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#rockbox log for 2016-08-15

00:00:07Hoshiin oscilloscope
00:00:30Hoshiwhen you launch it and the bar will went to max right and goes away from the screen, the whole e384 freezes
00:00:34Hoshii dont know about other devices
00:00:40robertdafter menuconfig i unset then export
00:01:29pamauryrobertd: I am not sure I understand what you mean
00:01:43pamauryanyway I found the problem
00:01:47pamauryI needed gcc-multilib
00:02:46robertdpamaury just before running ./ct-ng build
00:03:05pamauryyou misunderstand, my problem is when running ct-ng build
00:03:42pamauryhaha, this time it was successful, ct-ng managed to build the kernel headers :)
00:04:08robertdmy mistake, i am at a much early stage
00:05:11pamauryhum this is odd, now stage 2 gcc fails, because it needs kernel headers, but I have them !!
00:05:47[Saint]saratoga: yeah - that's a messy one, and the historical answer appears to be yes, but...
00:06:11[Saint]It is really unclear how far one should go there with credits and contributors.
00:06:24saratogai thought contributors means svn/git access?
00:06:37[Saint]Like, if it's just a third party submission, for instance - do we follow the chain of attribution? Give attribution to the original author?
00:08:10pamauryahhh, apparently the glic version I chose is too recent, it does like the 2.6.23 kernel
00:08:15fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 600 seconds.
00:08:16fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 9868da4 result: All green
00:10:03pamauryglibc 2.19 is latest one to support kernels before 2.6.32
00:11:15[Saint]It hasn't really happened to often, but if Johnny submits something that he cloned verbatim from Timmy, which Timmy cloned verbatim from Tommy, who did so from Billy - does Billy get sole attribution?
00:11:27 Join __builtin_testin [0] (
00:12:08pamauryI am not sure we usually give credits for translation
00:12:09robertdpamaury in the source code is 2.7 glibc
00:12:22pamauryrobertd: I know but ct-ng does not support glibc 2.7
00:12:43pamaurymy plan is to build another glibc statically so that it does not interfere with the system one
00:12:58 Quit __builtin_testin (Client Quit)
00:13:01[Saint]pamaury: it certainly seems to be the case that we credit all contributors.
00:13:11[Saint]I would hope we hadn't missed any but it is certainly possible.
00:13:19 Join __builtin_testin [0] (
00:13:47[Saint]Only case I can think of offhand where we didn't do so directly was the weird real name dance with with the one individual I won't call attention to.
00:15:36pamaury[Saint]: yeah maybe you are right, that makes sense, my statement was most probably inaccurate
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00:23:04saratogacan anyone here read Chinese and double check that this translation is ok? I would like to commit
00:23:31pamauryrobertd: here are my notes and config so far: pamaury/a517610e0c53a64dd3a8de06220c9c0c"> and
00:23:31pamauryit's not finished and I don't know if it builds everything yet
00:23:34[Saint]The eternal struggle with translations.
00:24:02[Saint]Deep down, I like to think people smuggled in dick jokes and other people just roll with it because the find it hilarious.
00:24:03pamauryrobertd: so far, I've made it to cc_core_pass_2
00:24:47robertdpamaury thanks just in one day !
00:28:28[Saint]If this is your first, or an infrequent, encounter with pamaury - then prepared to be continually amazed.
00:28:28[Saint]He's ever so modest, and likes to downplay the fact, but the man is ab absolute savant at pulling things apart.
00:28:46[Saint]He's like the Rain Man of reverse engineering.
00:30:18pamaurywell I still feel humiliated by the yp-r0 toolchain adn amazed that TheSeven managed to build it
00:31:24robertdit is really amazing. I have been trying to build the cross compiler to use with the nwz for months
00:31:52saratogaif you get it built, add to a virtual machine and upload it somewhere?
00:32:22[Saint]saratoga: I have a prebuilt version of it - likely the same version we've all been carrying around for years.
00:32:57[Saint]shedding all the useless cruft in it would be really nice, though.
00:33:45Hoshifound another bug, snake1 freezes input
00:33:54Hoshioh gosh
00:34:51[Saint]Hoshi: one thing you'll perhaps learn pretty quickly is that for a lot of ports, especially the more recent ones, plugins were developed to the extent that they had keymaps and compiled.
00:35:18Hoshiok, im just reporting
00:35:21[Saint]I really don't think anyone except __builtin would be disappointed if all the non-viewer plugins disappeared, to be honest.
00:35:24Hoshifound three bugs today under e384
00:35:37Hoshimost of them are useless
00:35:41Hoshiespecially demos
00:35:59[Saint]Uselss /now/, yes. But remember this project predates smartphones by a good measure.
00:36:02Hoshithey are only good for benchmarking
00:36:08[Saint]That stuff used to be _amazing_.
00:36:46[Saint]Now it is regarded as common place, kitchy, and just weird.
00:37:04Hoshibut its stiil nice hobby
00:37:14Hoshii found my old mp4 and joined that channel yesterday
00:37:40saratogaHoshi: i think if you're not interested in working on the plugins, its probably not necessary to try and test them
00:37:51[Saint]The audio side of Rockbox is still very much relevant, and even some of the viewer plugins are a lot better than their modern counterparts.
00:38:04[Saint]The jpeg/png viewer is an obvious example.
00:38:10[Saint]amazingly fast and efficient.
00:38:37[Saint]Convenience is a tradeoff though.
