| 00:02:56 | pamaury | it's hard to blame 10 year old code for triggering warnngs of new gccs |
| 00:03:07 | [Saint] | Oh, sure. |
| 00:03:18 | pamaury | but yeah it's super annoying |
| 00:08:20 | [Saint] | pamaury: I guess one question worth addressing is why the hell we even actually manage the toolchains in this fashion. |
| 00:08:45 | [Saint] | I have some work locally that pretty much scraps all of rockboxdev.sh totally. |
| 00:09:41 | pamaury | because some toolchains are broken, and we prefer to have known good versions |
| 00:09:52 | pamaury | many it's less of a problem now, at least for arm and mips |
| 00:10:07 | pamaury | but for ypr0 for example we are stuck with it |
| 00:10:11 | [Saint] | It splits out each toolchain into its own script if you do want to generate it yourself, and rockboxdev.sh becomes get_toolchains.sh where it just downloads the preformed toochains for that architecture and dumps them in a user specified location. |
| 00:10:14 | [Saint] | Much nicer, IMO. |
| 00:11:02 | [Saint] | There's no real reason to actually generate the toolchains on each build client or dev machine. |
| 00:11:16 | pamaury | you mean downloading a prebuilt one ? |
| 00:11:23 | [Saint] | As long as we know they can be built, there's absolutely no problem with shipping prebuilts. |
| 00:11:25 | [Saint] | And, yes. |
| 00:11:46 | | Quit krabador (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:11:57 | pamaury | well sure, but is it the problem: that we don't even manage to build them ? :) |
| 00:12:35 | [Saint] | Well, that's why I said above "as long as we know they can be built..." |
| 00:13:15 | [Saint] | I think shipping prebuilts might maybe remove some room for error between build clients, also. |
| 00:14:23 | [Saint] | Ideally each build client would refuse to build if the prebuilt toolchain hashes were not matched. |
| 00:14:44 | [Saint] | That way we know each client is on the same page. |
| 00:15:10 | [Saint] | I would also like to discuss how we feel about tight versioning with the build clients. |
| 00:15:41 | [Saint] | I do not think just satisfying a dependency and "as long as it builds" is really enough, and I think it opens up a lot of room for error. |
| 00:16:15 | [Saint] | We need to not only satisfy the build dependency, but get every build client on the roster to agree to what whitelisted versions of the dependencies are allowable. |
| 00:16:59 | [Saint] | But that revolves around a protracted discussion on the mailing list that I really don't have the energy for. |
| 00:17:08 | [Saint] | :-S |
| 00:17:37 | [Saint] | pamaury, and gevaerts: what, if anything, are your feelings on this? |
| 00:18:04 | [Saint] | I want all our build clients on the same page. |
| 00:18:20 | pamaury | but what "on the same page" even means for sim and android for example ? |
| 00:18:54 | [Saint] | for Android it is a very clear path. SIM...yeah, hence the discussion I don't really want to have. |
| 00:19:09 | [Saint] | But, I do, because we need to. |
| 00:20:08 | [Saint] | Note: I only think this should be managed for the build clients. |
| 00:20:30 | [Saint] | For Joe User and Joe Developer, if you want to satisfy build dependencies in any way you can - go for it. |
| 00:21:08 | [Saint] | But I think it is desirable to have our build clients agree on versioning for their dependencies. |
| 00:21:28 | pamaury | well, our build client already enforce specific toolchain versions |
| 00:23:45 | * | [Saint] managed to fuck something up |
| 00:24:05 | [Saint] | I just noticed my latest attempt at building ypr* toolchain is stuck in a loop |
| 00:24:16 | [Saint] | >.> |
| 00:26:25 | pamaury | hum, ct-ng ignores my make 3.82, I don't know how to force it to use it |
| 00:33:05 | | Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador) |
| 00:33:24 | pamaury | not sure if ct-ng ignores it *because* it's 3.82, or because 4.0>=3.82 |
| 00:39:06 | [Saint] | woo - ok, mipsel-elf done. |
| 00:40:55 | [Saint] | is anyone interested in committing the updated mipsel binutils and gcc stuffs, and arm gcc -fgnu89-inline stuffs? |
| 00:41:25 | [Saint] | especially the latter as it causes precisely zero fuss for anyone not affected by it. |
| 00:43:45 | pamaury | [Saint]: the problem is the build client still enforce the old mips version |
| 00:44:12 | __builtin | gevaerts: should I fix the whitespace issues you referred to in g#1323? |
