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#rockbox log for 2016-12-14

00:01:50 Join chrisjj [0] (5001d87b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
00:02:01gevaertsNow of course we can also just ignore the issue
00:02:32bluebrotheror use something in-between by linking dynamically and ignoring that this doesn't solve the issue completely :)
00:03:29bluebrotherI personally don't mind if my GPL licensed code is linked against openssl, since you can still use my code according to the GPL. But that's just my opinion.
00:03:53pamaurygevaerts: I meant that it seems unlikely one of our devs will object. And if users object we can ignore them
00:04:42chrisjjpamaury, I'd appreciate any more inside info on the recent ZEN LCD BSoD improvement to help my testing. E.g. to what variables was the fail sensitive ... if not just completely random.
00:05:01bluebrotherhmm. There's no issue with LGPL vs openssl, right?
00:06:39gevaertsI believe so
00:07:00pamaurychrisjj: I traced it back to a hardware bug, that I can reproduce fairly well (it's still random but at least I know what happens). But since this hardware bug is not in any errata, I am not sure entirely sure how to workaround it
00:07:42pamaurychrisjj: can you confirm that the problem always happen in the bootloader ?
00:08:06chrisjjConfirm on latest or previous?
00:08:27pamauryor maybe latest because I'm unsure about the previous
00:08:31pamauryit was quite old I think
00:09:00chrisjjPrevious: no. The problem happens on some boots and some USB dis/connects
00:09:43bluebrothergood. We do have LGPL code imported.
00:09:58chrisjjCurrent: Tests so far show the problem rarely occurs on boot. Test have not yet targetted USB.
00:10:18chrisjjYes, previous was +2yrs back IIRC.
00:11:25pamaurychrisjj: did you at least notice an improvement with the new code ?
00:11:39chrisjjRe current, because the problem occurrence on boot is rare, and I have no logging, I can't say if it is in the boot loader.
00:12:44chrisjjYes, a big improvement. So far six units on automated test show fail on boot is 1 in >=100.
00:12:51chrisjjPrevious was 1 in 5.
00:13:25pamauryoh, awesome :) that matches my tests then, I'd done around 50 boots without any hang
00:13:29*bluebrother out for today
00:14:10chrisjjIf you use the clip trick, you'll get a hang, I think.
00:16:09pamauryOk I'll try it. The problem is that when the problem occurs, it's too late to solve it and it does not necessarily gives a solution to fix it. I only have a partial understanding of why the hardware goes crazy
00:16:32pamauryBut I'll keep trying
00:17:26chrisjjIs there any trick or logging that I can apply to show you at what stage the hang is occurring?
00:18:13pamauryno, I've spent many hours last week-end on it and I know exactly where it fails now. But as I said, when you reach this point, it is too late, the hardware can be recovered :(
00:18:40 Quit ender (Quit: I always wanted to have a job in construction or at a hardware store just so I could eat some pink cotton candy in front of someone in a situation that would make them think I was eating fiberglass insulation. — Chris Hallbeck)
00:19:16chrisjjThe hardware can NOT be recovered??
00:19:23pamaurynot until chip reset
00:20:09chrisjjOK. So are we saying there's no value is knowing at what stage the actual hang takes place?
00:20:55pamaurythe nature of the problem makes it irrelevant
00:21:04chrisjjGot you. So please clarify: what do you mean by "can you confirm that the problem always happen /in/ /the/ /bootloader/"?
00:21:51pamauryI remember so old report about the BSoD happening after boot (I think on backlight on/off) but this problem should be completely fixed
00:22:11chrisjjSome what?
00:22:39pamaury*some old reports
00:23:31chrisjjYes, I reported the BSoD occurring soon after boot. Checking...
00:28:05chrisjjOriginal report here:,13462.75.html "Sometimes upon Rockbox program launch, the device goes unresponsive to buttons, showing a black screen"
00:30:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:31:26chrisjjAt that time, the BsOD was after "Executing", so I take it that does not say whether it is in the bootloader or not. And I take it by "in the bootloader" you really mean sometime after boot and before Rockbox logo.
00:32:21chrisjjThis is the issue I am saying is now rare. If I could catch the rare remaining fail by eye or with some logging , I'd be able to say whether the original issue has gone completely and this is a different fail, or the original issue is greatly reduced though not eliminated.
00:35:51pamauryThere are basically two points in time where it can fail:
00:35:51pamaury1) even before any logo is displayed: you'll most probably see the Creative logo slowly fade away to black (or the screen become white/grey in some rare cases): this is what I call "in bootloader"
00:35:51pamaury2) after "Executing", when starting the main firmware: you'll typically get a black screen
00:35:51DBUGEnqueued KICK pamaury
00:35:51pamauryNormally, 2) should be gone and 1) is what I fixed. Although if you don't see it happen, if might not be obvious which one it
00:37:47pamaury(note that 1 and 2 are in fact related, simply in case 2 we have more latitude to workaround the problem compared to 1)
00:41:36 Quit Elfish (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
00:41:46CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
00:41:46*pamaury goes to bed after noticing that Sony changed the keycode of some devices
00:43:26pamaurychrisjj: thanks for the report, I'll keep investigating
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01:21:13chrisjjCan anyone tell me what ZEN buttons map to VOL UP and VOL DOWN?