00:39:42pamauryyouhou, /me has reached the state where the cross gcc is built ! Fingers crossed
00:40:21pamauryof course this will all be pointless if the builds don't work on the target because of <insert of many possible version incompatibilities>
00:40:36Hoshi[Saint] what player do you have?
00:40:51[Saint]Hoshi: probably easier to list the ones I don't have.
00:40:53Hoshii remember that you was there... i helped pamaury debug e384 two years ago
00:40:59Hoshioh nice
00:41:49Hoshiif i could try to search i should find an maybe 10, but actually im here because i have e384, e474, ipod nano 5g, some other not really important
00:42:01[Saint]My go-to devices are a couple of solid state converted iPods, though. Classic, Video, and 4G/Colour.
00:42:28[Saint]iPod Nano 5G is really really really unlikely to happen.
00:43:55[Saint]An individual would need to really love that device, and have a deep seated loathing for themselves, to persue that avenue.
00:45:37saratogabluebrother: did you get a chance to look at the rockbox utility ipod classic stuff?
00:45:46[Saint]Freemyipod has execution on the Nano 4G, but we're limited to poking around in the RAM area because there's no way to get storage access without a LOT of work.
00:46:12saratogaprof_wolfff: were you going to commit the AMSv2 USB support? I think it can safely go in now
00:46:28pamauryyeah that seems kinda of really hard, especially given that each generation has less documentation than the previous one
00:46:35[Saint]In theory there's most of a port for the iPod Nano 3G sitting in the Rockbox tree already, but that suffers the same issue as the Nano 4G in that it would take a lot of work to address the storage.
00:46:59pamaury[Saint]: you are referring to the flash and FTL ?
00:47:02[Saint]The actual exploit and execution method used for the initial Classic work was actually discovered on the iPod Nano 3G
00:47:04[Saint]pamaury: yeah
00:47:14[Saint]The FTL is a real showstopper there.
00:47:23pamauryOMG, I did it !! I built a cross compiler for the sony :) Admitely not the one from sony but hey ;)
00:47:25[Saint]But I don't watch the iPhone communities closely.
00:47:37[Saint]Perhaps they've made advances.
00:47:55pamauryI think on iphone they aim at jailbreaking
00:48:07[Saint]I still feel sorry for the poor guy who found the exploit that allowed the Classic/6G port to happen.
00:48:21pamaurywhy ?
00:48:30saratogathe french translation could also use some help
00:48:33[Saint]His poor little almost-universally-hated Nano 3G never actually saw any love from the exploit he found.
00:49:13pamaurysaratoga: ok I'll have a look tomorrow
00:49:29[Saint]The Nano 3G is like a weird transitional device, in many regards. It was never very popular at all, and internally it is all over the show.
00:49:45 Quit paulk-collins (Quit: Leaving)
00:49:54saratogaanyway, sonce USB is working on AMSv2 and the ipod classic has an installer, i really want to do the 3.14 release
00:50:17[Saint]It is like an iPhone, a iPod Nano, and an iPod Video had a 3-way and their child was deformed because they were all closely related.
00:50:37pamauryrobertd: the ct-ng config I posted compiles
00:50:46pamaurytomorrow I'll try to test on device
00:51:04*pamaury doesn't know why people would hate the nano 3G
00:51:54[Saint]It didn't appeal to anyone who actually liked the Nano form factor at all.
00:52:17[Saint]Nor anyone who liked the iPod form factor, because it was flash based and as such had a tiny storage space.
00:52:20pamauryah I see, it's the kinda of deformed one
00:52:41[Saint]right, like almost literally a baby Video.
00:53:31[Saint]Then they went all weird again with that square touchscreen Nano 6G and then just nuked the Nano program altogether.
00:53:40pamauryit's a bit of shame, I mean the nano 7G has a nice form factor, it could be a good small device, but it's just unthinkable to crack it at this point
00:54:08[Saint]Oh - huh, yeah, you're right. I forgot the Nano 7G even existed.
00:54:15pamaurythe 6g is very weird
00:54:33[Saint]It made a nice watch.
00:54:44[Saint]I kinda saw it as a gateway to smart watches.
00:55:03[Saint]it was a really awful DAP though.
00:55:05robertdpamaury i was just trying to compile it with your instructions
00:55:09saratogai wonder how many of our users would even want a 16GB player though
00:55:56pamauryrobertd: I am going to bed, good luck, just post on the channel if you have any problem, I read the logs
00:56:22[Saint]the audio on it was laughably bad, so if you just crushed everything down to speex or 28k opus, you probably would'nt even notice!
00:56:36pamauryrobertd: don't forget to the read the README !
00:57:16robertdpamaury thank you for all the effort. this is the only place that could acomplish that. Even for the ereader I had to use a generic compliler
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01:14:10Hoshiso, there is nice adventure to someone who would mind ipod nano 5g
01:14:52Hoshiits very likely to happen this system is exploitable, but how? buffer overflow?
01:15:46Hoshii dont remember an ipod nano 5g filesystem architecture but maybe way to load an game as an entry
01:15:55Hoshiinteresing so far
01:18:11Hoshibut i hate the freemyipod released the exploit before 5g... but i can mind that its not really big market like sony/nintendo devices while every exploit is released with really thought way, because of software/hardware update
01:20:57[Saint]Basically the only way a Nano 5G port is going to happen is if someone like yourself gets the skill and determination required to do so and makes it happen.
01:21:19[Saint]I assure you no one in the Rockbox project direct is working on it, nor have they ever expressed any desire to do so.
01:21:41[Saint]Far too much work for very little gain.
