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#rockbox log for 2016-11-13

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00:17:54nathan_is there a way to increase the scrolling speed in pictureflow? it's painfully slow
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07:13:41duo8emmc and not nand?
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11:17:34bluebrothergevaerts: ping
11:18:18bluebrotherI've finally managed to get a static Qt build that includes SSL support on Windows :) Some minor issues are left though
11:18:36bluebrotheralso, themes.rockbox.org doesn't support SSL. Is it intended to get that changed as well?
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12:24:53[Saint]Whatever happened to new.rockbox.org?
12:25:08[Saint]It just kinda...died.
12:25:24[Saint]Despite it being very clearly better than what we have.
12:25:33[Saint]By an order of magnitude.
12:27:54bluebrotherworks for me. Well, it shows something :)
12:28:02bluebrotherbut it's not really functional
12:28:56bluebrotheror did you talk about development of that?
12:29:52[Saint]The latter.
12:30:15bluebrotherah, ok. I think people couldn't agree on it, then some lost interest.
12:31:00[Saint]It needs updating to modern standards (again), but I'm all for deploying it. Always was.
12:31:43[Saint]What we have now looks like typical 90s HTML vomited at a page.
12:32:07bluebrothernot sure if I agree with the looks of new.r.o, but having a more decent website would be nice
12:32:45[Saint]And it is pretty widely regarded that people regard a project as being as professional as its site looks.
12:33:04[Saint]That being the case people must think us amateur.
12:34:21[Saint]I'm absolutely keen to work on it if we can agree I won't be wasting my time.
12:35:04 Join pamaury [0] (~pamaury@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
12:35:25bluebrotherwell, how many (new) users do we actually get these days?
12:35:35[Saint]Does it matter?
12:36:05[Saint]Old users think it looks shit too, I guarantee it. Just Stockholm syndrome perhaps. :P
12:36:06bluebrothermaybe. The users we already have know the website, so they shouldn't care too much −− they know why they use Rockbox.
12:36:45bluebrotherand if we don't get much new users ... well, how important is the look then? People use their phones these days, and Rockbox doesn't support those. At least to a useable degree.
12:37:23[Saint]Perhaps at least in part we have low user throughout BECAUSE of this?
12:37:56[Saint]Google will be page ranking us to oblivion for having an ancient non-optimized non-mobile site.
12:38:41[Saint]It's worth it for current users for the latter alone.
12:38:57[Saint]Using the main page and forums on mobile is near impossible.
12:39:10bluebrothertrue.
12:39:11[Saint]And when possible, completely unenjoyable.
12:39:37bluebrotherthere's a reason why I'm not doing that ;-) (though I don't need the site when mobile)
12:43:17pamaury[Saint]: personally I am fine with any reasonable modern looking website, I most probably won't object any design decision
12:44:08pamauryJust don't turn the webpage into a full-of-javascript website that requires a 4G connection to load ;)
12:44:37pamauryand yes I agree our current website is not exactly state of art ^^
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12:52:10 Nick cereal_killer is now known as Guest41387 (d5a244ef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.162.68.239)
12:53:09Guest41387[Saint]: What would an iPod with Multivolume support enabled do? Would some parts of the storage be hidden from the OF then?
12:53:35Guest41387I refer to this post: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,51555.msg238321.html#msg238321
12:56:29[Saint]The OF doesn't know or case about any secondary or tertiary (etc) partitions
12:56:36[Saint]*care
13:00
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13:02:08Guest41387the rason why I ask is if there is a way to hide partitions from the Cowon D2 OF which has a file/folder limit. I want to use the of and Rockbox, but my music collection would exceed the file/folder limt.
13:02:59Guest41387the of definately knows and cares about the second partitions (SD-card)
13:03:01 Join Senji [0] (~Senji@95-43-91-2.ip.btc-net.bg)
13:05:34[Saint]The sdcards isn't a second partition.
13:05:56[Saint]It is a distinct volume.
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13:06:49[Saint]I pretty much guarantee that if you partitioned the sdcard or internal storage into multiple volumes it wouldn't have any concept of them existing.
13:07:43[Saint]...but then you'd need support for this in Rockbox to address N* partitions.
13:08:07pamaurymultidrive is to support several distinct drive (internal storage vs sdcard), multivolume is support more than one filesystem on a single drive (ie two partitions on a sdcard for example)
13:08:35[Saint]Right, I suppose I'm conflating terms.
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13:10:24[Saint]Ignoring me screwing the terms up, I would be very surprised if the Cowon OF was designed to have any concept of multiple partitions per volume.
13:11:03[Saint]It isn't within the realms of impossibility, but I would be very surprised if they specifically accounted for it and support it.
13:11:31Guest41387oh I see. So if I partition my SD card ( a small one for the OF and a bigger one for RB) the OF would not scan the big partition and the file limit would not be exceeded?
