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#rockbox log for 2016-11-28

00:00:02[Saint]If that becomes an issue I am happy to direct you on how to achieve this.
00:00:31[Saint]Actually, searching the forums using Google's advanced search params will probably dig up me explaining htis a half dozen times toother people.
00:00:47[Saint]*to other
00:00:48cohokiller673ok i'll look into it, thanks
00:01:09[Saint]This is only something so consider if you head unit decides to be a dick about things.
00:01:45[Saint]There's a very good chance it might not, and an approximately equal change it might.
00:02:27[Saint]Often even if a device is willing to address an ipod using universal mass storage it will freak out if there is no itunes database present to extract media from.
00:02:44[Saint]The only real way around that is telling it that it isn't an ipod, forcibly.
00:03:28cohokiller673I have a feeling it will be a dick and detect it as an ipod because the stereo advertises a ipod accessory that connects to the back of the unit as the only way of playing ipods
00:07:58[Saint]well, gimme a poke if/when that happens.
00:19:59*__builtin prods himself to get the custom VID/PIDs working
00:30:33pamaurysomeone knows bash vs sh very well?
00:31:23pamauryit is normal that:
00:31:24pamauryVAR="bla" my_function
00:31:24pamaurywill set VAR only temporarily in bash but globally in sh (ie VAR is still "bla" after the command is executed)
00:31:46[Saint]__builtin: we kinda had this discussion and we really don't want to allow users to set a custom VID/PID.
00:32:08[Saint]Technical ability or lack of development interest isn't the reason why this hasn't happened.
00:32:12__builtin"custom" as in the ones from openmoko
00:32:31[Saint]Ah. Right.
00:32:42*[Saint] argues it isn't custom if it is assigned to your org.
00:35:35[Saint]pamaury: AFAIK it should be the same for both.
00:35:58pamaury[Saint]: that's what I expected but it is not the case on my computer
00:39:01pamauryI don't know if I'm doing something wrong but this seems against the spec
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00:48:44[Saint]pamaury: I made two very basic tests
00:48:48[Saint]I can not reproduce this.
00:49:12pamaurywow, this is crazy
00:49:22[Saint]I did:
00:49:28[Saint]printf $FOO
00:49:29DBUGEnqueued KICK [Saint]
00:49:55[Saint]printf $RAB
00:50:15[Saint]neither $FOO nor $RAM exist after the scripts are run.
00:50:46pamaury[Saint]: this works in both, my problem is with something like this:
00:50:46pamauryVAR="bla" cmd
00:50:46pamaury# at this point, $VAR should be empty, but it is not in sh
00:50:52pamaurysee the pastebin above
00:51:32[Saint]isn't that identical just with weirder formatting?
00:51:37[Saint]mine just has linebreaks.
00:52:05pamaurywell no it's entirely different
00:52:28pamaurysee in the pastebin: the assignment is supposed to the local to the command, in bash indeed it works
00:55:26pamauryhum, so apparently it works if the command a program but not if it's a function
00:55:35pamaurygreat, another subtle dash vs bash different
00:57:36[Saint]it also works if command is a variable.
00:57:46[Saint]this is odd indeed.
00:58:14CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
00:58:14*pamaury wonders if he should switch from sh to bash
00:58:29pamaurythat would be way simpler, I can't imagine a system with bash these days
00:58:52[Saint]I pretty much always aim for sh safe bash, when I know things to be sh unsafe.
00:59:00[Saint]this is something I had never encountered before.
00:59:03__builtinif someone's building on a system without bash they'll likely have bigger problems than that
00:59:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:59:28pamauryI usually avoid things that are really bash specific but this is crazy
01:00:06pamaury__builtin: most embedded systems don't have bash
01:00:19pamaurythey don't even have sh, they busybox that implements its own sh
01:00:48[Saint]some people also like to be assholes and link $SHELL to /crazy/flavor/of/the/month/term
01:01:14[Saint]real fun when you are debugging weird shit and find out you're not even working in a sane shell and people went out of their way to fuck you.
