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#rockbox log for 2016-12-20

00:00:36 Quit Link7 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
00:06:56 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: "It's now safe to turn off your computer.")
00:18:27 Quit ender` (Quit: Puritanism - the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy. — Henry Mencken)
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00:33:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:52:25 Part robertd1
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01:10:26 Quit PurlingNayuki (Quit: PurlingNayuki)
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01:36:36 Quit scorche|sh (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
01:55:13chrisjjIn Files, how do I send just the selected file to the emptied current playlist? Select sends all the files in the folder.
01:56:44__builtinlong click -> Current Playlist
01:56:51__builtinI think
02:06:49chrisjjThat offers the Current Playlist menu containing Insert, Queue etc. but not anything that plays just the selected file AFAICS.
02:13:14chrisjjAnyone with a non-Creative non-Apple player care to try a test track for me?
02:16:32chrisjjSimply play this file chrisjj%20test.wav?dl=0"> and record what happens, inc. any crash info.
02:18:01chrisjjOops, please instead use the download version of that link chrisjj%20test.wav?dl=1"> .
02:25:38Bilgusok I put it on my clip+ it loaded
02:26:06BilgusUnknown artist then promptly went to the next track
02:26:25Bilgusso I put it on repeat just stiing here at 0
02:27:30Bilgusoh sorry was paused it just went on to next song and won't let me go back to it
02:29:57 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.)
02:33:32TorCBilgus: I can confirm the issue with the selBL settings not taking (but saving) when exiting the settings tree using the home button.
02:33:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:38:11TorCSpecifically, it will save the settings, but fail to take when exiting from the selBL first page (after using left to save the settings themselves) using the home button.
02:38:16TorCThis on my Zip.
02:38:44TorCIf I use left once more to get out of the selBL first settings page, then they take.
02:39:18chrisjjBilgus: Thanks. Is that 3.13?
02:40:45TorCA second round of going into the menu and verifying the settings are saved will still fail to take if the home button is again used from the selBL main menu. Using left then to get back to the LCD settings before using the home button does get the settings to take.
02:41:06TorCEven though nothing actually changed the second round.
02:41:52TorCCan you move the update settings from when exiting selBL settings to exiting action select?
03:04:00[Saint]Why would anyone in their right mind be using 3.13?
03:04:06[Saint]hint: don't
03:09:21chrisjjBecause its the latest stable version, says
03:10:57*user890104 wonders if rockbox 4.0 is coming soon
03:14:19*chrisjj wonders if the fact the last release was over 3 years back suggests 4.0 will be around 2067.
03:19:16*user890104 hopes not
03:21:18user890104seriously, what's holding back the next release? feature freezes have been done successfully in the past, calls for testers have been sent, developers know what's a bugfix and what's not
03:22:35user890104if there aren't testers for particular target, it could be marked as "untested" or demoted to unstable for example
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03:28:44Bilgus_phChrisjj not 3.13 THE LATEST dev why look for bugs in a depreciated source???
03:30:06Bilgus_phTORC i could probably have it apply on selection as well
03:30:53Bilgus_phEither that or have it flash canceled if you use the home button
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03:33:27SaratogaI'm OK with a release whenever
03:34:22chrisjjBilgus_ph: Thanks. BTW, 3.13 is not deprecated. Its the current version for users.
03:34:55SaratogaIt's depreciated in that we don't work on it
03:36:03SaratogaAlthough figuring out that you shouldn't be running it is harder than it should be
03:37:22chrisjjNo idea why you think I shouldn't be running it. It is the official current release offered to users.
03:39:11 Join Bilgus_ph [0] (~Bilgus_ph@
03:41:00Bilgus_phOK well congrats I cannot figure out if you are obtuse or just intentionally being an ass.
03:43:22 Quit Bilgus_ph (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:44:36SaratogaObtuse obviously
03:46:52chrisjjI got a report from a user to whom I recommend RB that it crashed for him. No surprise he was using the current official release 3.13.
03:47:56chrisjjSoory you seem to think anyone running the latest official release is intentionally being an ass.
