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#rockbox log for 2016-06-10

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00:37:32fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 489044d, 255 builds, 15 clients.
00:47:32fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 599 seconds.
00:47:33fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 489044d result: All green
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02:00:41prof_wolfff__builtin: are you referring to the iPod classic?, scrolling files in folders?
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02:22:23[Saint]prof_wolfff: probably, and, he's not wrong.
02:22:30[Saint]but this is not unique to the classic.
02:22:44[Saint]all hdd based targets are now fairly similar in this regard.
02:22:59[Saint]ever since the filesystem re-write.
02:23:43[Saint]the database is almost unusable ever since that re-write because for some stupid reason tagcache in RAM was removed.
02:24:13[Saint]the intent was that it wasn't supposed to be required, and the filesystem rewrite was supposed to be drastically faster, yadda yadda yadda...
02:24:20[Saint]but, it isn't, basically.
02:25:25[Saint]I'm really not a fan of that commit going in with the very minimal amount of testing that it got and the fact that it removed at least one major feature that made life a lot more bearable for people with very large collections and platter/HDD based devices.
02:28:01[Saint]prof_wolfff: it is because of this:
02:28:36[Saint]it walks across pretty much everything and drastically changed dircache and completely removed tagcache RAM.
02:29:39[Saint]actually, I'm not even sure that dircache is even functional anymore.
02:29:48prof_wolfffah! didn't noticed because i start using RB after that, anyway i have just tested to browse on my iPod and it seems that everything is cached, no disk access while browsing music folders
02:29:59[Saint]it certainly looks to me like the dircache settings are completely ignored now.
02:30:20[Saint]but perhaps I'm just not following it right.
02:31:04[Saint]prof_wolfff: do you have any directory structures with a very high amount of child files per directory? Like, 200+?
02:33:43prof_wolfffno, some folders with about 50-100 album folders and then a few songs by folder
02:34:17[Saint]I am poking at it here, and if I inflate the amount of files to show in any given directory to 10,000, and then scroll in that directory, it gets very slow and there's disk access at around the several hundred files mark.
02:35:04[Saint]scrolling 'all tracks' in the database is really awful.
02:35:29prof_wolfffah!, so not everything is cached
02:36:08[Saint]I'm looking at that commit now trying to refresh my memory on exactly what it does and doesn't do.
02:36:23[Saint]I was not happy at all about it being committed.
02:37:38[Saint]JhMikeS just kinda showed up one day and was all like "Oh, hey, so in the past year when I've been almost entirely out of contact with you guys I completely re-wrote the entire filesystem backend!"
02:38:12[Saint]then it sat on gerrit for a while and got pushed with far too little testing despite the fact that it was so aggressive and didn't meet feature parity with what it replaced.
02:38:50prof_wolfffyes i see now when scrolling 'all tracks' the HDD is powered on/off every few seconds, it takes ~2 seconds to spin up each time
02:39:55[Saint]whereas before it used to keep the entire tagcache in RAM and scrolling the database was effortless and completely smooth.
02:41:17[Saint]Especially on targets like the Classic with 64MB of RAM it absolutely makes sense to dedicate the trivial amount of RAM it takes to keep tagcache in RAM fulltime to making the user experience in the database more fluid.
02:42:04prof_wolfffany reason to remove the tagcache?, it seems a *must* for these targets, HDD life could be shortened this way
02:42:37[Saint]I think the intention was to add it back after the fact, but, he never did.
02:42:52[Saint]and he's the only one who is intimately familiar with this area of the code.
02:43:16[Saint]database and filesystem backend was a bit of a nightmare and a no man's land even before the rewrite.
02:43:36[Saint]After it, and I have very little idea what is going on. I find the current implementation very difficult to follow.
02:44:05[Saint]Like I said I'm not even sure if a few of the user facing settings for tagcache and dircache are even applied.
02:45:17[Saint]Ideally I would just revert the patch, but doing so at this late stage is ab absolute nightmare. Practically impossible.
02:45:35[Saint]*is an absolute
02:46:56[Saint]as a side bonus it also broke relative paths in playlists.
02:47:34[Saint]"4) Relative path components are supported and the namespace is unified. It does not support full relative paths to an implied current directory; what is does support is use of "." and "..". Adding the former would not be very difficult. The namespace is unified in the sense that volumes may be specified several times along with relative parts, e.g.: "/<0>/foo/../../<1>/bar" :<=> "/<1>/bar"."
02:48:04[Saint]That pretty much completely broke user expectation about how playlists are managed with relative paths.
02:48:04prof_wolfffso we must go straight and try to implement the caches, i am not going to have much time next months but i will try to give a look to that code some day
02:49:01[Saint]Yes. Reverting it is really not an option. It would be substantially more work to rebase and convert the huge stack of code that has been built on top of the new fileystem backend.
02:50:47[Saint]EVen very shortly after the initial commit reverting the patch became pretty obviously problematic and threatened to undo the work of several other people.
