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#rockbox log for 2016-11-15

00:01:21[Saint]See, that's where they get you, TorC. That's what they want you to believe.
00:01:21[Saint]They walk among us.
00:01:21[Saint]Neil Young is actually a pigmy pilot whale in a photorealistic latex suit.
00:01:52[Saint]It's the only reasonable explanation as to why his bullshit marketing of HD audio makes sense.
00:02:57Galoisthe opus codec doesn't even support 44.1khz audio. People should just standardize on 48khz for the sake of not having to support two different things.
00:07:16[Saint]I will freely admit that there is absolutely a time and a place for 32/64/96/192 bit 96/192/384/... encoded audio.
00:07:27[Saint]But this is /not/ in the consumer market.
00:08:01[Saint]If you're mastering an album or a major motion picture, that headroom and resolution is absolutely very useful.
00:08:15[Saint]For Joe Everyday, is absolutely is not.
00:09:08[Saint]Joe Everyday the audiophile however will flatly refuse to believe this and will go to great lengths to attempt to disprove it.
00:09:37[Saint]But hilariously those great lengths never seem to include peer reviewed a/B/X testing though.
00:10:36[Saint]It's all just subjective "I can hear the difference, and if you can't, you're an idiot" statements and the use of frankly hilarious adjectives to describe their shit-brain insanity-riddles subjective claims.
00:13:14[Saint]"It really brings out the caramel tones of the mids, and the crunchy vanilla bran flake taste of the lows and the exciting hit of sharpness and sweetness from the highs."
00:14:05[Saint]"With five essential vitamins and iron, and added dietary fiber, HD audio is essential to a balanced breakfast and the start of a productive day!"
00:14:33[Saint]"Pick up a pack of Audiophile(TM) brand HD wheat flakes at a supermarket near you!"
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00:24:33BilgusI see you've encountered a few of these guys and read their magazines
00:26:10[Saint]Such is the nature of the game in being a volunteer/staffer/moderator here for the better part of a decade.
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00:44:42plococan someone just push this into main? http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/1211/
00:46:20plocoit's not perfect but the hack nothing is perfect in this project.
00:47:08plocoso this patch is just somthing somthing make RaaAoA work again.
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00:48:59 Quit ender` (Quit: The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability you'll get it wrong.— Andy Rooney)
00:50:47[Saint]No.
00:51:02plocorevert one silly patch around of framebuffer and push this, the wheel will rolls again. how complicate is this?
00:51:02[Saint]Rockbox has a Do It Right philosophy.
00:51:12plocohahaha
00:51:48[Saint]No one has any interest in hacking the fuck out of the core to make a port no one cares about function again.
00:52:08plocowhat have you done about the RaaAoA issue [SAINT]?
00:52:19plocosorry [Saint]
00:52:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:54:11plocoyour words are so old that become nothing at all . once again, what have you done about the ART issue? the resolution fragmentation?
00:54:16[Saint]I have done the same thing that many of us did and recognized that hacks on top of hacks to fix up what was never a good idea to begin with is not a way that this project should go.
00:55:00plocoprove it. show me the patch you have done for RaaAoA
00:55:01[Saint]The way forward for RaaA is with a central library and a native UI. Not this mess.
00:56:13plocoits too easy to said then actually do something.
00:56:39[Saint]We've known how to work around this mess for a very long time. You seem to confuse something that can be done with something that should be done.
00:56:47TorC[Saint]: On usefulness of high resolution audio: Yep. That's the same reason it's often useful to have a higher resolution camera and shoot raw - so that you have room to futz with the output.
00:57:37plocowho are we you refer? not include you i know
00:58:12[Saint]You don't know your ass from your elbow.
00:58:55TorC[Saint]: Here's the unofficial theme song of the Audiophiles. I'm sure you'll get a chuckle from it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fJmmDkvQyc
01:00
01:02:23plocopff, what a PM wannabe.
01:02:26 Part ploco
01:03:01[Saint]A who in the what now?
01:08:05[Saint]I honestly don't even know why ploco cares about this. They've been quite happy with their crazy Chinese Rockbox fork where they can add all the hacks they want for the longest time.
01:09:37[Saint]The person who sumitted that gerrit task /has/ direct commit access and knows damn well that just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be and that crazy abuses like this don't belong in core.
01:12:15[Saint]The way forward for Rockbox in Android is with a central library, but without anyone really being able to agree on exactly what that library should or shouldn't handle, and without anyone actually wanting to do the work on it it stagnates.
