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#rockbox log for 2016-04-17

00:10:08 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection)
00:13:48lebelliumpamaury: what's the test?
00:14:18pamauryI'm doing it :-p I'm trying to fix the issue that makes the Fuze+ (or other imx targets) discharges if you let it charge too long
00:16:03 Quit krnlyng_ (Quit: krnlyng_)
00:16:17lebelliumI guess my Clip Zip does that too
00:17:41lebelliumWhen I disconnect the cable long time after it finished charging, the battery indicator is not 100%
00:17:53pamauryI mean there is an obvious way to fix it which is too charge forever but that's bad for the battery
00:18:00pamaury*to charge
00:18:15pamauryI'm trying to go another way :)
00:19:14Mihailhm, I think AMS don't use battery if charger/usb connected.
00:19:27lebelliumU don't think so
00:19:48lebelliumbecause when the battery is fully empty and you plug the cable, it starts then immediately shut down
00:20:00MihailBut look at datasheet.
00:20:35lebelliumyou have to power it on several times until it gets enough battery (1-2%) so remain ON
00:20:44lebelliumto remain*
00:21:12lebelliumthat's a shame
00:21:35lebelliumthat means that in a few years when the battery will be dead, I won't be able to use it while plugged
00:21:57MihailCharger always connected through diode.
00:22:20pamauryOn imx (stmp>=3780 to be precise), you can power up without battery and, in theory, you can tell the DC-DC to use usb power instead of battery power
00:22:32pamauryI'm checking that this actually works
00:23:18lebelliumthat's how laptops work
00:23:28lebelliumit should be implemented in every single mp3 player
00:24:14MihailSame on AMS: it work when battery disconnected.
00:24:54lebelliumThat's not what I'm seeing on Clip+ and Zip, sorry
00:25:29MihailYou see difference in voltage.
00:27:22lebelliumwhen the battery is empty, rockbox says "battery low, shutdown...". It should make a difference when the USB cable is plugged
00:27:34pamauryRe imx: I mean, they is setting I'm sure works: you can force the DC-DC to use usb power, but then when usb power disappears, you would power off abruptly. So the DC-DC has another mode when it compares battery and usb and takes the biggest, with preference for usb. But then, this voltage comparison also drains the battery a little bit I guess
00:27:46pamaury*there is a setting
00:30:05Mihaillebellium: Are you mean you have "battery low, shutdown..." even when charger connected?
00:30:17lebelliumthat's the problem
00:30:42lebelliumit happens a lot to me because I have many players and only use them a few times a year
00:30:58MihailIn this case you have hardware issue.
00:31:03lebelliumso when I take them, the battery is fully empty and I start charging with charger connected
00:31:41lebelliumI don't think so
00:31:45 Join [Saint] [0] (~hayden@rockbox/staff/saint)
00:32:03lebelliumit's just that my voltage is below the limit in rockbox
00:32:11lebelliumbecause I let the player discharge for months
00:32:45lebelliumso when you start charging, the voltage is still below the limit and rockbox says "battery low, shutdown"
00:33:01lebelliumso you power it on again a few times until it reachs 1% battery and behave properly
00:34:37MihailIt another problem and we can fix this.
00:34:46pamaurylebellium: I don't know about some players, but on the imx, I had to take great take to make the power management code work even whe battery is full empty, it was mostly a software issue in fact
00:37:17Mihaillebellium: If you have _big_ discharging after end of charging (when charger sill connected) - your player have hardware issue.
00:38:25lebelliumMihail: I don't know what's "big" but if I disconnect the cable 1 or 2 hrs after it ended charging, I usually have 97-98% instead of 100% battery
00:39:12MihailIt normal. Battery voltage have same value as charger at end of charge. But after some time it will be lower even if you don't use it.
00:39:42lebelliumpamaury: at least the Fuze+'s battery doesn't discharged itself that much when not used. I just powered mine on and it says 80% battery. After probably a few months :)
00:40:42lebelliumMihail: ok
00:43:11MihailOn AMS we can disable non volatile memory and clock to minimize self discharging at long storing.
