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#rockbox log for 2016-11-14

00:01:56Bilguspamaury: I think i finally have a sound way to do the selective backlighting the other tries were becoming crazy now I just delay the backlight a second, long enough to get an action back and then cancel the pending backlight call if the action matched
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02:19:59scorche`bluebrother: gevaerts: yeah - i need to re-do the entire server honestly. It has falled behind
02:20:39scorche`i mean, i can add a cert real quick if you want, but the enire server needs to be redone
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02:21:05scorche`hopefully, i will have some time to dedicate to that in the beginning of the year, since I wont be working
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03:39:33[Saint]HE TOOK YER JEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRB!
03:40:26[Saint]Thanks, Glowing Sphere Of Seething White-Hot Rage.
03:40:56Bilgus[Saint]: I have my selective bl patch done and now I want to do the soft lock portion what do I need to do to share some functions between them?
03:42:11[Saint]I'm unsure of the root of the question there.
03:43:52Bilgusok they both share some source
03:44:39BilgusIts in my commit but i'd like gerrit to allow me to use some of the stuff from that commit
03:44:54Bilgusfor this next one
03:45:04Bilgusor is it like automagic
03:45:45Bilgusor do I just duplicate it verbatim ?
03:51:43[Saint]https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/Advanced_usage#Create_a_dependency
03:52:39Bilgusthx
03:53:26[Saint]With that flow, gerrit will automagically mark two or more distinct patches X and Y as X requiring Y for merge.
03:54:30[Saint]or, you could just duplicate it and git will sort out merge conflicts at merge time.
03:54:47[Saint]whatever floats you boat. but I prefer it if a dependency chain is clear.
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04:02:48Bilgusso create a dependency with a marked parent?
04:06:20 Quit megal0maniac (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
04:07:02[Saint]If you've still got the branch I pushe....errrr, gently coerced you in to creating, and create a new commit from within that, that'll get handled automagically.
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04:07:20[Saint]If you don't, you can just checkout your own task in to a new branch, and the same will happen.
04:08:05[Saint]just verify (as described in the linkypoos) that the dependency is listed in git log before commit.
04:09:32[Saint]to be honest, that whole advanced gerrit usage page is a treasure trove of useful gold.
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04:34:03Bilgusk
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06:32:59Bray90820Can you plug in an external amp to a rockbox device?
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07:16:28[Saint]Bray90820: of course.
07:17:09[Saint]Amps don't care what is serving them their input.
07:17:27Bray90820Through usb?
07:17:39[Saint]No.
07:17:47[Saint]We do not do USB audio.
07:17:59Bray90820Why not
07:18:00[Saint]Though there's a half baked patch for this
07:18:49Bray90820Why shouldn't I do it through USB
07:19:11[Saint]Presumably you'd want it to work. That would be one reason.
07:19:22[Saint]There's no support for this in our releases.
07:20:42[Saint]We don't do audio out over USB. There is a half done patch for using Rockbox as a USB DAC though.
07:20:54[Saint]But that sounds like the reverse of what you want.
07:21:35[Saint]Well...not quite the reverse.
07:40:11Bray90820[Saint]: You would be correct
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13:20:05wodzpamaury: Got wm cable. I may check something on this wm-e474 if you want.
13:20:38pamaurywodz: will you be online tonight? It might be useful if you can dump the rootfs
13:21:44wodzpamaury: today no (maybe late but unlikely)
13:22:07wodzpamaury: I can do something now
13:24:26pamauryok, so let me write the instructions and you can do it when you have time:
13:24:26pamaurymake sure you are at HEAD, go to nzwtools/upgtools, run make, then go to nzwtools/scripts and run: (doing this from memory, in doubt run make to get help)
13:24:26pamaurymake dump_rootfs NZW_TARGET=nzw-e470 UPG=dump_rootfs_nwze470.upg
13:24:26DBUGEnqueued KICK pamaury
13:24:26pamauryplug your device and mount it then:
13:24:28pamaurymake copy_fw_upgrade UPG=dump_rootfs_nwze470.upg NWZ_MOUNT=/media/WALKMAN
13:24:28pamaurysudo make do_fw_upgrade NWZ_DEV=/dev/sdX
13:24:55pamauryit should reboot, print some messages (it may take several minutes to dump it, also make sure you have 300MB of free space on the device) and reboot
13:25:05pamaurythen you should have a bunch of files in dump_rootfs/
13:25:22pamauryif would be great if you can send me the fu_initrd and rootfs tgw
13:29:42wodzpamaury: in which package I can find crypto++ ?