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02:52:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:58:23__builtinhow do "overlay" plugins work?
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07:03:01Bilgusjohnb2: latest is up on gerrit should be the final one
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09:02:35wodzpamaury: Have you got my mail?
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09:08:48pamaurywodz: yes thanks :)
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09:09:41pamaurywodz: if I have time today, I will push rockboxdev.sh modification to create the sony toolchain (though it will require the swedes to upload things) and maybe you will be able to try to run code on the E470
09:10:36pamaury__builtin: I am not sure but I think overlay plugin are basically plugins loaded by plugins. They need special linking because they are loaded at a different address. But to be honest I never looked into it. Do you have anything more specific to ask?
09:12:16wodzpamaury: What is best way to contribute to nwz port now?
09:12:23wodzpamaury: I mean what is needed
09:13:35wodzplugin ovelays basically load plugins into pcm buf AFAIK so target with small ram can load plugins bigger then codec buffer
09:18:17pamaurywodz: right now, wait until I push the nwz port (that has no driver for anything except display). Then we need to add for the various drivers: keys (should be easy with what I have), touchscreen (same), fmradio (there is a sony proprietary driver in lib/modules), and audio
09:19:08pamauryon audio, they use alsa so I'm going to create a toolchain that links against Sony's alsa, and there some scripts in the rootfs to tweak alsa knobs, change routing, etc... it should be possible to figure out how it works to implement audio routing
09:20:59wodzpamaury: how is usb handled? I saw kernel module related to this in rootfs
09:32:32pamauryah, it's a bit of long story
09:32:47pamauryI have to go to work, but I'll write how usb works in this channel later today
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10:37:27wodzpamaury: I'll try to disassemble icx_si470x_radio_tuner.ko later today
10:45:43pamaurywodz: cool :) I have disassembled a number of things in those rootfs, ask me first so we don't duplicate the work
10:46:01pamauryI haven't looked at icx_si470x_radio_tuner though\
10:46:21pamaurywodz: so about usb, you need to understand the whole architecture of the system
10:46:58wodzpamaury: extracting ioctl interface from this si470x driver should be fairly easy
10:47:11pamaurywodz: also look at sony kernel headers
10:47:19pamaurythey contain the ioctl for some drivers
10:47:35wodzpamaury: where do I look for this sources?
10:47:50pamauryhttp://oss.sony.net/Products/Linux/Audio/NWZ-E473.html
10:48:06pamaurylinux-kernel-2.6.35.tgz is the only really interesting bit
10:49:28pamaurywodz: so the system has managed by a program called sysmgrd. This program is responsible for choosing which program is in the foreground (as well as other things). There are two mains "apps": SpiderApp (the OF interface) and Responder (the MSC/MTP responder)
10:50:09pamaurywhen usb is plugged, sysmgrd will wait under SpiderApp exists and runs Responder. If SpiderApp does not exits, sysmgrd will not kill it, so usb connection is basically not happening.
10:51:14wodzpretty weird
10:51:21pamaurywhen Responder starts, it loads g_nw_xxx (don't remember the name)
10:52:19pamaurythis one is actually a multiplexer that wait for the first usb requests to choose between MTP and MSC. It then forwards all requests to either MTP or MSC driver. The MSC driver is mostly the standard linux one, with g_nw_scsi to handle vendor scsi requests. The MTP driver g_nw_mtp forwards all requests to Responder where they are handled in userspace
10:52:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:53:14pamauryso in short: Rockbox should quit when USB is plugged, to let sysmgrd take care of it
10:53:33pamaurythe usb status can be monitored easily using several Sony's drivers
10:56:03pamauryalso a good thing is the rootfs is mounted read-only, so the user won't be able to modify, that's helpful
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13:10:35wodzpamaury: Did you notice DSP stuff in sony's sources?
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13:27:39pamaurywodz: no, where is it? I am not that interested in the dsp stuff. Or by dsp you mean v2l4 ?
13:30:18wodzpamaury: linux-kernel/arch/arm/mach-emxx/inter_dsp.{c,h}
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13:33:32pamaurywodz: I am not sure what it does
13:33:47pamauryI haven't be able to find any doc on the DSP of the processor
13:34:27wodzpamaury: It looks like general interface to load something (code, data) to core with different arch. Header says Renesas btw
13:34:56pamaurythe dsp is dspk701
13:35:46wodzpamaury: icx_si470x_radio_tuner.h does not contain ioctl codes
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13:37:05pamauryrenesas bought whatever copany produced the mp200 (can't remember it's name). The emxx is the successor of it, so most of the files are probably licenced to Renesas
13:37:28pamaury_ah yeah, the MP200 was created by NEC
13:38:49pamaury_I guess you'll have to reverse engineer the driver then
13:39:40pamaury_does the driver integrate with v4l2 or not?