01:01:35[Saint]I have seen diversions of /bin/bash and /bin/sh to all sorts of fucky terms.
01:05:10 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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02:25:13 Quit krnlyng (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
02:27:04 Join dima_ [0] (47ee5f61@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
02:27:39dima_would i be able to put an ipod 6g housing on my ipod 5g? particularly this one
02:27:54dima_i cant find ANY thick 5g housings on amazon, only the 6g
02:28:56dima_there's also one for the 60gb model, but im not sure if that will fit either
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02:38:53[Saint]The dimensions are not identical.
02:39:08[Saint]they are similar enough that flex cases can be adjusted to fit.
02:39:17[Saint]hard cases...nope.
02:39:32[Saint]just enough offset to be really annoying.
02:44:23 Join Bilgus [0] (ae6611d9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
02:46:13BilgusMiles: I let those songs play for 12hrs on an actual clip+ and 24hrs in the sim and couldn't get it to hang or anything weird I figured I'd wait and see if boosting during GUI helped you
02:47:56MilesIt would seem so.
02:48:17MilesStopped having my problem once I started using your build.
02:49:15MilesSome fine folk here gave me a couple of new ideas about things to test to narrow down the cause.
02:49:51BilgusIf you can figure out a way to reproduce we can strat looking into why..
02:50:20MilesFor example I remembered all my Opus files have 60 ms frame sizes (encoder default is 20 and none of the Rockbox dev test files are over 20)
02:51:04BilgusI would assume your test files woul have a 60ms frame though right?
02:51:57BilgusIs this clip+ an ams v1 or v2?
02:52:44MilesI thought they were all v2?
02:52:51Bilgusmenu>system>debugmenu> hw info
02:53:46MilesCan I get out of the usb-plugged screen without unplugging it?
02:53:55MilesFile transfer going on right now.
02:54:26MilesOr we can wait like ten minutes.
02:54:37Bilgusoh they might be I'm just trying to figure out if there is some difference
02:54:54Bilgusnp I have some code to work on
02:56:07MilesI played around some more and found some settings I tend to change from the defaults makes it more likely to reproduce.
02:56:32MilesThough I did still get it with all-defaults like once.
02:57:03MilesSample rate 48000, dithering on, crossfade custom.
02:57:17dima_[Saint]: alright. thanks for the advice. ill see about finding one locally.
02:57:19MilesIm guessing those all push it past some critical CPU usage threshold.
02:57:20 Quit dima_ (Quit: Page closed)
02:58:38MilesI'll try with 20ms frame files on unmodified firmware with my usual settings later and see if that changes anything too.
02:59:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:59:53BilgusI tried with crossfade sr 4800 no dithering though
03:00:10MilesOh okay.
03:00:15MilesDunno then.
03:02:20Bilguswell if boosting the gui thread helped though thats probably a codec issue
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03:08:26MilesIt says ams v2 variant 1 btw.
03:08:56Bilgussame as the one I tested on
03:34:39 Quit Miles (Quit: Page closed)
04:19:00BilgusSelective Backlight / Softlock Fuze+, FuzeV2, Clip +, ClipZip, CowonD2,544b3c6y3kfv0s8,5qg7rf0r23ts17s,4sls5dmutl934da,rg3rpfuqb1vpu53/shared
04:19:39BilgusTorC, Johnb2: ^
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04:59:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:16:58TorCBilgus: Thanks. Installing now.
05:21:20Bilguscheck everything you had issues with before I totally re-wrote the action handling part to fix scrollwheel problems in the FuzeV2 the menus are also much nicer in fuctionality and disable ext power has a new value so might want to check your settings to be sure they are set properly
05:23:38TorCBilgus: I'm checking. Haven't found any problems yet, but I think the clips were pretty much working before.
05:24:11TorCI'm not sold on the current menu handling as best yet.
05:24:59Bilgussure but anytime you rewrite the core there is the possibility of introducing new bugs gotchas I tested for everything I could remember that was an issue
05:25:22TorCOf course. I'll be putting it through its paces.
