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#rockbox log for 2016-03-28

00:00:31fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 7ba50cf, 255 builds, 12 clients.
00:01:57*gevaerts blocks atom270-zagor for now
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00:19:14fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 1124 seconds.
00:19:15fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 7ba50cf result: 5 errors 99 warnings
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10:15:01Mihaillebellium: ping
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10:34:36Mihail lebellium: I have test build for you:
10:43:04relado you think there will be new players supported by rockbox in the future?
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15:32:49[Saint]rela: that depends - are you planning on adding support for any?
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17:48:18lebelliumMihail: thanks. I'll try it tonight
17:50:54lebelliumyou fixed something in the voltage scaling patch?
17:54:31saratogaMihail: that build crashed for me on Clipv2 and Clip+
17:54:35saratogasorry, the committed one
17:54:38saratoganot the one you just linked
17:54:53saratogai think we broke something over the last month
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17:57:22saratogaport to that new JZ player i've never heard of looks quite well done
17:57:38saratogaanyone familiar with mips want to look at it? almost everything looks clean to me, but i don't know the platform
17:58:35[Saint]wodz, perhaps gevaerts.
17:58:46gevaertsuh, no
17:59:02*gevaerts isn't familiar with *any* low-level stuff
17:59:21[Saint]I guess the MIPS android hosted client doesn't count huh? :)
17:59:33gevaertsYes, I *can* add compiler flags
17:59:50Mihailsaratoga: can you try remove ascodec_write_pmu(0x17, 1, 0x80 | 22); and check again clip+ and clip v2?
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18:09:59saratogaMihail: yes that works
18:10:03saratogai'm really confused
18:10:10saratogalower voltages were fine back in january
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18:11:45Mihailat which conditions you have crash?
18:12:16saratogaa second or two after start the screen freezes
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18:12:29saratogait stays showing the last thing it was doing but the player has to be hard reset
18:14:07saratogadropping the voltage to 1.1v seems ok
18:14:25Mihailcan you try bigger (100 or 200) udelay after ascodec_write_pmu(0x17, 1, 0x80 | 47); ?
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18:32:26saratogaMihail: still hangs with 250 us delay
18:34:43Mihailcan you check 3f54101858210c921e6d0039f29f649459a9a1a9 with enabled voltage scaling?
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18:47:11saratogaMihail: yes that works, voltage drops to 875 mV but the player keeps running fine
18:48:11saratoga(watched on the debug menu)
18:48:59Mihailok, try add to this build gui boost
18:55:39saratogaee567d8 crashes with voltage scaling, but it seems like only when i press buttons
18:59:20Mihail 3f541018 + voltage scaling + gui boost also crashes?
19:00:45saratoga123346b works, so yes I think it is GUI boost
19:00:51saratogamaybe there is a race condition there?
19:03:15Mihailcan you check without udelay at all?
19:03:16pamauryI am slightly annoyed by this Xduoo X3 port, the guy never asked anything, I said I was working on the Fiio X1 which is based on the same processor and now it means I either I have to throw away my jz4760b code or rewrite his
19:06:18 Join TheEaterOfSouls [0] (~chatzilla@
19:06:41pamaurya lot of code seems to be copy and paste from randomy available code for the jz4760b, mostly GPL, but he didn't keep the original credits
19:07:43pamauryalso I will have to triple check jz4760b.h because there are plenty of different versions on the internet which are all wrong, which is why I wanted to use proper register headers from the start
19:08:28saratogaMihail: freezes almost immediately without the delay
19:09:23saratogai'm a little confused here, i tested boosting extensively on this device playing APE files and it was completely stable
19:09:39saratogai'm not sure how boosting from the button code is somehow less stable then from the buffering code
19:10:57[Saint]pamaury: basically - fuck that guy.
19:11:30[Saint]If they can live in their own little ecosystem, fuck 'em.
19:11:32[Saint]let them.
19:11:44Mihailcan you check 3f541018 + voltage scaling + gui boost?
