| 00:01:21 | [Saint] | See, that's where they get you, TorC. That's what they want you to believe. |
| 00:01:21 | [Saint] | They walk among us. |
| 00:01:21 | [Saint] | Neil Young is actually a pigmy pilot whale in a photorealistic latex suit. |
| 00:01:52 | [Saint] | It's the only reasonable explanation as to why his bullshit marketing of HD audio makes sense. |
| 00:02:57 | Galois | the opus codec doesn't even support 44.1khz audio. People should just standardize on 48khz for the sake of not having to support two different things. |
| 00:07:16 | [Saint] | I will freely admit that there is absolutely a time and a place for 32/64/96/192 bit 96/192/384/... encoded audio. |
| 00:07:27 | [Saint] | But this is /not/ in the consumer market. |
| 00:08:01 | [Saint] | If you're mastering an album or a major motion picture, that headroom and resolution is absolutely very useful. |
| 00:08:15 | [Saint] | For Joe Everyday, is absolutely is not. |
| 00:09:08 | [Saint] | Joe Everyday the audiophile however will flatly refuse to believe this and will go to great lengths to attempt to disprove it. |
| 00:09:37 | [Saint] | But hilariously those great lengths never seem to include peer reviewed a/B/X testing though. |
| 00:10:36 | [Saint] | It's all just subjective "I can hear the difference, and if you can't, you're an idiot" statements and the use of frankly hilarious adjectives to describe their shit-brain insanity-riddles subjective claims. |
| 00:13:14 | [Saint] | "It really brings out the caramel tones of the mids, and the crunchy vanilla bran flake taste of the lows and the exciting hit of sharpness and sweetness from the highs." |
| 00:14:05 | [Saint] | "With five essential vitamins and iron, and added dietary fiber, HD audio is essential to a balanced breakfast and the start of a productive day!" |
| 00:14:33 | [Saint] | "Pick up a pack of Audiophile(TM) brand HD wheat flakes at a supermarket near you!" |
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| 00:24:33 | Bilgus | I see you've encountered a few of these guys and read their magazines |
| 00:26:10 | [Saint] | Such is the nature of the game in being a volunteer/staffer/moderator here for the better part of a decade. |
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| 00:44:42 | ploco | can someone just push this into main? http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/1211/ |
| 00:46:20 | ploco | it's not perfect but the hack nothing is perfect in this project. |
| 00:47:08 | ploco | so this patch is just somthing somthing make RaaAoA work again. |
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| 00:48:59 | | Quit ender` (Quit: The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong. — Andy Rooney) |
| 00:50:47 | [Saint] | No. |
| 00:51:02 | ploco | revert one silly patch around of framebuffer and push this, the wheel will rolls again. how complicate is this? |
| 00:51:02 | [Saint] | Rockbox has a Do It Right philosophy. |
| 00:51:12 | ploco | hahaha |
| 00:51:48 | [Saint] | No one has any interest in hacking the fuck out of the core to make a port no one cares about function again. |
| 00:52:08 | ploco | what have you done about the RaaAoA issue [SAINT]? |
| 00:52:19 | ploco | sorry [Saint] |
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| 00:54:11 | ploco | your words are so old that become nothing at all . once again, what have you done about the ART issue? the resolution fragmentation? |
| 00:54:16 | [Saint] | I have done the same thing that many of us did and recognized that hacks on top of hacks to fix up what was never a good idea to begin with is not a way that this project should go. |
| 00:55:00 | ploco | prove it. show me the patch you have done for RaaAoA |
| 00:55:01 | [Saint] | The way forward for RaaA is with a central library and a native UI. Not this mess. |
| 00:56:13 | ploco | its too easy to said then actually do something. |
| 00:56:39 | [Saint] | We've known how to work around this mess for a very long time. You seem to confuse something that can be done with something that should be done. |
| 00:56:47 | TorC | [Saint]: On usefulness of high resolution audio: Yep. That's the same reason it's often useful to have a higher resolution camera and shoot raw - so that you have room to futz with the output. |
| 00:57:37 | ploco | who are we you refer? not include you i know |
| 00:58:12 | [Saint] | You don't know your ass from your elbow. |