05:26:14Bilgusproblem was there is no handling for button presses so anytime you selected yes even if you hit back<(cancel) it still popped up the mask selection.. this way it works as expected
05:26:27TorCThinking out loud here. What about moving the enable/disable into the rest of the settings for selBL and selSL?
05:26:39TorCAs the first line item, that is.
05:26:49Bilguswas mainly an issue for using voice menus
05:27:37Bilgusit could be done but since it is handled by the mask it takes less code to leave it in with the other items
05:28:15TorCAh. Something I don't use, so don't pay attention to. It just feels a bit odd to be thrown out of the selBL settings after selecting the buttons.
05:28:42Bilgusthat can be changed..
05:29:19Bilguswell neither do I but if i was blind I woulkd like it to be intuitive
05:30:11TorCCould there, instead of two lines, Y/N, be a single line check/uncheck like the buttons in the submenu? Then, the button selection return to main selBL settings?
05:31:01TorCMaybe that doesn't work so well for voice, though.
05:32:19Bilgusnot with the current items available to the rockbox menus, the selection one is what I made for this, now you could have it be one line that switches from enabled to disabled and back
05:33:59TorCThat's what I may have said unclearly.
05:36:25Bilgusit would still have settings separate though, I really liked going directly into settings but there was no way to get button presses from the menu handler only menu_enter, menu_exit and menu_load and the item :/
05:39:48TorCI could see, where there is now No, Yes, and Settings, instead, Enable (check/uncheck, stay at same menu level), and Settings. Settings is as it is now, but returns up one level in case you started with changing settings and now want to enable/disable. I think it would feel more natural to me.
05:41:43Bilgusk I'll do that it won't check it'll change from enabled to disabled to enabled and drop back into the menu you started in
05:43:23TorCI'll give it a try. I think you're getting into corner cases that don't have a perfect slot onto the existing menu behaviour, and I haven't had a lot of time to think about it.
05:44:05TorCI'm sure if there is an objectively right option it will feel so the moment it's put into practice, but finding may be tricky.
05:47:18TorCIt has crossed my mind to wonder if the settings and enable/disable should be separated out, but that won't be entirely nice for Clip+ users, who have a vertically short screen.
05:47:59TorCAlso, if it isn't obvious from the beginning of the option which one it is, it will annoy Zip users, who have a narrow screen.
05:48:52BilgusEn and Dis isn't too difficult to figure out
05:49:49Bilgusso maybe just leave yes and no and settings just make it stay in the menu when you select options?
05:50:21TorCTht fin. I was just referring to if selBL were separated into a yes/no menu and separate settings menu.
05:51:09[Saint]well, it's not like text can't scroll.
05:51:11TorCI think leaving y/n may be just as well. Perhaps make it stay in the menu when you select options, and put the settings first to encourage people to make their choice before saying Y/N.
05:51:50TorCText can scroll, true. But being able to know which is which without having to let the text scroll make usability much better IMO.
05:52:28TorCLetting it scroll because you have no idea what it is, and want to find out is fine, and a very important feature.
05:53:14[Saint]you don't have to let it scroll.
05:53:25TorCBilgus: With the Y/N first, I find it encourages choosing that first, which will (and I don't see a way around it) boot one away from the settings.
05:53:30[Saint]you've always been able to force text to scroll.
05:53:33Bilgusonly problem with putting settings first is that yes or no will always be selected depending on which is true, then the users have to hit the up button 1 or 2 x or down 1 or 2 which is slightly annoying
05:53:36*[Saint] gestures at the manual.
05:53:41[Saint]try it sometime.
05:54:10TorCI've read a good portion of the fine manual. That doesn't mean I've picked up everything.
05:54:21[Saint]you never have to wait for a setting to scroll, you can elect to force it as well.
05:56:09TorCBilgus: I see what you mean about that. I suppose most people are going to figure out how they want their player to behave, and then it will lie untouched for months or more, so a minor oddity that is hard to avoid isn't that big a deal.
05:56:47Bilgusi think settings no dropping out is one to change though
05:57:26TorCI do agree with that. Going up two levels is something I can't think of happening anywhere else in RB.