19:12:08pamauryI don't know, I don't want to spend a wrong message here, but it's just quite frustrating
19:12:48 Join nlogex [0] (
19:13:29[Saint]pamaury: IMO the message was quite clear from the start on their part.
19:15:26[Saint]it might be time to have the "are you really sure you want to call that Rockbox after having actually given nothing to the community" talk.
19:16:01[Saint]Call me a pessimist, I guess.
19:16:49[Saint]Perhaps I read the situation wrong entirely but I never really got the feeling that he was interested in working /with/ Rockbox at all. More alongside.
19:17:50[Saint]Then that whole business with the first build seemed to cement that. I hope I'm wrong, honestly.
19:22:55MihailI think we just should told to him whats wrong and ask if he can fix it.
19:41:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:42:44Mihailsaratoga: I use frequency and voltage scaling with g#1270 on both my zip and it seems very stable. Can you try latest git + #1270 on clip+ and clipv2?
19:42:46fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1270 at : as3525: reverting I2C2 to non-interrupts version by Mihail Zenkov
19:44:46Mihailwe use I2C2 to switch voltage so it can be related
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20:02:08saratogaMihail: that does seem to fix the problem for me
20:02:15saratogaany idea why ?
20:02:45saratoga[Saint]: i think we should try to be polite, he may just not know how open projects are run
20:03:24[Saint]saratoga: well - as nicely as one can say "fuck this noise", I guess.
20:03:54saratogawe should encourage people to get involved with open source projects whenever possible
20:04:23[Saint]I can't see any way we could've possibly failed to do so.
20:04:42[Saint]To me the ommission seems deliberate, but, I want to be wrong.
20:05:34[Saint]Sometimes being the pessimist isn't that fun. I really do want to be wrong. I just can't fathom what anyone could've done "more right".
20:05:38saratogamy guess is he was concerned about looking unprofessional by pushing out code early
20:05:46saratogawhich is not how it actually works, but people may not realize that
20:07:12[Saint]The unfortunate thing is how mature things are in his tree, and Rockbox's.
20:07:46[Saint]If they merge, there's either going to be a lot of duplication, or someone's gonna get real pissed off about having to re-invent the wheel again.
20:09:55Mihailsaratoga: which build works "3f541018 + voltage scaling + gui boost" or latest git with g#1270?
20:09:56fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1270 at : as3525: reverting I2C2 to non-interrupts version by Mihail Zenkov
20:10:01pamauryMaybe we can suggest an alternative: I will do the Fiio X1 port, the way I planned to do it: custom register headers and not reusing the jz47xx code (which is JZ4740 specific anyway), then I can merge his code and keep his copyright if he wants to
20:10:36[Saint]can we merge his shit with stripped attribution?
20:10:39saratogaMihail: current git + voltage scaling + g1270
20:10:40fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1270 at : as3525: reverting I2C2 to non-interrupts version by Mihail Zenkov
20:11:01Mihailon both players?
20:11:16saratoga[Saint]: if its a problem you can ask him to put it back before commit
20:11:30saratogaMihail: i only tried clip+, but that was always the one that gave the most trouble
20:11:35saratogai will test zip now
20:11:59[Saint]saratoga: IFF he has a clear chain of attribution and didn't just squash it all.
20:12:08[Saint]the latter would be non-fun to talk about.
20:12:09 Quit girafe3 (Read error: Connection timed out)
20:12:15*pamaury now realize that it's a real pain in the *** when you don't have the datasheet of a ddr ram and you need to reverse engineer all the timings...
20:12:33saratoga[Saint]: theres not that many files to track down
20:12:47saratogathese are manageable annoyances
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20:13:24Mihailsaratoga: if you can find clip v1 we can do all test and commit g#1270
20:13:25fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1270 at : as3525: reverting I2C2 to non-interrupts version by Mihail Zenkov
20:13:44saratogaMihail: sorry i forgot to search for it
20:14:00pamauryhonestly I don't care that much about my own copyright but some of the code looks suspicously similar the GPL code released by Ingenic, for once a manufacturer releases some (albeit crappy) code, maybe erasing the copyright is not a very smart move
20:14:24saratogaby the way, i asked funman if he could look for my old fuzev1 and send to you if he can find it
20:14:49[Saint]hope it hasn't bred with any of his in the meantime.