03:48:11chrisjjI've reproduced the crash on 3.13 and the latest archived dev build. Also on two simulators.
03:48:55chrisjjReported at, with your contribution. Thanks.
03:53:34[Saint]chrisjj: 'stable' only means exactly what it says it does on the main page.
03:53:43[Saint]It does not literally mean stable.
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03:54:02[Saint]In terms of actual stability, git head/development version has the release licked.
03:55:05[Saint]Unless there's some setting or feature that you depend on that has been deprecated or regressed in the development build you have absolutely no business running the release builds.
03:56:02[Saint]user890104: manpower
03:57:30[Saint]chrisjj: what metric are you using to derive that we don't offer the development build up to users?
03:57:44chrisjj"'stable' only means exactly what it says it does on the main page." What I see is "Rockbox runs well on these players, has a complete manual and is supported by the installer:"
03:58:04[Saint]chrisjj: exactly. and none of that says "is stable" does it?
03:58:23chrisjjIs any dev build 'stable' by that definition??
03:59:09[Saint]More so in so far as they have almost four years worth of bug fixes and enhancements you're chosing not to run.
03:59:54chrisjjCan't imagine what makes you think I'm not running a dev build. I run quite a few different builds.
04:00:17[Saint]The fact that there may or may not be reproducible bugs in 3.13 is entirely non-interesting. If you can reproduce them in a development build however...
04:01:23[Saint]OK then. If we're gonna go that way...I can't imagine what would make you think anyone cared in the slightest that there are issues on a build that's the better part of four years behing git head?
04:01:40chrisjjIf you really think people "have absolutely no business running the release builds" then you ought to take it up with source of the official message to users rather than complaint to users such as myself.
04:02:19Bilgusnope its not anyone running 3.13 just you since you have been told several times
04:03:08[Saint]There's no complaint being made. Just a clear statement. If you have issues, update.
04:03:08[Saint]We figure that by this point anyone interested in updating will have, anyone who needed to do so because it fixed an issue, will have...and those running the release not caring about it because they have absolutely no issues...won't.
04:03:09Bilgus'<[Saint]> The fact that there may or may not be reproducible bugs in 3.13 is entirely non-interesting. If you can reproduce them in a development build however...'
04:04:38chrisjjAnd before you submit that complaint, perhaps consider that the official line on Dev Builds is "Since these builds are generated from actively developed source, at times they may be buggy or even unusable. For a stable build, download the latest stable release."
04:05:10[Saint]In a perfect would I would like to see the concept of releases just dropped entirely and just have the last 10 builds in a rotating list.
04:05:29chrisjj"If you can reproduce them in a development build however...'" Seems you didn't read the report.
04:05:35 Quit Saratoga (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
04:05:35[Saint]chrisjj: you might also want to consider the time that message was written.
04:06:13chrisjj"If you have issues, update." I updated. This issue remains.
04:06:40[Saint]Sweet. Now either fix it yourself or wait sometime between now and never for someone else to, patiently.
04:08:00chrisjj"In a perfect would I would like to see the concept of releases just dropped entirely" So why do you suppose RB still operates under a latest stable release policy?
04:09:17chrisjj"you might also want to consider the time that message was written." Page was last modified Oct 24 2016.
04:15:16user890104[Saint]: IIRC Alex Parker (AlexP) schedules and announces releases, any idea if he still visits this channel?
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04:33:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:07:01chrisjj__builtin "long click -> Current Playlist [00:56]" Manual says but it doesn't work. It fails to clear the current tracks.
05:07:58chrisjjSeems like a bug to me. Else someone failed to update the manaul upon changing behaviour for some reason.
05:09:06chrisjjI'll ask in forums... oh no I won't. Forums down again.
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07:17:57Bilgushey johnb2: I"ll have a build for you to try tomorrow that will fix the apply settings you notice any other issues?
07:22:38johnb2No, no other problems. Maybe after doing stuff in Settings, I left that menu by using the Play key which on Fuze is the equivalent to the Home in clip+ : with two clicks you can return to WPS. I will check it in more detail today.