| 00:44:13 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #1323 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1323 : One-Time Password client (HOTP and TOTP) by Franklin Wei |
| 00:44:14 | pamaury | that means we would need to change rockboxdev.sh, the buildclient script and make sure all build clients are updated at once |
| 00:44:19 | __builtin | sorry, g#1332 |
| 00:44:20 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #1332 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1332 : Fix broken simulator build with weird sdl-config by Franklin Wei |
| 00:44:49 | pamaury | or that would mean rockboxdev.sh provides a version of mips toolchain that no build client can use |
| 00:45:03 | [Saint] | right. |
| 00:45:08 | [Saint] | hum. |
| 00:45:35 | [Saint] | well, there's no problem with the armeabi change for modern gcc, is there? |
| 00:46:44 | pamaury | the diff I provided on gist changes CFLAGS for all, including mips and mips is so old it doesn't know about -gnu89-inline |
| 00:46:56 | pamaury | that's a f*** nightmare |
| 00:47:32 | n1cky | anyone know what's up with the gerrit github oauth? |
| 00:47:43 | [Saint] | n1cky: hmm? |
| 00:47:47 | pamaury | n1cky: no never tried it, is there a problem ? |
| 00:48:13 | n1cky | I get a 404 when I try it; might just be my adblocking. google oauth works fine, so whatever |
| 00:49:10 | [Saint] | n1cky: using GoogleOAuth2 'Just Works' for me here. |
| 00:49:13 | [Saint] | Just tried it. |
| 00:49:28 | [Saint] | I can also auth against GitHubOAth2. |
| 00:49:28 | n1cky | Do you mean github? |
| 00:49:31 | n1cky | Interesting |
| 00:49:48 | pamaury | [Saint]: I think we need 1) update rockboxdev.sh, 2) introduce a new mips toolchain version in the buildclient list, 3) make sure all existings build client have both mips toolchains available (or none) 4) convert all mips builds to the new one |
| 00:49:54 | [Saint] | And, no, I didn't. I meant Google. |
| 00:49:59 | | Join JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 00:50:04 | [Saint] | But I can /also/ auth against GitHub. |
| 00:50:19 | pamaury | n1cky: I confirm github oauth leads to 404 |
| 00:50:26 | __builtin | same |
| 00:50:36 | [Saint] | Odd. |
| 00:50:36 | pamaury | no idea why though |
| 00:50:50 | [Saint] | Perhaps I have some locale caching shenanigans going on. |
| 00:50:53 | n1cky | [Saint]: it could be that gerrit recognizes a commonality between your github and google identity (maybe email) and prevents you from seeng the bug |
| 00:50:55 | [Saint] | *local |
| 00:51:07 | n1cky | or that^ |
| 00:51:07 | [Saint] | Perhaps, yes. |
| 00:51:24 | [Saint] | I would like to think that local caching wouldn;t affect OAuth login though. |
| 00:51:26 | [Saint] | ... |
| 00:51:44 | __builtin | does https://github.com/login/oauth/authorize 404 for you? |
| 00:52:01 | | Quit alexweissman (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:52:06 | n1cky | __builtin: it does here. |
| 00:52:13 | [Saint] | Ah, Aha. There we go. |
| 00:52:14 | [Saint] | Yep. |
| 00:52:28 | [Saint] | Interesting. |
| 00:52:42 | __builtin | https://developer.github.com/v3/oauth/ gives that URL |
| 00:52:51 | | Join The_Prospector|2 [0] (~The_Prosp@c-73-239-179-79.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:52:59 | n1cky | anybody want a changeset reviewed? I've got an hour |
| 00:53:06 | | Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 00:53:24 | [Saint] | One assumes all the pending changes on Gerrit might. |
| 00:53:28 | __builtin | n1cky: do you have hardware to test on? |
| 00:53:58 | [Saint] | I mean, I don't mean to sound like a dick. That sounded shitty. |
| 00:54:11 | [Saint] | But, that's one of the reasons Gerrit exists. |
| 00:55:03 | n1cky | __builtin: I've got a clip zip |
| 00:55:23 | | Quit The_Prospector (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 00:55:24 | __builtin | can you build rockbox? |
| 00:55:30 | __builtin | (if not I can supply a build) |
| 00:55:51 | n1cky | [Saint]: I got you. Fairly easy to be able to see that something like 1334 should be +1'd though. :) |
| 00:56:07 | n1cky | __builtin: I run openbsd. I've built successfully before in a vm, but I'd have to get that setup |
| 00:56:19 | __builtin | ok, I'll build it for you then |
| 00:56:29 | | Quit ender` (Quit: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. -- George Carlin) |
| 00:56:43 | n1cky | __builtin: if you send a build I can review. Can I pm you my email? |
| 00:56:49 | * | __builtin can host it |
| 00:57:04 | __builtin | it's a one-time password client I want to make sure works on hardware |