20:17:51saratogaMihail: zip seems to be working fine
20:18:12saratogamaybe someone here has an AMSv1 device to test the i2c changes on?
20:20:00TheEaterOfSoulsI have a Clip v1 but I'm not very familiar with Rockbox development
20:22:14saratogaTheEaterOfSouls: i can make a test build if you want to try it
20:22:48MihailTheEaterOfSouls: good. I provide test build for you.
20:22:49TheEaterOfSoulsI can't test the changes by installing from git?
20:23:21TheEaterOfSoulsAs in latest development build installed with Rockbox Utility?
20:23:28saratogano its not committed yet
20:23:30TheEaterOfSoulsSorry guys I know nothing
20:23:35saratogawe want to make sure it works before committing
20:24:39saratogaby the way, it might not be a bad idea to test on fuzev1/e200v2 if possible since they'll also be affected
20:30:07saratogaMihail: here is a build for the clipv1 with the i2c patch if that is what you want tested:
20:30:26lebelliumI can test on fuze v1 but not before next sunday
20:32:20TheEaterOfSoulsIs this the build I should test also?
20:32:37MihailTheEaterOfSouls: you should check is charging work
20:34:07Mihailalso check "system > debug > view i/o ports" is it show voltages
20:34:18TheEaterOfSoulsJust AC charging or charging and data?
20:34:34TheEaterOfSoulsSorry I'm blind, I can't see anything in the debug menu
20:34:40saratogaMihail: voltage scaling is disabled in that build (like in our git builds)
20:35:43Mihailin any case it was for AMSv2, but we should check ADC on AMSv1
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20:37:37MihailTheEaterOfSouls: you should connect and disconnect charging few times to check is charging detection work
20:38:27saratogaif you could also generally let us know if everything still works normally that would be nice (no crashes hopefully)
20:40:12sansaiAhoi. My Sansa Clip+ seems to be dying, esp. the internal flash (if it boots, I eventually get "could not write sector" panics). Is it possible to install Rockbox to a microSD card and boot from that?
20:40:16TheEaterOfSoulsCharging behavior is normal
20:40:45TheEaterOfSoulsWill play some FLAC and MP3 files
20:40:57TheEaterOfSoulsAnything else specific you'd like me to test?
20:42:21Mihailis usb also work?
20:42:41TheEaterOfSoulsYes, it's showing up as usual
20:42:55TheEaterOfSoulsCurrently copying files to it
20:43:02TheEaterOfSoulsHasn't been used in a long time
20:46:27Mihailok, thanks!
20:49:53Mihailsaratoga: I think we can wait lebellium with fuze v1. In any case I want fix build without charging before commit.
20:51:23lebelliumI haven't charged it for a while so I hope it's still working fine :D
20:52:45MihailI hope too :)
20:54:47lebelliumI just noticed that's my only AMSv1 device. My E200v1, C200v1 and Clipv2 are not....
21:01:53TheEaterOfSoulsMy Clip v1 only has 2GB of storage, not very useful
21:06:33TheEaterOfSoulsAlso I get CPU noise through the earphone jack when it's connected to my computer as a disk
21:06:50TheEaterOfSoulsCould be a problem with my specific player though
21:09:56lebelliumCPU noise is a common issue on Clip
21:11:31[Saint]s/Clip/Pretty much any SanDisk player/
21:11:39[Saint](like, seriously - uuugh)
21:11:45TheEaterOfSoulsI don't believe I've ever experienced it before on this player
21:12:12TheEaterOfSoulsEverything else I've used is AS3525v2
21:12:15[Saint]On most of mine you can hear CPU switching and NAND access.
21:12:29[Saint]But perhaps because I have some very sensitive IEMs?