13:29:55pamaurylibcryptopp I think
13:30:10pamaury-dev probably
13:30:23pamauryor libcrypto++-dev
13:32:45wodzhttp://pastie.org/10962048
13:32:47wodzpamaury: ^
13:33:23pamauryI made a typo, nzw -> nwz
13:34:03wodzyes, I spotted it, anyway it says unknown model
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13:36:09pamaurynws-e470 is unknown?
13:36:14pamaurynwz*
13:36:20wodzpamaury: do I need some specific cross compiler?
13:36:42pamaurynot to dump the rootfs
13:36:47 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
13:36:59wodzpamaury: http://pastie.org/10962050
13:37:15wodzso nwz-e470 is unknown
13:38:31pamauryah my mistake, I couldn't find a firmware upgrade for the e470 so I don't have the key, you need to do that before:
13:38:38pamaurygo to nzwtools/scsitools/, run make
13:39:03pamaurythen:
13:39:03pamaury./scsitool /dev/sdX get_dnk_nvp kas
13:39:30pamauryand copy paste what you get
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13:41:35wodzpamaury: http://pastie.org/10962054
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13:45:16pamaurywodz: in upgtool.c, line 179, add this:
13:45:16pamaury{ "nwz-e470", HAS_KAS | CONFIRMED, "e4144baaa2707913f17b5634034262c4", "", "" },
13:45:25pamauryrecompile, and it should work
13:50:33wodzpamaury: http://pastie.org/10962057. On the screen there was error message cannot mount rootfs or something like this
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13:57:38pamaurywodz: ah indeed you don't have the rootfs, cat you pastebin mount.txt and dmesg.txt?
13:59:21wodzpamaury: http://pastie.org/10962066
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14:31:39pamaurywodz: sorry I'm at work, I'm quite busy
14:32:03pamaurywodz: can you try to modify dump_rootfs.sh
14:32:13pamauryand replace "ext2" by ext3
14:32:55wodzpamaury: yes, but ext3 should be able to mount as ext2, no?
14:32:58pamaurymy code assumes ext2 by I knew that some device would come up with something else, I'll need to fix it
14:33:04pamaurywodz: yeah good point :)
14:34:16wodzpamaury: sent you email with dump as it is now
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20:02:05johnb3Bilgus: I fetched the new patch and am testing now ...
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20:27:00vflysonIs there any way to run Rockbox as a stand-alone desktop program? I'm aware of the android port, but not sure if running that one within an Android VM with mounted ~/Music is the best way to go.
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20:29:37wodzvflyson: Yes there is. It is called sdl app build. I am afraid you have to build it yourself from sources.
20:30:09vflysonOh, so they have based on SDL? Nice... building is not a problem, I'm a GNU/Linux user.
20:30:12vflysonthanks wodz
20:30:35wodzthey, you mean who?
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20:37:37BilgusJOHNB there is still a nagging issue with the power off message not showing in time but everything else should be nearly flawless
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20:51:45vflysonwodz: whoever completed that port
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20:55:42fs-bluebot_Build Server message: 3New build round started. Revision deaeb73, 255 builds, 14 clients.
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21:03:14johnb2Bilgus: Ok, let's see.
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21:06:27fs-bluebot_Build Server message: 3Build round completed after 646 seconds.
21:06:30fs-bluebot_Build Server message: 3Revision deaeb73 result: 15 errors 15 warnings
21:08:40wodzapparently not my fault
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22:40:39lebelliumgevaerts: latest added members to the wiki look like spam
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22:51:56lebelliumpamaury: which sony player would be interesting to buy for some testing (except the newest expensive ones) ?
22:52:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:53:36pamaurylebellium: hum, I think I wrote a list the other day on the channel, wait a minute
22:54:06lebelliumI guess you wrote a list of all linux sony devices
22:55:20pamaurythe NWZ-E580 would be nice
22:56:00lebelliumtough one :D
22:56:07pamauryone of the S series would be useful: NWZ-S750, NWZ-S760, NWZ-S770, NWZ-S780 (japanese only)
22:56:35lebelliumpamaury: would that still help? https://www.leboncoin.fr/image_son/1048788983.htm?ca=12_s A working one is expensive :D
22:58:13pamauryhum, I guess for 10€ that's worth a try
22:58:45pamauryif it still displays something, maybe I can access the flash and recover it
22:58:50lebelliumreleased in 2013 and Sony still sells it for more than 100€. Pfff
22:59:54Fa1thHello which one is better ipod shuffle or sansa sandisk clip sport ?
23:00
23:00:10lebellium"access the flash" you mean physically?
23:00:15lebelliumdisassemble it?
23:00:17pamauryyes
23:00:26lebelliumok, so better you buy it yourself
23:00:35pamauryyeah let me give it a try
23:01:50pamaurylebellium: otherwise a NWZ-A15 would be a nice device, although still expensive
23:02:22pamaurythere are older device like the A820 but I'm not sure it's worth spending much time on them
23:03:40 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: "It's now safe to turn off your computer.")