13:40:01wodzdunno
13:40:42wodzWas stunned by dsp in the name. DSP integrated with core is a relict of past age :-)
13:41:49pamaury_this processor is really old, at least the design of it
13:41:59pamaury_actually I thought the emxx dropped the dsp
13:42:47pamaury_but I don't have the datasheet for the emxx so it was just a guess
13:50:41pamaury_wodz: this page https://www.renesas.com/en-us/products/communications-and-mobile-devices/emma.html does not mention a dsp, it says the emxx has a cortex A9 with neon and a "flexible A/V engine"
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13:54:46wodzpamaury_: Maybe it is relict then
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14:05:52Bilgusjohnb2: how was it?
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15:21:02lebelliumis there anything that can be done to prevent spam on the wiki?
15:39:25pamaury_I don't know, we (gevaerts?) recently made changes to reduce load on the wiki because of spammer that try to edit the wiki, but a lot of bot still defeat account creation :(
15:40:47gevaertszagor
15:40:57gevaertsI have no special powers on the wiki
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15:42:31pamaury_I agree though that it creates a lot of noise, it's impossible to see the recently changed pages
15:42:46pamaury_maybe we could create all new account manually?
15:43:04pamaury_since it needs manual activation to write anyway...
15:54:35lebelliumYes, I don't see the point of creating the account oneself if we need to be added to the users group by a staff member anyway
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16:28:23lebelliumpamaury: what do you want to do on A15? Is it risky? I found a guy owning one on a French forum I'm following. I may ask him if he's interested by some testing
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17:15:27pamaurylebellium: initially just dump the rootfs and try to run the plattforms tools, I don't think there is any risk
17:15:37pamaury(the risk is when you start installing stuff)
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17:24:29Bilguspamaury: with the selective backlight part of this out of the way, selective softlock was cake I have the core stuff working now just need to clean it up, test, and make menus
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19:09:48BilgusSelective Backlight and Selective Softlock Patches are up on Gerrit need some testers :) http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/1417/ ; http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/1418/
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19:12:00TheLemonManoh, that's an interesting feature
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19:14:46Bilgusthank pamaury he set me on the path of the second one and pixelma for the selective context actions instead of buttons
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19:15:06johnb2Bilgus: I just returned home from work.
19:15:46johnb2Should I compile with both patches (selBacklight and softlock) for testing or keep them separate?
19:16:11Bilgusthe fuzev2 has a hold button so selective softlock won't work for you but I think you will be pleased with selective backlighting
19:16:48Bilgusbut you can do w/e selective softlock just won't work
19:17:51johnb2I will start with clip+ anyway and then go for Fuze. So I will apply both patches ...
19:18:27Bilguscool I haven't tested selective softlock on my clip+ yet only the fuze+
19:19:53Bilgusyou'll have to do the 1417 then 1418 I believe since it builds from functions in it
19:20:25johnb2thanks, that's what I figured.
19:25:45johnb2Is it good enough to "make bin" only?
19:29:56Bilgusdoubt it since the lang file changed too
19:30:09johnb2ok, doing all
19:31:28Bilgushave to make fullzip but you can copy langs/english.land and rockbox.sansa only
19:32:25Bilgus*.lang
19:32:43johnb2got it
19:38:25Bilgusbb in a few hours
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20:17:55johnb2uploaded the builds here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rlj64r54vxparsz/rockbox.clipplus.zip?dl=0
20:18:11johnb2https://www.dropbox.com/s/94d8vfb4w5ss551/rockbox.fuzev2.zip?dl=0
20:24:07johnb2Bilgus: Clip+: Well done!
20:26:35johnb2I had run also the version from last night (with the shutdown problem). This one had one addtl. problem: Seek was not selected in the menu, but still during seed the display would stay off and only turn on when seeking had been stopped.
20:28:12johnb2This is gone with this build and been reduced to the roughly 0.5s delay/lag that happens with any button that is supposed to turn on the display. I guess that due to a timeout you are using.