05:58:03TorCThe closest is using the home button to return to main menu, but that will go arbitrarily many levels as needed, so that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.
06:01:39TorC[Saint]: Turns out I've read that on scrolling manually, but not quite grokked what it meant. Now I know.
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06:03:33TorCWell, I've got to get some work done. I'll see about keeping some testing going while I'm at it, Bilgus.
06:04:15Bilgusk thx
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09:31:27acmy laptop's bios doesn't boot whenever I plug my DAP on the back USB port, any idea why ?
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09:37:16duo8unplug it
09:39:01TorCProbably your laptop's BIOS is trying to boot from the DAP that looks like UMS. The other fix would be to tell the BIOS to boot from HDD before USB, but then if you want to boot from USB you would need to catch it and press the proper key during BIOS initialization.
09:44:12acTorC: my bios boots from HDD, it's just that if I connect the DAP to the back USB port, it hangs at first screen, before it even displays the message "press Enter to access BIOS config"
09:44:43acI'm just wondering why
09:44:48acI'm not asking for a fix
09:44:53acI'm not that stupid
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10:01:20pamauryac: that's a very common problem
10:01:31pamaurybecause buggy BIOS
10:06:32acpamaury: oh, so it's not a feature :)
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10:06:44acI was wondering what kind of weird feature this would be :)
10:07:04acpamaury: do you have any idea why it happens with the back USB port only ?
10:07:30acbtw the back USB port is colored in yellow
10:08:33gevaertsIIRC yellow USB ports are "always on", as in they provide power even when the laptop is off
10:08:41gevaertsSo they are a bit different
10:09:31acgevaerts: you mean when the laptop is suspended
10:10:08gevaertsWell, maybe, but I don't remember anything about that :)
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11:17:19johnb2Bilgus: I fail to download from the links you posted (being interested in the clip+ and fuzev2).
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11:41:33pamaury_gevaerts: do you know why asks specifically for sh?
11:41:55pamaury_is that to make it more compatible ?
11:42:19gevaertsNo idea
11:42:24gevaertsBefore my time :)
11:44:15wodzI'd say change it to bash and try to not use weird bash specific extension. Someone determined might then port it to whatever shell it likes
11:44:19wodzpamaury: ^
11:44:56wodzAnd I guess it comes from days where sh means borne shell and not csh
11:46:02pamaury_wodz: I don't know if you saw my messages yesterday, my issue is that in sh, this:
11:46:02pamaury_VAR=bla cmd
11:46:02pamaury_will have the unexpected effect of assignement VAR even after the statement (ie it is not a temporary assignment) if cmd is a function (but it will temporary if it's another program ran in a subshell)
11:46:34pamaury_which is a little bit crazy
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11:52:57pamaury_[Saint]: I was thinking, since I'm reworking, maybe we could give a try at producing some binary packages ? I think thinking mostly producing deb files but ideas are welcome
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12:59:52Bilgusjohnb2: I was able to download them, what exactly is wrong?
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14:06:12wodzpamaury: how is your crusade with crosscompiler for sony going?
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14:10:35pamaury_wodz: making a lot of progress, I can now compile binutils, first stage gcc, kernel headers and glibc
14:10:42pamaury_I just need to finish second stage gcc and alsa
14:10:57pamaury_I also I will try to "port" ypr0 toolchain at the same time
14:12:37wodzpamaury_: by port you mean upgrade, right?