13:11:43Guest41387I think it is worth a try
13:12:21[Saint]pamaury: is there any reason multivolume isn't enabled by default? Is there a cost to this?
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13:13:43Guest41387.rockbox should then definitely be in the bigger partition.
13:14:20[Saint]It always seemed like something that was added as a hack but it seems to me it could be genuinely useful for all targets assuming there's no cost if it isn't used.
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13:15:40[Saint]The .rockbox dir has like 300 files in or so. And it isn't immediately clear to me if this even counts towards the total file cost.
13:16:00[Saint]Afaik it only counts media files.
13:16:06[Saint]Not files total.
13:17:11pamauryI think mostly historical reason, it saves a bit of space, but iirc, multivolume is enabled as soon as you have more than one than one drive
13:17:21pamauryso really many targets have it I think
13:17:37Guest41387[Saint]: sure, but would Rockbox handle three partitions? I thought when .rockbox is on a certain partition then it would recognize it
13:18:06pamauryrockbox must be on the first partition of the first drive
13:18:20pamaury(I think)
13:18:24[Saint]yes, that.
13:18:32[Saint]Beat me to it.
13:18:38Guest41387pamaury: for the Cowon D2, .rockbox must be on the SD card
13:18:59pamaurythis is not contradictory with what I said...
13:19:00Guest41387oh, first drive is the SD card, right?
13:19:03[Saint]That's a hack, though. We can't write to the internal.
13:19:15[Saint]So, that's why it's the case there.
13:19:21pamauryyeah on the cowon there is hack to make sd the first drive
13:19:26[Saint]If we could, it wouldn't.
13:21:22Guest41387ok then, as I said I give this a try
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13:21:28Guest41387thank you both
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14:02:07gevaertsbluebrother: themes and forums are hosted by scorche|sh. Getting those to do tls would be good, but it's different management :)
14:04:40bluebrotherok. I want to change the URLs in Rockbox Utility to https when making modifications, but then I'll have to leave themes at http
14:05:16gevaertsscorche|sh: are there any plans for that?
14:05:32bluebrotherthere are some remaining issues btw. If we link openssl we need to follow the openssl license, which means we need to reproduce the license text. That's simple, we can add a license tab in the About dialog similar to the speex one
14:06:02gevaertsHmmm, yes
14:06:15gevaertsNo gnutls way to do gnutls?
14:06:25[Saint]Do we even offer a hash for our downloads? It isn't a good thing at all but I feel like no one really gives a proverbial about secure transfer.
14:06:46[Saint]I mean, it'd be good, but the lack of complaints is telling.
14:07:16bluebrother[Saint]: we don't. Well, for Windows it's a zip file which has a checksum, but since it's the same file you cannot tell if it's been tampered with. Just that the file itself isn't corrupt
14:07:19gevaertsI mean, we do have to follow the openssl license, which means AFAIU that we need to add this "exception" to the GPL, which would mean permission from all rbutil contributors
14:08:06bluebrotherhmm, we need an exception for that?
14:08:14[Saint]I mean I'm not saying https shouldn't be deployed. Don't get me wrong.
14:08:16CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
14:08:16*gevaerts tries to remember details
14:08:31bluebrotherthe Qt website states that SSL is provided by openssl. No mention of gnutls.
14:09:59bluebrotherhttps://www.openssl.org/source/license.html
14:10:02gevaertsbluebrother: https://people.gnome.org/~markmc/openssl-and-the-gpl.html is a good summary
14:10:24*bluebrother goes reading
14:10:38[Saint]We would be very screwed if we needed to get permission from all contributors.
14:10:52[Saint]How VLC managed it is beyond me.
14:10:57bluebrotheranother thing: Qt documentation states "Note: Due to import and export restrictions in some parts of the world, we are unable to supply the OpenSSL Toolkit with Qt packages."
14:11:02[Saint]I doubt we'd fare as well.
14:11:08gevaerts[Saint]: maybe. rbutil is easier than all of rockbox I guess
14:11:14bluebrotherI'm wondering if those restrictions apply to us as well
14:11:22[Saint]Ah,this is true.
14:12:17[Saint]Yeah, there's fucky export rules for "strong encryption".
14:12:29[Saint]It's all a bit nuts if you ask me.
14:12:40bluebrotherit is.
14:12:45gevaertsI'm fairly sure it's not a problem for us. We distribute from Sweden which IIRC doesn't have such laws
14:12:57[Saint]Like anyone's going to be fishing a binary out of a package when they can just bloody clone and build it.
14:14:01bluebrotherI'm also wondering why Qt isn't using the ssl stuff that's in Windows for Windows. On Linux dynamically linking to openssl should be fine since systems have that anyway
14:14:15bluebrothergevaerts: good to know.