20:29:10johnb2I have not found any issue neither with selective backlight nor the softlock.
20:31:27johnb2bb in 1/2h
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20:43:44TorCBilgus: Hmmm... mightn't it be possible to set the patch use the delay to get the code you need, and then if backlight not desired, cancel it, or if wanted, issue the order to turn it on immediately? I haven't gotten to try it yet (I have zip available to test with, and haven't worked through compiling yet), but IIRC, you introduced the delay to deal with the backlight not staying off because of a temporary keycode that got put through.
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20:50:29johnb2I personally pay the price of that delay in turning on the display, but surely if there are other ways to do it that would be great.
20:50:54johnb2I now moving on with the FuzeV2.
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20:52:54johnb2^ am
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21:16:08johnb2FuzeV2: the flickering of the display when using the scroll wheel that I had reported earlier is gone.
21:17:23johnb2Similar behaviour as with the Clip+, no problems so far. I will continue with some more testing tomorrow.
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21:45:20Bilgusjohnb2 & TorC the reason for the dealsy is the resolution of the backlight queue.. HZ or approx 1 second, I tried preempting that delay in the prior release but just ended up creating a race condition.. I thought about using a timer and callback to do it but I need to talk to someone who knows more about the available timers across all targets perhaps using a timer if available and falling back to the button queue if needed
21:54:05BilgusI found a function timeout_register() ill start playing with it..
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22:09:30BilgusI think I can register a timeout with this but since there is no way to figure out if it was actually added or not I'll leave the other one as well to fall back on
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22:39:53Bilguspamaury do you know anything about the timer subsystem?
22:40:51TorCBilgus: I'd be glad to test on Zip, but I haven't worked out compiling, and won't have time to delve into that for a while. Can test tonight my time. I'll check logs if I'm not around.
22:41:05pamauryBilgus: some, I know how it's implemented I think
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22:43:37BilgusI'm wondering how constrained the timeout function is I see it has 8 possible slots and its used all over the code I'd hate to have a callback not occur on something important like the BL I can decrease the queue wait timeout when I enable wait on the backlight but I'm wondering what else that might impact
22:45:06pamauryI am not sure I follow the last thing you said, you want to decrease what?
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22:48:10Bilgusqueue_wait_w_tmo(&backlight_queue, &ev, BACKLIGHT_THREAD_TIMEOUT);
22:48:55Bilgusit is how the backlight code deques
22:48:59pamauryand why exactly do you want to change the timeout?
22:49:21pamauryI don't see the link between the timeout function and the timeout of the queue wait
22:49:31Bilguswell currently I have a timeout of 1second which is the max resolution
22:49:44BilgusI only need .5 or less
22:50:37Bilgusthere is a slightly noticable delay when selective backlight is enabled and when a keypress that does activate backlight is seen
22:50:40pamauryand why don't you want to use a timeout function if that's what you like? Using the timeout of the wait function doesn't seem like a robust solution
22:51:10pamauryor am I misunderstanding what/how you doing
22:51:46Bilguswell the wait function is very robust because if it is not canceled then the backlight turns on anyway
22:52:36pamauryI am sorry I'm not following, I think I'm missing some context here
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22:53:37Bilgusok calls to backlight_on are scattered all over the code I added a function to allow a timeout to be added for backlight on
22:53:55Bilguswhen the timeout expires the backlight is turned on
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22:54:55Bilgusin action.c if an action that doesn't want the backlight occurs then a call to Backlight_cancel_pending is made
22:55:15Bilgusthat sets the timeout to 0 effectively disabling the timer
22:55:26pamauryok, that sounds like a perfect instance for a actual timeout
22:56:16Bilgusyes but there are also up to 3 needed and no way to verify one was added
22:56:31Bilgusper (timeout.c)
22:57:29pamaurywhy 3 ??
22:57:59Bilgusbacklight, buttonlight, remote_backlight.. maybe not remote but for sure buttonlight
22:58:01pamauryyou mean in general or just for backlight?
22:58:21pamauryone is usually used by the sd/mmc code
22:58:54pamauryif you are afraid this is one too many timeouts, why not increase the number of timeouts?
22:59:51Bilgus^ good idea :)
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23:24:17BilgusTorC: http://www.mediafire.com/file/otmhaptahjby666/SansaClipZip_selective_BL-SL_REl11-15_rockbox-full.zip
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23:34:07TorCBilgus: Thanks. Downloaded. I'll install and run tests tonight.
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