23:03:43lebelliumI was rather looking for <50€ players
23:04:35pamauryyeah I know, but Sony...
23:04:41lebelliumA15 is minimum 100€ on leboncoin
23:07:45pamauryyeah I'm waiting until a someone makes the mistake of selling it for less than that ;)
23:10:11lebelliumthe A15 has a sd slot thouh
23:10:44lebelliumit could be an excellent investment if one day working with rockbox
23:12:24[Saint]Speaking of investments, I found a pawn shop here in Christchurch that didn't seem to know the value of what they were sitting on and I purchased four more iPod Classics.
23:12:32[Saint]I only spent $200 on the lot.
23:12:41TorCFa1th: I'm not sure about the Ipod Shuffle, but the Clip Sport doesn't support RB and never will, so the opinion here is that if the Shuffle doesn't support RB, then get a better player.
23:14:12[Saint]Fa1th: based on the context of TorC's comment just now. No.
23:14:16[Saint]To both.
23:14:50[Saint]Neither are currently supported, the former might be if someone is invested enough in doing so, the latter never will be.
23:15:54TorCThought so, but I'm not familiar with the apple line to answer authoritatively. I know the Sansa line, though.
23:16:03[Saint]Rockbox on the iPod Shuffle would be a very different creature, though. The only thing Rockbox could actually offer it from our feature set is USB-HID and additional codecs.
23:16:40[Saint]Not having any form of visual output negates a fair amount of the Rockbox feature set.
23:17:00[Saint]Carving all that out would arguable make it not even Rockbox anymore.
23:17:15TorCThough the thought occurs to me that if there are enough buttons it might make a decent box for the blind?
23:17:15[Saint]*arguably
23:18:10[Saint]TorC: well, it could, but all the supported targets already have full voice support...so, decent players for the blind are 'any device currently supported'.
23:19:02 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.)
23:19:03TorCTrue. Which goes back to the situation that it isn't likely worth anyone's time to support.
23:19:51[Saint]Right. Someone would need to be very, very bored and have a lot of time on their hands and have some form unhealthy love affair with iPod Shuffles.
23:21:16[Saint]That person would also need to be a very experience embedded programmer with a lot of reverse engineering knowledge.
23:21:55[Saint]One small saving grace for that person, if they exist, is that there is already at least two viable exploit paths.
23:22:18[Saint]I have my doubts this person exists though, at present or in future.
23:22:51[Saint]Fa1th: So, basically, pick one of the devices that are actually currently supported.
23:26:13 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
23:27:01 Join vifino [0] (~vifino@tty.sh)
23:34:14TorCStarted looking at some of the Sony players because I think it would be fun to try getting in on development of a port (though I wouldn't be able to offer coding help).
23:34:59lebelliumI can't find any good deal
23:35:16lebelliumsony players are so overpriced, even in second hand
23:36:07Bilgus[<[Saint]> Fa1th: So, basically, pick one of the devices that are actually currently supported.] <IF you can find them :/
23:36:51Bilgussansa fuze+ is decent but the touch pad leaves something to be desired in US on amazon $0 new
23:37:02Bilgus$50*
23:37:05TorCThe NWZX2. Good God. Do people really spend that?
23:37:09[Saint]Bilgus: they're really not as difficult to find as people make them out to be.
23:37:09[Saint]But you're sure as shit not going to find any of them for what Joe Everyday is going to consider to be a reasonable price.
23:37:21[Saint]And finding one new is pretty much absolutely out of the question.
23:37:22__builtinhmm, what's so bad about the fuze plus's touchpad?
23:37:36[Saint]It is absolutely terrible.
23:37:44lebelliumit's as bad as any touchpad
23:37:46[Saint]The touch detection is all over the show.
23:37:50Bilgusbasically you have to lock it everytime you set it down or in pocket
23:38:09lebelliumthere is no good touchpad
23:38:22[Saint]The original firmware is basically unusable with 'ghost touches'.
23:38:29Bilgus^
23:38:32[Saint]Rockbox only marginally less so.
23:39:20TorCI've bought a few Clip+s and a zip as they've gone out of production. Costs more now used than they did new in production. Probably mostly because of RB.
23:39:25Bilgusbut at least it rockboxes and working on things to make it bearable
23:39:39Bilgusthe clip+ is $100+
23:39:55TorCThat much now? Ugghh.
23:40:16Bilgusmight be able to find one that needs a battery I found one for mine on ebay $16
23:40:40Bilgushardest part is getting it open
23:40:49TorCNice sound, decent battery, and a brilliantly sized package. Why, oh why, did they have to discontinue HW good enough to run RB?
