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#rockbox log for 2016-03-13

00:25:48 Join PurlingNayuki [0] (~Thunderbi@
00:33:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:02:15 Nick opal is now known as sosueme (
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03:01:18 Join Milardo [0] (1805b463@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
03:02:35MilardoHi, i've checked the release list of builds for sony nwz players but can't find one for mine which is nwz-e353
03:03:26Milardoanybody know happen to know if it will get supported?
03:05:58[Saint]It might. Perhaps some time between now and possibly never.
03:06:10[Saint]That's about the closest to realistic statement anyone can offer.
03:10:29Milardowell anybody here who works on the sony ports?
03:11:55Milardoor do any of the sony ports compatible with mine?
03:13:16[Saint]You would probably want to talk to pamaury about this. I'm not confident he has this hardware, which would be a limiting factor.
03:13:17[Saint]The guts of it is, basically, that if you want it to happen in any reasonable amount of time you should be looking towards pretending that no one else exists and doing it all yourself entirely.
03:14:26Milardoi guess its really hard to do that?
03:15:23[Saint] will give you some idea.
03:15:34[Saint]The wording of it seems harsh, but it is realistic.
03:16:28Milardotoo hard for me
03:16:52[Saint]It was too hard for everyone until they learned the skills to allow them to do so. ;)
03:16:59[Saint]No one was born knowing these things.
03:17:18Milardoright but i have only one player like this
03:17:27Milardoand id rather not take it apart
03:17:51Milardoif it is just software stuff maybe
03:18:19[Saint]Well, one needs to know what they are dealing with in the hardware department first.
03:19:06[Saint]Another option would be supplying the hardware to a willing developer, but that also comes with no guarantees. Its a hobby project, such is its nature.
03:19:39Milardook thanks for the info
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20:38:28 Join [Saint] [0] (~hayden@rockbox/staff/saint)
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20:55:19fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision e0a4dc5, 255 builds, 24 clients.
21:04:35 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
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21:07:46fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 746 seconds.
21:07:46fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision e0a4dc5 result: 0 errors 111 warnings
21:10:44[Saint]How the?
21:11:15[Saint]How the hell does a comment trigger 111 warnings?
21:15:34[Saint]'Revision e0a4dc5 result: 0 errors 111 warnings'
21:16:26[Saint]That commit alters no code paths at all, so, I'm more than a little confused as to how that can happen.
21:16:32b0hoonit's from new gcc i suppose not mine
21:18:03b0hoonyou scared me :)
21:21:47 Quit sLite (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
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21:34:42pamauryit's probably just that the compiler from one of the build clients prints a lot of warnings, it's not related to the commit
21:37:16b0hoonwith gcc 5.3.1 (503)
21:46:36 Join JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
21:48:35fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 2c7bb67, 255 builds, 24 clients.
21:49:00 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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21:59:23fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 647 seconds.
21:59:24fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 2c7bb67 result: 0 errors 204 warnings
22:00:29[Saint]I am somewhat surprised that the build system doesn't enforce a very strict set of versioning criteria for the dependent tool set.
22:00:52[Saint]Having this whole "any verion'll do as long as it compiles in the end" system is a bit odd.
22:02:13[Saint]pamaury: I noticed a comment from you in one of the commits - did you want/require the Rockbox MIPS toolchain by any chance?
22:02:33[Saint]I have 64 bit toolchains for all targets pre-packaged.
22:03:14pamauryno that's fine, I just gave up using the toolchain from and I'm using the one prepackaged in debian repositories
22:03:30pamaurythe one we are using is just completely outdated, we should update it
22:05:19 Quit rela (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
22:06:09[Saint]What are your feelings about the other point raised regarding dependent tools? Is it worth me looking in to strict versioning checks? It's something I've been thinking about for a while but it involves a lot of coordination and decisions on what constitutes an acceptable version.
22:06:28[Saint]I kinda tend to think it is worth it in the end but there's a lot of fuckery involved to get it working initially.
22:11:27[Saint]The idea of a distributed build system where anyone can bring any tools or toolchains to the party as long as the end result doesn't error out seems ...I dunno. Weird to me.
22:12:46[Saint]It hasn't really created any problems in the past that weren't trivially fixable by simply temporarily disabling a specific client or clients, but if it would be useful and not too overly restrictive for everyone to be on the same page then the required work to implement it isn't too daunting for me.
22:13:10pamauryour build systems allows from some range of versions, it also crucially depends on the default flags of the compiler, I'm not sure if it's really worth it but if you can get everyone who has a build client to agree on this that can't hurt I guess
22:13:36pamauryexcept it's annoying to have multiple redundant toolchains because of rockbox
22:15:24 Quit krabador (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:15:30[Saint]I guess the really difficult part lies in getting everyone to agree on the base requirements.
22:15:52pamaurymaybe the first part would be to gather information ?
22:16:01 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador)
22:16:04[Saint]I think, in general, if we can rely on toolchains packed from $distribution, that would be very desirable.
22:16:05pamauryask everyone who has a build client to report the toolchains details
22:16:41b0hoon[Saint]: The code pointed by new gcc indeed looks strange and iilogical and should be fixed IMO
22:16:53[Saint]armeabi and MIPS should be doable on a large scale from $distribution packaged toolchains
22:17:02[Saint]Not sure about any of the more esoteric ones.