| 00:57:14 | __builtin | g#1323 |
| 00:57:15 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #1323 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1323 : One-Time Password client (HOTP and TOTP) by Franklin Wei |
| 00:58:05 | [Saint] | To be perfectly honest, I would like to remove the debug screen entirely. |
| 00:58:21 | [Saint] | We have debug build targets, enable it there. |
| 00:58:40 | __builtin | nothing wrong with having it there, right? |
| 00:58:42 | [Saint] | There's no reason for it to exist in the user builds. |
| 00:59:00 | __builtin | if something breaks they can help debug |
| 00:59:03 | n1cky | I find myself going in there to see info sometimes that isn't available / clear / detailed elsewhere. |
| 00:59:09 | pamaury | well it's useful to have sometimes to just tell users "have a look here and tell me what you see" |
| 00:59:10 | [Saint] | __builtin: stupid questions, really. people poking at boost. etc. |
| 00:59:26 | pamaury | obviously you can't blame a bug if you touch it |
| 00:59:40 | __builtin | it says "KEEP OUT" anyhow |
| 00:59:57 | [Saint] | Which may as well translate to "FUN STUFF IN HERE" |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:33 | n1cky | I dunno, the subset of people who are willing to load alternative firmware onto their mp3 player are not the subset of people that you need to protect from themselves imho |
| 01:00:58 | [Saint] | Perhaps we could force enable it with a config option. |
| 01:01:06 | [Saint] | liker 'userdebug=true' or so. |
| 01:01:20 | __builtin | maybe it could be hidden away like on android |
| 01:01:35 | [Saint] | I just don't think there's any reason at all it should be displayed to the user by default. |
| 01:01:47 | __builtin | click something 5 times and it shows up |
| 01:01:48 | [Saint] | you're right it can be useful, though. |
| 01:01:59 | | Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@210-84-29-231.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:01:59 | | Quit JdGordon (Changing host) |
| 01:01:59 | | Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 01:02:10 | n1cky | __builtin: I like that idea, some kind of trigger |
| 01:02:13 | __builtin | n1cky: https://fwei.tk/rockbox-full.zip |
| 01:02:37 | __builtin | install it and run the "otp" plugin under applications |
| 01:02:56 | [Saint] | A button trigger would be needlessly difficult to implement. |
| 01:03:07 | [Saint] | But we could definitely squirrel it away with a config option. |
| 01:03:41 | pamaury | I am not sure I see the point, is it that much of a pain that we need to hide it ? |
| 01:03:55 | [Saint] | Change it to a toplevel menu item, and then hide it by default using the mechanism we already have deployed for editing the main menu structure. |
| 01:04:20 | [Saint] | pamaury: it just avoids stupid questions and Joe User poking at things they have no need to poke at. |
| 01:04:24 | * | __builtin thinks that hiding something's complexity just makes it needlessly complex |
| 01:04:48 | [Saint] | __builtin: ...yet you just suggested a convoluted method of doing so. |
| 01:04:52 | [Saint] | Go figure, huh. |
| 01:05:05 | __builtin | removing it completely is worse |
| 01:05:14 | | Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 01:05:27 | [Saint] | I never said anything of the sort. |
| 01:05:44 | __builtin | alright, from the default builds then |
| 01:06:01 | [Saint] | My secondary suggestion even makes it arguable more accessible. |
| 01:06:04 | pamaury | maybe put it in the context menu of the system meny ? |
| 01:06:24 | * | pamaury wants it to be easily accessible |
| 01:06:35 | [Saint] | I was thinking of putting it in the toplevel menu structure, as if the problem is buttons the user may not even be able to navigate to it. |
| 01:06:44 | [Saint] | then we could just hide it by default. |
| 01:07:12 | __builtin | could it be hidden behind a long-click on some item? |
| 01:08:13 | [Saint] | that cycles around to 'if the problem was buttons' I guess. |
| 01:08:31 | pamaury | if you don't have access to a button, you are dead anyway, I don't see the point |
| 01:08:49 | __builtin | make it to get to if you're looking for it |
| 01:09:12 | n1cky | __builtin: copying over |
| 01:09:19 | [Saint] | if it was in the top level all you would need to function is the right nav button, and either up or down. |
| 01:09:57 | n1cky | Okay but if the problem was that you couldn't press buttons, you're SOL in the current setup anyway, right? |
