLink7: if you don't care about the data on it (if any), restoring might be worth a try, just to see if that works (to rule out HW issues)
00:48:47Link7ok cool
00:48:51Link7just restore
00:48:58Link7and then use rockboxutility again?
00:49:01TheSevenand it should probably fix any file system issues by just overwriting everything that was there before
00:49:17Link7can i just straight boot into rockbox? instead of dual
00:49:19TheSeventhere might be quicker ways to fix this, but they're harder to explain, so I guess you better just go with that for now
00:49:39Link7Ata error: -11
00:49:46Link7press ON to debug
00:49:48Link7it says
00:50:15Link7does it mean anything
00:50:21TheSevenafter RB bootloader installation it should only boot the apple firmware if you flick the hold switch or keep pressing a button after powering it on
00:50:53Link7but the point is to have RB on it so why does it boot the apple fw
00:51:07[Saint]it doesn't ever do this by default.
00:51:12Strife89If the iPod is getting "hot as shit" then I have to wonder if something is short-circuiting.
00:51:20Link7ok gonna restore
00:51:21TheSeventhere are some features that rockbox doesn't fully support, such as some docks, so some users might want to use both
00:51:23[Saint]it will always boot Rockbox by default, always.
00:52:00TheSevenStrife89: I wouldn't expect it to stay on at all then, let alone for extended periods of time. this is probably just normal CPU+HDD heat
00:52:07[Saint]Strife89: yes and no - to a human "hot as shit" for electronics is around ~40C
00:52:18[Saint]which to embedded devices is nothing to worry about at all.
00:52:35TheSevenwell, I wouldn't want the HDD and battery to be exposed to that all day
00:52:50[Saint]its well within operating range.
00:53:05TheSevenlook at battery life expectancy vs. temperature
00:53:25TheSevenso I wouldn't ever design that thing to be at 50°C internally or something all the time
00:53:50TheSevenbut yeah, for a short period of time it won't cause trouble
00:54:18marazI very distinctly remember being able to accidentally boot OF by having the hold switch on when connecting USB on nano1g. this may or may not be relevant.
00:55:05[Saint]yeah - that's definitely a thing for the non-Classic 6G ipods.
00:55:19[Saint]IIUC the Classic is the only one that won't boot when powered.
00:55:52Link7i think the battery got so hot because the ipod was on for hours
00:55:56Link7with that code on it
00:56:06Link7i was waiting on what to do
00:56:12Link7got it plugged into the pc now
00:56:15edhelasok found some interesting stuff, now I'm wondering if I can catch the events using what's coming from GPIOA_INPUT_VAL
00:56:19Link7it says battery is low please wait
00:58:42edhelasoh looks like there's a debug mode in debug-pp.c
00:59:25[Saint]edhelas: probably relates to the debug screen, you can watch events from there.
01:00:00[Saint]System - Debug - View I/O Ports
01:00:22edhelasyeah got this screen but it's static
01:00:31edhelasthe values should change if I push buttons ?
01:01:25Link7so is there any way i can boot straight into rockbox?
01:01:28[Saint]select should at least register a visible change.
01:01:32Link7instead of dual boot
01:01:57[Saint]For the last time it does this by default.
01:02:06Link7ok sorry man
01:02:14Link7charging it now
01:02:18Link7so i can plug it in
01:02:20[Saint]It will always boot into Rockbox by default, always.
01:02:57[Saint]unless hold is toggled during boot or a key is deliberately held.
01:02:58edhelas[Saint], doesn't seems to change something on my iPod Mini 2G, I'll try to understand why
01:03:21Link7if i reboot it it keeps going into that black screen
01:03:53[Saint]it sounds like you're just holding the reboot key combo too long.
01:04:51 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 44.0/20160114165817])
01:04:53edhelasoh yes, something has changed
01:05:12[Saint]edhelas: hold should definitely trigger a response.
01:05:19[Saint]ah, too late, I see.
01:05:35edhelasyes I got something on the iPod 4G
01:06:03edhelasnot on the Mini 2G (sorry the hold button is not working on this Mini)
01:06:48edhelasselect is actually changing somthing on the mini
01:06:59edhelasA: 29 -> 69
01:07:19 Quit girafe (Quit: Leaving)
01:08:08edhelaslooks like I don't have everything on this screen
01:08:11 Quit krnlyng (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
01:09:06Link7this fucking ipod has come static
01:09:19Link7its not gonna explode on me or some crazy shit is it
01:09:41saratogaanyone mind this tiny bit of extra bloat on the debug screen for devices with frequency scaling?
01:09:44Link7never got shocked by an ipod before lol
01:10:02saratogabesides being a lot easier to read, it also actually fits on devices like the Clip+ that have a small screen
01:11:31[Saint]saratoga: go for it - cpufreq has a tonne of room spare.
01:12:16[Saint]we only use 2 lines there, no?
01:12:32saratogayeah, and just a bit of extra RAM :)
01:12:53edhelas[Saint], it's the only place where I can see what's coming from GPIO in Rockbox ?
01:13:13[Saint]I believe so.
01:13:59edhelashmmm ok
01:17:15 Quit petur (Remote host closed the connection)
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01:21:22edhelasthanks for your help, I'll try to dig more, I'm convinced that it's possible to catch it somehow, the guys from iPodLinux had the remote support
01:21:48[Saint]our bootloader can boot IPL. :)
01:21:54[Saint]problem solved? :p
01:23:29edhelasahah nope :D
01:26:13edhelaswell time to go to bed, will continue tomorrow ! it's hard to go back to C after all theses years
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01:39:36 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
01:39:59saratogaanyone have a ClipV2 that can test a frequency scaling build?
01:40:09saratogaworks great for me, curious if any one else has problems though
01:40:20saratogafixes button delays to not break when the CPU frequency changes
02:21:32Link7man this ipod is doing the same again
02:21:38Link7i restored it
02:21:54Link7put rockbox on it with rockbox utility
02:21:59Link7now i get the same screen pff
02:23:11Link7this blows
02:25:08Link7TheSeven why is this
02:25:20TheSevenno idea, I've never had a <6g ipod
02:31:18Link7its a 5g ipod
02:33:07 Quit Bray90820 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
02:38:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:43:54Link7man this is crazy TheSeven
02:44:11Link7ipod is low on battery so trying to charge it now
02:44:16Link7kept rebooting it
02:44:24Link7i saw the rockbox menu and i accesed it
02:44:27Link7for 2 seconds
02:44:38Link7then it dropped again and got the weird screen
02:45:26Link7getting press on to debug again
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13:21:05edhelashi everyone :)
13:44:00pamauryhi, did you solve your problem yesterday ?
13:53:06edhelasI've learn a bit more how the buttons are handled in rockbox, but I still don't have thoses for the remote
13:54:22edhelasI really think that the I/O ports debug window is not complete
13:55:07edhelaswhen I see everything that is defined in pp5020.h and what's displayed in debug-pp.c
13:58:09 Join Link8 [0] (
13:59:51Link8anyone here
14:00:02alexbobpmaybe a little!
14:00:23Link8still messing with this ipod
14:01:02 Quit thum (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
14:01:17alexbobpwell you came to the right place, rockbox makes ipods worth having!
14:01:29Link8can you help
14:01:39Link8i know
14:01:42Link8i have a 5gen now
14:01:44alexbobpnot really. you haven't stated a problem
14:01:58Link8ATA error
14:02:07alexbobpoh that doesn't sound good
14:02:08Link8GPIO ENBABLE
14:02:12alexbobpthat might mean the hard drive's failing
14:02:13Link8keep getting that screen
14:02:16Link8trying to restore again
14:02:19alexbobpbut I'm not very expert
14:02:22Link8but it keeps going back to that
14:02:30Link8no its new
14:02:30alexbobpyou probably want to see if one of the devs who's worked on rockbox wakes up
14:02:34alexbobpoh huh
14:02:38alexbobpany issues in the stock firmware?