| 00:58:55 | TorC | [Saint]: Here's the unofficial theme song of the Audiophiles. I'm sure you'll get a chuckle from it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fJmmDkvQyc |
| 01:00 |
| 01:02:23 | ploco | pff, what a PM wannabe. |
| 01:02:26 | | Part ploco |
| 01:03:01 | [Saint] | A who in the what now? |
| 01:08:05 | [Saint] | I honestly don't even know why ploco cares about this. They've been quite happy with their crazy Chinese Rockbox fork where they can add all the hacks they want for the longest time. |
| 01:09:37 | [Saint] | The person who sumitted that gerrit task /has/ direct commit access and knows damn well that just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be and that crazy abuses like this don't belong in core. |
| 01:12:15 | [Saint] | The way forward for Rockbox in Android is with a central library, but without anyone really being able to agree on exactly what that library should or shouldn't handle, and without anyone actually wanting to do the work on it it stagnates. |
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| 02:58:23 | __builtin | how do "overlay" plugins work? |
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| 07:03:01 | Bilgus | johnb2: latest is up on gerrit should be the final one |
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| 09:02:35 | wodz | pamaury: Have you got my mail? |
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| 09:08:48 | pamaury | wodz: yes thanks :) |
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| 09:09:41 | pamaury | wodz: if I have time today, I will push rockboxdev.sh modification to create the sony toolchain (though it will require the swedes to upload things) and maybe you will be able to try to run code on the E470 |
| 09:10:36 | pamaury | __builtin: I am not sure but I think overlay plugin are basically plugins loaded by plugins. They need special linking because they are loaded at a different address. But to be honest I never looked into it. Do you have anything more specific to ask? |
| 09:12:16 | wodz | pamaury: What is best way to contribute to nwz port now? |
| 09:12:23 | wodz | pamaury: I mean what is needed |
| 09:13:35 | wodz | plugin ovelays basically load plugins into pcm buf AFAIK so target with small ram can load plugins bigger then codec buffer |
| 09:18:17 | pamaury | wodz: right now, wait until I push the nwz port (that has no driver for anything except display). Then we need to add for the various drivers: keys (should be easy with what I have), touchscreen (same), fmradio (there is a sony proprietary driver in lib/modules), and audio |
| 09:19:08 | pamaury | on audio, they use alsa so I'm going to create a toolchain that links against Sony's alsa, and there some scripts in the rootfs to tweak alsa knobs, change routing, etc... it should be possible to figure out how it works to implement audio routing |
| 09:20:59 | wodz | pamaury: how is usb handled? I saw kernel module related to this in rootfs |
| 09:32:32 | pamaury | ah, it's a bit of long story |
| 09:32:47 | pamaury | I have to go to work, but I'll write how usb works in this channel later today |
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| 10:37:27 | wodz | pamaury: I'll try to disassemble icx_si470x_radio_tuner.ko later today |
| 10:45:43 | pamaury | wodz: cool :) I have disassembled a number of things in those rootfs, ask me first so we don't duplicate the work |
| 10:46:01 | pamaury | I haven't looked at icx_si470x_radio_tuner though\ |
| 10:46:21 | pamaury | wodz: so about usb, you need to understand the whole architecture of the system |
| 10:46:58 | wodz | pamaury: extracting ioctl interface from this si470x driver should be fairly easy |
| 10:47:11 | pamaury | wodz: also look at sony kernel headers |
| 10:47:19 | pamaury | they contain the ioctl for some drivers |
| 10:47:35 | wodz | pamaury: where do I look for this sources? |
| 10:47:50 | pamaury | http://oss.sony.net/Products/Linux/Audio/NWZ-E473.html |
| 10:48:06 | pamaury | linux-kernel-2.6.35.tgz is the only really interesting bit |
| 10:49:28 | pamaury | wodz: so the system has managed by a program called sysmgrd. This program is responsible for choosing which program is in the foreground (as well as other things). There are two mains "apps": SpiderApp (the OF interface) and Responder (the MSC/MTP responder) |
| 10:50:09 | pamaury | when usb is plugged, sysmgrd will wait under SpiderApp exists and runs Responder. If SpiderApp does not exits, sysmgrd will not kill it, so usb connection is basically not happening. |