21:12:38[Saint]I'm fairly willing to bet lebellium does too.
21:12:47TheEaterOfSoulsThat has to be annoying :(
21:13:19[Saint]One of the many reasons my "daily driver" is a solid state ipod6g.
21:13:31TheEaterOfSoulsLike I said though I only hear it when connected
21:14:27lebelliumyes, with my Westone UM3x (124dB - 56 Ohms) I can hear CPU noise on many Sansa players
21:14:46lebelliumNAND access mostly
21:14:52*[Saint] nodsd
21:16:05[Saint]Mine are "fancier", his waaaaay more sensitive. Both apparenty fairly agile at hunting down hardware interference noises, though.
21:16:40lebelliumthe most recent ones got better though. There is a huge difference between E200 and Clip Zip for instance
21:16:45[Saint]If I plug one in to my terrible PC desk speakers I can't hear squat.
21:17:04TheEaterOfSoulsMakes sense
21:17:05[Saint]So it definitely seems to be a "sensitive monitor" thing.
21:17:20TheEaterOfSoulsI mainly only use my Zip and have never heard it
21:17:40[Saint]bargain basement IEMs?
21:18:09TheEaterOfSoulsUsually over-the-ear
21:18:27TheEaterOfSoulsBlue Microphone Mo-Fi
21:18:30TheEaterOfSoulsSo not really
21:18:56[Saint]I don't have a Zip.
21:19:07[Saint]Perhaps lebellium can enlighten us if it happens there also.
21:19:15TheEaterOfSoulsIt's never been an issue on my Plus either
21:19:58[Saint]Ah. Odd. Very odd. Sometimes it seems so bad to me on Clip+ that it sounds like my NAND is trying to tap out the lyrics in Morse.
21:20:23lebellium[Saint]: my Zip is currently connected over USB. I just plugged my UM3x and heard some terrible noise :)
21:20:51[Saint]Aha. Well, there's that, then.
21:21:44[Saint]I like my SanDisk players for doing stuff when having 35kg of iPod on my pocket isn't feasible.
21:21:53[Saint]...but they're just soooooooooooooooooooo shit.
21:22:06[Saint]I literally can not get over how dirty and shitty they sound.
21:22:42lebelliumI disagree here. Depending on the models there is more or less CPU noise and/or output hiss but the sound quality is fine I think
21:22:51[Saint](note: 35kg iPod is a sliiiiiight exaggeration - they only weigh about 27.5kg)
21:23:17[Saint]lebellium: "CPU noise and/or output hiss but the sound quality is fine"
21:23:27[Saint]to me, those words in that order don't belong in any sentence. :)
21:23:31lebelliumyes, these are different things
21:23:32gevaerts[Saint]: you need your *entire* ipod collection to match the sound of one sansa? :)
21:23:57lebelliumI you get an headphone or less sensitives IEMs, the SQ is fine
21:24:03[Saint]lebellium: I guess I look at "sound quality" holistically, then.
21:24:11TheEaterOfSoulsDon't the iPods use actually HDDs?
21:24:26[Saint]Mine did before I got done with 'em.
21:24:36TheEaterOfSoulsYeah not for me then
21:24:36gevaertsNot the nanos
21:24:41TheEaterOfSoulsSometimes I take mine running
21:25:01TheEaterOfSoulsShock isn't good for them
21:25:19TheEaterOfSouls8GB Zip and 120 MicroSD card does it for me
21:25:29TheEaterOfSoulsEverything in FLAC
21:25:29[Saint]There's a large skip buffer anyway, and you're only going to be reading from disk every ~40 minutes.
21:26:06[Saint]disc access doesn't happen as much as you might think when you've got ~60MB of RAm free.
21:26:14TheEaterOfSoulsWouldn't it take forever to load an album then?
21:26:33[Saint]Not at all.
21:27:02[Saint]I was assuming lossy in my ~40m estimate, though.
21:27:12lebellium[Saint]: I guess sound quality is more about soundstage, clarity and things like that than about CPU noise or hiss that most people won't experience
21:27:13[Saint]lossless codecs cut that down a fair bit.