14:02:47 Join thum [0] (
14:03:13Link8ok ill wait
14:04:00alexbobpany issues in the stock firmware?
14:04:14alexbobpor is only rockbox acting up
14:04:21Link8put it in diskmde
14:04:24Link8gonna try to restore it now
14:04:33Link8whenever i put rockbox on it
14:04:38Link8i cant eject the ipod
14:04:41Link8then i unplug it
14:04:44Link8and i get that weird screen
14:06:26Link8i see it
14:06:50Link8gonna try putting rockbox on it on my mac
14:06:52edhelaspamaury, but after having a better look at the I/O debug screen I see something changing on C when I press buttons on the remote which is a good thing I think :)
14:10:44alexbobpLink8: hold on what do you mean you can't eject it?
14:10:52alexbobpit sounds like you're pulling it out before it's done installing rockbox
14:15:00Link8it says its done with the install
14:15:03Link8then i press on eject
14:15:04Link8and i cant
14:15:16Link8it says maybe the thing is being used by other sources
14:15:20Link8gonna try it on the mac now
14:16:52Link8hmm it doesnt work on mac
14:17:04Link8says couldnt open ipod permission denied
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14:26:37alexbobpLink8: the thing is, the rockbox program might think it's done installing, but the os is still busy syncing the data to the drive
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14:26:43alexbobpso you have to wait until it fully unmounts on the os
14:26:54Link8but it says its done
14:27:16 Quit ungali (Remote host closed the connection)
14:28:52Link8so when the roxkbox utility says its done
14:28:55 Join ungali [0] (ungali@unaffiliated/ungali)
14:28:57Link8its not done yet youre saying?
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14:36:39alexbobpLink8: it's like when you copy a file to a flash drive
14:36:51alexbobpif the instant the file copy dialogue goes away, you yank the drive, you get a corrupt file
14:37:17alexbobpan operating system's job is to make sure programs don't have to directly deal with hardware
14:37:35alexbobpand the file copy dialogue's job is just to make sure the os knows what data to put there
14:37:47Link8yes but it says its done
14:37:52alexbobpso the file copy dialogue has to read all the source data, but the stuff it writes out goes into operating system buffers
14:37:53Link8and when i try to eject it wont
14:37:57alexbobpit's all for performance optimization
14:38:05gevaertsThe you find out *why* it won't
14:38:06Link8so what are you saying
14:38:07alexbobpsay you have a program that writes a file, and another program that reads in that file
14:38:26gevaertsYou probably have an explorer window open on it or something like that
14:38:27alexbobpif everything had to be synced to disk, then the delay would be longer between running those two programs
14:38:43alexbobpbut since the operating system buffers writes, the program can read it out of the write buffer before it's actually synced to disk
14:38:56alexbobpthat's a clumsy example but trust me, computers would be crap if they didn't use buffering :P
14:38:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:39:21alexbobpanyways the moral of the story is, until your operating system confirms that it has cleanly unmounted a drive, you can't trust that anything is actually on the drive
14:39:54Link8so the utility is done
14:39:59gevaertsalexbobp: I doubt that's the issue here though. Sounds more like windows (or any OS, really) refusing to unmount a filesystem if something (such as a file browser) is still using it
14:40:00Link8and it wont eject
14:40:02Link8what do i do?
14:40:29alexbobpgevaerts: windows doesn't refuse to unmount drives for explorer windows fwiw
14:40:48alexbobpLink8: does it give you a message saying it won't eject or does it make you wait?
14:40:58gevaertsalexbobp: I'm sure I've seen it do just that
14:41:05alexbobpif you get process explorer,
14:41:13alexbobpyou can search for open file handles to a drive
14:41:40Link8wait a sec
14:41:44Link8ill tell you what it says
14:41:47alexbobpgevaerts: either way whatever the reason is for windows not unmounting it, surely you agree that we need to make sure windows unmounts it before yanking the drive :P
14:42:29gevaertsalexbobp: definitely. Not doing that is asking for trouble :)
14:42:57gevaertsWhich is why USB connectors should have been designed with little host-controlled latches
14:43:18alexbobpoh god please tell me you're joking :P
14:44:05alexbobpI'm the guy who still insists that laptops need hardware potentiometer-based volume controls. you're never gonna convince me on that one
14:44:16*gevaerts keeps a straight face
14:44:23alexbobpcell phones too for that matter
14:44:33alexbobpand mp3 players
14:45:47gevaertsAh, you want systems to be designed so that incompetent hardware or software developers have a hard time screwing up?
14:45:50gevaertsGood luck with that!
14:46:10alexbobpwell that's a huge ask
14:46:13 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother)
14:46:20alexbobpbut I at least want systems designed so I can make them stop making noise when the software screws up
14:46:57alexbobpremember when you could pull the battery out of your phone? those were the days
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14:49:33 Quit bluebrother^ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
14:50:49 Quit Galois (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
14:56:17 Quit krnlyng (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
15:06:16 Join einhirn [0] (
15:08:50Link8Ejecting the device failed. Please make sure no programs are accessing files on the device. If ejecting still fails please use your computers eject functionality
15:08:57Link8is what it says alexbobp
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15:15:05 Quit einhirn (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
15:16:32alexbobpLink8: ok. and you didn't do anything to deliberately access the device besides the rockbox installer?
15:17:14gevaertsClose *all* open programs and try again
15:19:10Link8theres no progs open
15:21:06alexbobpLink8: try process explorer
15:21:10alexbobpI linked it above
15:24:29 Join ruhans [0] (uid76353@gateway/web/
15:35:39Link8this is weird
15:35:48Link8you till around alexbobop
15:38:42Link8maybe i should try to install it manuelly?
15:42:34edhelasok let's try to build rockbox and hack it a bit to catch theses remote events
15:44:41alexbobpLink8: yeah
15:44:49alexbobpwhat's weird?
15:45:12Link8it wont let me eject
15:45:18Link8should i try manuelly?
15:45:20alexbobpdid you try process explorer?
15:45:27Link8no how does it work
15:45:41alexbobpit's like a better task manager
15:45:55Link8how can you see whats using the ipod
15:46:03Link8alexbobp i never had that with rockboxutility before
15:46:08Link8i think it should just eject normally
15:47:00alexbobpyou hit ctrl-f
15:47:13alexbobpand then type in whatever drive letter with a colon backslash
15:47:21alexbobplike E:\
15:47:28alexbobpmatching the drive letter of the ipod
15:47:39alexbobpand it searches for open file handles with that in them
15:48:15Link8oh sick
15:48:18Link8ok gonna try it
15:48:55Link8ok got it
15:49:00alexbobpit's actually really useful in a lot of situations
15:49:02Link8restored the ipod again
15:49:09Link8should i try rockbox utility again?
15:49:16alexbobplike when windows doesn't let you delete a file
15:49:25alexbobpoh hold on, did you just restore the ipod?
15:49:32alexbobpunmount it first
15:49:44alexbobplet it boot up to the normal ipod os at least once
15:50:29Link8i did umount it
15:50:33Link8ok unplugging and replugging it
15:50:42alexbobpumount? are you on linux?
15:50:51alexbobpah ok
15:50:57Link8ok its plugged in
15:50:59Link8now what
15:51:03alexbobpumount is the linux command to unmount so I wanted to make sure xD
15:52:07Link8now what
15:52:10Link8run itulity?