| 01:10:26 | [Saint] | if you had no buttons _at all_, yes. |
| 01:10:27 | __builtin | I think [Saint]'s saying that if /some/ buttons are dead, you can still get to it |
| 01:10:35 | [Saint] | ^ right |
| 01:11:24 | [Saint] | ideally it would be a plugin and then you could launch it from boot with no buttons at all with a config menu entry. |
| 01:11:35 | [Saint] | we already have a provision for launching a plugin immediately at boot. |
| 01:11:55 | pamaury | but you need buttons to navigate it |
| 01:12:09 | [Saint] | I...no. |
| 01:12:17 | [Saint] | read what I wrote. |
| 01:12:21 | __builtin | inside the menu |
| 01:12:34 | __builtin | (debug menu) |
| 01:12:39 | pamaury | the debug menu is useless unless you can navigate to some screens in it |
| 01:12:43 | [Saint] | we can launch a plugin at boot, we've been able to do this for an eternity. |
| 01:12:57 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:13:01 | pamaury | read what I said... |
| 01:13:06 | [Saint] | no user intervention is required for that after it is setup in the config. |
| 01:13:25 | __builtin | [Saint]: pamaury's saying that using the debug menu still needs buttons |
| 01:13:50 | [Saint] | assumedly you would structure it with the most important assets first. |
| 01:13:58 | [Saint] | but small screen targets are fucked, yes. |
| 01:14:11 | __builtin | n1cky: does the plugin start properly? |
| 01:14:13 | [Saint] | but they would be just as fucked if you couldn;t navigate in any instance. |
| 01:14:13 | pamaury | I have no idea what you mean, there is no such thing as the mot important asset |
| 01:14:32 | [Saint] | Sure there is. |
| 01:15:57 | | Quit nchambers (K-Lined) |
| 01:16:26 | pamaury | And I am not even mentionning that making the debug menu a plugin is going to be a massive task |
| 01:16:42 | n1cky | __builtin: sorry, got distracted. Yes, it starts |
| 01:16:58 | __builtin | good, that means the self-check passes |
| 01:17:31 | n1cky | __builtin: anything I should do to test it beyond that? |
| 01:17:47 | __builtin | let me see |
| 01:18:00 | __builtin | do you have a github account you'd be willing to test with? |
| 01:18:32 | n1cky | Does it change something about how I can access my account in the future? |
| 01:18:45 | __builtin | yes, but you can easily revert it |
| 01:18:49 | n1cky | Okay, yeah, let's try it. |
| 01:19:01 | __builtin | ok, enable 2-factor authentication in your account settings |
| 01:19:06 | __builtin | under "Security" |
| 01:19:09 | pamaury | if anything, I would vote for "in the context menu of the main screen, have a setting for showing the debug menu (in the main screen)", and on debug builds it would always be there, and it would be a proper option so it is remembered over boots |
| 01:20:11 | __builtin | then choose "use an app" |
| 01:20:36 | n1cky | __builtin: How do I use this keyboard? |
| 01:20:47 | __builtin | hmm? |
| 01:20:55 | __builtin | the rockbox keyboard? |
| 01:21:11 | n1cky | yeah, I've never used it |
| 01:21:23 | __builtin | choose a character with the D-pad, and select |
| 01:21:33 | n1cky | how do I hit the equivilent of <enter>? |
| 01:21:33 | __builtin | to backspace select the line and hit select |
| 01:21:48 | __builtin | long-press the center button |
| 01:21:54 | __builtin | (I think) |
| 01:22:15 | | Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 01:22:32 | n1cky | Okay, well I go to manual entry, am prompted for the account name, enter "gh" for github, and then I hold the center |
| 01:22:39 | pamaury | keyboard map is device depending, on some devices it is crazy (especially the ones with a small numbers of keys) |
| 01:22:56 | n1cky | It then says, "Enter base32 encoded secret" but immediately exits with invalid |
| 01:23:13 | __builtin | hmm, it should go to a keyboard again |
| 01:23:27 | n1cky | nevermind, i got it to take. Just gotta be careful to not hold it too long |
| 01:23:51 | __builtin | now type the string that github gives you (case doesn't matter, just don't type it wrong) |
| 01:24:17 | __builtin | and when it asks, it /is/ a TOTP account |
| 01:25:41 | __builtin | beyond that, go with the defaults |
| 01:25:49 | n1cky | hardware fault, divided by zero |
| 01:25:56 | __builtin | after doing what? |
| 01:26:20 | n1cky | Said /yes/ to TOTP, timeperiod I accidentally entered a null string |
| 01:26:35 | __builtin | ah, that makes sense :P |
| 01:26:40 | * | __builtin needs to put in some error-checking |