01:27:26__builtinHoshi: a bunch of plugins appear not to work
01:27:45__builtinbut that's a feature ;)
01:28:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:50:05Hoshi__builtin i would say it's crazy feature, because it lets my player stupid or stuck like my sister does often :P
01:51:09[Saint]Did someone let their Markov chain bot out to play in the real world?
01:56:10 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 47.0.1/20160623154057])
01:57:31 Quit idonob_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:01:30HoshiAnyway, I think the ipod nano 5g can be an pure black box. It's so basic device, we don't know so much about an software, the persons from freemyipod didnt hack anything (because they cant or because they are lazy, this is an question)
02:10:53[Saint]It is absolutely not "so basic device".
02:11:09[Saint]It's that type of thinking that detracts from the work people actually do here.
02:11:46[Saint]That (wildly incorrect) statement devalues the work of those who made efforts to gain execution on these devices.
02:14:21[Saint]And it isn't about not being able to, or being "lazy". This is a hobby. People work on the devices they own personally and are interested in working on.
02:14:39HoshiAnyway, I know, its an bad word.
02:14:53[Saint]If you want Rockbox on the Nano 5G, and believe it to be easy to achieve - by all means, do so.
02:15:01HoshiI dont mean its easy
02:15:44HoshiBut you know, they found vuln in the simplest way to load an code, in the simplest application that can handle files - notes.
02:16:39[Saint]that method hasn't been used in years and was never viable on the 5G to begin with.
02:16:40HoshiI mean, is there an other way to load code from filesystem than bufferoverflow? If yes? Maybe will gonna interest in it.
02:17:16HoshiThere is no bugless programm, until its linux lol :P
02:17:31HoshiI would mind they MUST somewhere broke the implementation of code.
02:18:27[Saint]Linux kernel is bugless huh?
02:18:27[Saint]Interesting theory...
02:18:32saratogathe ipods usually have extremely complex hardware
02:18:48saratogaso porting anything to them tends to be extremely complex
02:18:49Hoshilinux kernel is not bugless in terms of security, but its still blackbox
02:19:19[Saint]Actually, I'm not even sure what you think you mean by that.
02:19:48Hoshiah gosh i was learnt the way linux is really secure
02:20:31Hoshiand coders patch the every hole in the security day after, and kernel ships in the same week
02:20:46saratogaprobably a ton of much, much easier devices to work on unless someone really likes the Nano
02:21:06saratogaand wants to spend a very long time working on it
02:21:08Hoshinwz-e474 is interesing
02:21:33Hoshiit runs linux, and pamaury with robertd taked an idea of hacking the nwz line
02:21:39[Saint]And, yes, in general the Linux kernel has a fast update path for vulnerabilities - but that is pretty much entirely meaningless to the concept of enbedded devices.
02:21:56Hoshii know
02:22:18Hoshiso we could use somehow old exploits on mp4 that run linux?
02:22:47[Saint]I can't think of any that do run a pure Linux kernel.
02:22:56Hoshiits like android, i know
02:23:04Hoshibut they have parts of it
02:23:09Hoshiwhy it would be not possible?
02:24:29[Saint]You seem to think this is vastly less complicated than it is.
02:24:30[Saint]Lets say, for the sake of conversation, that there are devices out there running a mainline linux kernel...
02:24:43[Saint]How do you intend on getting a payload to the device in the first place?
02:24:54saratogayou can use any exploit that exists in your device, but first you have to find one...
02:25:48 Quit nlogex (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
02:25:49[Saint]If there's no update path for the device, or if there is, and it only accepts signed images and the key ins't known - there's your best chance out the window immediately.
02:26:34[Saint]So then you need to resort to finding some esoteric device-specific vulnerability just so you can deploy /another/ exploit.
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02:56:27fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 6a1644c, 255 builds, 15 clients.
02:58:18prof_wolfffsaratoga: i just committed the designware patch for AMSv2, the only problem that could happen is that AFAIK there has never been tested in fuzev2 and clipv2, should work well or need small changes in configuration if the USB designware core on these devices is not exactly the same as the clipzip and clipplus, i think it is not the case but do not know much about Sansa HW
03:01:56[Saint]prof_wolfff: I think that, because we have an exist plan available via dual-boot, that forcing users to confront this is the "right" way to handle it.
03:02:24[Saint]We'll know very quickly if it presents issues.
03:03:44prof_wolfffsure, in addition it could be easily disabled for each specific target
03:07:11fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 643 seconds.
03:07:12fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 6a1644c result: All green
03:28:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:15:31saratogaprof_wolfff: I tested the clipv2, I think the only device we didn't try was fuzev2, but it should work
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12:30:40pamauryprof_wolfff: congrats on the usb, you really did an amazing job from what I hear :)
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13:28:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:46:12pamauryrobertd (logs): are you sure you started from a clean directory ? this looks like a persmission problem
13:47:18lebelliumdid anyone notice that on YP-R0 or Sansa Clip (I expect all devices with the same DAC), there is a huge volume gap between FM radio and music playback? If you switch from FM radio to music playback, you almost get your ears damaged.
13:47:56lebelliumIt could come from the early 2015 commit reducing noise and distortion at high volume.
13:48:16pamaurylebellium: can you bisect the problem ?