00:43:41lebelliumthat would be great for my poor Clip+ and Zip \o/
00:44:17MihailProbably we should add storing mode in settings :)
00:45:19lebelliumcouldn't it be smart handled like "oh I'm the internal clock and see that I have been working for 3 months idle. Now it's time to get off to save battery" :)
00:46:23lebelliumbecause honestly I don't know when will be the next time I will power the device on. It can be tomorrow or in 6 months. So it's hard to think about activating a "storing mode" in the settings
00:46:40Mihailno, as we can't execute code when player off
00:48:18 Quit ender` (Quit: It's nice to know that my launch to orbit won't have any pesky back-up systems weighing me down. -- Andy Weir: The Martian)
00:48:24Mihailbut are you need clock at player?
00:49:28lebelliumIt's nice to have but not a big deal if I have to set time again after a few months
00:49:30 Quit girafe (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:49:48lebelliuma storing mode would be great for the players I don't use often: E200, C200, Clip v2, iRiver H300, Cowon X5 etc...
00:50:31lebelliumbut the internal clock is also used for the OF, isn't it?
00:51:02MihailI mean we can add options to disable clock at all and have less self discharge.
00:51:50lebelliumI put a clock in all my Rockbox themes so −−:−− wouldn't look that nice ahah
00:52:10lebelliumdoes the clock really eat up much power?
00:55:02pamauryhum, thinking about it now, even if I manage to draw all power from usb for the cpu, I have no idea how the lcd backlight draws power, if it's from the battery then I can't help it
00:56:15pamauryWe'll see how it holds up the night ;)
00:57:28lebelliumit might blow up \o/
00:57:53MihailI don't directly measure it. But when clip zip off it eat 0.07mA - 177 days for full drain.
00:59:10 Quit Petri152 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:00:08lebelliumthat's more or less what I noticed too
01:00:16lebellium~6 months
01:00:30Mihailand battery have self discharge, so in real life it will be less
01:01:43MihailProbably if we disable clock we will have more than year for full drain. But I should check that.
01:01:43pamauryisn't that quite a lot for a power off state ?
01:02:22pamauryah no sorry, I though it was 0.07A ^^
01:03:12lebelliumMihail: what would be nice is a dual setting: 1) disable clock after every shut down and reset it at every startup . 2) disable clock permanently
01:03:13pamaurythat would have been hell of a power off mode
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01:08:02lebelliumpamaury: does the debug meny > CPU frequency work properly on Fuze+? I
01:08:28lebelliummine stays between 0,0Mhz and 0,4Mhz
01:13:28pamaurylebellium: no it's incorrect, I have no investigated why, I discovered that a few hours ago. If you want the real cpu frequency, go in debug menu > hw info > clkctrl
01:15:35pamaurymy guess is that some variable should be Hz instead of MHz or the other way around, probably trivial for fix
01:19:07pamauryindeed, for some reason I wrote the frequency in kHz instead of Hz into the variable, thus the weird display. I'll commit a fix tomorrow
01:20:01lebelliumI also noticed that when you go to the touchpad debug menu where you can move the green point with your finger, when you want to exit, it always crash
01:22:33pamauryyes, I tried to fix that one, I haven't been able to narrow it down so far. Also it's a debug menu so I admit I never tried too hard
01:22:50lebelliumit's a minor thing
01:22:55lebelliumnot sure it's worth it
01:23:08pamauryyeah but maybe it will uncover a real bug, who nows
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01:41:30Mihailpamaury: What you think about this:,51248.0.html
01:43:14pamauryhard to tell, I don't know much about how the firmware works. A priori I would say it's impossible but apparently not
01:44:10pamauryMy second guess would be that somehow the OF "reads itself" on the storage and since we modify it, the offsets are wrong and it breaks the OF
01:45:29MihailBut only when sd card inserted? Very strange.
01:46:51pamauryyeah it's very strange, I have no idea why
01:47:10pamauryfirst I would need to know how the dualboot works
01:47:52MihailAnother idea: we read buttons for dual boot. Maybe we should reset some registers before run OF?
01:49:58pamaurymaybe, but why would that be related to the sd card ?
01:50:57pamaurywhich device is that again ?