22:17:26b0hoonI'll try to do it but not now
22:17:30pamaurybut not everyone has the same distribution, also the packged version may change from time to time
22:18:18[Saint]Yes. This is true. I'm somewhat willing to bet that most of us are on some form of debian-esque distribution, though. And package pinning exists.
22:21:19[Saint]But, pamaury is quite right. This all starts with asking build client operators to do full version reporting of their build systems and seeing exactly how wide a range we're dealing with.
22:22:27pamauryyou're right that version pinning with would work well, assuming debian of course. I guess we could arrange so that the prepackaged version fits in the range and everyone agrees to use it
22:29:41pamauryhow do we have the list of clients ?
22:30:07[Saint]AFAIK, we don't. Which is another problem.
22:30:35gevaertsThere's a mailing list build client admins are supposed to be on
22:30:59gevaertss/are supposed to/might/ :)
22:31:18[Saint]If this did eventuate, we'd have to just disable all the clients that didn't meet the requirements and rely on them eventually figuring it out or checking their mail.
22:32:43 Part b0hoon ("GTG... Bye.")
22:32:49gevaertsIf you want to check, is probably the right place
22:33:32[Saint]right - yeah, I was just actually writing something to that effect.
22:33:58[Saint]I wouldn't want to step on the build system as a whole and force developers into using a specific tool set and having to hack their way out of it.
22:34:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:34:17[Saint]I only want the hard versioning requirements to affect the build clients.
22:34:45gevaertsAs far as I remember, back in the day the variation there was seen as a bonus
22:35:09[Saint]Hmmm...well, yeah, I guess I can see that.
22:36:11[Saint]I guess it helps that we're not running on any critical systems, or when we do, we have no networking ability.
22:37:21[Saint]so there's no real need to care about avoiding known exploitable tool versions. And I guess I can see why it would be desirable to know it builds across a wide range of variables.
22:40:24gevaertsHmm, who wrote that code?
22:40:59gevaertsHave you looked at those new warnings? :)
22:41:09[Saint]ah, yes.
22:41:13gevaertsI'd *thank* that new gcc
22:41:32pamauryare we talking about some plugin by chance ?
22:41:44pamaurysome of them are just horrible
22:42:42[Saint]I would honestly give zero fucks if we just ousted them all except for test_* plugins
22:42:48gevaertsThe code works *because* the precedence is wrong
22:43:29gevaertsIf it did what the author thought it does, that function would always error out
22:43:53[Saint]All the plugins are basically gimmicks or weird ridiculously difficult to use kludges based around a situation most people are going to avoid like the plague.
22:44:19[Saint]No one in their right mind is going to deliberately use any of the editor plugins or anything that revolves around the use of the virtual keyboard.
22:44:25 Quit petur (Quit: Leaving)
22:44:41gevaertsSo how do we fix it? Take out that entire if block so the behaviour is what it always was, but without misleading code and fun warnings, or try to fix it properly without testing and risk breaking the plugin?
22:46:22[Saint]I take it we're talking about Goban?
22:47:42[Saint]'rm -rf /plugins/*' ought to do it.
22:48:18gevaertsThat's against the license terms :)
22:48:49gevaertsYou have to keep credits.c!
22:49:49gevaertsI think just removing the obviously broken lines is the best way forward
22:52:57fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision b58b9c2, 255 builds, 23 clients.
22:53:03*gevaerts hopes it compiles :)
22:53:42[Saint]Build Server message: Revision b58b9c2 result: 0 errors 164897 warnings
22:56:09gevaertsBy the way, if you're ever not sure about operator precedence, *add parentheses*
22:56:52gevaertsAt least that way you'll find out that the slightly higher level logic is totally broken :)
22:57:18 Join PurlingNayuki [0] (~Thunderbi@
22:59:20gevaertsHmmm, I'm not sure now about the fix now...
23:04:40*gevaerts pushes a probably better but possibly worse fix
23:05:01[Saint]why hasn't that build even returned yet?
23:05:06[Saint]or did bluebot die?
23:05:12gevaertsBecause it's not done yet
23:05:17fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 740 seconds.
23:05:18fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision b58b9c2 result: 0 errors 6 warnings
23:05:19fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 2292782, 255 builds, 23 clients.
23:05:26[Saint]ah, there we go.
23:05:39[Saint]Did some of the beefier clients fall off the roster?
23:06:23gevaertsProbably, petur left, so it seems likely that his client also left
23:06:38gevaertsWhich is annoying, as that was the one that gave the warnings :)
23:07:11gevaertsI'm not really awake enough to wade through the subtle side effects of that read_char_no_whitespace() function combined with lazy evaluation and misunderstood precedence, so I hope that whoever likes playing goban will complain if I did it wrong
23:07:59[Saint]Where's Lee Sedol when you need 'em?
23:08:47gevaertsCelebrating, probably :)
23:13:08 Quit FSanches (Quit: Leaving.)
23:14:39 Quit Horscht (Quit: quit)
23:17:29fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 731 seconds.
23:17:30fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 2292782 result: 0 errors 7 warnings
23:20:09 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
23:20:51gevaertsI don't see where that other warning is
23:21:26 Join Strife89 [0] (
23:26:52 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 45.0/20160303134406])

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