13:48:34lebelliumYeah I could try
13:48:44lebelliumI read it from here:
13:48:47pamauryit is quite possible that some rework commit forgot that the FM input does not go through the DAC amplifier
13:48:50lebelliumand I just checked myself
13:52:13lebelliumI bet this comes from;a=commit;h=42219b6
13:52:16lebelliumbut I'll bisect it
13:52:58*pamaury has a look
13:53:53lebelliumyou also fixed another related problem here;a=commit;h=6f54a86
13:56:04pamauryyeah I remember, that was another problem, the previous commit forgot that the as3514 driver in fact handles as3543 which has a different volume range
13:59:34pamaurylebellium: ok I need to read the AS3543 doc carefully again, I'll do that this afternoon
14:00:05lebelliumDo you still need me to bisect it and confirm this comes from this commit?
14:00:24pamauryyeah please
14:00:40pamauryjust to confirm I am not chasing a ghost in this commit ;)
14:00:52pamauryit's easy though: try the commit before and after
14:01:05pamauryno need to do a real bisect if you are confident this is the one
14:06:22dongslebellium: do you get weird noise on sansa clip during recording periodically
14:06:53lebelliumdon't know, I never record voice or fm
14:06:58dongs < like this
14:07:11dongsits always there on rockbox with various intervals :)
14:07:19dongsand I have mayn, many sansa clips
14:07:38lebelliumoh yeah this one, I guess it's just the famous CPU noise on Clip
14:07:43dongso yea?
14:07:48dongsis that in playback too?
14:08:05lebelliumwhen skipping to next track I guess
14:08:19dongshmm this is in continuous mic recordings
14:08:32dongsevery i donno.. 30+mins i gues,s i never really counted how often it happens
14:09:31dongsat least im not going insane.
14:09:42dongsi just thought all my clips were cursed or something
14:10:15lebelliumwell I'm not that surprised. There are many noises here and there in Clip
14:10:34lebelliumI can't reproduce this one right now but for example when changing the volume down or up, there is one
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14:17:37pixelmaIIRC there's also noise in Sansa Clip recordings when the display is on
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14:40:16pamauryaren't the clip/fuze infamous for their cpu noise ?
14:58:01dongspixelma: display is off on these
14:58:38dongsnoise comes up randomly, i should really stick one in a quiet place and record for ~hours and see if the pattern of this clicking is intermittent or consistent
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15:47:20lebelliumpamaury: it's not the commit I thought. In 42219b6 there wasn't such a volume gap
15:48:12lebelliumthe problem is that bisecting on Clip Zip is a pain. USB almost never works in Rockbox and using the OF takes also so much time because of the slow "refreshing media" after each disconnecting from the PC
15:49:07pamaurylebellium: it's likely the bug comes from a commit in the as driver
15:49:12pamaurythere are only 4 recents of those:
15:50:21pamaurylebellium: can you check if 3e5e9cf7 is the culprit ?
16:03:15lebellium3e5e9cf7 is bad. Now checking the commit just before to be sure 3e5e9cf7 introduced the issue
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16:04:17munkisis there a limit on the number of viewers in the open-with menu?
16:06:02pamaurymunkis: I think you asked yesterday and the answer is "none that I know about", but unless you describe a specific problem it's to say more
16:07:44munkisim sorry i thought it was missed due to my other question. after adding 10 entries to viewers.config my fuze+ open with system started dropping viewers
16:08:19pamaurywhat do you mean by "dropping viewers" ?
16:09:45lebelliumpamaury: ok confirmed 3e5e9cf7 is the culprit
16:10:09pamaurylebellium: ok I'll have a closer look
16:11:14pamaurymunkis: ok you are right, there is a hard limit of 56 viewers total on most targets
16:12:34 Quit Ivoah (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
16:14:45munkispamaury: is that viewers or filetype entries?
16:15:08pamauryfrom what I understand, there can be at most 56 viewers and 192 filetypes
16:15:24pamauryyou can have a look at the code in apps/filetypes.c
16:15:32pamaurythe code is not super clear to be honest
16:16:12pamaurylebellium: can you test a theory for me ?
16:17:03pamauryin a culprit build, set a volume with DAC, then switch to line in (radio I guess ?): the volume should be very loud now. Then change the volume slightly. If my theory is right, it will be back to a normal level
16:23:30munkispamaury: so 17 viewers should work fine
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16:24:38pamaurymunkis: I am not sure how the code works, it may be that the array is also partially filled with builtin viewers
16:24:57pamaurythe best way to know is to do a custom build of the firmware with some debugging to know
16:25:44munkisI'll try that, thanks.
16:26:08lebelliumpamaury: I'm not sure I understood properly: the volume is higher in music playback than in FM radio. So if I set a volume in music playback and then switch to radio, the volume won't be high
16:26:45pamaurylebellium: ah ok, and if you change the volume after that, does it stay low or does it "jumps" back to a normal level ?
16:26:53pamaury(in radio)
16:30:30lebelliumI guess you found out something but I'm a bit lost, I try to understand the behaviour
16:31:35lebelliumlooks like that for the same displayed volume, the volume may chang
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16:32:06pamauryI am trying to understand the code logic, I am not sure I am on something, but my test is simple:
16:32:07pamaury* play a file
16:32:07pamaury* set a volume that is reasonable (call it volume A)
16:32:07DBUGEnqueued KICK pamaury
16:32:07pamaury* switch to radio
16:32:07pamaury* now volume is low (let's call it B)
16:32:10pamaury* now change volume slightly (press volume up or down once)
16:32:12pamaury* is the new volume (what you hear, not see) still almost the same as B or is it back to A ?