01:43:33__builtinchrisjj: looks like BUTTON_UP/BUTTON_DOWN to me
01:43:44 Join alexweissman [0] (
01:50:50chrisjjThanks. Got it. Watching the WPS volume indicator, I thought the buttons were having no effect, but now I see the indicator changes on only one in sixteen presses. (I have no audio output currently.)
01:52:10chrisjjSwitching to rockbox_failsafe, which shows every vol change.
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02:01:56 Quit skapazzo (Quit: Lost terminal)
02:06:27 Join Bilgus_ph [0] (4cf32773@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
02:06:58__builtindoes g#1431 have any possible side effects?
02:07:19Bilgus_phchrisjj: it all depends on your theme it seems cabbie takes a number of presses to show vol change
02:09:11 Join PurlingNayuki [0] (~Thunderbi@2001:da8:215:4ff:b18e:fbe0:3f4f:c2e6)
02:11:35chrisjjYes. Cabbie seems unduly low-res here. The indicator has pixel positions that are needlessly idle.
02:13:15 Quit PurlingNayuki (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:15:00Bilgus_phwell it uses two bitmaps and just hides/shows a portion of the solid color one I believe
02:19:47chrisjjSure, but the hiding is in five-pixel chunks .
02:21:44Bilgus_phnope looking at the cabbie source it is using multi bitmaps from a single one
02:22:00Bilgus_phand there are 9 sets
02:22:38chrisjjThis is on Creative ZEN. Do you see this chunking on your device?
02:23:28Bilgus_phso choose a different theme or edit your own I seriously doubt it will get changed since it works, I see it on the clip+ and fuze with cabbie
02:23:46Bilgus_phand fuze+ too
02:24:32chrisjjAh, now I see what you mean in the source. A separate sprite for each one.
02:24:43Bilgus_ph you can grab the source from here and edit it to your liking
02:25:12 Quit krnlyng (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
02:25:53chrisjjSo if I make my own theme, can I provide 45 sprites to cover all volume levels?
02:25:55Bilgus_phit was probably around before the better way of doing it was incorporated
02:26:10Bilgus_phNO don't do that there is a better way now
02:26:16chrisjjAh, the better way. :-) Where can I find that?
02:30:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:35:39Bilgus_phI can't find it in the wps manual.. but i will explain it to you
02:36:06Bilgus_phactually hold on and i will find a theme that uses it
02:37:23Bilgus_phObv this isn't for your player but you can get the idea
02:37:40Bilgus_phit has a bmp with the bar and the outline of the bar
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02:39:02Bilgus_phok i guess 3 states min max and the volume
02:39:33Bilgus_phlet me know once you open it and I can splain it to you
02:46:10TorCchrisjj: You can set the volume/battery to show numeric level/percentage. I believe themes can override that, though. YMMV.
02:46:31Bilgus_phok so first go to the wps/eden dir and open volume9px.bmp
02:46:36TorCGot to go now. Check the manual if browsing the menu doesn't give it to you.
02:47:50Bilgus_phnote that there are 3 sets of images
02:49:24Bilgus_phdoesn't look like cabbie follows that directive to me TorC when I made my theme I had to explicity check for the numeric directive and implement it
02:49:30chrisjjBilgus_ph I've opened it in the Creative ZEN simulator and source editor.
02:49:51 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:50:48 Quit bluebrother (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:51:11Bilgus_phoh sorry you just need to open the zip file this will be on your pc not on a device. sorry
02:51:17chrisjjAnd I've opened the .bmp
02:51:28chrisjjOK, I've opened the ZIP.
02:51:42Bilgus_phok so there are 3 images in that png
02:52:17 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother)
02:52:38Bilgus_phnow in note pad in WPS/eden.wps
02:53:02chrisjj%?if(%pv, <=, -81)<%xd(Cb)|%?if(%pv, >=, 6)<%xd(Cc)|%pv(0, 0, 16, 9, volume9px.bmp)>>
02:53:16Bilgus_phat the top %xl(C,volume9px.bmp,0,0,3)
02:53:37Bilgus_phthis loads the image the 3 specifies how many states
02:54:03Bilgus_phand then the part you pasted does the actual disp
02:54:46Bilgus_ph%pv <-81 says display the min (part b of the image)
02:55:26Bilgus_phthe or %pv>6 display max (part c)
02:57:06Bilgus_phand the last part says else %pv(0,0,16,9, volume9px.bmp) that says display a percentage of the image based on %pv
02:57:31Bilgus_phdo note that the bar part is at the top of the image
02:57:42 Join Senji [0] (~Senji@
02:58:01chrisjjOK. Where's the source of this info? I don't see it in .
02:58:27Bilgus_phwellllll there are several different pages covering themes
03:00:37chrisjjAh, I see it. "%XX(x, y, width, height, filename, [options])"
03:01:12Bilgus_phthere is a lot of info missing from that btw there are options that don't work together it will be a trial and error kinda thing tbh
03:01:25chrisjjTell you want I don't see though. Eden's Volume indicator on the Creative ZEN simulator!
03:02:04 Join JanC_ [0] (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC)
03:02:29Bilgus_phoh I don't know if that theme even works on the actual target it was just the first I saw that looked like it used this method
03:02:52chrisjjAh, right.