14:18:36*gevaerts decides to break the topic in other channels to ask people about qt and ssl backends
14:22:07bluebrotherhttps://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-38400
14:22:21bluebrotherat least there seems to be _some_ interest in that.
14:23:19bluebrotherbut even latest Qt 5.7 uses openssl only, at least according to the documentation :/
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14:24:23[Saint]We should get with the cool kids and use GNULibreBackflipNeckbeardSSL
14:24:24*gevaerts dislikes the world!
14:25:20pamauryany reason to use openssl specifically?
14:25:36gevaertsYes. Qt uses that
14:25:38bluebrotherQt uses openssl
14:26:45pamauryah, makes sense
14:27:00gevaertsNot using openssl means doing http differently, which is an option of course, but it's not a quick one
14:28:05bluebrotherwell, the other option would be to not use ssl with Rockbox Utility at all.
14:28:15bluebrotherThough I'd prefer to have ssl support in ...
14:33:48pamaurysometimes this licencing stuff is really absurd
14:34:26pamauryI am really surprised that openssl, being used everywhere, keeps harassing everyone with this licence ;)
14:34:37gevaertsWell
14:34:46gevaertsThey know, and IIUC they want to change it
14:34:55gevaertsBut they have the same problem as everyone else :)
14:36:02bluebrotherthe strange thing is that libraries with such problematic licenses became pretty fundamental these days.
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15:40:15pixelmahmm, don't cats have different counts of claws an front and back (?) legs/paws like 5 and 4 - so that would be 18 claws? Maybe I'm confusing this with some other animal though...
15:40:30pixelmaargh... wrong channel. Sorry
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16:24:45johnb2Bilgus: I have been testing your patch f7a07c732c1b0ab24324091f5445dbfd7ea79e05 on a Sansa Clip+ for 2h or so.
16:27:12johnb2First of all, I like the UI a lot: it has simple logic and is very effective.
16:27:12johnb2I have not noticed any negative effects or interference with "First ButtonPress ...".
16:27:12johnb2However, it isn't working completely reliably (i.e. maybe in 30% of the cases display turns on. I ave not figured out the logic/sequence though).
16:27:12DBUGEnqueued KICK johnb2
16:27:12johnb2Volume keys are very stable, I had only one occasion when the screen turned on.
16:27:12johnb2Play, Seek and Skip every now and then turned on the display.
16:27:12***Alert Mode level 1
16:27:12johnb2For Play (=Pause) it sometimes stayed off, but turned on on Resume.
16:27:12***Alert Mode level 2
16:27:12johnb2I still like it a lot and will keep it on the device. I intend to use Volume and Play going forward.
16:27:13***Alert Mode level 3
16:27:13johnb2I have uploaded the build for clip+ here:
16:27:13***Alert Mode level 4
16:27:13johnb2https://app.box.com/s/ycizz4526d0dv2oq4wkhvu10qim29ktg
16:28:02johnb2if others also want to test.
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16:37:14***Alert Mode OFF
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17:18:44 Join Bilgus [0] (ae6611d9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.102.17.217)
17:18:55Bilgusjohnb2:
17:19:27BilgusWait a few I'm about to upload a much different version of this
17:20:08BilgusI totally redesigned the action mechanism in the last day it is much more stable now
17:20:35Bilgusthe majority of it is already up in gerrit but i have a few things to polish yet
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17:22:42johnb2Bilgus
17:22:54johnb2: Ok, I will check again.
17:24:11johnb2BTW, I just tested it on the Fuze V2 and during volume change (i.e. using the scroll wheel) the screen is flickering, but when finished turns off again.
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17:27:12Bilguswhen did you grab the patch you are using currently?
17:33:33johnb2roughly 4 or 5 hours ago
17:38:26Bilgusok that is the current mechanism ill have you try the new one maybe the scroll wheel turns on the backlight in its code somewhere
17:40:36Bilgusill let you know when its up..
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17:48:13[Saint]It should.
17:48:32[Saint]Re: scrollwheel.
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17:59:11BilgusI'm a bit too dense to get what you are saying lol
18:00
18:00:19Bilgusnm I see it in target dir
18:04:12Bilgusugh that makes this slightly more complicated
18:05:33[Saint]All the scrollwheel targets will behave this way.
18:05:46[Saint]In case you're thinking it's just a few.
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18:20:10Bilgusno i'm just going to make a function that enables a global backlight wait instead of a backlight_on_wait() function
18:20:45Bilgusthat way nothing has to be changed with backlight_on and a bunch of conditionals across the code
18:34:11Bilguswhat does SHAREDBSS_ATTR signify? preprocessor command?
18:36:04lebelliumpamaury: is there already something to try out?
18:36:51pamauryyes, I have a dualboot program working. You can't real dualboot since I haven't pushed the linux code but at least you can try it out see if work and is nice
18:36:54pamaurywhat is your device?