14:12:51pamaury_yeah I mean have an ypr0 toolchain build without ct-ng
14:13:02gevaertsrb-ng? :)
14:13:42pamaury_but since I don't know ypr0 well enough, I don't know which component are important or not, I upgraded to gcc 4.9.4 and binutils 2.26. But I'm stuc at glibc 2.12 that isn't compiling for now
14:14:10wodzpamaury: I guess you need to stick to glibc version present on the device
14:14:13pamaury_also I was thinking that since I'm at it, I'm wondering if it's worth try to create binary package (like .deb) for toolchains
14:15:06wodzpamaury_: this idea was expressed long time ago. IMO tar.gz/tar.bz2 and untarring to /opt/something is the simplest
14:15:23wodzunless you'd like to maintain this package :P
14:21:08 Quit johnb2 (Quit: Page closed)
14:21:30pamaury_what I don't like about /opt/ is that it requires root access
14:22:38pamaury_anyway, I'm just focusing on, we can discuss later we want to distribute pre-built binaries
14:24:18wodzpamaury_: what are the alternatives? /usr/local (root access), /home/<something> which will be different on every machine. How linaro build their toolchains? IIRC you can unpack it wherever you want and it still works
14:26:43pamaury_I know, it's just super annoying that all the paths are hard-coded into gcc
14:27:38wodzcurrently I'd say go vm
14:28:36pamaury_downloading a full vm just for a few toolchains seems like overkill though
14:29:01pamaury_although updating the vm we have would be a good thing
14:30:49gevaertsHaving a vm to download for people who want it is very nice, but *only* having a full vm for people who want a toolchain is annoying
14:31:01gevaertsWell, that's not entirely true
14:31:21gevaertsIf rockboxdev works reliably, that chages
14:31:34pamaury_it's still a massive pain to build toolchains
14:31:47pamaury_because every newer version of gcc makes it harder to build them
14:38:09kugelis ct-ng making problems?
14:38:33kugelI wonder why nobody is able to build a ypr0 toolchain. ct-ng was meant to avoid exactly this
14:40:01kugelwodz: recent enough (a couple of years) toolchains can be installed everywhere
14:40:28kugelthey have a −−sysroot option for the "runtime prefix", which is autodetected if not set
14:42:12pamaury_hum, interesting new compile error here in glibc: # error "glibc cannot be compiled without optimization"
14:50:08wodzpamaury_: lol - I tried to build recent clang to check building rockbox and/or hwstub with it. First cmake on my box is too old which is pretty easy to avoid, second gcc is too old.
14:51:37pamaury_lol, that's funny, how "old" is your gcc?
14:51:58wodzwell, old. This is 14.04LTS box
14:52:30pamaury_yeah that's old
14:53:19wodzthere are 3.9 prebuit binaries for 14.04. How the hell they managed to build this
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15:01:20pamaurywodz: aren't clang packages in LTS ?
15:02:32wodzpamaury: some old one
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15:07:19johnb2_Bilgus: For both and I get: your session expired. Enter password.
15:07:36johnb2_Same for the others.
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15:16:23wodzpamaury: you compiled hwstub with clang, do you remember how?
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15:22:17pamaurywodz: probably by playing on CROSS="blabla" make ?
15:22:50pamauryor PREFIX=
15:23:14pamauryhave a look at the makefile, there is a variable change the cross compiler prefix
15:23:42wodzpamaury: It doesn't work that easy. clang tries to call host's ld for final linking
15:24:02wodzthere was a switch for that but can't remember which
15:24:19pamauryah yeah I remember the problem, hum
15:25:00pamauryclang usually uses -target <target tripler>
15:28:08pamaurywodz: try adding -target=arm-elf-eabi to GCCOPTS (I'm looking at stmp Makefile but I guess the others are similar)
15:28:21pamauryyou probably need to do the same for LDFLAGS
15:28:57pamauryor rather, replace:
15:28:57DBUGEnqueued KICK pamaury
15:28:57pamauryCC=$(PREFIX)gcc -target arm-elf-eabi
15:28:57pamauryand similarly for the others
15:29:01pamaurysee if it works
15:31:03wodzalmost /home/wodz/crosstoolchains/lib/gcc/mipsel-elf/4.1.2/../../../../mipsel-elf/bin/ld: error: no memory region specified for loadable section `.reginfo'
15:31:31wodzwhich means it picked up good linker but then it doesn't know what to do with .reginfo section
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15:32:57pamaurywodz: you probably need to ignore .reginfo in the linker file
15:33:11pamauryit's a "new" section produced by mips compilers these days
15:33:39pamaury/DISCARD/ : { *(.reginfo) }