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03:03:52chrisjjDo you know any working theme using this new method?
03:05:07Bilgus_phnot off the top of my head
03:05:33Bilgus_phits not really a new method just probably newer than cabbie
03:06:21chrisjjI'm wondering whether the new method has reached production yet. The daily manual doesn't cover it: . No filename.
03:06:25 Quit Senji (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
03:07:02Bilgus_phrest assure it has
03:07:34chrisjjYou've seen it working?
03:07:46Bilgus_phI played with it on my theme but ended up going with the bog standard
03:08:35Bilgus_phyou can also use bar tags to display a bar
03:08:42chrisjjDid you get it working on a particular port?
03:08:51Bilgus_phwithout specifying an image
03:09:09Bilgus_phI messed with it on the sansa clip+
03:09:38Bilgus_phit works you just need to be aware some of those options do not play well together
03:10:26chrisjjOK, thanks. I'll look out for a theme that has it working, and start from there. Thanks.
03:10:32Bilgus_ph%V(111,47,16,9,0) %?if(%pv, <=, -81)<%xd(Cb)|%?if(%pv, >=, 6)<%xd(Cc)|%pv(0, 0, 16, 9, volume9px.bmp)>>
03:11:15Bilgus_phthat %v is defining a viewport %v(x,y,w,H
03:16:45chrisjjThansk, but those %V lines aren't working for me. I've tried it in Eden on Creative ZEN simulator. The indicator does not appear.
03:19:54Bilgus_phthis one uses it as well
03:23:00Bilgus_phunfortunately I am not near my pc atm I can look into it later on if you'll be around, %v are viewports and they for sure work
03:26:20Bilgus_phPersonally I'd try on the actual device to be sure
03:31:31chrisjjThanks. Trying...
03:35:19chrisjjSeems defunct here.
03:37:36chrisjjThat was on the Creative ZEN simulator. On the device, I see the same fail.
03:37:52chrisjjPerhaps themes are just not transportable between devices?
03:42:08Bilgus_phnot completely sure I think they are
03:42:40Bilgus_phin that last pic that is the failsafe theme
03:42:55Bilgus_phso something didn't 3work in that last theme
03:43:35Bilgus_phill check it in a bit and paste bin something for you to try
03:43:51 Quit Bilgus_ph (Quit: Page closed)
03:44:02chrisjjThanks. Gotta go to bed now.
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04:31:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:44:02Bilguschrisjj:ok back did you figure anything out
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05:11:39MrBusiness2TorC, how are you able to format a 64GB microSD card using the FAT32 filesystem? I thought that one of the limitations of FAT32 is that it can only address 32GB of space. Maybe I'm mistaken though? Or maybe I'm just using the wrong partitioning software.
05:20:17TorCMrBusiness2: I just used gparted. Most anything /should/ be able to do it. The exfat is specified by the uSD standard as what new cards should be formatted as, and IIRC some format utilities enforce redoing it that way in code.
05:23:14TorCPer wiki, fat32 can address up to 2TB with a 512 sector size, and up to 16TB if one increases the sector size to 4kB.
06:03:15Bilguschrisjj: Here you Go << unzip into your WPS directory
06:04:09Bilgusturns out I had to weak it a bit to make it work using a single image and then using a bmpstrip for the empty/max states
06:08:28TorCMrBusiness2: I just realized I misspoke. exfat is specified by the SD (not uSD) standard for cards >=64GB (actually, I think technically >32GB, but it works out the same in practice).
06:15:08 Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
06:15:30MrBusiness2So wait, what now
06:15:34 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
06:16:33Bilgusspecified by The SD standard not micro SD standard
06:16:45MrBusiness2But I mean
06:16:50Bilgusfor cards bigger than 32 GB
06:16:55MrBusiness2he's saying that's the exFat standard
06:17:14MrBusiness2and exFat will do 128GB easily.
06:17:19MrBusiness2That's not news.
06:17:55MrBusiness2So I guess my takeaway should be that I need 32GB SD cards formatted to FAT32 for my Sansa Clip Zip then, yes?
06:19:06MrBusiness2I hope some future Rockbox version offers PAE and exFAT support for that device so I can just cram all my music onto one card and forget about it.
06:20:17BilgusThat should allow you to format it as fat 32 and barring that
06:20:29MrBusiness2Guess I could man up and try to add that myself, but I imagine I'd have to get datasheets for the Sansa Clip Zip's microprocessor, a copy of the exFAT standard, a firm understanding of PAE, and the ability to write device drivers.
06:20:39Bilgusthe 32 Gb limit is imposed by windows
06:21:14MrBusiness2Yeah, I feel as though I've put FAT32 partitions onto SD cards larger than that before
06:21:20MrBusiness2but I may have also bricked them in the process
06:21:35MrBusiness2and I sort of don't get how they could exceed the limit
06:22:07MrBusiness2I mean, the paging table, theoretically, only supports 32GB unless they found some way of inserting a janky form of PAE into FAT32
06:23:01Bilgusand next time you brick a SD card that RMprepusb and this >
06:23:07Bilgusshould fix it
06:23:10Galoiswhat? I'm pretty sure FAT32 formatted partitions can be larger than 32GB
06:23:25Bilgussure in linux
06:23:28MrBusiness2I've been wrong before
06:23:48Galoisdoes rockbox not support such partitions?