18:36:56pamaurylebellium: ^
18:37:07pamauryBilgus: it's a memory attribute
18:37:46pamauryit means in BSS (ie the data that is initialized to 0 when rockbox starts) and SHARED means it can be used by both cpu and coprocessor on target that have one
18:38:14Bilgusyeah so its bss then?
18:38:24lebelliumpamaury: A850. But in the end I don't want a brick like your E460 :P
18:38:25Bilgusoh nm
18:38:45pamaurylebellium: don't worry, it was a stupid bug, I made a typo and rm -rf the root filsystem :-p
18:38:46Bilgusgot it thx
18:39:10pamauryand I recovered my E460 in the end
18:40:14pamaurylebellium: I don't think you have the sony toolchain installed?
18:40:27lebelliumI assume not
18:41:05pamauryah, at the moment it's a little bit tricky to build it, I haven't made a proper modification of rockboxdev.sh, that's my next step. So either you wait for that, or I send you a prebuilt binary
18:41:27lebelliumI can wait too :)
18:41:31pamauryI think it's safe to wait, since I will push some rockbox port with it :)
18:42:06pamaurydoes the A850 have a touchscreen?
18:42:50lebelliumit doesn't
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20:37:57Guest36141Is it enough to add #define HAVE_MULTIVOLUME to cowond2.h to make Rockbox see a second partition on the SD card?
20:38:21gevaerts *think* so
20:38:28gevaertsIt's been a while...
20:38:50gevaertsHmm, wait
20:39:16gevaertsI thought HAVE_MULTIDISK implied HAVE_MULTIVOLUME, and cowond2 definitely has HAVE_MULTIDISK
20:39:53Guest36141I created a second partition on the SD card, but Rockbox can not see it. The OF of course does not either.
20:40:55Guest36141it is a 256MB card and both partitions formatted to fat16, could this be a problem?
20:40:59gevaertsHmmm, yes, you need explicit HAVE_MULTIVOLUME
20:42:05Guest36141gevaerts: thanks, so it is just adding this line and compile?
20:42:11gevaertsOtherwise NUM_VOLUMES_PER_DRIVE will be 1, which isn't used on its own, but the maximum number of volumes in total is NUM_VOLUMES_PER_DRIVE * NUM_DRIVES
20:42:13gevaertsyes
20:44:00Guest36141thanks
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20:47:13vladovghey guys
20:47:37vladovgfiio x3 2nd gen
20:47:54vladovghttp://imgur.com/a/ESSjq
20:50:30vladovgso far manage to take it apart
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20:52:35vladovgbut i cannot take the navigation wheel out
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20:53:48vladovgyou can see on the 3rd picture
20:54:17vladovgany ideas ?
20:55:48vladovgoriginal artikel : http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=51290.0
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21:02:55pamauryvladovg: you probably don't need to remove the wheel
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21:24:30wodzpamaury: I have nwz-e474 but without wm port cable so I need to buy one. It is f*** irritating to have dozen of cables which all are basically usb but with different proprietary connectors.
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21:37:47pamaurywodz (logs): yeah you sum that up nicely... especially since this f** wm-port connector is almost useless, contrary to the apply cable
21:38:56lebelliumit gives you a line-in :)
21:39:01lebelliumline-out* sorry
21:43:54pamaurylebellium: I am not sure that justifies a different connector ;)
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21:58:39lebelliumI don't know, I've never seen a line-out over mini or microUSB
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22:00:22pamaurylebellium: just put another jack!
22:00:35pamaurylike everyone else
22:00:41lebelliumthat was easy on the -2004-2005 bricks
22:00:58lebelliumon the modern looking Sony or Samsung players, putting another jack may be an issue
22:01:27lebelliumnow with the audiophile bricks, it's easy again
22:02:21pamauryif you can put one jack, you can usually put two, and sony started to produce audiophile bricks recently
22:04:15lebelliumif you look the trends, line-in and line-out jacks totally disappeared for 10 years
22:04:19lebelliumnot only by Sony
22:05:01lebelliumprobably for design, size/thickness matter
22:05:08lebelliumand because customers didn't care
22:05:41lebelliumnow audiophile players ironically look like 2004-2005 iRiver H300 and Cowon X5
22:07:14lebelliumputting a proprietary connector gave the opportunity to have a line-out for 10% customers and didn't affect the 90% others who didn't care
22:09:54pamauryyeah you might be right
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22:44:39saratoga_on most of those older devices, the line out was just to keep you from blasting your ears because you forgot to lower the volume after plugging headphones in
22:45:20saratoga_so using a proprietary dock connector made more sense, you'd use it to plug into accessories
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23:56:15BilgusOK. Updated, that took a long while http://gerrit.rockbox.org/1417 Selective Backlight - Allows user to select actions that don't turn on Backlight

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