15:54:34 Quit tomnor (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
15:59:56edhelasMakefile:2470: recipe for target 'toplev.o' failed
16:00:04Link8i dont see my ipod in Sysinternals
16:03:18edhelaslooks like my gcc version is too rece nt
16:04:32alexbobpLink8: so it unmounted cleanly after you restored it?
16:04:41Link8ejected it
16:04:46Link8now i plugged it in again
16:04:53Link8the apple fw unmounts fine
16:05:02Link8so now what?
16:05:30 Join ZincAlloy [0] (
16:05:41Link8dont ee it in sysinternals
16:12:21alexbobpok cool well run the rockbox installer as normal now
16:12:31alexbobpafter you quit the rockbox installer, do the search
16:12:35alexbobpand tell me what you see
16:12:49Link8if i search now
16:12:51Link8i see nothing
16:12:56Link8in that sysinternals
16:12:59Link8what do i search for?
16:13:27alexbobpdid you run the rockbox installer?
16:13:39alexbobpI already told you what to search for
16:13:44alexbobpdon't get all huffy :P
16:13:47Link8but i should see the ipod already right?
16:14:03alexbobpdo you know what an open file handle is?
16:14:14alexbobpit's when a program is holding a file open
16:14:20alexbobpfor reading or writing or whatever
16:14:32alexbobpso usually open handles are what prevent unmounting the drive
16:14:43alexbobpand you were having the issue after running the rockbox installer
16:14:48alexbobpso run the rockbox installer
16:16:47Link8but shouldnt you be able to see the ipod already?
16:17:16 Quit krabador (Quit: Take The Time)
16:18:05 Quit dys (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
16:18:40[Saint]Run alexbobp, run.
16:18:55alexbobp[Saint]: I guess I am patient :P
16:19:04Link8yes [Saint]
16:19:11Link8why do i always have to run into problems :P
16:19:17alexbobpLink8: that search box is searching for OPEN FILE HANDLES, not ALL DRIVES EVER
16:19:25Link8Saint any idea why i cant unmount it?
16:19:31*alexbobp dies
16:19:37Link8so when its done
16:19:40Link8what do i search for
16:19:49alexbobpwhat is the drive letter of the ipod?
16:19:58[Saint]I have a very high suspicion that the hardware in question is defective.
16:20:00Link8think its F:
16:20:08alexbobpyou search for F:\
16:20:13[Saint]There's no indication that the hardware has been functional at any point.
16:20:15Link8its not defective [Sanint]
16:20:24alexbobp[Saint]: the hardware between the keyboard and the chair?
16:20:34Link8apple fw it runs fine
16:20:37alexbobpsorry, that wasn't nice
16:21:14[Saint]alexbobp: that's my primary suspicion, yes, actually. But even I have trouble believing it's possible to fuck up this badly, repeatedly.
16:21:45alexbobp[Saint]: I suspect they just have some background program that is messing with the drive that needs to be identified, or that the rockbox utility is glitching and not exiting properly
16:21:58alexbobpeither way we'd have an answer quickly if Link8 does what I said
16:21:59edhelas[Saint], I got some little issues when compiling
16:22:04[Saint]my guess would be the indexing service.
16:22:10edhelasI saw your comment in the log about
16:22:11edhelasCFLAGS="-U_FORTIFY_SOURCE -fgnu89-inline" ../$toolname-$version/configure −−target=$target −−prefix=$prefix −−enable-languages=c −−disable-libssp −−disable-docs $configure_params
16:22:23alexbobp[Saint]: good point, quite possible
16:22:31edhelasit would be usefull to do a patch in the trunk for this one
16:22:34alexbobpLink8: so did you run the rockbox installer yet
16:22:45[Saint]alexbobp: also - yes, following instruction isn't a strong point here.
16:23:01[Saint]you'll get little bits and pieces, but never precisely what you asked for.
16:23:06alexbobpLink8: process explorer's job is to diagnose the problem. that means we have to reproduce the problem so there is something to diagnose?
16:23:09Link8its installing themes right now alexbobp
16:23:10alexbobper ignore the ?
16:23:12alexbobpok cool
16:23:24alexbobpafter you quit the rockbox installer, run the search
16:23:34Link8whats the keyword for the search
16:23:39alexbobpoh my fucking god
16:23:42alexbobpI'm done
16:23:45alexbobphave fun
16:25:45Link8youre not clear alexbobp
16:26:12 Join dys [0] (
16:26:29[Saint]I just read the backlog, he's been perfectly clear.
16:26:37Link8ok gonna read again
16:26:42[Saint]and incredibly patient.
16:26:59Link8shit sorry i missed that
16:27:01Link8youre right
16:27:04Link8sorry guys
16:27:05alexbobptwice :P
16:27:19Link8thanks alexbobp
16:27:24Link8waiting now til its finished
16:27:35Link8this is a 512 gb esata
16:28:18[Saint]So, now you _finally_ give us the relevant information, that you changed the fucking HDD?
16:28:25[Saint]You didn;t think that was important?
16:28:35[Saint]Jesus Christ.
16:29:07Link8i thought it wouldnt be so relevant
16:29:22Link8since it installs perfectly and picks it up as 5gen
16:29:30Link8just cant unmount
16:33:43Link8does it matter [Saint] ?
16:35:11[Saint]Yes. Yes it does matter. To be able to debug this I would need the hardware in front of me, and a specific debug build to know exactly where in the code path it is failing.
16:35:31[Saint]No offense, but I'm not even going to attempt to do this via a third party.
16:36:35[Saint]It /should/ 'Just Work' if the original firmware can address it, but that's apparently not the case here. It's possible that the original firmware is more lenient in this regard.
16:36:36 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.)
16:36:58Link8i just installed the themes
16:37:13Link8i know i get the same problem if i start the Install now again
16:37:17Link8that i cant unmount
16:37:27Link8but ill try what alexbobp told me
16:38:16[Saint]Honestly, with the fact that the bootloader can't seem to be able to even detect the drive, your OS not being able to eject it is the least of your worries.
16:38:35Link8how do you know bootloader cant detect the drive?
16:38:41Link8i have seen rockbox on the ipod
16:38:47Link8but only for a few seconds
16:38:53Link8then it goes to that weird screen again
16:39:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:39:44 Part dys ("Killed buffer")
16:41:22[Saint]Hmmm. OK. That's pertinent. Interesting.
16:44:19Link8yes weird
16:44:22Link8i see the rockbox menu too
16:44:31Link8then it goes to that screen i posted a pic of last night
16:49:33alexbobpfor what it's worth [Saint] I never had trouble rockboxing ipods minis with CF cards :P
16:49:50Link8rockbox utility still going alexbobp
16:50:06alexbobpigitoor: did you ever finish the install and run that search?
16:50:11alexbobper Link8
16:51:12[Saint]alexbobp: CF is a fairly standard and tolerant format. There's any number of things an eSATA drive might be doing to piss us off or make 'weird shit' happen.
16:51:21Link8maybe installing rockbox mauelly is an idea?
16:51:47edhelas[Saint], I have chances, I have a CF->microSD in my Mini that works perfectly :) 32Gb
16:52:01 Join ZincAlloy [0] (
16:52:19edhelas*I'm lucky
16:53:19[Saint]If 'shit just works', and you've modified hardware - good for you. If it doesn't, and you modified hardware and your draining the resources of the volunteers, ...I wanna know about it, preferably before that happens. :)
16:53:43alexbobpthough in this case, the main factor in wasting time was rambling and ignoring directions
16:53:45Link8installing manuelly maybe should work?