21:27:39[Saint]lebellium: to me it is the some of all things that make the whole here.
21:27:56[Saint]faithful reproduction isn't worth a shit to me if the audio path is noisey as Hell.
21:27:58lebelliumthen I can understand you don't like the Sansas :)
21:28:15[Saint]*sum of all things
21:28:21[Saint]...words are hard.
21:29:24lebelliumbut you should try the Zip
21:29:31lebelliumit's quite cleaner than the older sansas!
21:29:42[Saint]TheEaterOfSouls: you likely couldn't do it yourself, due to physical impairments, but I happen to think a solid state converted ipod6g is the queen's tits.
21:29:48TheEaterOfSoulsIf you can obtain one, they're hella expensive now
21:30:11TheEaterOfSoulsDepends on how it's assembled
21:30:21[Saint]Such is life. I snapped up a bunch of the players I liked when we all predicted DAPs dying here years ago.
21:30:26[Saint]Sadly, we were all right.
21:30:37[Saint]Smartphone killed the DAP star.
21:30:41TheEaterOfSoulsI built my desktop but needed some help aligning the motherboard inside the case, front panel etc
21:31:18[Saint]Yeah, fiddly little flatcables that'll crack their traces if you even look at them the wrong was or say a curse word within earshot probably aren't for you.
21:31:27[Saint]Though you know you better than I.
21:31:30TheEaterOfSoulsYeah I grabbed some up too, have 3 Zips (one with a cracked screen and bad jack) and two Plus's
21:31:43[Saint]I really wish I was exaggerating about how fragile Apple's ribbons are.
21:31:52[Saint]They implode if a sparrow farts nearby.
21:31:54TheEaterOfSoulsYou're probably right
21:32:28[Saint]There's a bunch of people selling them pre-solid-state-ified, though.
21:32:33[Saint]But, at a premium.
21:32:54TheEaterOfSoulsYeah don't think that's for me
21:33:01TheEaterOfSoulsI'm happy with my Zip
21:33:25[Saint]I could be reasonably happy with one if I used a 200GB sdcard I guess.
21:33:54[Saint]I like to script dumping random chunks of my collection to my DAPs. I have a lot of audio and get bored easily.
21:33:57TheEaterOfSoulsYou have to format them with FAT32 which is not possible in Windows
21:34:08[Saint]It is.
21:34:22lebellium... and scroll over 100 000 tracks on the 1" display :D
21:34:27[Saint]Just not natively. For no real reason at all other than "fuck you, that's why".
21:34:40[Saint]But it can most certainly be done.
21:34:41TheEaterOfSoulsIf someone doesn't do it before me I hope to write an XFAT driver for Rockbox to teach me about OS fundamentals and stuff
21:35:17[Saint]There's a bunch of open exfat implementations to work from these days.
21:35:19TheEaterOfSoulsYeah I'm not a fan of third-party utilities for that sort of thing
21:35:22TheEaterOfSoulsJust use Linux
21:35:59[Saint]I don't think we've talked very seriously about changing to exfat of <other_FS> other than the "we really have no reason to do this" discussion.
21:36:16sansaihas anyone heard of success stories with heat treatment for players with hardware issues? (akin to baking graphics cards)
21:36:28TheEaterOfSoulsIsn't Rockbox development kind of stalled?
21:36:31TheEaterOfSoulsI mean for the most part
21:36:35[Saint]Not at all.
21:36:40[Saint]By no means.
21:36:48[Saint]Look at the commit list.
21:37:03[Saint]Look at gerrit.
21:37:09TheEaterOfSoulsI have, seems to update with one of two every now and then
21:37:20[Saint]Rockbox is still trudging alone at a glacial deathmarch pace.
21:37:40[Saint]I think "stalled" is a bit of a stretch though.
21:37:42TheEaterOfSoulsWonder for how long
21:38:02gevaertsAt least three weeks!
21:38:13[Saint]I honestly think it's got another ~10 years in it potentially.