| 10:51:14 | wodz | pretty weird |
| 10:51:21 | pamaury | when Responder starts, it loads g_nw_xxx (don't remember the name) |
| 10:52:19 | pamaury | this one is actually a multiplexer that wait for the first usb requests to choose between MTP and MSC. It then forwards all requests to either MTP or MSC driver. The MSC driver is mostly the standard linux one, with g_nw_scsi to handle vendor scsi requests. The MTP driver g_nw_mtp forwards all requests to Responder where they are handled in userspace |
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| 10:53:14 | pamaury | so in short: Rockbox should quit when USB is plugged, to let sysmgrd take care of it |
| 10:53:33 | pamaury | the usb status can be monitored easily using several Sony's drivers |
| 10:56:03 | pamaury | also a good thing is the rootfs is mounted read-only, so the user won't be able to modify, that's helpful |
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| 13:10:35 | wodz | pamaury: Did you notice DSP stuff in sony's sources? |
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| 13:27:39 | pamaury | wodz: no, where is it? I am not that interested in the dsp stuff. Or by dsp you mean v2l4 ? |
| 13:30:18 | wodz | pamaury: linux-kernel/arch/arm/mach-emxx/inter_dsp.{c,h} |
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| 13:33:32 | pamaury | wodz: I am not sure what it does |
| 13:33:47 | pamaury | I haven't be able to find any doc on the DSP of the processor |
| 13:34:27 | wodz | pamaury: It looks like general interface to load something (code, data) to core with different arch. Header says Renesas btw |
| 13:34:56 | pamaury | the dsp is dspk701 |
| 13:35:46 | wodz | pamaury: icx_si470x_radio_tuner.h does not contain ioctl codes |
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| 13:37:05 | pamaury | renesas bought whatever copany produced the mp200 (can't remember it's name). The emxx is the successor of it, so most of the files are probably licenced to Renesas |
| 13:37:28 | pamaury_ | ah yeah, the MP200 was created by NEC |
| 13:38:49 | pamaury_ | I guess you'll have to reverse engineer the driver then |
| 13:39:40 | pamaury_ | does the driver integrate with v4l2 or not? |
| 13:40:01 | wodz | dunno |
| 13:40:42 | wodz | Was stunned by dsp in the name. DSP integrated with core is a relict of past age :-) |
| 13:41:49 | pamaury_ | this processor is really old, at least the design of it |
| 13:41:59 | pamaury_ | actually I thought the emxx dropped the dsp |
| 13:42:47 | pamaury_ | but I don't have the datasheet for the emxx so it was just a guess |
| 13:50:41 | pamaury_ | wodz: this page https://www.renesas.com/en-us/products/communications-and-mobile-devices/emma.html does not mention a dsp, it says the emxx has a cortex A9 with neon and a "flexible A/V engine" |
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| 13:54:46 | wodz | pamaury_: Maybe it is relict then |
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| 14:05:52 | Bilgus | johnb2: how was it? |
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| 15:21:02 | lebellium | is there anything that can be done to prevent spam on the wiki? |
| 15:39:25 | pamaury_ | I don't know, we (gevaerts?) recently made changes to reduce load on the wiki because of spammer that try to edit the wiki, but a lot of bot still defeat account creation :( |
| 15:40:47 | gevaerts | zagor |
| 15:40:57 | gevaerts | I have no special powers on the wiki |
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| 15:42:31 | pamaury_ | I agree though that it creates a lot of noise, it's impossible to see the recently changed pages |
| 15:42:46 | pamaury_ | maybe we could create all new account manually? |
| 15:43:04 | pamaury_ | since it needs manual activation to write anyway... |
| 15:54:35 | lebellium | Yes, I don't see the point of creating the account oneself if we need to be added to the users group by a staff member anyway |
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| 16:28:23 | lebellium | pamaury: what do you want to do on A15? Is it risky? I found a guy owning one on a French forum I'm following. I may ask him if he's interested by some testing |
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| 17:15:27 | pamaury | lebellium: initially just dump the rootfs and try to run the plattforms tools, I don't think there is any risk |
| 17:15:37 | pamaury | (the risk is when you start installing stuff) |