16:53:56alexbobpLink8: finish what we're trying now first
16:54:25alexbobpuntil you do an install and a CLEAN unmount, you have no reason to believe the installer is actually failing
16:54:34alexbobpyanking a mounted drive = of course it's gonna fuck up
16:55:46Link8Package installation finished succesfully
16:56:15Link8ok ejecting failed
16:56:20Link8gonna try now
16:57:27Link80 matching items
16:57:37Link8i did F:\
16:57:59Link8Mountpoint is F:\
17:00:09Link8now what
17:00:27gevaertsHas anyone checked if itunes is installed on that system?
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17:02:41 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
17:07:05Link8i managed to umount it in the explorer
17:07:17Link8same error
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17:12:13alexbobpLink8: I think this means windows is stupid.
17:12:41alexbobpLink8: but go ahead and look through the process list and make sure there aren't stray rockbox installers
17:13:00alexbobpand if not, just wait 15 minutes and then pull it
17:13:03Link8no there arent
17:13:12alexbobpshoudl be long enough to make sure it's not an fsync issue
17:13:28alexbobpeither way it does sound like a hardware issue unless it's an os bug
17:13:29Link8dont think the installer works on this hd
17:13:54alexbobpgevaerts: presumably it is
17:15:05gevaertsalexbobp: how do we know it's not getting in the way?
17:15:26alexbobpI dunno!
17:15:35alexbobpI always do my rockbox installs from linux
17:15:47alexbobpitunes always gets in the way imo
17:16:03alexbobpin all seriousness though that's our best theory yet
17:16:19alexbobpbut I am not about to try to talk Link8 through starting and stopping services
17:20:20 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
17:25:43Link8is there any way to download all the ipod video themes in one time
17:26:12[Saint]Why the fuck do you care about themes when you can't even run Rockbox?
17:26:17[Saint]Lets get serious here.
17:26:34[Saint]The issue isn't the installation method. I pretty much guarantee it.
17:26:59Link8im gonna try something else
17:27:17Link8rockbox utility wont run on a modded ipod
17:27:27Link8is there a zip file with all the ipod video themes Saint?
17:27:45Link8then have to download them one by one pff
17:28:00[Saint]And, Rockbox Utility _is_ installing Rockbox here. Please lets not make bullshit claims.
17:28:08[Saint]The installer is quite obviously working.
17:28:46Link8yes i read this by googling
17:28:46[Saint]The issue, since this persists across two OSes, is quite obviously the hardware.
17:28:52Link8that its not working for modded ipods
17:28:56[Saint]Whether you want to admit it or not. It is.
17:29:05[Saint]That is absolutely untrue.
17:29:07Link8just tod you that
17:29:18Link8ok im gonna see and try this other way
17:29:21Link8to see if its untrue
17:29:29[Saint]It is.
17:29:40Link8dont believe so
17:29:42[Saint]Categorically untrue.
17:29:46Link8but will let you know in a min
17:29:58[Saint]The installer doesn't know, or care, what hardware the device has.
17:30:03[Saint]It has no way of detecting this.
17:30:24[Saint]Claiming otherwise is nonsense.
17:30:43Link8i didnt claime that
17:30:48Link8i read it by googling
17:34:00[Saint]I read bu Googling that spraying vinegar at 'chemtrails' makes them break up harmlessly in the atmosphere.
17:34:06[Saint]But it doesn't make it any less batshit.
17:34:57Link8so do i just drag the themes into the themes folder?
17:35:02Link8well see i will try it
17:36:11[Saint]I really have no idea why you are so obsessed with themes when the issue at hand is that Rockbox doesn't actually seem to run on your device for longer than a few seconds and panics with a pretty obvious HDD related error.
17:36:25 Nick krnlyng_ is now known as krnlyng (~liar@
17:36:33Link8this is an SSD
17:36:45[Saint]which is a....what?
17:36:51Link8well see
17:38:08gevaerts[Saint]: well, clearly, not working on an ssd makes themes still relevant, while not working on a spinning disk doesn't
17:38:35[Saint]aha! :)
17:39:13edhelaswhat about à CF ? I think it's even more relevant
17:40:08gevaertsedhelas: I think you only want odd-numbered themes on that
17:40:16[Saint]Are the themes stored on the server on an SSD or an HDD? Maybe there's a compatibility error.
17:40:26*[Saint] sniggers
17:42:39Link8[Saint] you're wrong my friend
17:42:45Link8its working now
17:42:52Link8just like i thought
17:42:57Link8used a patched version of rockbox
17:43:03edhelaswonderful :)
17:43:29Link8now lets see if i can get the themes to work
17:43:33[Saint]Come again? How does that make me wrong?
17:43:59[Saint]I never said anything to that effect you giant fucking douchebag.
17:44:01Link8you said the issue was the hardware
17:44:12[Saint]It _IS_.
17:44:13Link8whats your problem
17:44:24Link8that makes you wrong right?
17:44:28Link8what are you mad for
17:44:32Link8i appreciate your help
17:44:34[Saint]Actually, y'know what...
17:44:38gevaertsLink8: talk sense or shut up
17:44:51Link8i appreciate Saint
17:44:57Link8hes not being nice to me
17:45:03Link8so i need to talk sense or shut up
17:46:47Link8[Saint] doesn't like to admit his mistakes
17:46:52Link8im being cool here
17:46:57Link8whats the problem
17:46:59Link8[17:26:35] [Saint] )) The issue isn't the installation method. I pretty much guarantee it.
17:47:04Link8it was the issue
17:47:08[Saint]And it wasn't.
17:47:12gevaertsIt was *not*
17:47:14[Saint]It was the fucking Rockbox binary.
17:47:22Link8the utility thing wasnt working
17:47:27Link8chill out bro
17:47:28[Saint]Stop being an idiot, or I will remove you from here.
17:47:33gevaertsRockbox utility installed a perfectly good rockbox build
17:47:43Link8i dont understad
17:47:47Link8maybe you could explain it to me
17:47:49gevaertsThat that build didn't work was because you had changed *hardware*
17:47:52Link8im not trying to piss anyone off here
17:47:56gevaertsThat means it's a *hardware* issue
17:48:02Link8i see
17:48:13Link8any way to change that with the rock box utility
17:48:29[Saint]your hardware? ...the fuck? seriously?
17:48:35Link8is there a way i can install it automatically?
17:48:58alexbobpFWIW Link8, after a manual rockbox install, you can still run the rockbox utility to add themes and such
17:49:09Link8yea i know alexbobp
17:49:23Link8just trying to find out since its the rockbox binary
17:49:31Link8it it can still be installed automatically?
17:49:35Link8just trying to learn here
17:49:55[Saint]Rockbox Utility will only install an official binary.
17:50:04Link8i see
17:50:21alexbobpbtw where did you find this patched rockbox?
17:50:22Link8but the binary for this ipod is different correct?
17:50:27alexbobpperhaps that patch needs to be merged :P
17:50:35Link8sec let me find the link
17:50:47Link8[Saint] we still cool my friend?
17:50:59[Saint]I have a feeling I know the patch in question, and why it's not merged.
17:51:08alexbobp[Saint]: haha is it messy?
17:51:16alexbobpor does it break on all non-modified ipods :P
17:51:30[Saint]If it's the one I'm thinking of, it doesn't really address the issue, it only kinda sidesteps it by making it more tolerant.
17:51:39alexbobpcan you elaborate?
17:51:46[Saint]wider timings.
17:52:00alexbobpahh so waiting longer for the disk basically?
17:52:00Link8heres the link
17:52:09[Saint]aaaand, it is.
17:52:42Link8any way i can still auto install it [Saint]?
17:52:49Link8i trust the utility more
17:53:01Link8too bad
17:53:18gevaertsYou can patch rockbox utility to point at your server and host your own binaries and associated metadata there
17:53:24[Saint]Fortunately, this now means no one has any obligation to support you.