21:38:18lebelliumWell, isn't "not at all" a bit exaggerated ? There are many commits from very few different developpers.
21:38:27TheEaterOfSoulsReally? With no new hardware?
21:38:55[Saint]There's a lot of new ports happening behind the scenes you likely never see or hear of.
21:39:08TheEaterOfSoulsI mean I've been a huge fan of DAPs but even I'm considering switching to my phone when I get one with more space
21:39:14[Saint]pamaury is a fucking machine in this regard.
21:40:00TheEaterOfSoulsBut not the new Clips :(
21:40:15[Saint]That's just plain not gonna happen.
21:40:16TheEaterOfSoulsNot that they sound like very good players
21:40:34pamauryif the Fiio X1 port goes well, we could potentially have rockbox on the whole Fiio line: X1, X3, X5, that would quite nice. Sansa seems to have abandonned any interest in good players
21:40:52[Saint]Rockbox in its current form is in no way getting on any of the new Clips.
21:41:04lebellium[Saint]: yes,, but without pamaury and the few others, what would the commit list look like? Of course it's dying if you compare with 5 years or 10 years ago
21:41:16 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:41:21[Saint]IFF "rockbox" ever happened on these players, it would be unrecognizable.
21:41:29[Saint]It wouldn't be what you know and love.
21:41:42TheEaterOfSoulsJust looked at the X5
21:41:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:41:54TheEaterOfSoulsThat's extremely expensive for an audio player
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21:42:08[Saint]lebellium: That is true. But I don't think that those things are cut of the same cloth.
21:42:13[Saint]Yes, we're less active.
21:42:15[Saint]Have we stalled?
21:42:18[Saint]Fuck no.
21:42:29TheEaterOfSoulsI feel terrible saying it but I think at that point if I didn't have my Zip I'd just use my phone
21:42:43pamauryyeah I agree the X5 is not worth its price, the X1 is a much nicer compromise
21:43:07pamauryThere also are some Sony players, but I don't know what they are worth
21:43:10[Saint]The x5 is expensive because it isn't built like a happymeal toy piece of disposable electro-garbage.
21:43:21[Saint]Lots of their line are pricey.
21:43:26TheEaterOfSoulsI just hate playing audio on touchscreen devices
21:43:31[Saint]But not so much you end up crying over your purchase.
21:43:41TheEaterOfSoulsPersonal preference I guess
21:44:04TheEaterOfSoulsAnd without Rockbox voice support I can't really use other players
21:44:11[Saint]I dislike the feeling of any electronics that I think I could literally crush supervillain style in my bare hands.
21:44:15pamaurymost players don't have touchscreen: the X1 to X5 line is button only, sansas too, Sony's too, only the fancy 1000€ android based players are touchscreen based
21:44:33TheEaterOfSoulsSorry I was referring to phones
21:44:35[Saint]yeah - and you really DON'T want a Dx*
21:44:39[Saint]like...really really.
21:45:00[Saint]Not for the sake of Rockbox alone, that's certain.
21:45:21[Saint]Nice-ish players. Not /overly/ disappointed I own them.
21:45:25pamauryoh sorry, yeah phones are suboptimal media players in my opinion, but I admit it's handy to only have one device
21:45:25[Saint]But I never use them.
21:45:38pamauryalthough I really much prefer the sound of my X1 compared to my phone
21:45:41TheEaterOfSoulsMaybe I'll just build myself something with a Raspberry Pi running Arch and an interface written in Python
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21:45:56[Saint]If you really hate yourself, go for it.
21:46:01TheEaterOfSoulsNot to mention battery life
21:46:05[Saint]Raspi audio sounds like dirt on dirt.
21:46:12TheEaterOfSoulsIt does
21:46:20[Saint]and it'd be _huge_.
21:46:24TheEaterOfSoulsBut what else am I going to do?
21:46:48[Saint]pamaury just listed a bunch of newport candidates.