16:34:14lebelliumwell I have a problem here because both volumes are more or less identical
16:34:28lebelliumI'm wondering if the gap is not increasing from a certain level
16:34:55pamauryah yes sorry, you need the initial DAC volume to be pretty high
16:35:11pamauryI am not sure the bug exists at lower levers
16:36:06pamaurythe threshold must be somewhere around ~2dB, so that's very loud for the DAC, keep your headphones far your hears !
16:37:40lebelliumpressing volume up or down doesn't make it back to normal
16:38:02pamauryok, but you confirm there is a huge gap between DAC and radio ?
16:40:03lebelliumyes, when I'm at a normal volume in radio (let's say -38dB), switching to music playback is very loud. I have to lower the volume up to -48dB to get a similar volume as the radio
16:40:52pamauryall right, I *think* I know what the problem is
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17:04:31pamauryI am not sure yet I found the bug, I might need you to run a custom build with some logf debugging if I cannot confrm it by reading the code
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17:09:52pamaurylebellium: does the bug manifest itself it you use the radio and use a normal listening level and then switch to DAC (but without changing the volume) ?
17:10:17pamaury*if you
17:11:36pamauryahhh, I think I understand the problem now, so yeah clearly if you switch from a low radio level to DAC, you hear might explode
17:19:21munkisproblem just dissapeared im guessing it was an issue in my config file. thanks pamaury
17:20:47pamaurylebellium: I almost have a fix (I think)
17:26:19pamaurythis is odd, either there is dead code or some pp/amsv2 target have broken radio/recording /me thinks
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17:32:58pamaurylebellium: can you try with g#1369 ?
17:33:00fs-bluebot_3Gerrit review #1369 at : 3as3543: fix audio gap when switching from dac to line-in/recording by Amaury Pouly
17:34:13pamaurylebellium: for testing, can you try each four transitions below, with the old and new build:
17:34:13pamaury1) low volume: radio -> dac
17:34:13pamaury2) low volume: dac -> radio
17:34:13pamaury3) high volume: radio -> dac
17:34:13pamaury4) high volme: dac -> radio
17:35:10pamauryI think only 1) was really broken/dangerous
17:38:06lebellium /home/ubuntu/rockbox/apps/usb_keymaps.c:52: error: ‘LANG_MULTIMEDIA_MODE’ undeclared here (not in a function)
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17:40:10pamaurylebellium: make clean
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17:57:38lebelliumI think we have a problem :D
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17:57:53lebelliumwith the patch, the FM radio stops working at some time
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17:59:53lebelliumwell, the radio works (RDS is working) but no sound at all
18:00:19lebelliumlooks like it sometimes occurs when switching from DAC to radio
18:02:02 Quit Hoshi (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
18:02:31pamaurylebellium: you mean when switcing sometimes it does not work ?
18:02:39pamauryand if you change the volume after that ?
18:03:49pamaurylebellium: ok I see why, my mistake
18:04:38 Quit __builtin (Quit: ZNC 1.7.x-git-unknown -
18:04:54pamaurylebellium: I have updated g#1369
18:04:55fs-bluebot_3Gerrit review #1369 at : 3as3543: fix audio gap when switching from dac to line-in/recording by Amaury Pouly
18:05:29pamauryhum wait
18:05:43pamaurythere is still a bug
18:07:51lebelliumpfff I'm getting those ATA errors again on my clip zip :(
18:09:38pamaurylebellium: I have updated again g#1369, hopefully this should work
18:09:39fs-bluebot_3Gerrit review #1369 at : 3as3543: fix audio gap when switching from dac to line-in/recording by Amaury Pouly
18:10:15 Quit elensil (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
18:14:48lebellium home/ubuntu/rockbox/firmware/drivers/audio/as3514.c:314: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘;’ token
18:14:59lebelliumhome/ubuntu/rockbox/firmware/drivers/audio/as3514.c:326: error: expected ‘,’ or ‘;’ before ‘}’ token
18:15:59pamauryah I should have tried to compile it
18:16:30pamauryI have updated the gerrit task
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18:26:40pamauryhum in fact I am dumb, I just realized I have a clip zip, I could have tested it myself! Though my zip is probably taking dust somewhere
18:27:04lebelliumnot better, no sound in radio all the time now
18:28:30pamauryhuh, really ??
18:29:26lebelliumI think it would be a good idea to find and charge your Clip Zip /p
18:29:32pamauryI must have forgotten something
18:30:34pamauryit's charging, but the battery is super low right now
18:30:35lebelliumbut still, even with patch v1, I didn't have the impression it really helped. Indeed, the problem is more for high volume than low volume.
18:30:54lebelliumat low volume, it's quite similar between DAC and radio
18:32:06lebelliumthe problem seems to be around from -40dB
18:34:05pamauryah fuuuuck, this code is crap, I just spotted another problem
18:40:11pamauryI am going to make this code MUCH clearer
18:41:34pamaurylebellium: what's the key to boot to OF ?
18:41:43lebelliumvolume down
18:51:00__builtinhow would I reformat an ipod classic properly?
18:51:07CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
18:51:07*__builtin knows that fdisk can cause issues
18:59:24pamaury__builtin: don't ipod have a factory reset thingy ?