01:51:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:52:16Mihailc240v2, probably it share GPIO for SD and buttons or some thing like it.
01:53:16pamauryI'm looking at the code
01:53:44pamauryis c240v2 the same as c200v2 ? I guess it is
01:53:50Mihailor we change some frequency
01:57:06Mihailshould be same
02:00:20pamauryI know next to nothing about as3525...
02:01:01pamauryat least the possibilities are limited: the only code that is run before is the dualboot code, so about 30 lines of assembly
02:01:33pamauryI think it's safe to admit that the rest that is common to all as3525 targets works
02:02:37pamauryfor some reason the C200V2 code seems to do a lot more than the other players, with the DBOP thing
02:02:44pamaurymaybe that's the explanation
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02:04:18MihailGood, I look at this tomorrow.
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15:40:58Mihailfunman, pamaury or any who can help: g#1293
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15:48:10pamauryMihail: I'm looking at it
15:50:01pamauryit looks correct to me
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15:52:53Mihailyes, it looks correct, but it in dualboot code and we can brick user's player if something wrong
15:53:07Mihailfunman ?
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17:04:34lebelliumgevaerts: I wanted to update one of my themes but put a wrong name so that it created a new theme instead of overwriting the existing one. I didn't click on the link in the email verification mail yet
17:04:50lebelliumshould I click on it and then you delete the theme from the database?
17:06:51gevaertslebellium: we can do that. Please report the theme via the site so I know I have the right one
17:08:44lebelliumgevaerts: thanks
17:08:46lebelliumI just reported it
17:12:45*pamaury has a cool new debug feature for imx: completely disable battery when usb is plugged so that the usb power consumption is exactly the one of the device, then one can measure the usb current
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17:16:18gevaertsThat's handy!
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17:24:04pamauryI don't understand, on both my Fuze+ and my NWZ-E380, the screen becomes garbage in some circumstances (the same ones !), but I *never* had this problem before. The only difference seems to be the compiler
17:24:39pamauryI need to check against our reference compiler, *sight*
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17:28:07pamauryit's a buflib crc error, it's going to be super hard to debug :(
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17:29:37pamauryeach time I get one of those, I want to implement MMU protection for buflib
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18:05:21Mihailpamaury: are you try firmware/test/buflib/* with your compiler?
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18:50:45pamauryMihail: no, I'm just just rockbox compiled in debug mode
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19:08:46lebelliumsaratoga: Mihail: with the latest build on my Clip Zip, the id3tags get refreshed 5 seconds after the song started
19:08:51lebelliumit's pretty annoying
19:09:00lebelliumis it because of the voltage and frequency scaling?
19:17:59MihailCan't reproduce. Are you use database?
19:18:19lebelliumyes, all tracks (~5000)
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19:20:00MihailI don't use database. Probably we should add boost for it.
19:20:49MihailI check it later.
19:21:10lebelliumit also happens within a folder
19:21:17lebelliumso it's not related to the database
19:21:50Mihailcan you disable database and check again?
19:25:13lebelliumI deleted all database files and checked again within a folder
19:25:19lebelliumnow it's working...
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19:33:56lebelliumMihail: so it occus both with folders and the database when the database is initialized
19:34:33lebelliumI don't know why though. I thought that when you play songs from folders, the database has no effect here
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20:26:57Mihailpamaury: BTW Are you measure and compare USB current and battery current? IMHO it can't be same as we have difference in voltage - 5v for USB and 3.3-4V for battery.
20:28:02pamauryMihail: of course, I mean same consumption, since I can also measure the usb voltage
20:29:26MihailYou have same current (mA) or some consumption (mW) ?
20:30:20pamauryI must have have same consumption, since I disable the battery and charger: I can now the device consumption by looking at the usb consumption
20:30:43pamaury*measure the device
20:31:45pamaurythe point is to avoid disassembling the device and hooking up a scope to the battery to measure consumption
20:32:33MihailProbably we can try do that for other devices. You just disable charging or do something else?
20:33:31pamauryOn imx it's a bit "tricky" (you need to understand the power subsystem in detail), but because everything is software control you can disable the charger and force the device to use 5v instead of battery as power source
20:33:40 Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
20:33:46pamaurynot all socs can do it I think
20:34:50pamauryactually the imx even provides two different ways of doing that...