06:23:52MrBusiness2and yeah, it was in GParted that I made > 32GB FAT32 partitions in the past
06:24:42BilgusThe maximum disk size is approximately 8 terabytes when you take into account the following variables: The maximum possible number of clusters on a FAT32 volume is 268,435,445, and there is a maximum of 32 KB per cluster, along with the space required for the file allocation table (FAT). You cannot decrease the cluster size on a FAT32 volume so that the size of the FAT is larger than 16 megabytes (MB) minus 64 KB. You cannot format
06:25:25BilgusYou cannot format a volume larger than 32 gigabytes (GB) in size using the FAT32 file system during the Windows XP installation process. Windows XP can mount and support FAT32 volumes larger than 32 GB (subject to the other limits), but you cannot create a FAT32 volume larger than 32 GB by using the Format tool during Setup. You cannot create a file larger than (2^32)-1 bytes (this is one byte less than 4 GB) on a FAT32 partition.
06:25:57Bilgusno AFAIK rockbox supports 128 gb cards
06:27:14Bilgusbut 64gb is a pain to build a database in I can't begin to imagine double that
06:28:41MrBusiness2Yeah, my Rockbox had a kernel panic last time I tried a database function
06:28:46MrBusiness2granted no card was present
06:29:35BilgusI have on ocassion tried to build the database with no card inserted It just sat there forever no Panic though
06:31:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:31:24MrBusiness2The panic was quite spectacular
06:31:50MrBusiness2It flashed some message about memory addresses and opcodes, and I do mean flash, because the screen started flashing.
06:32:12MrBusiness2Had to hold the center button and power button down for what seemed about 10 seconds to get it to shut the hell down
06:32:31MrBusiness2Rebooted fine
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06:33:44MrBusiness2I wonder if any of my music files violate the 4GB limit. I severely doubt it, but there is one possible candidate
06:34:12MrBusiness2which is my 4 part reading of Naked Lunch as narrated by the late William S. Burroughs himself.
06:34:17MrBusiness2Great for road trips
06:34:21Bilgusmaybe a movie or some really long wav file
06:34:53MrBusiness2It could be a 320kbps, non VBR mp3
06:34:58MrBusiness2or rather, four of them
06:35:10MrBusiness2each of relatively substantial length
06:35:24MrBusiness2ah, hell, I can probably look it up
06:35:42MrBusiness2Anyway, I do have a fresh 64GB Lexar card handy, so I guess I'll try this tool out
06:35:49MrBusiness2After I fulfill my other obligations for the evening
06:36:00MrBusiness2But before that, a break
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07:11:16TorCBilgus: MrBusiness2: IIRC, there are people using 256GB cards on RB - though I can't vouch for the clip series specifically, I'm not aware of any technical limitation that should prevent it. I'm sure there are folk with 256GB+ volumes on other players.
07:12:30MrBusiness2I have a slightly larger but older SanDisk that might be RockBox compatible. Maybe it can do it. I'll have to install RockBox on it first to find out
07:12:42MrBusiness2and it uses some horrible proprietary charger
07:12:49TorCIt looks like Bilgus took the long explanation for what I apparently said unclearly: Once you buy it, any card is just a bag for bits. How you format it, and why, is your business.
07:13:07TorCThough I'd forgotten about the windows imposed restriction on formatting.
07:13:34MrBusiness2I wonder if that program you linked can fix my 256GB USB3 stick that crapped out on me
07:13:47TorCProbably because it's never mattered to me since 64GB+ became reasonably common.
07:14:52TorCMaybe. Can't hurt to try if you've got a lousy paperweight otherwise that isn't worth expensive recovery on. Though I probably wouldn't trust it again anyway.
07:14:54MrBusiness2Do you even use Windows?
07:15:19TorCWhich is why it never mattered. I gave up on Windows about the time Vista came out.
07:15:27MrBusiness2I was a GNU/Linux guy for several years, prior to an incident I don't care to discuss at any length.
07:15:49MrBusiness2What's your distro?
07:16:20MrBusiness2I was a Ubuntu guy until the unspeakable thing happened, and I've never settled on a new distro since then.
07:16:30TorCInstalled Ubuntu as dual boot, but due to a bug I didn't understand how to work around I reinstalled Windows at the same time and never got it properly working again. Ran gNewSense for a while, these days I'm running Debian.
07:17:14TorCIf we continue this, we should probably head over to #rockbox-community
07:17:21MrBusiness2I tried gNewSense. Couldn't precisely tell what it was aiming for, outside of being a Libre distro
07:17:36MrBusiness2I'm down
07:17:53TorCThat's pretty much it.
07:18:06MrBusiness2Okay then
07:18:09MrBusiness2no need
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09:30:42dongsI'm a windows 10 guy
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13:43:13chrisjjBilgus: re cabbiev2 edited, got it. That works on Creative ZEN simulator and device. The volume indicator scale now uses each pixel. Thanks.
13:48:24 Join MikeKennelly [0] (49f80b32@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
13:48:41MikeKennellyhey everyone. can someone add me to SonyNWZE460Port
13:51:48MikeKennellyhey everyone. can someone add me to SonyNWZE460Port #rockbox
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13:53:19pixelmado you mean you want to be able to edit the wiki page?