15:34:12wodzpamaury: you need to drop -Wno-override-init as well since it is not supported by 'new' compilers
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15:34:45pamaurywodz: feel free to drop a patch in gerrit or push a change, otherwise I might forget ;)
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16:47:26rogeliodhpamaury: believe it or not, the dash (sh) behaviour is POSIX. If you run bash −−posix it will behave the same. See this thread for more pointers: (specially
16:52:17pamauryrogeliodh: the original posix text was actually not very ambiguous imo, only the later posix made this behaviour explicitely unspecified, which is very confusing. Also the man page of dash contains the original posix description. That sounds like a "let's fix the standard instead of the tools" case ;)
16:53:00pamaurybut thanks for the links :)
16:54:15rogeliodhI agree, it wasn't really ambiguous. I ended up more confused some months ago when I read it. I just assumed that the new POSIX behavior is that in-line variables pre non-builtin functions are declared as globals
16:54:55rogeliodhif I want to keep them scoped to the function I use:
16:54:55rogeliodh(var=bla print_var)
16:55:19pamauryyes exactly, which is really ugly and confusing
16:56:55rogeliodhyes, and it spawns a new sub-shell, so also inefficient
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17:04:50aj25how do i install plugins
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17:06:37aj25does anybody know how to install plugins on sansa clip+
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17:07:07pamaury_aj25: plugins are distributed with rockbox
17:07:17pamaury_if you installed rockbox, you should already have them
17:07:24aj25so i do not need to install them?
17:07:29aj25maybe i missed something then
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17:09:05pamaury_that was fast...
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19:52:08aj25Is there any way to run other DOS games than doom on rockbox?
19:54:26aj25anyone here?
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19:55:40aj25anyone knows how to run other DOS games on rockbox?
19:55:44aj25if it is even possible
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21:20:11pamaurywodz_: my sony toolchains seems to work, only alsa remains
21:22:58pamaurylebellium: do you have the YP-R0?
21:23:07lebelliumI only have 5
21:23:58lebelliumIt's the best mp3 player ever made
21:24:03lebelliumI should have 10 of it
21:24:05lebelliumthat will come
21:24:26pamaurylol, at the same time I'm building the sony toolchain I am rebuild the ypr0 toolchain with more... modern components. Would you mind trying it when it's ready?
21:25:36lebelliumbut as you know, I already have a working toolchain for YP-R0. Can I keep it in case your new one doesn't work?
21:26:17pamaurylebellium: I think initially I will just send you a build that I did, and if it works, you can try to install it
21:27:38pamaurydo you know where yours is installed? If not, can you run:
21:27:38pamaurywhich arm-ypr0-linux-gnueabi-gcc
21:28:21lebelliumlast time you said it was a wrong choice
21:28:34lebelliumI'll tell you
21:29:44lebellium /usr/local/bin/arm-ypr0-linux-gnueabi-gcc
21:30:31pamauryah yeah I remember now :-p
21:31:23lebelliumcan't I just copy and paste elsewhere? \o/
21:32:21pamaurylebellium: well just problem is that because it's installed in /usr, it's spread all around
21:32:40pamaurywhich mean you would need to know exactly which file to copy...
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21:48:32BilgusJohnb2: if you copy and paste the whole link it should work
21:50:31johnb2you are right. Thanks.
21:50:40 Quit smoke_fumus (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium
21:52:12CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
21:52:12*pamaury suspects alsa-lib is no properly honouring −−build= option
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22:03:01pamaurysigh, the autotool would be so much if ./configure −−help displayed some actual help
22:13:48pamaurynoooooooo, rockbox almost compile, I just have ONE SINGLE FREAKING undefine reference in alsa :'(
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22:28:42pamauryyay finally builds \o/
22:48:11pamauryhum except rockbox crashes after a few seconds of displaying the logo
22:48:24pamaurymakes the whole device reboot which is a bit weird
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22:59:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:57:54 Quit ender` (Quit: Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'— Isaac Asimov)

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