17:53:29[Saint]So, that's good.
17:53:36alexbobp"...they provide detailed specs & datasheet as always . which made my rockbox firmware patching much easier"
17:53:57alexbobpbased on this it sounds like it's not just haphazardly making it more tolerant, but actually based on how the new hardware is supposed to behave
17:54:15alexbobpI'm curious, what's the downside of the wider timings?
17:55:22alexbobpand what would you consider to be "addressing the issue"?
17:55:53Link8i rather run the normal rockbox fw
17:55:58Link8so theres no way to do that?
17:56:00alexbobpalso nobody has the obligation to support anyone, it's not like we have all purchased rockbox support contracts :P
17:56:19alexbobpLink8: I think the whole point of this exercise was that the normal rockbox firmware doesn't support your ssd
17:56:30edhelasalexbobp, maybe you should launch a hotline support :D 1€/min
17:56:34[Saint]alexbobp: well, what I meant with that was pertaining to the unofficial binary.
17:56:36Link8i know
17:58:09Link8themes dont seem to work
17:59:00alexbobpthis dude seems pretty cool, he also modded 2 batteries into his ipod xD
17:59:43alexbobpoh and this quote "The official rockbox firmware have issues on error recovery handling, thus failed to work with mSATA SSD mod. Firmware was subsequently patched to correct the error handling problem."
17:59:50alexbobpfrom the technical details page, sounds a lot more like [Saint] said
18:00:03alexbobpbasically doublespeak for "the new hardware acts all screwy so I made the firmware ignore the screwiness" xD
18:00:26alexbobpthat said, it's pretty awesome that the patched firmware is out there to support this mod but yeah, I see why it's not merged
18:00:56Link8so i can just drop the themes in the rockbox root right
18:01:14[Saint]the timing used also isn't guaranteed not to fuck up when switching between boosted/unboosted states.
18:01:22[Saint]it might work for a subset of people, but it's plain ugly.
18:02:55alexbobpahhh I see
18:03:19alexbobpLink8: why aren't you just using the rockbox installer?
18:03:28alexbobpmanually install the firmware binary, but then use the installer to add themes
18:03:40Link8thats a good idea
18:03:48alexbobpit's also the third time I suggest it, cheers
18:04:01Link8haha thanks
18:05:18Link8i tried adding the themes manuelly
18:05:22Link8but it doesnt pick it up
18:09:21alexbobpI miss my ipod nano 2g
18:09:28alexbobpthat I burned out when I connected it to a 12v charger xD
18:09:59alexbobpbut the nano 2g has the best possible display technology for an mp3 player
18:10:18alexbobpI can keep it at minimum backlight brightness and it's perfectly visible from darkened rooms to broad daylight :D
18:14:41alexbobpoh man there's one going cheap on ebay with this description: "Has rap music on it, I don't know how to get it off"
18:14:44alexbobpI laughed
18:18:35 Nick suYin`OFF is now known as suYin (
18:18:57 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador)
18:19:00[Saint]2000 copies of 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 - Track 1.mp3.mp3.mp3.mp3.mp3
18:19:05[Saint]with no metadata.
18:19:28alexbobpdoesn't matter, anything I buy I wipe :P
18:21:06[Saint]slightly related, there was one ipod I got second hand that I didn't wipe.
18:21:16[Saint]Well, I did. But I kept most of the media.
18:21:51[Saint]It contained a bunch of live set recordings from the very early days of the Christchurch NZ modern punk scene.
18:21:56alexbobpoh cool
18:22:08 Join fs-bluebot [0] (
18:22:12edhelasok so I definitly see something on GPIOC_INPUT_VAL when I press the all the buttons on the remote, the whole thing now is to see if I can see exactly what binary string is sent for each buttons and find where in the sourcecode I can fire the next/prev/play... events :)
18:22:15[Saint]Several of which were bands I knew, who didn't actually have recordings of those sets themselves.
18:22:18alexbobp[Saint]: I'm curious. got any opinions on your favorite mp3 player display technology?
18:22:22[Saint]One of those sets is a CD release now
18:23:28alexbobpdid they get the files from you to release on cd?
18:23:58[Saint]Yeah. Took me a while to track 'em down in the end but it was met with enthusiasm.
18:24:11[Saint]Also, transflective monochromatic displays for me.
18:24:24alexbobpah so like the ipod mini?
18:24:25edhelasdid you guys already hack this part of rockbox ? the buttons maping ?
18:24:40alexbobpI got my ipod mini with a 32gb cf card, it's my ebook device
18:25:20[Saint]alexbobp: yup - I like that it's visible in very harsh lighting conditions.
18:25:44[Saint]but very few devices have them now, considered ancient tech.
18:25:59alexbobpI know, it makes me sad :(
18:26:24alexbobpthe only modern thing I have with a transflective screen is my pebble watch
18:26:57alexbobpand even pebble is alone there, all the other smartwatches have active displays (and resultingly turn themselves off all the time and have to be charged every day and are all manner of stupid)
18:29:28bluebrotherhmm. Did something change in the gerrit workflow? I've submitted a change, now it's "Submitted, Merge Pending". Do I need to do something for that merge?
18:30:22bluebrotheror is that because it's part of a patch series?
18:31:57Link8[Saint] what kind of music player do u use
18:33:52[Saint]bluebrother: AFAIK that's just an odd wording for saying it's sitting there staged for review
18:34:14bluebrotherhmm. I did review and +2 it already :)
18:34:53bluebrothermaybe I need to cherry-pick that one?
18:34:53[Saint]errr, I guess I worded that badly.
18:35:38[Saint]WHat I mean to say is I think it's just an odd way of saying that it's sitting there pending commit to upstream.
18:35:58bluebrotherso some automated process that's kicking in later?
18:36:02Link8can you make a better fw for modded ipods [Saint]?
18:36:31[Saint]Link8: none of my SSD modified iPods need any of this fuckery.
18:36:45Link8you have some too?
18:36:47[Saint]it only seems to be a subset of SSDs that do.
18:36:49[Saint]I do, yes.
18:36:58Link8you dont run rockbox on them?
18:36:58*bluebrother has a modded mini that works perfectly out of the box
18:37:02[Saint]I do.
18:37:20Link8what fw do u use on them?
18:37:28*bluebrother guesses "rockbox"
18:37:28alexbobpdoes a mini with a cf card count as an ssd mod?
18:37:35alexbobpit is solid state memory :P
18:37:48bluebrotheralexbobp: I'd say so (it's the mod I'm using regularly ;-)
18:38:04alexbobpbluebrother: same here :D though I don't use it as much
18:38:16alexbobphonestly I mostly listen to podcasts so I just listen on my phone
18:38:18edhelassomeone knows here if all the IO of the pp5020 has been mapped in Rockbox ?
18:38:44[Saint]I would have my doubts.
18:39:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:39:24[Saint]Whatever is mapped probably only directly relates to whatever whoever was working on at the time.
18:39:45Link8[Saint] which fw are you running for your mods?
18:40:14[Saint]Like I said none of my hardware needs any special treatment.
18:40:20Link8oh really
18:40:26[Saint]Really really.
18:40:35 Quit krnlyng (Quit: huiiiiii)
18:40:43Link8how big are your hds?
18:40:51edhelasyes that's what I tought, I see one small binary change that is the same for all the remote buttons in GPIOC_INPUT_VAL which is maybe a simple trigger
18:40:59 Join krnlyng [0] (
18:41:49edhelasso if something i sent to this board, it's somewhere else, and for now I have no clue where to find it :D
18:44:01bluebrother[Saint]: ok, so it was related to the change being part of a patch series. Cherry-picking it to master made it possible to merge it :)
18:44:20[Saint]good to know, thanks.