23:41:12[Saint]TorC: you can spend as much as $300 on an iPod Classic these days
23:41:12TorCI've opened a couple in my time. Not impossible, but nearly so to do it without a mark.
23:41:19Bilgusone word.. Smartphone 2?
23:41:59BilgusI used credit cards and looked at the pics of the inside to find the 'clips'
23:42:03[Saint]Bilgus: you're aware that Rockbox As An Application on Android is entirely dead in the water, yes?
23:42:21[Saint]It ain't happenin'.
23:42:58Bilgusthe people taht use smartphones would rather use pandora or spotify I imagine
23:43:13[Saint]This is absolutely true.
23:43:15TorCI guess I'm spoiled by remembering the Clip+/Zip production days of sound quality/price ratio with uSD to offer semi-infinite storage.
23:43:51BilgusI wish I had known the clip+ was going to be discontinued back when they were $30 i'd have bought 6 instead of two
23:44:46TorCIf I'd had any idea the zips were going to be discontinued that's the one I'd have stocked up on. Probably have made a pretty penny if I let them out of my hands.
23:44:47Bilgusthe one I replaced the battery in was in my car for 3 years summers and all and the battery still lasted 6 hrs
23:45:25[Saint]I have a project that I work on occasionally when I get bursts of inspiration based on android-ffmpeg (I have also begun the process of backporting the very few optimizations Rockbox has deployed that aren't already integrated into ffmpeg) a native UI.
23:45:25[Saint]But I have little time or motivation to work on it.
23:45:48[Saint]It is arguable as to whether or not this is "Rockbox" though.
23:47:10[Saint]Rockbox as it exists in its current state is cumbersome and impractical, the theme engine is all but useless due to the wide ranging limitations, the plugin and viewers system makes absolutely no sense on Android, and it doesn't even run on any version of Android that anyone would consider as being even remotely modern.
23:47:14Bilgusi'd be interested if you could use a small smartphone as strictly a media player but it seems like they just get bigger and I'm weird so I doubt the majority would like it
23:47:39[Saint]It has been incompatible with our threading model ever since ART was deployed as the default runtime.
23:48:09[Saint]We would need to make some very drastic changes in core to get it to run on modern Android.
23:48:32[Saint]And that is a lot of work to deploy something that at this point isn't even arguable as to whether or not it even makes sense.
23:48:42[Saint]RaaAoA makes precisely zero sense.
23:48:42 Quit vifino (Quit: Who turned this off?! D:<)
23:48:53[Saint]For a laundry list of reasons.
23:49:28[Saint]...and no one has expressed any interest at all in helping me deploy an android-ffmpeg/librockbox based player with a native UI.
23:49:44Bilgusthe market for media players will just get smaller with more expensive devices but it might come back around as things tend to do
23:51:21 Join vifino [0] (~vifino@tty.sh)
23:51:24[Saint]There are only two aspects of the DAP market now:
23:51:24[Saint] - disposable piece of shit Happy Meal toys like the Sansas.
23:51:24[Saint] - and foolishly expensive 'audiophile' players that Rockbox isn't directly compatible with because we don't support ridiculous bit depths and sampling rates.
23:51:46[Saint]People using Rockbox on the latter devices would be throwing away all the money they spent on those nonsense bits.
23:52:34[Saint]Because we can only do 16/48, which is entirely ample, but audiophiles get sucked in to the bullshit "HD" audio game.
23:53:08Bilgus^ i know what you mean
23:53:13[Saint]So their 32/196+ audio will get resampled.
23:54:09[Saint]And this makes Neil Young shed 196kbps tears of pure harmonic rage.
23:54:40[Saint]s/kbps/kHz/
23:56:20[Saint]Audiophiles have, for the longest time, absolutely refused to believe that they aren't dolphins, whales, or bats and that for the purposes of faithful reproduction 16/44.1 is entirely adequate.
23:56:43TorCWell, I just picked up another purple zip, NIbB.
23:57:04[Saint]Hell...you could technically faithfully reproduce the entire human-audible spectrum in 15 bits with a little bit of wiggle room.
23:57:06Bilguslol I hear no difference between them except in the very rarest of circumstances
23:57:14TorCSince who knows when anything close will come out again, and which will support RB.
23:57:19[Saint]16 is just a nice round number that makes the math a shitload easier.
23:58:04Bilgusand most of the music thats current sounds pretty shitty anyways lol
23:58:09[Saint]48kHz actually makes for some weird-isms with audible pitch shift in some circumstances..
23:58:44[Saint]16/44.1 is absolutely plenty unless you're a dolphin, whale, bat, cat, or dog.
23:58:56TorCBilgus: So true, on the quality of current "music".
23:59:00[Saint]and there's not really much of a market for whale music.

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