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| 17:24:29 | Bilgus | pamaury: with the selective backlight part of this out of the way, selective softlock was cake I have the core stuff working now just need to clean it up, test, and make menus |
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| 19:09:48 | Bilgus | Selective Backlight and Selective Softlock Patches are up on Gerrit need some testers :) http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/1417/ ; http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/1418/ |
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| 19:12:00 | TheLemonMan | oh, that's an interesting feature |
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| 19:14:46 | Bilgus | thank pamaury he set me on the path of the second one and pixelma for the selective context actions instead of buttons |
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| 19:15:06 | johnb2 | Bilgus: I just returned home from work. |
| 19:15:46 | johnb2 | Should I compile with both patches (selBacklight and softlock) for testing or keep them separate? |
| 19:16:11 | Bilgus | the fuzev2 has a hold button so selective softlock won't work for you but I think you will be pleased with selective backlighting |
| 19:16:48 | Bilgus | but you can do w/e selective softlock just won't work |
| 19:17:51 | johnb2 | I will start with clip+ anyway and then go for Fuze. So I will apply both patches ... |
| 19:18:27 | Bilgus | cool I haven't tested selective softlock on my clip+ yet only the fuze+ |
| 19:19:53 | Bilgus | you'll have to do the 1417 then 1418 I believe since it builds from functions in it |
| 19:20:25 | johnb2 | thanks, that's what I figured. |
| 19:25:45 | johnb2 | Is it good enough to "make bin" only? |
| 19:29:56 | Bilgus | doubt it since the lang file changed too |
| 19:30:09 | johnb2 | ok, doing all |
| 19:31:28 | Bilgus | have to make fullzip but you can copy langs/english.land and rockbox.sansa only |
| 19:32:25 | Bilgus | *.lang |
| 19:32:43 | johnb2 | got it |
| 19:38:25 | Bilgus | bb in a few hours |
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| 20:00 |
| 20:17:55 | johnb2 | uploaded the builds here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rlj64r54vxparsz/rockbox.clipplus.zip?dl=0 |
| 20:18:11 | johnb2 | https://www.dropbox.com/s/94d8vfb4w5ss551/rockbox.fuzev2.zip?dl=0 |
| 20:24:07 | johnb2 | Bilgus: Clip+: Well done! |
| 20:26:35 | johnb2 | I had run also the version from last night (with the shutdown problem). This one had one addtl. problem: Seek was not selected in the menu, but still during seed the display would stay off and only turn on when seeking had been stopped. |
| 20:28:12 | johnb2 | This is gone with this build and been reduced to the roughly 0.5s delay/lag that happens with any button that is supposed to turn on the display. I guess that due to a timeout you are using. |
| 20:29:10 | johnb2 | I have not found any issue neither with selective backlight nor the softlock. |
| 20:31:27 | johnb2 | bb in 1/2h |
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| 20:42:27 | | Join Bilgus_ph [0] (~Bilgus@108.120.219.186) |
| 20:43:44 | TorC | Bilgus: Hmmm... mightn't it be possible to set the patch use the delay to get the code you need, and then if backlight not desired, cancel it, or if wanted, issue the order to turn it on immediately? I haven't gotten to try it yet (I have zip available to test with, and haven't worked through compiling yet), but IIRC, you introduced the delay to deal with the backlight not staying off because of a temporary keycode that got put through. |
| 20:47:44 | | Quit johnb3 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 20:48:47 | | Quit Bilgus_ph (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:50:29 | johnb2 | I personally pay the price of that delay in turning on the display, but surely if there are other ways to do it that would be great. |
| 20:50:54 | johnb2 | I now moving on with the FuzeV2. |
| 20:52:50 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:52:54 | johnb2 | ^ am |
| 21:00 |
| 21:16:08 | johnb2 | FuzeV2: the flickering of the display when using the scroll wheel that I had reported earlier is gone. |
| 21:17:23 | johnb2 | Similar behaviour as with the Clip+, no problems so far. I will continue with some more testing tomorrow. |