18:44:48*[Saint] has several dozen commits sitting in his staging branch and should stop being a lazy fuck
18:45:17edhelas[Saint], they are related to what feature ?
18:45:20bluebrotherwell, same goes for me :)
18:45:52bluebrotherI've made a few changes a few weeks back and forgot to push ... now they need some work :(
18:45:59[Saint]edhelas: one of them is the issue you mentioned above, the rest are small changes to the build system and some saner handling of some things.
18:46:34[Saint]I'm also working on a replacement for the script that sets up our android environment, as it's truly ancient and horribly broken.
18:46:40edhelasoh, can't wait to see them in the trunk <3
18:47:29edhelaswhat specific issue I mentionned did you fix ?
18:48:26[Saint]the one you managed to figure out from the IRC logs regarding GCC.
18:48:37edhelasoh ok :)
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18:59:06Link8i tried to install the themes with the Utility alexbobp
18:59:11bluebrotherhmm. Should we drop support for OS X 10.4 and 10.5 for Rockbox Utility?
18:59:17Link8unfortunately i get the same error again
18:59:25fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 438 seconds.
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18:59:51Link8so its not possible to do that with the Utility
19:00:00Link8i dont think i can get themes to work with the patch
19:01:49[Saint]Themes have no effect here.
19:02:00[Saint]Like I said above, the patch is questionable at best.
19:02:09[Saint]At worst, it's outright wrong.
19:03:23Link8dont know what else i can do
19:06:00Link8could you make a better patch?
19:06:06bluebrotherwhat's your problem with themes? Rockbox Utility just installs them ...
19:06:29[Saint]Precisely nothing.
19:06:30bluebrotherif they don't work they're either broken or installation failed, which usually happens if you point Rockbox Utility to the wrong drive
19:07:13Link8dont get why the themes dont work
19:07:34*Dhraakellian just tried out voice menus and file browser for the first time the other day
19:08:41Dhraakellianeenteresting. question is what the best voice is and how to get rockbox utility to recognize what festival voices dnf installed on my fedora system
19:09:01Link8i miss my themes :(
19:09:06Dhraakellianmore research needed, but I might be able now to rehabilitate my roommates clip+/zip with the dead screen
19:09:27Link8[Saint] you interested in looking into this?
19:09:41Dhraakellianeven with my clip+ found, I still miss my fuze
19:10:07bluebrotherwrong mountpoint selected? Themes for wrong player installed?
19:10:42bluebrotherhmm. We should have more unit tests here
19:10:52*bluebrother just discovered a bug in uninstallation :(
19:12:40DhraakellianI generally just unzip into the root directory of my DAP
19:13:04[Saint]Link8: unless you're planning on shipping me the hardware, no, absolutely not.
19:14:05Link8ill ship it
19:14:09[Saint]Any developer would need this precise combination of hardware to form a patch that is functional for this use case, as well as globally.
19:15:11[Saint]And, also the time. Which isn't a resource many of us have available in the late blooming stage of Rockbox.
19:17:50fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 610b80b, 255 builds, 26 clients.
19:24:15Link8got a theme to half work
19:26:11bluebrother"half work" :)
19:26:45fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 535 seconds.
19:26:46fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 610b80b result: 0 errors 114 warnings
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19:27:05saratoga_anyone around who can test a clipv2 build to see if buttons work normally?
19:28:28bluebrotherhmm, having a new Rockbox release might be a good thing. We could have Rockbox 3.14 "pi" :)
19:28:58*bluebrother only has a clip+ around
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19:30:11saratoga_yeah i'd like to do a release
19:30:19saratoga_the amsv2 power stuff should go in shortly
19:30:23saratoga_after that it'd be nice to release
19:30:34[Saint]the release is effectively meaningless.
19:30:51[Saint]anyone who gives a fuck switched to dev builds long ago, or doesn;t care.
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19:31:06[Saint]I consider it wasted effort at this late stage.
19:32:33saratoga_i don't think its too much effort, and it'll probably encourage people to update who are on very old code
19:33:05bluebrother[Saint]: I've been watching a talk that made me think otherwise:
19:33:25*gevaerts has watched that too
19:33:43gevaertsIt says releases remind the world that you're still alive
19:33:44bluebrotheraround 25min in the video
19:33:58gevaertsWhich may mean it's not applicable to us :)
19:34:03bluebrotheryeps, and thinking about it it does make a lot of sense.
19:34:04[Saint]I think the release was meaningful when we actually had critical issues in the supported targets.
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19:34:47*gevaerts thinks a release would be good, but he thinks we can't do a release that's as good as they used to be
19:35:00[Saint]Anyone who's been on a release for years on end now is highly unlikely to discover it, even if we did make a release.
19:35:00bluebrotherthat's quite possible, unfortunately
19:35:22gevaertsBack for 3.0 I went through all plugins on all of my targets to check that they at least started and the basics worked, and I tried all test tracks...
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19:35:55gevaertsAnd I still think that's *needed* for a target to get a release, but after 3.0 I don't think anyone has bothered
19:36:05saratoga_back for 3.0 i had actual free time and could do things like that
19:36:12[Saint]I just don't really honestly think that a release is a meaningful part of our flow anymore.
19:36:22bluebrotherwe do still flow?
19:36:27[Saint]all the supported targets are stable on mainline.
19:36:33*bluebrother wants to push a new Rockbox Utility release
19:36:42saratoga_i dont think releases have to be absolutely stable, but they should be known, bugs documented, and if necessary fixed in 3.x.1 releases
19:36:46[Saint]that, you can certainly do.
19:36:55bluebrotherthough I need to (a) find some time for that and (b) get me motivated enough
19:37:01gevaerts[Saint]: it would reduce support a bit. You wouldn't have to reply on the forums about trying a dev build all the time
19:37:25saratoga_itd be interesting to know what the download stats are like
19:37:32saratoga_are people still downloading 3.13?
19:37:44bluebrotherI'd guess so
19:38:00gevaertsWe need to ask zagor about that
19:38:07gevaertsHe's offline right now though
19:38:08[Saint]something might be, perhaps not people though. :)
19:38:13saratoga_also, we're nearly ready for an ipod 6g stable right?
19:38:45bluebrotherRockbox Utility defaults to using the latest release for stable targets
19:38:52[Saint]The bootloader isn't near release quality, and there's no RBUtil support for it (of course).
19:39:08bluebrotherthere's work on bootloader installation support in gerrit
19:39:12[Saint]So, 6g still has some ways to go.
19:39:23bluebrotherI've been merging some of the changes for that earlier today
19:39:25saratoga_looks fairly well along
19:39:34bluebrotheryeps, some of g#1221
19:39:48fs-bluebotGerrit review #1221 at : iPod Classic: dual bootloader (bundle) by Cástor Muñoz
19:39:56[Saint]Oh, it is, but I wouldn;t call it release quality at this stage and it's still a moving target.
19:40:14saratoga_plus we didn't used to require rbutil support for something to be stable, just a documented way to install it
19:40:28Link8themes are all scattered
19:40:36Link8how can that be [Saint]
19:40:52[Saint]Stable ports
19:40:52[Saint]Rockbox runs well on these players, has a complete manual and is supported by the installer:
19:41:07saratoga_thats not true in general
19:41:13[Saint]How so?
19:41:14saratoga_e200 rhapsody isn't for example
19:41:51saratoga_Whilst every effort is made to try and ensure a manual is available for every supported target, these are not always available immediately when a port reaches "supported" status. Similarly, integration into Rockbox Utility may not always be available.
19:42:36bluebrotherwell, the 6G is currently unusable. Is that really true or should it be rather unstable these days?