19:00:08__builtinhmm, I found it
19:00:19__builtinthanks pamaury
19:02:26pamauryhum, my clip zip jack seems to be flaky, this is not good
19:02:56__builtinIvoah: about chex quest with doom, I haven't gotten it to work
19:03:18Ivoah__builtin: bit of a late reply there :P
19:04:03__builtinperhaps I should spend some more time on it
19:04:12__builtinthere's no reason why it shouldn't
19:06:00pamaurylebellium: the new version of g#1369 works on mine now
19:06:02fs-bluebot_3Gerrit review #1369 at : 3as3543: fix audio gap when switching from dac to line-in/recording by Amaury Pouly
19:06:16pamauryat least I can switch between dac and radio without a problem, either at high or low volume
19:06:58pamaurythere is a small volume difference between radio and dac on mine but I believe this one is simply due to the radio chip
19:07:12pamauryit would be nice if you can confirm though
19:08:39Hoshi_no work at nwz today :P?
19:09:43pamaurywell technically it's a working day... so not until I am finished at work
19:10:15lebelliumpamaury: we spent the whole afternoon on this thing though. Strange working day :P
19:11:09pamaurywell I have not been very reactive though, I would be quite useless if it took me the whole afternoon to ack ten lines of code
19:11:48pamauryyou did most of the bisecting work :-p
19:15:13pamauryand testing work
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19:21:10lebelliumyes the switching problem is fixed
19:21:26lebelliumbut I don't really see a difference with before the patch
19:23:29pamaurywell I haven't tried, but before the patch if you switched from dac to radio and back, you could end up with an incredibly high volume
19:24:31pamauryisn't this the problem you initially mentioned ?
19:27:17lebelliumwell, yes I guess it's a bit better. It's confusing because now at the same displayed volume, it's louder in radio than before the patch. That means I have to lower the volume with patch to compare better
19:27:54lebellium-37dB without patch is about -42dB with patch
19:28:13pamaurythis is strange, I haven't changed any volume
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19:29:03lebelliumthere is clearly a noticeable difference
19:30:49pamauryok I'll have a close look later
19:30:55lebelliumbut that's good
19:31:04lebelliumsince there isn't a difference for DAC
19:31:19lebelliumthat means that automatically, the volume gap with patch is smaller
19:32:18lebelliumIn radio: -37dB without patch = -42 with patch. But clearly in DAC -37dB without patch is much louder than -42dB with patch
19:35:14pamaurylebellium: so you think the problem is fixed ?
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19:40:31pamauryI'd like to replicate the original bug just to make sure though
19:40:43pamaurycan you point me to the exact head-fi post that describes it ?
19:41:22lebelliumI think the problem is fixed but it's embarrassing you didn't fix it intentionally :P
19:41:29pamaurylebellium: also I'd like to make sure this didn't break any other device, in particular the amsv1 devices. Do you have any of those to test ?
19:43:53lebelliumI have a Fuze v2
19:44:10lebelliumthat's my only AMSv1 device I guess
19:44:54pamaurywell I am a bit confused, because the bug I fixed is that when switching from radio to dac in certain occasion might yield an incorrect, very high volume. What this post describes could be an instance of it (basically because he's lucky, the very high volume only exists for a fraction of time but still).
19:45:13pamauryI cannot explain why my patch changes the the volume between radio and dac though, it doesn't make any sense
19:45:37pamaurydifference between dac and radio are to be expected, it would be naive to think you can just magically match them
19:46:11lebelliumwell I tried on Clip Zip only. I should try on my R0 too
19:47:06pamauryit would be interesting to have a look at the radio code though, because the radio probably has an amplifier that can be tweaked
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19:59:08lebelliumI confirm the volume difference in radio on YP-R0
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20:02:30pamaurylebellium: how much is the difference ? does the patch makes a difference ?
20:02:48lebelliumabout 5dB
20:03:23lebelliumwith patch, the difference between DAC and radio is acceptable
20:03:28lebelliumit won't hurt your ears
20:04:05pamauryand without the patch, is there a problem ?
20:04:18lebelliumI told you
20:04:44pamaurydid you try it at other levels ? Like -30dB or -20dB ? Because I expect the problem gets bigger at higher volumes without the patch
20:06:50 Join Hoshi [0] (
20:06:51*pamaury is trying to understand the 5dB vs 10dB difference, I believe this magic number could be 10-5 ~= -35-(-40.5) where -35 is your volume and -40.5 is the threshold volume at which something happens in the code
20:07:30Hoshiprobably its made like that for hardware
20:09:01lebelliumpamaury: that's not accurate figures. It's not easy to match 2 volumes on different devices. It's only my perception
20:09:46pamauryI know, I am just saying that with my patch, it makes sense that there is a fixed volume difference between radio and dac. But that without my patch, the problem should get worse with volume
20:10:00lebelliumnow on a different radio frequency, -25dB without patch sounds like -30db with patch too
20:10:18pamauryof course all of this depends on the radio channel and the song
20:10:33pamaurythe difference is fixed at fixed channel and fixed song
20:10:58lebelliumyeah, I did all my tests with the same song for DAC and same frequency for radio
20:11:08fs-bluebot_Build Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 5a673d6, 255 builds, 16 clients.