21:46:56TheEaterOfSoulsI can listen to hours of audio, phone and laptop are both needed for other things so can't use the battery power
21:46:57[Saint]all available for purchase right now.
21:47:23TheEaterOfSoulsThen I'll have to hope Rockbox gets running on them sometime soon
21:47:34[Saint]On many of them, it is.
21:47:39TheEaterOfSoulsAnd I don't know much about RB development at this point so can't really help
21:50:19TheEaterOfSoulsBut these Fiio players look nice
21:50:47TheEaterOfSoulsI'd probably get the X5 if I weren't paying for college
21:51:12TheEaterOfSoulsAssuming Rockbox will be ready for it at some point
21:52:02 Quit MasterplasterPL (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
22:03:14*pamaury would probably not hear the difference between a X1 and X5
22:05:15sansaidoes anyone know if the bootloader on the sansa clip+ is on the same memory chip as the other internal flash memory?
22:07:14pamaurysansai: iirc, the CPU has a ROM which can boot from the flash, and then the flash contains a bootloader I guess
22:09:07bray90820OFF TOPIC: Anyone here have a FIIO X5
22:09:22sansaithanks. so a corrupted flash might affect the bootloader
22:11:57Mihailsansai: yes, but we have few reports when bootloader ok but flash drive show only 30 MB
22:13:08MihailIMHO we should add booting from sd card for this case
22:13:59sansaioh! well my player toggles between not showing up at all on usb, showing up as 4mb and showing 2gb just fine. Mihail: Yes, that would be very helpful, I asked if it was possible already earlier :)
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22:18:53saratogai'm not sure if its possible to boot if the NAND is dead
22:18:59saratogawe patch the bootloader on NAND to execute
22:19:10saratogaand we can't patch the on chip ROM
22:23:03Mihailprobably NAND not always fully dead as bootloader still work
22:23:30pamaurythere is a bootloader in ROM (the one which shows the infamous 30MB drive in case of failure), which loads the NAND bootloader. We suspect that when you see the 30MB it's either because ROM bootloader cannot make the flash work (so flash is probably dead)
22:23:44pamauryat least that's my understanding
22:25:02 Quit MasterplasterPL (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
22:25:32Mihailwe have few reports when user have rockbox logo and can start OF (but it freeze) and have 30 MB flash drive
22:26:13saratogamy understanding is that if you get the 4 MB partition the NAND is totally dead and nothing loaded from it
22:26:16 Nick suYin is now known as suYin`OFF (
22:26:38saratogaif you get the 32 or 2 GB partition, the NAND loaded the firmware but then booting errored out at some later point
22:26:52saratogai think it also varies a little between devices
22:27:43saratogapossibly in the > 4MB case we still have code execution and could try loading from SD card if one is present
22:28:00saratogabut i've never looked into it carefully and haven't seen a device with dead nand
22:28:51pamauryah sorry I was confused between the 4MB and the 30MB
22:30:18pamauryyeah 4MB is dead flash (presumably), and 30MB is more like RAM disk or something like that, when the bootloader is corrupted
22:38:56sansaiI have 2 Sansa players which sometimes show 4mb and sometimes show the full amount. At the moment both seem to lean more towards 4mb / dead it seems.
22:42:34 Quit rela (Quit: Leaving)
22:50:05TheEaterOfSoulsIs dead flash a common thing with Sansas?
22:52:46Mihailprobably we have two checks: first at rom and second in bootloader. Is we have disassembled (with additional comments) sansa bootloader?
22:55:53pamauryprobably funman did
22:56:04pamaurylet me see if I have a copy
22:57:25MihailTheEaterOfSouls: we have 5-10 reports over last year
22:57:52pamauryI have a dump of the clip+ rom, it has some comments but not a lot
22:57:54TheEaterOfSoulsWell that's a little worrying...
22:58:17pamauryI tried to disassemble it to understand the USB code, but it's a nightmare
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22:58:24 Quit KD8NXH-Michigan (Remote host closed the connection)
22:58:26pamauryI can send it to you if you want
22:58:55 Quit TheEaterOfSouls (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 45.0.1/20160315153207])
22:59:25Mihailyes, it can be useful
23:00:41pamaurycan you PM me your email ?