13:53:31chrisjjAnyone else unable to connect to ??
13:54:33pamauryMikeKennelly: what do you want to edit on this page ?
13:55:01MikeKennellyI just want the image, i can't download the port
13:55:38pamaurythe port is not finished
13:56:19MikeKennellycan you point me to an alternative?
13:56:49pamauryan alternative to what?
13:58:21MikeKennellyis there any other available firmware that will work with the NWZ-E465
13:58:28MikeKennellymy bad
13:58:55pamaurynot yet, currently the port is incomplete, it is tricky to install and sound is not working, be patient
13:59:25MikeKennellyok cool
14:02:10chrisjjAnyone lese finding font 17-ProFont metrics have gone loopy?
14:02:26pamaurychrisjj: forums have problems, be patient, they should be back by themselves
14:19:31Bilguschrisjj wanna do me a favor and test out my selective backlight patch? forums are down it is under feature ideas but here is firmware with the patch
14:20:09wodzpamaury: If you want me something to test on nzw 47x drop me a note
14:21:45pamaurywodz: sure, yesterday I tried the port on the E580 and ran into some unexpected problem, I realized that Sony made changes to its lcd ioctl() and also changed the key mapping. So I'm systematically going through kernel headers to find all possible cases.
14:22:15pamauryI'm also almost done with mknzwboot that should hopefully simply the creation of a bootloader
14:22:19wodzough, sound tedious
14:22:28pamaurywodz: I'm writing scripts ;)
14:27:09pamauryI also learned the hard way that Sony's fb interface returns bullshit data that is not to be trusted
14:27:32chrisjjBilgus: sure. Is there a brief?
14:28:05Bilguson the forums here is the gerrit
14:31:01chrisjjGot it.
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14:31:23Bilgusjust make a copy of your current .rockbox folder and then unzip into your root the .rockbox/lang/english.lang file and .rockbox/rockbox/creative
14:32:00Bilgusas in the original the copy save as a backup
14:32:50Bilgusor if you are way behind on your current version you can unzip the whole thing
14:36:14chrisjjI renamed .rockbox and unzipped to the root.
14:37:40chrisjj"No Backlight on Selected Actions" means No restoration of timed-out backlight upon selected actions" ??
14:39:53chrisjji.e. takes effect after the backlight has been turned off by the idle timer set under Settings, Backlight?
14:40:46chrisjjOK, then it is not working for me.
14:41:24 Quit The_Prospector|2 (Quit: when in doubt, kernel panic)
14:41:33Bilgusyes if it is on and you press keys it resets timeout, don't press keys it turns off and won't turn back on till you press a non filtered key Settings >display > lcd settings > no backlight on selected actions
14:42:25chrisjjOn Settings, NBoSA, I engage Volume. On Now Playing, I wait for backlight to go out. The I press Up (VOLUME UP). Unexpectedly, backlight comes on.
14:42:29chrisjjSame with Skip.
14:42:40chrisjjThis on real device Creative ZEN 2Gb.
14:42:47Bilgushave to set it up first and if you don't have a hold button which I think you do selective softlock is in Settings > system > no softlock on selected actions
14:43:15chrisjjI'm testing just the backlight effect first. I have made no setting change for softlock.
14:43:18Bilgusdid you set it to in in the previous screen?
14:43:44wodzpamaury: what you mean?
14:44:23Bilgusin NBoSA the first screen has on/off then settings, when you do settings it asks you if you want to save them
14:44:47Bilgusclick 'OFF' and it will change to 'ON'
14:45:51pamaurywodz: the framebuffer interface is supposed to returned info about how the framebuffer is setup, like the line length, width, height, etc. But clearly some data in there is wrong.
14:46:06chrisjjBilgus: Ah, got it. Not obvious!
14:47:02Bilgusmaybe I should make it so it sets it to on automatically or move enable to within the settings?
14:48:22chrisjjBetter to follow the existing Rockbox style, I think. One command On, a separate command for Off.
14:48:49wodzpamaury: Ah, that what I thought. Probably copy-paste problem on sony side
14:51:14Bilgusheaded to work post on forums or in here anything you like/dislike/bugs thanks
14:51:44chrisjjAs per e.g. Backlight on Hold. But even better would be to add an indicator of current state. Perhaps an asterisk e.g. 'On *'
14:52:37chrisjjBilgus: OK, will do... when forums come back up :)
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15:35:39comradekinguI have had my clip+ connected charging for about a day. Unplugged from computer now.
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15:36:39comradekinguSays: *PANIC* pc: 30046164 sp:300B8D
15:49:35chrisjjForums still down after two hours, so perhaps the server needs a kick? PS I'm patient :)
16:02:00pamaury_chrisjj: be more patient ;)
16:02:57chrisjjOK, upping the patience setting now... :)
16:04:33chrisjjpamaury: Re the ZEN BSoD, 50 cycles of USB in/out has shown no BSoD. Though has shown some other fails.
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16:05:29pamaury_chrisjj: which other fail?
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16:07:08chrisjj1) On unplug, failure to recognise unplug. 2) On unplug, text garbaged at pixel level in the pop-up and on all subsequent screens, until reboot.