07:23:44johnb2Like TorC stated (just now read the logs).
07:26:49BilgusOnce it finishes uploading new firmware will be in the same folder
07:28:23Bilgus like 20 mins or so
07:29:38johnb2Ok, will then first test it with clip+ on the commute, Fuze in 12h or so.
07:29:57Bilgusthis should fix that issue, notify you of button lock quicker, and have slightly less overhead while the bl is on
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08:35:08 Join fling [0] (~fling@fsf/member/fling)
08:35:45flingI just tried to update firmware on iriver T30 and the app said everything is uploaded and I should turn it off.
08:36:26flingNow every time I turn on the player I see this on the screen for few seconds and then it turns off: Firmware Upgrade DO NOT TOUCH DURING UPGRADE
08:36:36flingI tried to replace the battery.
08:40:10TorCIf it's really the battery, you might have luck using a USB power supply to keep it going. If it's something else, you'll need someone else to help you.
08:40:16TorCfling: ^
08:41:18TorCBilgus: Just tried the latest version. The settings menu behaviour now acts in a way that seems natural to me, with no unexpected failure to take when it seems like it should.
08:41:28flingIt is not charging from usb because alcaline battery type selected in the settings
08:41:49flingBut I used the new battery and it still stuck!
08:42:49TorCfling: No need for it to charge for the USB power to help. That's just plugging it into the wall in case the batteries were failing to provide enough power. Sounds like you may have an issue you need someone who knows the player to help with, though.
08:43:34flingOk I will leave it usb plugged for another hour
08:45:23TorCBilgus: If you want to have a cancel actions change, you could use the power button. That would make sense according to typical usage - at least if you ask me. I don't claim to be an authoritative reference, though.
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12:05:48ChristWI need a little hand holding here... I put "#define LOGF_ENABLE" into apps/buffering.c (because rockbox crashes within that file). I would like to have the system write the file to disk (because I can't view from a crashed app...), but I can;t find where to #define the ROCKBOX_HAS_LOGF to enable that from the debug menu. I looked in thje wiki but can't find pointers there.
12:07:45gevaertsChristW: when running configure, pick A for advanced, then L for logf, then enter again to finish picking the advanced options
12:09:12 Quit olejorgenb (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
12:10:20ChristWgevaerts: (buiding...)
12:15:49ChristWgevaerts: Ok, I did find the entries to show and dump the log file in the debug menu now!
12:16:33ChristWDoes it dump only once, or does it keep dumping when an entry is written to memory using the Logf() functions?
12:19:39gevaertsIt dumps once
12:19:47gevaerts(I think. It's been a while)
12:19:59ChristWNot useful for me.
12:20:12ChristW(loking at the code, I think so too...)
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12:25:01ChristWAny way to get it via the USB port, while logging?
12:25:09gevaertsThere's code somewhere that dumps continuously. Not sure if that's been integrated
12:25:28gevaertsAnd yes, there's code for USB dump somewhere as well, with the same uncertainty
12:25:39ChristW:-) WIP...
12:28:51gevaertsWhich player are you looking at?
12:30:00ChristWiPod classic
12:30:45ChristWThat patch hasn't made it, yet, I think?
12:30:58gevaertsIt hasn't
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12:31:37ChristWiPod classic isn't listed in the PP-chipset page, but it's worth a try...
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12:33:59gevaertsThat PP is mainly because PP was the first chipset we got working USB on back in the day
12:34:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:41:17ChristWRe-making stuff etc...
12:42:12ChristWZ80-stuff... my first processor that I programmed Basic and assembly on.
12:52:01ChristWOk, I can enable logf-via-usb from the debug menu, but no /dev/ttyUSB ports show up :-(
12:52:39ChristWI also tried this from my host OS (development is in a VM..), but no luck there, either.
12:53:23ChristWlsusb finds an Apple, Inc. iPod classic. dmesg finds lots of stuff as well.