19:42:45saratoga_i vaguely remember writing those guidelines specifically because i knew we were literally never going to get e200r patching into rbutil :)
19:42:47[Saint]the latter.
19:42:54gevaertsThe ipod6g is about not having our own bootloader, not a GUI installer
19:43:15saratoga_should be unstable, but it uses emcore which people were uncomfortable with because its a large, external project that most of us don't know about
19:43:38saratoga_probably once the bootloader goes in its stable, but absolutely at least 'unstable'
19:43:55[Saint]at the end of the day it's a development resource masquerading as a bootloader.
19:44:06[Saint]being able to boot rockbox is just one of its many forms.
19:44:12[Saint]it's way too powerful for end users.
19:44:41[Saint]and goes against the 'no fancy bootloaders' informal policy.
19:44:52Link8i cant even play music
19:45:05Link8Error accessing playlist control file -4
19:45:11bluebrotheras far as I understand g#1221 it's about getting a Rockbox bootloader done ...
19:45:24fs-bluebotGerrit review #1221 at : iPod Classic: dual bootloader (bundle) by Cástor Muñoz
19:45:26bluebrotherthen there's a problem accessing the playlist control file *g*
19:45:42Link8dont get it
19:46:09saratoga_yeah it would be nice to ask Castor about when he expects to have the bootloader ready (not necessarily with rbutil)
19:46:33Link8its playing now
19:46:37saratoga_hes prof_wolfff?
19:46:37Link8this is sick :)
19:46:58[Saint](sorry bud - tagged for visibility)
19:47:26saratoga_regarding amsv2, i've been running frequency/voltage scaling on the clipv2 for days, and its been working on the other players since forever
19:47:28Link8sound on this is amazing
19:47:52saratoga_i'll commit fixes for the button drivers (removing frequency dependent delays in favor of udelay) shortly
19:48:01saratoga_then i'll probably commit frequency scaling
19:48:10saratoga_then we'll see how that goes and follow up with voltage scaling
19:48:31[Saint]it'd be nice to get that rounded out after so many years.
19:48:39[Saint]for you personally, it must feel very good.
19:48:48saratoga_i'm actually a little curious though why some of the button drivers seem to require different absolute delays when run at different CPU clocks
19:48:56saratoga_yeah that will be nice
19:49:20saratoga_funman: probably you too :)
19:49:57[Saint]Holy shit, I had no idea he still lurked here.
19:50:05[Saint]Haven't seen him in ages.
19:50:22[Saint](in _this_ community - elsewhere, yes)
19:51:40saratoga_also if anyone has an old amsv1 device they're not using, they should give it to mihail and see if he gets interested in figuring out frequency scaling there :)
19:53:02saratoga_as i recall we had it mostly working before v2 killed interest in those devices
19:54:14funmansaratoga_: don't remember
19:54:33[Saint]*a wild funman appears*
19:54:33saratoga_well we now have amsv2 more or less complete figured out
19:54:46saratoga_i think someone got 30 hours runtime on clip :)
19:55:35funmani'd guess we tried with a fixed number of iterations loop and it worked for all frequencies at the time?
19:55:58saratoga_yeah, theres still some ugly fixed cycle delays in the amsv1 drivers
19:56:35saratoga_the switching logic we ended up using for amsv2 is a bit different too if i can still remember that long ago
19:56:51saratoga_weirdly, it seemed to be more stable if we cranked up pclk really high
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20:01:04[Saint]what's AMSV1 again?
20:01:19[Saint]Fuze/Fuze V2, yeah?
20:01:53saratoga_not v2
20:02:00funmanclipv1, m200v4, c200vX
20:02:10saratoga_fuzev1 too
20:02:27saratoga_also slot radio!
20:02:35[Saint]I have a couple of busted Fuzes, of varying description, and many disassembled ones, that could quite possible be used to cobble together 3 or 4 working ones.
20:02:38saratoga_i think ?
20:02:51saratoga_ask if Mihail wants one :)
20:02:52funman[Saint]: i have a bunch too :)
20:02:58[Saint]I bet! :)
20:02:59saratoga_i think you have one of mine :)
20:03:20funmani'm not using my last clip that much because the jack plug gets loose and headphones don't work :/
20:03:36[Saint]they're fundamentally flawed.
20:03:42funmansaratoga_: hmm i wonder if yours is the single one that's still working
20:03:49[Saint]IIRC it's not so much a "socket" per se.
20:04:05[Saint]As it is a hole, with some bar connections that grab it, loosely at that.
20:04:13saratoga_probably lose solder
20:04:35saratoga_i need to keep an eye out if any more show up online, i should get some spares
20:05:00[Saint]you could probably add an actual proper 3.5mm jack with little effort.
20:05:18saratoga_the headphone jacks on mine are fine at least
20:05:23saratoga_batteries are getting a bit old
20:05:27[Saint]I recall seeing someone add a 7.5mm jack to one.
20:06:12[Saint]though now I rethink it it may have been external.
20:08:50 Nick krnlyng_ is now known as krnlyng (~liar@
20:15:13 Join Mihail [0] (b03cb034@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
20:15:29MihailYes, I can try do that for AMS1 if someone can send me player ;)
20:16:22funman - what is the Clip Jam ?
20:16:28 Join girafe [0] (
20:17:16[Saint]funman: from what we know - nothing interesting.
20:17:22funmanJust found
20:17:23[Saint]see also: Clip Sport(?)
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20:17:46[Saint]As far as we know it wouldn't ever be able to run Rockbox in its current form.
20:17:55funmani bought a Clip Sport but gave it away after reading the forums ;)
20:17:58[Saint]I'm not even entirely certain how they're managing to do their UI.
20:18:23bluebrothermagic! ;-)
20:18:25[Saint]a fullscreen bitmap should overflow its resources IIUC. Maybe the LCD does its own caching? I dunno.
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20:19:38saratoga_its possible it has more ram, like the clipv1 did
20:19:53saratoga_we thought it only had 320KB of ram, but then there was more on the package
20:20:04saratoga_but i doubt it since i think the SOC has no DRAM controller at all
20:21:50[Saint]effectively, we need 2MB minimum, right?
20:26:00saratoga_yeah about 2 MB is a good idea
20:26:12saratoga_maybe a little less if a monochrome screen
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20:27:04gevaertsWasn't the c200v2 a bit marginal with 2MB and colour?
20:27:18gevaertsSo I'd say 2MB for monochrome, a bit more (3?) for colour
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20:29:50saratoga_yeah, the clipv1 and c200v2 found all kinds of problems in our buffering engine
20:30:04saratoga_and they can't play formats like aac-he due to lack of memory
20:30:48[Saint]even if it had the memory, would it have the processing power for realtime there?
20:31:13[Saint]c200 specifically
20:32:12saratoga_c200v2 is amsv1, same as fuzev1
20:32:17saratoga_so its pretty fast
20:32:21saratoga_i think aac-he works
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20:47:52[Saint]Does this android toolchain stuff I'm working on belong in
20:48:09[Saint]Keeping in mind we're not compiling anything?
20:48:17[Saint]Or, should I keep it standalone?
20:50:08 Quit saratoga_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
20:50:46bluebrotherI'd say it depends. Is it similar to what does or completely different?
20:50:49gevaerts[Saint]: as in it downloads the stuff and installs it in a (preferrably configurable) place?
20:50:59[Saint]it does.
20:51:32gevaertsIf so, I think it can go in to keep things simple for the user
20:51:54gevaertsOr if not, should be able to call the other one
20:52:20gevaertsThat might be easier for developing the thing
20:52:52[Saint]That was my initial thinking, but I had a slight setback with that thinking when it was pointed out to me that it would perhaps make it unclear what parts of what were coming from who.