20:35:55MihailAMS can do that, but it will have some losses on diode.
20:37:00pamaurywell imx will have some loss in 5v -> 4.2 linear regulator
20:38:20Mihailwhat datasheet you use for imx?
20:38:21pamaurybut it does not really matter because you can measure differences, and thus see if some code improves consumption or not
20:39:06pamaury"i.MX233 Product Data Sheet" and "i.MX233 Power Management Unit and Battery Charger"
20:45:27MihailYes, most time we want know difference. Absolute value need only if we want to know how many hours from battery we can have.
20:47:02pamauryyeah I'm not really interested in total runtime, this is better measured by letting the device run
20:47:12 Join JanC [0] (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC)
20:49:33MihailIt too long process :) Also if battery not new, result can be very different.
20:51:32pamauryMihail: I let others with brand new device run the test for me ;)
20:52:07Mihailgood point of view :)
20:52:37pamaurybecause letting the device run for 40h is definitely too long ^^
20:58:42Mihailsaratoga: Are you there?
21:04:13 Join sulfasal [0] (
21:06:33 Nick Mir_ is now known as Mir (~Mir@
21:06:42sulfasalsansa clip? Two inch by one inch. With a clip. Bricked. Did some googling. Apparently need a "JTAG interface". What are my options?
21:11:08Mihaillebellium: What should I do to reproduce your problem?
21:11:10sulfasalMihail: awesome! Nothing about JTAG though. What's up with that?
21:12:10lebelliumMihail: initialize the database then once it's commited, just play a song in a folder and wait for the next one to come with display ON
21:16:11Mihailsulfasal: Are you can't understand something?
21:23:00 Quit krnlyng (Quit: krnlyng)
21:26:38Mihaillebellium: still can't reproduce
21:29:21lebelliumI'll check that further
21:43:21sulfasal"To use JTAG for unbricking..."
21:46:33 Join Saratoga_ [0] (ac38175c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
21:47:21Saratoga_I don't think anyone has fixed a clip over JTAG, but if it is possible it would be good to have documented
21:48:20sulfasalSaratoga_: new to this. Don't want to make it worse ;(
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21:51:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:52:33 Quit Saratoga_ (Quit: Page closed)
21:52:48lebelliumMihail: how many songs do you have on your Clip Zip? And which theme do you use?
21:53:52MihailSaratoga_: Can you build g#1293 (and patch OF) for c240v2? I don't trust my arm compiler.
21:54:17 Join Saratoga_ [0] (ac38175c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
21:54:36Saratoga_Slow tag reading may mean that the tags aren't buffered yet
21:54:57Saratoga_Could be a long time on a device with low memory and tags at the end of the file
21:55:21Saratoga_I forget how this is handled these days
21:56:17Saratoga_I guess being unboosted may slow down buffering some, I think that's normal on most devices
21:56:38Mihaillebellium: 2478, KnK theme
21:58:18MihailSaratoga_: probably you miss my message: Can you build g#1293 (and patch OF) for c240v2? I don't trust my arm compiler.
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22:00:51Saratoga_I can look when at a PC, not sure how those are built actually
22:01:09Saratoga_I forget why we used dbop originally
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22:02:05 Quit advcomp2019_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
22:04:17Mihailmake -C rbutil/mkamsboot
22:14:14lebelliumMihail: I can reproduce the issue everytime like that: 1) set any theme like cabbie v2 or KnK, 2) Initialize the database, 3) After commiting 9/9, reboot to enable 4) Files>any folder>any song. 5) fast forward ~5 seconds before the end of the song and look at the display: when you hear the next song, it still displays the id3 title of the previous song for around 5 seconds.