| 01:27:05 | n1cky | __builtin: so what should my hotp counter be? |
| 01:27:12 | n1cky | and totp period |
| 01:27:28 | __builtin | period should be 30 seconds |
| 01:27:32 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 01:28:33 | __builtin | why do you need the HOTP counter? |
| 01:28:37 | n1cky | I don't neverminde |
| 01:28:56 | n1cky | When I go to generate the code, I get '*d (6 second(s) left)' |
| 01:29:15 | __builtin | darn |
| 01:29:46 | __builtin | looks like I've got a format string bug |
| 01:31:11 | * | [Saint] really wishes that GitHub (and a truckload of other services) would add a system for preferential 2FA access |
| 01:31:24 | [Saint] | Like, many offer a fallback email, or fallback SMS. |
| 01:31:34 | __builtin | give me a sec |
| 01:32:46 | n1cky | [Saint]: I wish that I could use ssh-agent for http auth |
| 01:32:55 | [Saint] | I would like to use application based Google 2FA for everything, but also allow the use of SMS based auth if for whatever reason I don't have immediate access to my application to manage this |
| 01:32:58 | n1cky | err, gpg-agent |
| 01:33:11 | [Saint] | But for pretty much everything it is a hard app OR SMS. |
| 01:33:17 | [Saint] | No app *and* SMS. |
| 01:33:58 | n1cky | [Saint]: The dream is to be able to have your hard drive encrypted with a key on a https://www.sigilance.com/ card, and go completely passwordless |
| 01:34:42 | * | [Saint] very recently started using GPG signing with github but assumes that a wide majority of people would find it impossible to give less fucks about whether or not the signature they're never going to confirm is valid or not. |
| 01:35:22 | n1cky | Yeah, gpg is just too far out of the normal |
| 01:36:27 | * | [Saint] wonders what the methodology of disallowing application based OAth and SMS based OAuth to be active at the same time on any given account. |
| 01:36:41 | [Saint] | Very few providers allow this, for no obvious reason at all. |
| 01:37:31 | n1cky | You mean either would work? |
| 01:37:58 | [Saint] | yes, like asking at the time which method you would like to auth with. |
| 01:39:01 | [Saint] | pretty much everything only allows either application based or SMS based auth to be active at any given time. |
| 01:39:27 | n1cky | I agree. |
| 01:39:32 | [Saint] | falling back to recovery tokens if it is inaccessible, or _maybe_ sometimes offering an SMS recovery method. |
| 01:39:51 | [Saint] | But I see no good reason why both couldn't be active at any given time. |
| 01:39:58 | n1cky | I think the argument against it is probably something like, 2fa gaurantees that the person logging in has every secret associated with that account |
| 01:40:10 | [Saint] | Perhaps there is one, but I am not aware of it. I assume there is justification for it. |
| 01:40:29 | n1cky | but if you introduce a concept of, "this person needs two of three secrets", well now you don't get those guarantees and might as well be using a password |
| 01:40:45 | n1cky | of course, that's faulty logic, because it's still harder to have someones cell phone and their password than it is to just have thier password. |
| 01:40:52 | n1cky | But I imagine the line of reasoning comes from there. |
| 01:41:03 | [Saint] | You're probably right. |
| 01:42:03 | __builtin | does rockbox's printf implementation support something like %*d? |
| 01:42:23 | [Saint] | grep would probably tell you. |
| 01:42:51 | [Saint] | though looking for all printf calls might be hilarious in the entire codebase. |
| 01:43:08 | [Saint] | I imagine there is a non-trivial amount. |
| 01:44:16 | __builtin | actually it seems I can't find any |
| 01:44:31 | __builtin | grep -R printf | grep "%\*d" |
| 01:45:52 | n1cky | [Saint]: I've prodded you about this before, has anyone's opinion changed on the outlook of supporting ext2 for external media? |
| 01:47:53 | [Saint] | "there's no point", really. |
| 01:48:09 | [Saint] | and permission based filesystems for removable media is batshit. |
| 01:48:21 | __builtin | large files? |
| 01:49:03 | | Join nchambers^ [0] (nchambers@carmelirc.duckdns.org) |
| 01:49:11 | [Saint] | If we were going to support any alternative filesystem, it would be exFAT. |
| 01:49:21 | [Saint] | But even then there's no real reasoning for this. |
| 01:49:26 | n1cky | Symlinks |
| 01:49:29 | [Saint] | Who uses 4GB+ files on a DAP? |
| 01:49:34 | __builtin | movies :P |
| 01:49:55 | __builtin | wikipedia |
| 01:49:59 | [Saint] | __builtin: on our largest screen DAPs that would be a ~6 hour long movie, lol. |