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16:08:33chrisjjRe 2) I'd take a screenshot... if someone could tell me if there was a way of taking a screenshot after USB unplug :)
16:08:58pamaury_1) is a known problem, I never figured out why it happens (although I never tried really since it's not a major issue)
16:09:29pamaury_2) is weird though, sounds like a theme engine bug
16:09:48pamaury_you could take a screenshot on plug after the unplug?
16:09:57chrisjj1) In Flyspray?
16:10:11pamaury_No, I just know it exists
16:10:21pamaury_I think the hardware fails to fire the interrupt on unplug sometimes
16:10:29pamaury_probably needs another workaround
16:10:30chrisjj2) Does theme engine affect the USB screen??
16:11:25pamaury_2) I would need to check (or rather ask someone who knows about it) but theme engine affects pretty much everything I think
16:13:00chrisjjAw. Well, I can say something else probably went wrong first. Because the strip of garbage was sized placed and coloured as if it was a corrupt pop-up of about 30 chars, rather than the normal pop-up "Loading..."
16:14:24pamaury_chrisjj: to which pop-up after you referring to? There is no pop-up on unplug except if you put a new version of the firmware
16:15:11chrisjjI refer to the pop-up I see on every unplug (no firmware update).
16:15:37chrisjjBy pop-up I mean the fleeting overlayed bordered text message.
16:16:45pamaury_ah you are right, I forgot there was one because it usually disappears really quickly
16:17:39pamaury_so you are saying that instead of 'Loading' you see garbage, but still displayed as a pop-up?
16:19:32chrisjjIt may have been instead or in addition to Loading...
16:19:49chrisjjIt was definitely displayed as a pop-up.
16:21:14chrisjjI will file a report, after finishing this BSoD testing.
16:22:03pamaury_chrisjj: I admit I tend not to read flyspray anymore, but feel free to report it there
16:22:15chrisjjAnd if it recurs, I'll try clearing the font cache (if I can find out how) since my hunch is that it got trashed. Nothing but font on screen was trashed.
16:22:31chrisjjWhere's the better place you read?
16:24:06pamaury_well there is a hack for fonts: on usb, the code cannot access fonts (since they are on the storage), so the font code keeps a local cache of most used glyph. If some glyph are not in ram when called, I don't know what happens. It might also be that there is a glyph cache corruption either in ram or on file
16:24:24pamaury_chrisjj: just tell me and hope I won't forget :-p I know this is not really optimal
16:25:04pamaury_I should use the bug tracker
16:25:05chrisjjOK. Perhpas best is for me to file in Flyspray AND tell you :-)
16:25:11pamaury_yes :)
16:27:19chrisjjYour glyph theory doesn't sound llikely to me. Just as L o a d i n g was clearly already in cache, so I'd expect the longer message's glyphs to be... unless that mystery message was in Japanese! :)
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16:41:07chrisjj now up.
16:43:33chrisjjpamaury: re your screendump suggestion, screendump on Creative ZEN is semi-bust. Immediately after the dump, the device hangs in WSoD.
16:45:23pamaurysounds like a bug with screendump, maybe no one fixed it to explain how handle 24-bpp
16:45:44pamauryI'll look into it
16:54:31chrisjjI'll file a report.
16:55:21chrisjjOn the BSoD, your " I traced it back to a hardware bug, that I can reproduce fairly well (it's still random but at least I know what happens).", can you tell me how to reproduce it from the user end?
16:57:09pamaury_There is no easy way to reproduce it as a user, I used some dev tools
17:00:25pamaury_it's basically the same principle as rebooting all the time except that you replace the "boot rockbox" by "perform those register read/write and see if you triggered the hardware bug". I managed to narrow down the sequence to a few read/writes
17:01:33pamaury_I believe the bug is fundamentally "random" though so there no easy way to trigger it with a 100% chance
17:04:15chrisjjThen it seems like my soak test of a few thousand boots is the best way for the boot case.
17:04:37chrisjjAnd manual plug/unplug is the best way for the USB test.
17:16:58chrisjjAnyone, does Seek left and Seek right work on your player? They don't on my Creative ZEN. :(
17:25:35pamauryprobably a key mapping thing
17:30:33chrisjjSo, do they work for other devices?
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17:32:43pamauryI think, I mean I almost never use them but we would know if they were broken. Most likely I forgot to map seek/rewing on the zen
17:33:08Bilgus_phCHRISJJ: did seek not work before you installed nBosA ALSO does it work in the sim Zen?
17:34:19chrisjjpamaury: thanks. I'll check the .c.
17:34:33pamaury_I least I know it works on the ZEN X-Fi
17:34:40chrisjjBilgus_ph: Will check.
17:35:27chrisjjBTW, I see no sim for your nBosA.
17:36:42pamaury_chrisjj: just had a quick look at keymap-zen.c and there is this line:
17:36:42pamaury_but it looks somewhat suspicious, I think it should be
17:36:42DBUGEnqueued KICK pamaury_
17:38:27Bilgus_phPAMAURY the button lookup should allow button_none there it looks for the prebutton|button_none iirc
17:39:37pamaury_I don't understand what you just said
17:40:20Bilgus_phCHRISJJ there is no sim with nBosa but if seek works on the sim then it points to nbosa or your device
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18:01:42Bilgus_phPAMAURY in action.c do_button_lookup or something along those lines it has button,prebutton which is what you just posted.. i'm pretty sure it allows you to have button_none as the prebutton and will allow any prebutton in that case
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18:37:41pamauryBilgus: the question is not whether BUTTON_NONE is allowed. I'm just saying it's wrong in this case
18:40:49pamaurychrisjj: did you try the keymap fix I suggested?