20:12:13lebelliumthe problem is that now at -25 or -30db I can't hardly test the switch to DAC
20:12:20lebelliumit would destroy immediately my hears
20:12:55lebelliumso it's possible the problem gets worse but not easy to test
20:13:00lebelliumI have sensitive IEM
20:13:33pamaurykeep your ears at a safe distance from the headphones ;)
20:13:54pamaurybut yeah not easy to test
20:13:54lebelliumyes but if there is a distance, the test is not reliable
20:15:03pamauryI know, but my "test" would somehow manage to differiante between "sound is loud" and "sound is incredibly super duper high". Something like 20dB should be possible I think
20:15:40pamaurya proper test would involved recording with another device though
20:15:46pamauryI may try that
20:15:57bluebrotherprof_wolfff: a general note: I would rename mk6gboot to mkipod6gboot −− mk6g is a bit ... ambiguous, even though there's only a 6g ipod :)
20:17:17saratogaits hard to compare FM volume to DAP volume since FM tends to be both compressed and low pass filtered
20:17:30saratogait'll sound louder even at the same peak to peak value
20:17:58bluebrotherI'll try to give the other rbutil bootloader related changes a look the next couple of days
20:19:03saratogaby the way, did we ever agree on dropping HWCODEC from the next release? I believe people thought newer builds were not better than older but i'm not sure
20:19:06pamaurysaratoga: we are talking about a bug that would create a potentially huge difference, like 20dB or more
20:19:31saratogayea i'm sure that is a bug, but if he said it sounded a few dB louder (after your patch), that could be normal
20:19:50fs-bluebot_Build Server message: 3Build round completed after 521 seconds.
20:19:51fs-bluebot_Build Server message: 3Revision 5a673d6 result: All green
20:19:52fs-bluebot_Build Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 40ce2b4, 255 builds, 15 clients.
20:20:12pamauryoh yeah, sure :) Re HWCODEC I don't remember, we may have agreed that if won't object if someone do the work of removing HWCODEC
20:20:43saratogai don't think we need to remove it, just don't release 3.14 for it
20:21:04saratogasince most people seemed to think older builds were better than current git
20:21:27saratogaif someone wants to work on it more i'm all for doing future releases again, just not sure it makes sense now
20:22:03pamauryah yeah we agreed to potentially not release anymore for hwcodec and create a branch for the last released/known working version with hwcodec
20:22:43saratogapamaury: can you add any additional devices you want to make stable:
20:22:51pamauryalso hwcodec somehow includes the SH CPU and LCD_CHARCELL
20:23:01pamaurysaratoga: yes
20:23:49pamaurysaratoga: ping me again in one hour if I'm not done, I'm trying to finish some work tonight
20:24:11saratogaoh sure, whenever you get a chance, its not critical
20:28:03fs-bluebot_Build Server message: 3Build round completed after 492 seconds.
20:28:04fs-bluebot_Build Server message: 3Revision 40ce2b4 result: All green
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22:03:08lebelliumpamaury: I found a classical music frequency where high volume is bearable. -10dB without patch, 0dB with patch to get similar volume
22:04:13lebelliumthe reverse, sorry
22:05:57Hoshiif the 5g is reconnecting in loop on windows, its cable or driver fault?
22:06:10Hoshii have windows 10, nano was turned into disk mode so it should work anyway
22:32:55pamaurylebellium: I am confused now. I did some tests on the device and basically the problem I had in mind does not really exists because luckily the radio code set the volume when the radio starts. This means that my patch should in theory not change any volume, but rather reduce the volume of a potential "pop" when switching
22:40:03lebelliumdid you notice the volume difference?
22:40:26lebelliumif you don't have 2 devices it may be hard to test though
22:40:39pamaurythat's hard to test, I only have one device
22:40:53pamauryso basically without the patch, I cannot trigger any bug
22:41:17pamaurybecause the bug only exists for a fraction of a second and is apparently not enough to produce a huge pop
22:43:41lebelliumwell I don't hear a "pop" nor the hissing the ABI user was referring to.
22:44:07lebelliumfor me the bug was only the volume gap between dac and radio
22:44:56pamauryso your compare with two devices in parallel ? the same device ?
22:45:13lebellium4 devices
22:45:17lebellium2 Clip Zip, 2 RO
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23:03:58pamaurylebellium: when you tried with and without the patch, did you apply the patch on current HEAD ?
23:04:29lebelliumyou can provide me a patched build if you want to make sure
23:06:59lebelliumI sometimes make local changes in the rockbox directory without applying a proper patch, which might remain even after git reset −−hard origin/master
23:07:02lebelliumdon't know
23:09:56 Quit idonob (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
23:10:03pamauryI trust you, I am just scratching my head, because I can't really hear the difference and I don't see how the code could create one
23:13:40pamauryah wait I think I found out
23:14:30pamaurythe old code may overwrite some initial audio setup whereas my patch keeps them
23:15:13pamauryin particular this mixer has an AGC feature
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23:15:49pamauryrobertd: hey :)
23:16:14pamaurylebellium: ok, I almost have a new patch a new patch to submit, just to check I am not crazy
23:16:35robertdhi pamaury, thanks for your answer. Due to a libc6-dev-i386 bug i havent been able to test today
23:16:50pamaurylebellium: hum maybe not in fact, arggg this is driving me crazy
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23:17:20pamauryrobertd: I saw your message in the log but this doesn't look like a 32-bit error, it was something about build.log permission
23:17:36lebelliumpamaury: lol, don't get crazy for that :)
23:17:36pamaurywhat is your error now ?
23:18:42robertdpamaury the libc6-dev-i386 required for compiling are conflicting with the amd64. That and a locale error in glibc
23:19:23pamauryrobertd: what is your distrib ?
23:19:47robertdpamaury debian 64
23:19:52pamaurywhich version ?