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13:01:24ChristWPerhaps 'Speed: Top' has something to do with it?
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13:25:56chrisjj"If you want to have a cancel actions change, you could use the power button. That would make sense according to typical usage"
13:33:17Bilguspersonally I find the cancel changes stuff to be kinda pointless with anything with less than 10 settings
13:33:58BilgusI can see it on the sound stuff EQ bass etc
13:34:36Bilgusbut cancel on a yes no thats a waste of resources
13:34:56chrisjjWould it make sense really? iPod doesn't have a power button, and ZEN is awkward to use.
13:36:23Bilguswell some players have a way to cancel and AFAICT some don't but I might put it on the mask select part since I removed the save prompt
13:37:16Bilgusmaybe since i'm using the default bool prompt it'll do it automagic
13:37:44chrisjjNo players have no way to cancel.
13:38:56Bilgusyeah the yes/no does it so I think the button selection should as well
13:39:26BilgusI'll add that tonight
13:49:43 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
14:09:52chrisjjBilgus: Why not make your setting change cancel work as do the regular Sound Settings, Playback Settings etc.?
14:10:54chrisjjTo commit the selected value, press Select. To leave the menu without comitting the selected value i.e. to cancel, press Left.
14:34:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:37:14chrisjjHere's the results on Sansa Clip+
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15:56:48chrisjjAnyone else just get dropped from IRC by freenode unable to connect to the server?
15:58:09chrisjjAnd forums are down.
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16:38:58chrisjjI'd love someone to tell me how to empty the current playlist!
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17:12:18pamaurychrisjj: stop audio? or just select any file to replace the current playlist with one file?
17:22:19chrisjjI want to just empty the list. Naturally that will stop play.
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17:27:17pamaurychrisjj: then why don't just stop audio ?
17:28:30chrisjj"Stop audio" meaning press Play to stop play?? That doesn't empty the current playlist.
17:37:11chrisjjI think actually there is no command to empty the current playlist.
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17:38:00chrisjjI've searched the three different menus named Playlist and the one or more named Current Playlist, and I see no such command.
17:39:05pamaurychrisjj: long press play
17:39:42pamauryit's not pause, it's complete stop, but I'm not sure it clears the playlist, although I don't see the use of that "feature"
17:41:19chrisjjNo, that doesn't do it here (iPod sim). It stops and jumps to Files
17:42:46chrisjjClear Current Playlist is very common on players inc. DAPs e.g. ZEN, and desktop software e.g. MediaMonkey.
17:43:43chrisjjThe use is to get ready for creating a playlist by adding tracks −− on RB, File Insert.
17:45:24pamaurychrisjj: then take the first file of the new playlist, and press play, it clears the playlist and adds one file
17:45:33pamauryrockbox is not a playlist manager, it's a music *player*
17:45:42chrisjjYes, I'm aware of the workaround.
17:48:21chrisjj"rockbox is not a playlist manager, it's a music *player*" Well, different people call it different things.
17:50:58chrisjjEither way, RB's player is heavily playlist-based and since it has more playlist commands than many other players, it's rather strange to find it lacking this one basic playlist command that is common on other players, e.g. ZEN, iPod ... which also don't call themselves "playlist managers"
17:55:52chrisjjA workaround /without/ side-effect is Remove each track individually. Though this leaves a slightly confused state. Resume Playback thinks there's no current playlist but , but Files Select think there is:
18:01:31chrisjjpamaury: re the button names idea "a realiable way of getting butto names accross all rockbox"...
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18:03:15chrisjjYour right approach sounds right to me too. Thanks for the offer of help. I'll do a bit more research (e.g. how this would tie up with the manual) before deciding whether such a mod is within my abilities.
18:05:19pamaurychrisjj: for the manual it's almost impossible to do it automatically without a LOT of effort
18:10:46chrisjjpamaury: Understood (I've done far harder before!) which is why I didn't say 'automatic' :)
18:11:54chrisjjThe tie-up I was thinking of would be something a lot easier that would allow manual effort to get an accurate result.