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18:44:11chrisjjNo. I don't have a RB build setup.
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19:02:32 Join Link8 [0] (~me@
19:05:56Link8i have a question
19:06:12Link8i use an aux cable to listen to music with my ipod
19:06:27Link8the left speaker has no sound all of a sudden
19:06:34Link8i tried changing the aux cables
19:06:38Link8still the same effect
19:06:53Link8with earplugs in the ipod both earplugs work so it isnt the ipod
19:07:01Link8if i play a cd in the car both speakers work
19:07:10Link8just not thorugh the aux cable anymore now
19:07:12Link8what can it be?
19:07:34 Join scorche|sh [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
19:08:13pamauryLink8: did you check wit the OF ? could be bad jack
19:08:58Link8maybe the jack of the car stereo is messed up or something
19:09:03Link8whats OF
19:11:54pamauryoriginal firmware, apple firmware
19:12:34pamaurybut I suspect bad jack or bad connection in your car stereo
19:12:45Link8from the car stero right
19:12:49Link8its not the fw
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21:09:46pamaury_bluebrother: do I need to do something special to have c++ files in mk*boot ?
21:09:47lahoalhi there
21:10:10pamaury_it fails with a weird error
21:11:51lahoalhey guys just a quick question, related to the ipod 7th gen (MC293) and its database
21:12:14pamaury_lahoal: ask and someone will answer if he knows the answer
21:12:15lahoalI know on the stock fw the database stays on the ram which is 64mb
21:12:33lahoaland it kinda limits the amount of tracks you can have in it
21:12:51lahoal(thinking about replacing the hdd to a raid of microsds)
21:12:59lahoalso how does that work on rockbox :O
21:14:12lahoalpamaury_: tried to lurk on manuals and stuff but couldn't get an answer, maybe I'm just searching wrong
21:14:15pamaury_the database on rockbox has virtually no limit (it's on the disk) as far as I know
21:14:38pamaury_[Saint]: do you concur?
21:14:43 Nick pamaury_ is now known as pamaury (~pamaury@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
21:15:12lahoalI saw a bug reported related to that, the device was refreshing it way to often causing the stock hdd to over-work.
21:15:31lahoalif I have a GIANT database, say, dunno 200.000 tracks
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21:15:49lahoalwhich would be kinda 256mb size
21:16:04lahoalwouldn't the fw be working kinda all the time, reading it over and over?
21:16:33lahoalI just bought the replacement parts on ebay and I'm sure gonna try it anyway, but I wanted to have a head start on how it would work :P
21:16:34pamauryI think we have a recent problem that the database is now entirely on disk (the ram optimization was disabled), making it seek the disk much more than before
21:17:18lahoalon regular (big) databases you can use Indexes to lighten up certain queries,
21:17:20pamaurybut otherwise the database is refreshed in the background. Of course scanning tat many tracks will take some time
21:17:38lahoalyeah totally
21:18:36pamauryI guess it doesn't hurt to try it anyway
21:18:42lahoalsure ;p
21:27:59lahoalhey and how stable is it actually?
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21:29:19pamauryI don't know, I don't have the ipod 7th
21:29:28pamauryyou'll have to wait until someone answers that
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21:34:40lahoalsure :)
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21:42:25lahoalpamaury: on the site there's logs of this chat through forever
21:42:35lahoalI'm searching on there if anyone has talked about databases
21:42:40lahoalthere's interesting info
21:43:19gevaertsThe first thing you'll learn is that virtually no dev cares about the database :)
21:43:39pamauryyeah I don't think any of us dev really use the database :)
21:43:52pamauryMaybe because we know how it works, kinda
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21:57:11pamaurydamn, libtools.make only knows about C and not C++, it's going to be tricky to change that
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22:01:58lahoalalright guys, heading off
22:02:05lahoalbye ~ 
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22:29:35Bilguspamaury: what I was getting at earlier was in do_button_check −−> if (items[i].button_code == button) { if ((items[i].pre_button_code == BUTTON_NONE) || (items[i].pre_button_code == last_button)) <−− meaning if pre button is button_none It allows any pre button as long as button is right
22:29:55pamauryBilgus: and that's why it's wrong
22:30:10pamauryyou want to trigger the action *only* when prebutton is BUTTON_RIGHT
22:30:30pamauryotherwise the seek action is trigger on every repeat (since BUTTON_RIGHT|BUTTON_REPEAT matches BUTTON_NONE)
22:30:47pamauryso basically you are constantly re-asking to seek, which I am not sure the code was designed to handle
22:31:16Bilgusoh ok I see what you are getting at
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22:31:36pamaurythe code works the other way around: on BUTTON_RIGHT you do nothing, then on the next tick, either you get RIGHT|REL -> skip, or RIGHT|REPEAT -> seek, and then if you seek, on REL you stop seek
22:32:17Bilgusalthough I think a bunch of other keymaps are the same
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22:33:23BilgusI'm pretty sure you will break seek if you do that tbh
22:34:03Bilgusstop seek looks for a button|rel, button|rep and
22:34:29BilgusI think seek works by setting each run through
22:34:29pamaurystop seek requires repeat before
22:35:22BilgusButton, Prebutton like the key map
22:35:42Bilgusidk ill test and brb
22:35:55pamauryAnyway, I'm just saying the answer is not obvious, it depends on how seeking is implemented, something which I don't want to know :-p
22:36:16pamaurymost probably looking at the other keymaps is the simplest solution
22:37:32 Quit PurlingNayuki (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
22:37:58pamaurybluebrother: I'm puzzled between adding c++ support to libtooks.make (seems annoying) and simply finding an implementation of des in C
22:38:58BilgusI just checked 20+ and all had Button_none as PREBUTTON
22:39:29BilgusI canged it to have button_right as the pre in fuze+ and it breaks seek
22:39:42Bilgusseeks for a moment then immediately stops seek
22:39:51pamaurythen seek must rely on receiving events every tick
22:40:07pamaurywhich is weird because then stopseek looks useless
22:40:55Bilgusbut perhaps in a different context it is needed
22:42:21BilgusFMS doesn't seem to care that the pre was changed, wonder if chrisjj has a wonky fwd button
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22:43:26pamauryyeah, maybe it was a problem with the button or the button driver
22:43:36pamaurybut I guess he would have noticed if left/right didn't work
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23:00:14chrisjj"wonder if chrisjj has a wonky fwd button" Sorry, my report was inaccurate/unclear
23:05:13Bilgusyou said seek left doesn't work correct?