23:20:10robertdpamaury jesse 8.5
23:20:21pamauryI am running debian unstable and libc6-dev-i386 and libc6-dev are not conflicting here
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23:21:45robertdPamaury the libg-dev i386 is bug which conflicts with the i386 linux gnu
23:22:14pamaurycan you repeat that, I didn't understand
23:23:31robertdpamaury when I try to install the libc6 "trying to overwrite '/usr/include/bits', which is also in package libc6-dev-amd64:i386 2.23-4@
23:24:05pamauryah, so it's not a package conflict, it's simply a bug in the package
23:24:52pamaurybut on my system, I don't have libc6-dev-amd64 installed...
23:24:59lebelliumpamaury: I just checked to be sure. Without your patch, my local as3514.c file is exactly the same as in the Rockbox tree.
23:24:59pamauryI only have libc6-dev
23:26:25robertdPamaury, exactly my mistake was to try and install the i386 package with the libc6-dev
23:27:19pamauryit's confusing, debian has libc6-dev, libc6-dev-amd64, libc6-dev-i386 and libc6-dev-amd64:i386
23:27:53pamaurylibc6-dev-amd64:i386 is particularly hilarious
23:28:06pamauryrobertd: have you tried compiling with just libc6-dev-amd64:i386 ?
23:28:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:28:36lebelliumpamaury: going to bed now, I'm available tomorrow night if you get something
23:28:42robertdpamaury, yes but then in glibc there is a locale/subdir_install error
23:28:45pamauryok thanks for the testing
23:28:56pamauryrobertd: what is the error ?', needed by 'install-lib-nosubdir'
23:29:33 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 48.0/20160726073904])
23:31:21pamauryrobertd: can you pastebin the last lines of build.log ? hopefully I can make some sense out of it
23:31:31pamaurydid you use the same ct-ng config as me ?
23:32:20robertdpamaury yes. It is my machine config I have to sort it out. One sec please
23:33:43robertdpamaury here it is
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23:36:35pamauryrobertd: the internet says it might be a race condition in the makefile
23:37:42pamauryI would simply try again. The config I sent you is restartable, so you can execute
23:37:42pamauryct-ng <step>+
23:37:42pamauryand to find the step, look at the build.log or the output ct-ng build, you can get the list of steps by running
23:37:42pamauryct-ng list-steps
23:38:01pamaurymaybe disable parallel jobs
23:38:09pamauryI thought I did in my config but maybe not
23:39:06robertdPamaury thanks, let me give it a try. I will keep you posted
23:39:10pamauryhum wait this is strange
23:39:25pamaurythe output contains very strange paths
23:39:51pamaurydid you tweak something somewhere or changed a prefix ?
23:40:24robertdpamaury not at all, just the ../glibc-2.19/configure −−prefix=/usr/local/directory/−−exec-prefix=/usr/local/directory/−−host=x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu −−target=sony-arm-linux
23:41:09pamaurywhy/how did you change that ? didn't you forget some spaces there ?
23:42:36robertdpamaury i was going for a standalone glibc
23:43:04pamaurywhat do you mean ?
23:43:50robertdi aimed at a separated cross compiler
23:44:40pamauryI still don't understand. So first, are you using crosstool or not ?
23:45:14robertdpamaury yes, the same cross-tool
23:45:53pamauryso you just ran ct-ng build and it failed with this error ?
23:46:05pamauryand you didn't change *anything* in the configuration ?
23:46:30robertdpamauy in the configuration. no not at all
23:47:04pamaurycan you send me the .config generated by ct-ng menuconfig ?
23:47:23robertdpamaury sure one sec please
23:48:00[Saint]Bah - why can't people just idle on IRC when they ask a question?
23:48:23[Saint]The amount of people that treat IRC as a realtime support network in unfathomable.
23:48:38[Saint]It certainly /can/ be one...
23:52:08Topic"Please read before speaking: | Please stay! You may need to wait some time to get your answer, DON'T leave after a few minutes because you think nobody is there! | If you can't stay and wait, please post your question to the mailing list | This channel is logged at" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:52:23[Saint]Thanks, freemyipod /topic
23:52:56 Join robertd_ [0] (c9f2b970@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
23:53:07robertd_Pamaury sorry got dc
23:53:15[Saint]Though it isn't like anyone actually reads the /topic anyway.
23:53:34pamaury[Saint]: I was about to say it, people who do that don't read the topic
23:53:34[Saint]But I feel mildly better about myself now.
23:54:24[Saint]The guy earlier, with the Video.
23:54:24[Saint]That's a pretty classic symptom of deep discharge.
23:55:02[Saint]I suspect he's plugging it into a host port on his PC, when it needs to touch the oficial charger (preferably if he can force disk mode) for a while.
23:55:26[Saint]That's actually a feature I would like to backport to all the iPods from prof_wolfff's bootloader.
23:55:29pamauryrobertd_: actually you can send me the .config or the diff between .config and my sony-arm-linux.config, whatever is more convenient
23:55:50[Saint]His iPod Classic bootloader detects deep discharge and forces a charge before boot.
23:55:53saratogaI think he had a nano 5g not a video 5g, but it may be the same problem
23:56:02[Saint]As opposed to a constant string of failing to spin the disk up.
23:56:04robertd_pamaury this
23:56:05 Join ulmutul [0] (
23:56:27pamauryrobertd_: your link is wrong
23:56:53pamauryhuh, this doesn't make any sense
23:56:59[Saint]saratoga: ahhhh, shit, yeah - you're right.
23:56:59[Saint]Dammit, I assumed '5G' in context of targets we support.
23:57:12pamauryrobertd_: the configuration looks like this: pamaury/57ea56b8251d157291baa065eb6e87b3">
23:57:18pamauryare we talking about the same thing ?

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