18:13:21chrisjjWhether this is worth it depends on how many more manuals there are in RBs life. But since there are a batch of manuals overdue (the many that have been missing from 3.13 for the last three years), now might be a better time than any to consider it.
18:14:29chrisjjBTW, I should have a ZEN battery_bench.txt for you tonight.
18:14:31chrisjjBye for now
18:14:46chrisjjAnd thanks again for your awesome work on ZEN.
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19:54:41johnb3Bilgus: Thanks for the explanation on "unknown". Unmapped means no action assigned to a key/key combination in the current context. This explains the different behaviour for "south key" on clip+ and fuze. For clip+ noting is assigned, for fuze it's menu.
19:55:37johnb3I believe with the channge TorC proposed for cancel, it is ready for prime time for clip+. I still need to test Fuze.
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19:56:18johnb3Frankly, I confess that only today I understood that SL is completely unrelated to BL.
19:58:58johnb3SL just filters which keys are considered during screen lock. BTW, should "Advanced Screen Lock" be renamed to "Advanced key/keyboard"lock" or "Advanced Lock Screen"?
20:00:15johnb3Keys that pass the SL filter are then considered if BL is active and handled accordingly.
20:01:05johnb3I feel this needs a good explanation for the fine manual. I volunteer to help if this gets commited.
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20:43:23Bilgus_phJohnb2: 'advanced keylock' is probably a better name tbh since it really has nothing to do with the screen I could probably move the backlight code before the screen lock code but this way keeps it out of the custom key maps since it likely will never match any actions there (or the contexts) or if it does would likely be wrong
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20:44:13Bilgus_phAnd any help is appreciated
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21:08:40johnb2Bilgus: FuzeV2 is fine, too, with one exception: "Unknown keys" is selected. When in FMS, short Select turns on BL. According to the manual there is no action mapped to short Select ...
21:09:08johnb2I don't really care, but just to let you know.
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21:11:23johnb2As for help on the manual, I could do something during the coming two (holiday) weeks, but I would need some advice or pointer how to contribute most efficiently. It's about 20 years ago when I last used Latex for my thesis ;-)
21:16:55TorCjohnb2: It's pretty simple to just add a few notes. Just open the file to the relevant part, and follow the existing format.
21:18:16johnb2I am just browsing through the wiki pages on the manual. I see. I will give it a try.
21:18:46TorCBTW, Bilgus I agree it can be ready for prime time on Zip too. Arguably the power button in action select /should/ cancel, but with some players not having a suitable button, and as simple as the action list is, it isn't a big deal.
21:20:51TorCGood luck. I'd help, but that would mean installing git again, and that has a few steps ahead of it. Otherwise, I can't get a proper diff against the repository, just against individual files.
21:21:01johnb2* during my holidays.
21:22:08TorCOf course. There is also the small matter of my holidays being easily filled to bursting with work.
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23:17:58BilgusJonb2, TorC there isn't a way for me to find out if the user hit a certain button while exiting the action selection screen I suppose I could make a menu item that states: SAVE but that seems kind of wonky
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23:18:32Bilguseither that or one that states: CANCEL but again..
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23:33:11Bilgusok next best thing is if you cancel in the prior menu it will splash canceled and not save them mask
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23:55:04TorCBilgus: It isn't a big deal. There are so few settings, they are obvious enough what they do, and easy enough to change. I'd just ignore it then. The power button when exiting the root selBL menu also invokes stop playback, and at that point you've run out of useful buttons on clip+/zip.
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23:55:13TorCThus, my vote would be leave it as is.
23:56:21Bilguswell left is also cancel as well, i'm looking into atm
23:56:28TorCIf you really want to, you could add a line to the root selBL settings "Cancel Changes"
23:57:12TorCIf you want left for cancel, then the bottom line in root selBL settings could be "Confirm Changes"
23:57:43Bilgusyeah thought about that but is kind of annoying
23:57:57 Quit Senji (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
23:58:35TorCTrue. The challenge I see is that the expectation is that only when exiting from actions is the cancel expected to occur.

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