| 01:50:12 | [Saint] | and wikipedia has no single files that large. |
| 01:50:33 | __builtin | well, it has to work around that barrier |
| 01:50:50 | __builtin | n1cky: untested, but herE: |
| 01:51:00 | __builtin | https://fwei.tk/rockbox.zip |
| 01:51:19 | __builtin | synchronize the clock to within 30s of real time before using the plugin |
| 01:51:31 | __builtin | then start it and generate a code for github |
| 01:51:35 | * | [Saint] restates "permission based filesystems on removable media is batshit" |
| 01:51:52 | [Saint] | I very firmly believe that. There's no good reasoning for it and plenty against it. |
| 01:55:00 | n1cky | I'd agree if the rockbox project was engineering their own filesystem... But that's not the case |
| 01:55:20 | | Nick nchambers^ is now known as nchambers (nchambers@carmelirc.duckdns.org) |
| 01:55:58 | n1cky | As in, if you were starting rockbox from scratch and decided to make rockboxfs, adding a bunch of ext2 features would be ridiculous |
| 01:56:04 | | Nick nchambers is now known as nchambers_ (nchambers@carmelirc.duckdns.org) |
| 01:56:05 | | Nick nchambers_ is now known as nchambers (nchambers@carmelirc.duckdns.org) |
| 01:56:20 | __builtin | on a side note, I found a really cool game that might be cool to have on rockbox |
| 01:56:22 | __builtin | http://abagames.sakura.ne.jp/flash/ffs/ |
| 01:56:35 | [Saint] | I'm not sure you're getting the pint I'm making, n1cky. |
| 01:56:54 | [Saint] | I'm saying that permission based filesystems in any capacity on removable media is batshit crazy. |
| 01:59:23 | n1cky | I disagree−− not because permissions are ever going to be used by the removable media, but because the origin of the media might be a computer that has a permission-based filesystem and it's simpler to be able to just copy the permissions and not use them than it is to deny the ability to store that information |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:33 | [Saint] | but then what happens when you attempt to touch it from any other system that doesn't happen to be set up identically to the initial host of said content? |
| 02:01:01 | n1cky | __builtin: what do I set my time to? UTC? |
| 02:01:07 | [Saint] | you get it (rightfully) refusing to do so. entirely breaking the concept of removable media. |
| 02:01:55 | [Saint] | the idea of removable media in this context is that it 'just works' and is accessible on anything it touches capable of reading it. |
| 02:02:04 | __builtin | uhh, try UTC |
| 02:02:08 | [Saint] | permission based filesystems screw that up spectacularly. |
| 02:02:25 | | Join alexweissman [0] (~alexweiss@50.95.191.79) |
| 02:02:41 | [Saint] | you want to be able to pop out that media and have the entire content accessible to anything else that can touch it. |
| 02:03:10 | [Saint] | you don't want it bouncing off user permissions. |
| 02:03:46 | __builtin | n1cky: it needs to be within 30 seconds of "real time" |
| 02:04:07 | n1cky | __builtin: what on earth does that mean? |
| 02:04:13 | __builtin | UTC, I guess |
| 02:04:17 | * | __builtin actually isn't so sure |
| 02:04:39 | n1cky | [Saint]: if the user wants to use ext2 and wants their media to be accessible by anything else that can touch it, he can figure out how to fix the permissions |
| 02:04:51 | n1cky | __builtin: I'll try UTC |
| 02:05:00 | __builtin | once the time is set, generate a code and try to use it for github |
| 02:05:05 | [Saint] | n1cky: or you could just not support a really silly model in the first place. :) |
| 02:05:25 | [Saint] | IFF Rockbox was going to add another filesystem, it would be exFAT. |
| 02:05:30 | __builtin | and if it doesn't work, try whatever your local time is |
| 02:06:12 | __builtin | hmm, the RFC specifies UTC |
| 02:06:54 | | Quit alexweissman (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 02:07:05 | __builtin | but the weird thing is, I haven't used UTC and it still works |
| 02:07:55 | n1cky | __builtin: the code that is generated seems to be wrong... :\ |
| 02:08:05 | __builtin | try local time, I guess |
| 02:08:30 | n1cky | did you push this changeset yet? |
| 02:08:43 | __builtin | g#1323 |
| 02:08:44 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #1323 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1323 : One-Time Password client (HOTP and TOTP) by Franklin Wei |
| 02:08:52 | __builtin | but that doesn't have some new changes yet |