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05:28:09__builtin[Saint]: yeah, the FS is SLOOWWW
05:28:19__builtinit probably takes about 5s to load a plugin
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05:32:24__builtinit's nearly unusable now
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05:49:40__builtinwhy was the rewrite needed in the first place?
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09:00:53yoon_Hi everyone
09:01:52yoon_do you know if anyone is working on a DX80 rockbox port around?
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13:32:19pamaury[Saint]: prof_wolfff: althoughI agree the patch went it with not enough testing, there were really good reasons for the rewrite, mostly because the FS code suffered from many nasty and subtle bugs
13:32:33pamauryit was fundamentatelly broken
13:32:58Horrorcatpamaury: I have a crash for you :-). I paused the device and enabled hold, a minute or two later I un-holded it and tried to resume, this is what I saw
13:33:51pamaurywell this is not really useful I have to admit :) By the way, what theme do you use ? It does not look like the default one
13:33:57Horrorcatit’s my own
13:34:03pamaury(themes have been known to cause bugs unfortunately)
13:34:09Horrorcati wrote it for the h300
13:34:20pamaurycould you try for a day or so to use the default one and see if it makes a difference ?
13:34:28HorrorcatI never had that crash before
13:34:36pamauryit is very device dependent
13:35:16Horrorcatmmm... it’s odd because it appears as if in the middle of the 6th line, the contents are shifted to the left by a bunch of pixels. that’s why I thought it might be something with the LCD driver, anything you might know about :-)
13:35:29Horrorcat*as of the middle of the 6th line
13:35:39pamauryyeah but that might be because of memory corruption
13:35:52Horrorcatwill see if I can reproduce
13:36:13Horrorcatif I can, I’ll try whether I can reproduce with the default theme :)
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13:40:07pamaury[Saint]: prof_wolfff: the FS rewrite kept dircache but as far as I understand, the old code had a bunch of dircache-specific optimization in database and playlist that does not exist anymore. But honestly I don't remember the details
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14:20:03Slasheriram caching for tagcache should work without dircache code except to cache filename table then tagcache needs dircache to provide direct pointers to each file. If ram caching is not working at all, probably something else was screwed or too many parts disabled of the tagcache code
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14:43:00pamaurySlasheri: yeah but if you don't cache filenames, that can kill performance on HDD I think. But yeah my guess is some things might have been disabled by mistake
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14:44:54Slasheriit shouldn't kill browsing speed for artists, albums, titles etc. but it's really a long time since I have touched the code so I don't remember for sure
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14:48:09wodzTheSeven: Is there a way to rebuild FTL mappings in n2g? After many, many unclean unmounts during usb testing the device started to throw i/o errors and I cannot format data partition anymore.
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16:47:44barrett9hI have some ideas for what a player should behave, and would like to try to implement it. Since I would like it to work on many platforms, including on my mp3 player, I thought it would be a good idea to use rockbox as a base, instead of starting from scratch.
16:48:57barrett9hI have experience with C, but I'm a total rockbox newbie (as a programmer).
16:49:48barrett9hIs it easy to modify the interface, or add a completely new interface to it?
16:50:23Horrorcatdefine interface
16:50:44barrett9hwhat the buttons does, the menus, how you select music, etc
16:50:47Horrorcatyou can do quite a few bits with themes, and the keymaps are easily modified (provided you want to recompile rockbox), but I’m really not sure what you want to do
16:50:49barrett9huser interface
16:51:25barrett9hI want also to change how music is selected, like dynamic playlists..
16:52:55barrett9hlike, the default is shuffle mode. I want to play a specific music, so I select it, add to the playlist, select another too. Only after the current music (from shuffle mode) finishes, my two selected files play, then it resumes shuffle mode.
16:52:57gevaertsThere's a lot you *can* do, but it's probably hard to say how easy it all is
16:52:57barrett9hstuff like that
16:54:42gevaertsHmmm, doesn't "queue next" do that?
16:54:54*gevaerts isn't sure how that interacts with shuffle
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17:02:02tpryeah it's pretty easy to screw with rockbox
17:02:15tprstart at root_menu.c and work your way to the function you want
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18:03:56elensilI found this regarding IAP
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18:08:40saratogai think theres newer ones floating around Chinese websites
18:10:16pamaurypersonally I have a copy of iPod Specification Accessory Protocol Interface Release R30 (dated 2007), 278 pages
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21:07:16andyp_I also have a copy of iPod Extended Interface Specification Release R21 (dated 2007) 114 pages, mainly covering Mode 04 commands
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22:53:15edhelasandyp_: I confirm that it doesn't work on the Photo, maybe the mapping is different
22:53:51edhelasalso it seems that there is an issue with the dock connector when the top connector is used at the same time
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23:01:31andyp_The code only allows for dock or top connector. As its a state machine I couldn't find a way for both to work together, so its one or the other, selectable.
23:02:18andyp_As for the mapping, I'll try to look through the code for the Photo and the 1G Mini, but I've never tried dissembling ARM code.
23:05:14andyp_First I need a decent dissembler, unless someone has already dissembled the serial code in the OF for these devices?
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23:57:36__builtinwhat's the state of the Classic bootloader?

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