22:14:46lebelliumIf I delete the database files (.rockbox/database_X.tcd) the issue is gone
22:16:03 Join krnlyng [0] (~liar@
22:18:35Saratoga_Lebellium: if you fast forward to the end the next track won't be buffered
22:18:48Saratoga_So the tags won't be available yet
22:19:09Saratoga_At least for files bigger than the audio buffer
22:19:11lebelliumok let me check without fast forwarding
22:20:54 Quit krnlyng (Client Quit)
22:24:35lebelliumSaratoga_: doesn't make any difference. I let a 4 min track play entirely and it needed more than 5 seconds to refresh the id3tags
22:24:48lebelliumof the next song
22:25:24Mihail<bertrik> Although several of the DBOP data signals are accessible as GPIO, there are also some that can *only* be accessed through DBOP (like some of the buttons on the sansa c200v2)
22:26:57MihailWhat we should do? Change it to right button?
22:31:58 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:37:25Saratoga_Lebellium: how long is the next file? Are the tags at the front or end of the file?
22:39:32 Join krnlyng [0] (~liar@
22:42:32lebelliumSaratoga_: next file is MP3 VBR - 5 mins - 9MB . I don't know where are the id3tags. I use MP3Tag
22:43:00lebelliumI can bisect it
22:43:11lebelliumI'm pretty sure it comes from the latest builds and not from my files
22:44:12Saratoga_Does forcing boost fix it?
22:44:19lebelliumhow can I do that?
22:45:57Saratoga_System debug CPU frequency
22:46:03Saratoga_Or similar
22:48:19lebelliumin CPU frequency I can read the current CPU frequency and boost_counter
22:48:30lebelliumbut I can't set anything apparently
22:49:36 Quit krnlyng (Quit: krnlyng)
22:49:37 Join [Saint] [0] (~hayden@rockbox/staff/saint)
22:49:51Mihailjust press 'up' in this menu
22:51:46lebelliumSaratoga_: yes it helps :)
22:52:40 Quit Saratoga_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
22:54:50lebelliumhum looks like something went wrong
22:55:10lebelliumI can't start the player now
22:55:15lebelliumI got ATA error twice
22:55:17lebelliumand now nothing
22:57:34lebelliumit finally turned on
23:00:48lebelliumwhen I force boost to 192 Mhz, the id3tags of the next song are refreshed immediately
23:01:18[Saint]Sounds like my Nexus 6 when I accidentally built a kernel with the 0% threshold set to 0.0V.
23:01:25[Saint]That was anus clenching.
23:07:19 Join krnlyng [0] (~liar@
23:14:36Mihaillebellium: Which size database_idx.tcd have?
23:17:12lebelliumMihail: I'm curently running a system file check. Since I forced boost in the debug menu, I get an ATA error about every 2 startups
23:17:20lebelliumI tell you after the size
23:18:11MihailYou have ATA error on clip zip?
23:18:20lebelliumnever got it before
23:19:14lebelliumI boosted the CPU frequency, checked my issue with the id3tags, turned off the player. And now it occurs at startup :(
23:20:49MihailTry without sd card.
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23:29:39lebelliumMihail: yeah I'll try without sd card. database_idx.tcd ist 435KB
23:33:27[Saint]FWIW: iPod4g pretty much religiously barfs on every 2 out of 3 boots and has for years.
23:34:01[Saint]It'll boot to the "bad iPod" type screen, 2, 3, 4 times in a row, and then just magically work fine.
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23:44:37Mihaillebellium: which number you have at end of "ATA error" message?
23:44:53lebelliumATA error: -4
23:45:22lebelliumlooks like it's due to the sd card
23:45:35lebelliumbut the file system check on SD didn't find any issue
23:46:24 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador)
23:49:31MihailThis error mean problem with early initialization of sd card.
23:51:08MihailSo it not related to file system errors.
23:51:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:52:27MihailIn any case player startup always at boost, so it bit strange.
23:53:23 Join prof_wolfff [0] (
23:54:17lebelliumI try with the sd card from my other clip zip and it always work (tried 10 startups)
23:55:07lebelliumbut I don't understand why this happens right now. I've had the same SD card in my Clip Zip for more than 1 year and it never failed at startup before
23:56:42lebelliumI changed back the cards and now it works again with the original card
23:56:47lebelliumI hate those random issues
23:56:51MihailIs problem clip zip have half or more of charge level?
23:57:14lebelliumit's currently at 70%
23:58:22Mihailcan you try startup it with sd card + charger?
23:58:37 Join thum_ [0] (~thum@

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