| 02:09:35 | | Quit [7] (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
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| 02:10:28 | n1cky | Seems to me like it's something with the format string, still. |
| 02:10:34 | [Saint] | OK. |
| 02:10:45 | __builtin | in gerrit? |
| 02:10:48 | * | [Saint] now has a go at building the git head mipsel toolchain |
| 02:11:02 | __builtin | or the build I gave you? |
| 02:11:04 | n1cky | __builtin: no, in the most recent build you sent. |
| 02:11:29 | n1cky | Ahahaha, nevermind |
| 02:11:37 | __builtin | hmm? |
| 02:11:39 | n1cky | You switched the time remaining and the code, i tihnk. |
| 02:12:00 | __builtin | ohhh |
| 02:12:03 | n1cky | I kept getting, "000006 (341234 seconds remaining)" |
| 02:12:15 | * | __builtin changed the format string, but didn't change the arguments |
| 02:12:21 | __builtin | does GH take it? |
| 02:14:37 | n1cky | Yes. Works! :) |
| 02:14:55 | __builtin | UTC time, right? |
| 02:15:18 | n1cky | Yup, UTC time. |
| 02:15:24 | __builtin | ok, I'll put that in the docs |
| 02:15:54 | __builtin | though... it won't be very practical to ask the user to change the time each time the plugin runs |
| 02:16:27 | n1cky | Yeah, probably specifying an hourly offset is needed |
| 02:16:52 | * | __builtin needs to look into how rockbox deals with time |
| 02:17:08 | __builtin | where does the simulator get its time from? |
| 02:18:09 | n1cky | btw, when I kept getting mixed up arguments, "000006" was static. So even if the arguments are mixed up, the time remaining seemed to be not accurate, but that could just be the formatter chomping |
| 02:18:21 | __builtin | yeah, I think I have it figured out |
| 02:18:56 | __builtin | but you can call yourself the first person to ever use an MP3 player as an OTP token now ;) |
| 02:20:09 | n1cky | haha! Yeah this is a really cool plugin, great idea. |
| 02:21:38 | n1cky | Update the changeset so I can +1 and we can get this merged hopefully |
| 02:21:58 | * | __builtin is going to test things again |
| 02:22:10 | __builtin | and account for timezones |
| 02:22:41 | n1cky | feel free to send another build, i'm just going to be watching the west finals and sitting on my laptop |
| 02:24:50 | | Join smoke_fumus [0] (~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90) |
| 02:26:43 | __builtin | if I do, it'll probably break your previous save data |
| 02:27:40 | __builtin | so beware |
| 02:30:19 | __builtin | it seems that rockbox doesn't know about time zones at all |
| 02:32:44 | __builtin | but the simulator uses time() which is in seconds since the epoch, which is in UTC |
| 02:38:25 | __builtin | DST is going to be a pain |
| 02:44:58 | n1cky | Yeah I disabled it in github right after; I want to wait until this is a bit more stable |
| 02:58:30 | n1cky | [Saint]: why are you so afraid of the user hurting themselves? |
| 02:59:12 | n1cky | If s/he fills his SD card with wrong permissions, he's dug his own grave. It's not like I'm suggesting rockbox should replace FAT with ext2. |
| 02:59:25 | n1cky | Just the ability to read it, for people who want it. |
| 03:00 |
| 03:05:37 | __builtin | n1cky: I think it should account for time zones properly now |
| 03:07:19 | __builtin | pushed to gerrit |
| 03:08:39 | n1cky | can you provide me with a build again? |
| 03:12:31 | __builtin | np |
| 03:13:01 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:13:40 | __builtin | you'll have to delete the old save data for it to work |
| 03:14:00 | __builtin | so remove .rockbox/rocks/apps/otp.dat before running it |
| 03:14:22 | __builtin | https://fwei.tk/rockbox.zip |
| 03:28:25 | * | [Saint] has mipsel gcc 4.1.2 and gcc 4.6.3 now |
| 03:28:49 | n1cky | Gave it a shot−− worked great. Changed my time and everything worked with the time offset. |
| 03:28:56 | n1cky | Formatting is all fixed up. |
| 03:29:12 | __builtin | woo! |
| 03:29:16 | n1cky | :D |
| 03:29:20 | n1cky | +1'd on gerrit. Cheers |
| 03:29:24 | __builtin | let me add some time zone labels to make it pretty |
| 03:29:30 | [Saint] | but I had to resort to piecing it together from what the build system is capable of compiling currently with a modern host and the leftovers I compiled about a year ago. |
| 03:32:25 | __builtin | n1cky: can you re-do the +1 on the new patch set? |
| 03:34:26 | n1cky | __builtin: done |
| 03:36:23 | __builtin | thanks :) |
| 03:37:07 | n1cky | :) nice work on that plugin |
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| 03:47:33 | __builtin | g'nite o/ |