20:53:06[Saint]But I guess I could just spit out a message to the effect.
20:53:08bluebrotherI meant similar as in implementation :)
20:53:28bluebrotherbut having output a message or call the other thing for Android sounds like a good idea :)
20:53:52[Saint]I just didn't want to blur any lines as to where the toolchain was coming from.
20:54:02[Saint]but, yeah, I guess you're right.
20:54:22[Saint]I think I'll keep it standalone, but abe to be called as a function of
20:54:42[Saint], even.
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20:55:03gevaertsBrickbox, I'd call it! :)
20:55:07[Saint]dumping it all into would be possible, but require some refactoring.
20:55:13bluebrothernot brickdroid? ;-)
20:55:49gevaertsbluebrother: with enough motivation, we can brick *anything*!
20:56:19*gevaerts gets his hammer
20:58:18bluebrotherhmm, /me thinks about GoldenQuotes
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21:01:48fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 1015088 result: 16 errors 24 warnings
21:09:22[Saint]On the topic of bricking things, and android, I'm pretty confident I could silently exploit everything from GB to JB.
21:09:32[Saint]The real issue would be getting it through review. ;)
21:10:03[Saint]making sure it's a ahrd brick would be the hard part.
21:10:21[Saint]softbricking would be trivial.
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21:53:41edhelas[Saint], still here ?
21:55:37 Quit thum (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
21:55:43edhelasI have a small question for you, you know if there's way to get a global overview of what's coming on the GPIO of pp5020 ?
21:56:57[Saint]I do not, sorry.
21:57:17edhelasok :)
22:00:26 Quit rela (Quit: Leaving)
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23:06:15prof_wolfffbluebrother [Saint]: (logs) nice to read talks about the bootloader :), i think there are 4 different topics: RB, BL, mk6gboot, rbutilqt. ATM i am using the "bundle" patch to advance on all things because still they are related, the planning is to separate them soon, i am working on patch-set-8 and hope to be the last that affects the whole thing, then split into the main 4 topics, then extract small patches intended to be commited
23:07:00prof_wolfffabout BL, honestly i think ATM it is not such unstable, i am new on RB and really dont know about past RB development (i.e. the difference between unusable and unstable), i am simply looking at the state of other targets and not much more, so please be patient and tell me the things i miss
23:07:34prof_wolfff[Saint]: can not imagine what are these "fancy" things the BL does, it is true that there a are a few things to pullish but discarding the "devel menu" i thing that ATM it does what it _needs_ to do, note that ipod6g target behaves in a different way that other targets do, there are many ways to implement if it is the case, please tell me about this on detail
23:07:55 Join suYin [0] (
23:08:19[Saint]prof_wolfff: hey man, thanks, if you're patient I'll address the points you raise.
23:08:26edhelas[Saint], I've discover a bit more stuff !
23:08:31prof_wolfffabout RB, actually it implements more features than other targets, but it needs some work on charging and battery, maybe the USB driver (but i need some feedback about the latest commited patches on USB charge limit), there are some workarounds on hold switch and charger detection but it seems they are working well, in future it is planned a thread to poll the PMU and "solve" these issues and support for HP-jack remote and IAP FM r
23:08:51[Saint]On the topic of my statement that your bootloader "isn't ready yet", I am aware that it is functional, and I use it myself, and it works fine.
23:09:01[Saint]However, it has only really been used by a tiny handful of people.
23:09:05edhelasthe little connector next to the jack one is a serial port, and it's also part of the IAP protocol, which is implemented in Rockbox
23:09:21[Saint]Regarding "fancy bootloaders", I was referring to emCORE specifically at that stage.
23:09:47[Saint]Though realistically the only thing a bootloader should so is boot, and offer a USB connection if it can not do so.
23:09:57edhelasbut it seems that the guy that had made the IAP implementation in Rockbox only implement it for the "dock" connector
23:10:00[Saint]In line with our other bootloaders.
23:10:07prof_wolffftrue it is not much tested, but we cant do anything on that :(
23:10:10edhelasso I need to find a way to enable it for this one too :)
23:10:19[Saint]The current iPod bootloaders is the model you should be aiming for.
23:10:36[Saint]A user should never see it unless something has gone fundamentally wrong.
23:10:52[Saint](ie. missing rockbox.ipod, or /.rockbox)
23:11:32prof_wolfffwe talk about that in the past, to split the "devel menu" in other patch is a matter of minutes
23:11:32[Saint]prof_wolfff: what you should do is open a thread in our unsupported builds section on the forum.
23:11:43[Saint]I could make the thread sticky for you if you would like.
23:11:54[Saint]This would help to gain exposure for your work.
23:13:01[Saint]My personal opinion on the topic is that the bootloader has no business offering anything except a means to boot Rockbox, and a USB recovery if a boot error is encountered.
23:13:24[Saint]If a user wants a "fancy" bootloader, emCORE exists.
23:13:46[Saint]The mainline ipodg6 bootloader should perform the bare minimum of necessary functions.
23:14:25prof_wolfffwell, actually it is what it does (once removed the devel menu)
23:14:48[Saint]Yes. The development menu is all I really take issue with.
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23:15:47[Saint]Basically, the user should never have to see or interact with the bootloader at all, unless something has gone very wrong in the boot process.
23:16:25prof_wolfffif it is the only issue, it is no problem, i will separate it on a new patch for devels who needs it
23:16:26[Saint]in which case the only thing they should see is a message instructing them of the error encountered and prompting them to insert USB to fix it.
23:17:10[Saint]you could look at the existing ipod bootloaders for how bootloader USB and the error message display is formatted.
23:17:33[Saint]I feel it should be familiar to anyone who has ever used Rockbox on an iPod other than the ipod6g before.
23:18:31prof_wolfffactually it tries to behave as iPod Video, hold-switch is used to enter OF
23:18:53[Saint]it should really be hold switch or _any_ button held during boot.
23:19:11[Saint]that's how the others behave. Toggling the hold switch is awful.
23:19:17prof_wolfffthe battery trap is needed on classic
23:19:37[Saint]I don't really think it is.
23:19:44[Saint]It'll charge when powered down entirely.
23:19:51[Saint]albeit slowly.
23:20:01prof_wolfffi really dont like the hold-switch way, it is easy to add _any_ button
23:20:22*[Saint] nods
23:20:44[Saint]The way the current ipod bootloaders behave is they'll boot the OF if hold is toggled, or any button is held during boot.
23:21:06[Saint]To be honest I would like to remove the hold switch detection from the bootloaders.
23:21:13[Saint]It is bloody annoying for the other ipods.
23:21:43[Saint](if hold is on, and the device plugged, it'll boot the OF - The Classic is the only supported iPod that won't boot on power)
23:21:55prof_wolfffyes, but what to do it the user powers-up the device, at least it should be detected and do something, actually it charges at 500mA, it is planned in the future for the bootloader to detect 100/500mA, even 1000mA if USB charger is detected
23:21:58[Saint] that I think about it, breaks "Car Mode" completely.
23:22:51prof_wolfffactually it boots when USB is inserted, see latest commits on HEAD
23:24:38[Saint]Aha, so it does. So...hmm, that does make things interesting.
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23:26:46prof_wolfffabout mk6gboot, it is working for me on linux and windows, needs OS X support, i am void on OS X but wonder if it is already supported on some latest OS X version usblib-1.0
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23:27:51prof_wolfffabout rbutilqt, again it is working well for me, there are some nasty hacks, started to separate things that are needed for the current installer and i think that might be commited, or to talk about them if not, i am very glad to see that bluebrother commited some stuff, bootloader installation for classic is more interactive than other targets but i am sure that with the help of bluebrother it is going to work fine in future
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