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| 21:45:20 | Bilgus | johnb2 & TorC the reason for the dealsy is the resolution of the backlight queue.. HZ or approx 1 second, I tried preempting that delay in the prior release but just ended up creating a race condition.. I thought about using a timer and callback to do it but I need to talk to someone who knows more about the available timers across all targets perhaps using a timer if available and falling back to the button queue if needed |
| 21:54:05 | Bilgus | I found a function timeout_register() ill start playing with it.. |
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| 22:09:30 | Bilgus | I think I can register a timeout with this but since there is no way to figure out if it was actually added or not I'll leave the other one as well to fall back on |
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| 22:22:42 | | Part robertd1 |
| 22:39:53 | Bilgus | pamaury do you know anything about the timer subsystem? |
| 22:40:51 | TorC | Bilgus: I'd be glad to test on Zip, but I haven't worked out compiling, and won't have time to delve into that for a while. Can test tonight my time. I'll check logs if I'm not around. |
| 22:41:05 | pamaury | Bilgus: some, I know how it's implemented I think |
| 22:42:15 | | Quit advcomp2019 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 22:43:37 | Bilgus | I'm wondering how constrained the timeout function is I see it has 8 possible slots and its used all over the code I'd hate to have a callback not occur on something important like the BL I can decrease the queue wait timeout when I enable wait on the backlight but I'm wondering what else that might impact |
| 22:45:06 | pamaury | I am not sure I follow the last thing you said, you want to decrease what? |
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| 22:48:10 | Bilgus | queue_wait_w_tmo(&backlight_queue, &ev, BACKLIGHT_THREAD_TIMEOUT); |
| 22:48:55 | Bilgus | it is how the backlight code deques |
| 22:48:59 | pamaury | and why exactly do you want to change the timeout? |
| 22:49:21 | pamaury | I don't see the link between the timeout function and the timeout of the queue wait |
| 22:49:31 | Bilgus | well currently I have a timeout of 1second which is the max resolution |
| 22:49:44 | Bilgus | I only need .5 or less |
| 22:50:37 | Bilgus | there is a slightly noticable delay when selective backlight is enabled and when a keypress that does activate backlight is seen |
| 22:50:40 | pamaury | and why don't you want to use a timeout function if that's what you like? Using the timeout of the wait function doesn't seem like a robust solution |
| 22:51:10 | pamaury | or am I misunderstanding what/how you doing |
| 22:51:46 | Bilgus | well the wait function is very robust because if it is not canceled then the backlight turns on anyway |
| 22:52:36 | pamaury | I am sorry I'm not following, I think I'm missing some context here |
| 22:52:52 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:53:37 | Bilgus | ok calls to backlight_on are scattered all over the code I added a function to allow a timeout to be added for backlight on |
| 22:53:55 | Bilgus | when the timeout expires the backlight is turned on |
| 22:54:42 | | Quit alexweissman (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:54:55 | Bilgus | in action.c if an action that doesn't want the backlight occurs then a call to Backlight_cancel_pending is made |
| 22:55:15 | Bilgus | that sets the timeout to 0 effectively disabling the timer |
| 22:55:26 | pamaury | ok, that sounds like a perfect instance for a actual timeout |
| 22:56:16 | Bilgus | yes but there are also up to 3 needed and no way to verify one was added |
| 22:56:31 | Bilgus | per (timeout.c) |
| 22:57:29 | pamaury | why 3 ?? |
| 22:57:59 | Bilgus | backlight, buttonlight, remote_backlight.. maybe not remote but for sure buttonlight |
| 22:58:01 | pamaury | you mean in general or just for backlight? |
| 22:58:21 | pamaury | one is usually used by the sd/mmc code |
| 22:58:54 | pamaury | if you are afraid this is one too many timeouts, why not increase the number of timeouts? |
| 22:59:51 | Bilgus | ^ good idea :) |
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| 23:24:17 | Bilgus | TorC: http://www.mediafire.com/file/otmhaptahjby666/SansaClipZip_selective_BL-SL_REl11-15_rockbox-full.zip |
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| 23:34:07 | TorC | Bilgus: Thanks. Downloaded. I'll install and run tests tonight. |
| 23:56:36 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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