| 03:48:32 | | Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 03:49:00 | n1cky | night! |
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| 07:14:48 | duo8 | does rockbox have a log of sorts? |
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| 07:49:17 | [Saint] | duo8: Not by default no, but, you can build a logf build and sprinkle logging around as you desire. |
| 07:58:56 | duo8 | btw is there a guide on the debug functions? |
| 08:00 |
| 08:00:16 | [Saint] | Which debug functions are you talking about specifically? |
| 08:02:26 | duo8 | the buffer thread viewer |
| 08:04:02 | [Saint] | Not outside of the source itself, no. |
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| 09:36:31 | gevaerts | __builtin: why not fix them? |
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| 14:23:02 | elensil | pamaury: tu es français :D |
| 14:23:52 | pamaury | oui |
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| 14:24:34 | elensil | I didn't knew that :) |
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| 18:25:51 | dudemann | hello |
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| 18:26:58 | dudemann | has there been an MP3 player released, since the Archos Studio, that holds 100+gb of data (and is capable of running rockbox)? I almost got a FiiO X3 but see it cant run rockbox. |
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| 18:39:45 | pamaury | dudemann: any player with microsd slot |
| 18:40:03 | amayer | iPod Classic |
| 18:40:24 | Horrorcat | pamaury: is that true? don’t you need SDXC for > 32 GB? |
| 18:41:13 | dudemann | id like to have an entire library of 100+gb to randomly play from and make playlists on, rockbox allowed me to make 6000 file playlists |
| 18:42:43 | pamaury | as far as know, you can take an sdxc card, reformat it as fat32 and you are rolling, since sdxc is electrically compatible with sdhc (it simply provides more bandwith if the host has support for it) |
| 18:43:02 | Horrorcat | and all targets support sdhc? |
| 18:44:07 | pamaury | as long as they have a microsd slots (except maybe the oldest players when high speed cards did not even existed) |
| 18:44:14 | Horrorcat | interesting. |
| 18:44:25 | Horrorcat | should have known all that before I got only 32 GB for my zenxfi3 :-) |
| 18:44:29 | Horrorcat | guess I should’ve asked. |
| 18:44:53 | pamaury | basically there is no difference between sd and sdhc at the electrical level, simply sdhc mandates support for high speeds mode |
| 18:45:44 | pamaury | don't expect to read/write your sdxc card at 100MB/s with rockbox though, it simply doesn't have the hardware support for it |
| 18:46:18 | Horrorcat | well, that speed isn’t important anyways. |
| 18:53:02 | dudemann | so with a sansa fuze, you can use a 128gb card as long as its fat32 ? |
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| 19:09:49 | duo8 | you can use the upcoming 256GB if you want |
| 19:10:07 | duo8 | or a 512GB with a SD -> mSD adapter |
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| 19:19:09 | dudemann | thank you |
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| 19:28:43 | duo8 | will probably be slow though, FAT isn't efficient afaik |
| 19:28:58 | duo8 | f2fs support when |
| 19:29:47 | Horrorcat | fragmentation aside, how would the filesystem influence the read speed on a non-rotating medium? |
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| 22:04:07 | Guest65764 | hi |
| 22:05:30 | Guest65764 | I finally had an opportunity to try opus files again |
| 22:05:47 | Guest65764 | has anyone else experienced issues with the autoseek feature on opus files ? |
| 22:06:25 | Guest65764 | by autoseek I mean "resume play" or whatever it's called in english |
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| 23:20:22 | | Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 46.0.1/20160502172042]) |
| 23:35:32 | | Join edhelas [0] (~edhelas@149-210-220-39.colo.transip.net) |
| 23:46:01 | pamaury | Horrorcat: FAT is a bad file system for that, finding where is Nth block of a file takes a take linear in N, so on huge file the file system can incur a big penalty even for read. But except for very big files, what matters most is fragmentation of course |
| 23:46:07 | | Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:58:38 | | Quit ender` (Quit: /* Return code=1: generic error condition, Return code=2: all other error conditions */) |
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