23:01:39pamauryor should I use the one from git ?
23:02:29Mihailyes, same as in git
23:03:19 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:03:49 Join pamaury [0] (~pamaury@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
23:04:27pamauryI also have the original disassembly work by funman of the clipv2, but the main firmware only, not sure that's of interest though
23:05:04[Saint]sansai: that's....genuinely interesting.
23:05:26[Saint]In my experience with recovering these devices if the 4MB partition is exposed you're pretty much fucked.
23:06:00[Saint]I don't think I have every guided anyone through a successful recovery when the device was exposing the 4MB partition.
23:06:45[Saint]Though I have seen a couple that unbricked themselves "accidentally" after exposing this 4MB partition.
23:07:23sansaiyes, I don't know how, but that seems to have happened to the clip+
23:07:45[Saint]That is genuinely interesting.
23:08:38gevaertsSounds consistent with bad contacts somewhere
23:09:07[Saint]Yes. Quite possibly.
23:09:35Mihailpamaury: tanks! I think bootloader's dump should be enough for me :)
23:09:58sansaithis is the dmesg protocol for the same clip+ not much time apart
23:11:27sansaiAnd yes, I think its bad contacts / corrosion. I tried to clean it with alcohol today, but I think it made it worse.
23:12:44MihailAFAIK when we have "Product: M200Plus" - bootloader not available
23:12:47[Saint]I always found it interesting that when these things flake out that they appear as M200Plus
23:13:38[Saint]That is what we know as the "recovery mode", but we don't know how to interact with, or the purpose of, this 4MB partition.
23:13:52[Saint]Nor the 32MB partition.
23:14:10[Saint]It would be really bloody nice to actually understand what it is we're doing here.
23:14:50[Saint]It does stand to reason that there would be a recovery/initialization mode that the manufacturer can expose.
23:15:39[Saint]I'm willing to bet it involves sending some magic over USB to "Do It Right (TM)".
23:17:55pamaurythat's why I tried to disassemble the code, but it's fuc***** C++ with virtual tables all over the place, the code was clearly overengineered, I gave up eventually because I thought it was not worth it
23:22:18Mihailpamaury: can't open dump. I have IDA 6.1 it say "old format" and than try convert it to new, after that say "database is corrupt". Which version of IDA you use?
23:22:55pamauryI use IDA 6.8 but this one was made by IDA 5.5, I can convert it to a IDA 6.1 compatible format I think
23:23:07pamaurymy IDA 6.8 refuses to open it anyway
23:24:05pamauryI've sent you a new one
23:28:24Mihailstill have "database is corrupt", probably I should update IDA
23:30:00pamauryno, some IDA 6.1 versions have a blacklist
23:30:19pamaurylet me try something else, I had a trick to bypass the blacklist but I need to remember how
23:31:55 Join lebellium_ [0] (
23:32:06MihailI think I can just install IDA 6.8
23:33:06pamaurymy IDA 6.8 cannot open this file either, I have to do my IDA 6.1 to use it
23:33:09 Join lebellium__ [0] (
23:33:21 Quit lebellium (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:33:26pamaurybut there is a trick to "anonymize" an ida file:
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23:40:58*pamaury is struggling with idapython
23:41:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:43:24MihailImportError: No module named _idaapi :(
23:44:04pamauryI can't make idapyton work, I had this problem before, it's an issue with python on windows (I'm using wine to make things even simpler). I did manage to make it work once though
23:46:00 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 45.0.1/20160315153207])
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23:50:52 Quit Mihail (Quit: Page closed)
23:52:00pamaurydamn it, I'll try tomorrow on a Windows box
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23:52:49 Quit ender` (Quit: According to the FAA, the propeller blade didn't break off, it was just a case of "uncontained blade liberation.")
23:55:02pamauryhaha, idapython seems to be working finally, just needed to install python 2.6 and not 2.7
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