23:05:21Bilgussorry seek right
23:07:25chrisjjYes, I did and that is correct.
23:08:54Bilgusok so has that always been the case on your player or only since you installed the selective backlight firmware?
23:08:55chrisjjFor truth: On DEVICE, left works generally, but has no effect for Seek Left. Right works generally inc. for Seek Right.
23:09:40chrisjjThat's for unit P with NBoSA.
23:10:13Bilgusoh ok so it won't rewind then ok so put your back up back on device and does it still not rewind
23:10:59chrisjjOn DEVICE unit T without NBoSA, left works inc. for Seek Left
23:11:30chrisjjAnd FWIW, on SIMULATOR, Left works inc. for Seek Left.
23:11:36Bilgusok so before you put on nBoSA dis seek left work on unit P?
23:11:51chrisjjNow ininstalling NBoSA for test...
23:12:48Bilgustbh sel backlight doesn't intercept any key presses it only reads them selective softlock is the one that would block a keypress
23:13:08 Quit prg318 (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
23:14:30chrisjjNo change. I.e. On device unit P now without NBoSA , left works generally, but has no effect for Seek Left. Very odd. I will diff the two installations.
23:15:54chrisjjJust spotted: "[22:05] <Bilgus> you said seek left doesn't work correct? [22:05] <Bilgus> sorry seek right [22:07] <chrisjj> Yes, I did and that is correct." FTR I'm saying what doesn't work is Seek Left. Seek Right works.
23:17:35 Join prg318 [0] (~prg318@deadcodersociety/prg318)
23:17:39BilgusI'm going to say it is probably an issue with the device
23:19:04Bilgussave your backup .rockbox folder and put a fresh install on ie delete the rockbox folder and put on the latest DEV install
23:27:40 Join amayer [0] (
23:29:02 Quit ender` (Quit: Eighty percent of all people consider themselves to be above-average drivers.)
23:29:35chrisjjMystery solved. It's an issue with the device. :) A wonky button which amazingly registers a down event but not a sustained down state, unless I press it off-centre.
23:29:42chrisjjSorry for the false alarm.
23:32:05chrisjjpamaury: I found a longer pop-up message on USB unplug, which could have been the one I saw corrupted: "Error accessing playlist control file"
23:32:53pamaurythis one is fairly common, but it should not corrupt anything
23:41:20chrisjjSure, but it addresses your "There is no pop-up on unplug except if you put a new version of the firmware". This could be the pop-up I saw, corrupted. What I see on a new version of the firmware is not what I'd call a pop-up. It is a new screenful (on ZEN). What do you mean exactly by "pop-up"?
23:42:30pamaurythe playlist access error message is a pop-up: it's displayed in a gray box at the center of the screen
23:46:53chrisjjOK, then I think we agree your "There is no pop-up [additional to Loading...] on unplug except if you put a new version of the firmware" is incorrect. No problem. And we don't know anything more about that corruption. In 20 more test cycles, I found no repeat.
23:52:13pamauryThis pop-up is supposed to be really rare
23:52:48 Quit edhelas (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:52:49chrisjj"Error accessing playlist control file" isn't rare here on ZEN.
23:52:51pamauryand unrelated to corruption, I can see it once in a while on all players, it's a race condition no-one bothered to fix
23:54:40pamauryand after this error, you said every piece of text is corrupted until reboot?
23:56:45__builtinhow do I make all clients in the build cluster auto-update?
23:57:25chrisjjpamaury: yes. Though I didn't try changing theme or font.
23:58:06pamaurychrisjj: which theme are you using?
23:58:16pamaury__builtin: they update the script automatically I think, assuming you pushed it to the repo
23:58:34chrisjjBTW, back on v131119 I got "Error accessing playlist control file" −− fixed by upgrading to 131121.

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