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#rockbox log for 2016-12-21

00:00:04Bilgusoh sure there is but it makes menu cluttered and requires another step
00:00:40BilgusI think i'll just stick to what I have it is afterall a totally new menu selection type
00:01:12TorCAgreed. I think in this case the perfect is the enemy of the good.
00:01:44BilgusI had the save prompt so if it becomes an issue i'll go with that it is already __builtin: :p and it doesn't require a bunch of static vars bloating the code
00:02:53TorCAFAICS, it shouldn't be an issue.
00:03:05TorCThanks for all your hard work on this.
00:04:13Bilgusoh np I enjoy it plus I think it is a very needed addition to most players
00:07:17 Part robertd1
00:07:39TorCI still appreciate it too. Actually, the first player I ever bought was purchased with the plan to install RB.
00:07:54TorCNor do I own a player that won't take RB.
00:09:21TorCI've considered one of the Sony ones, since they are under active development, but the Clip series is still the best bargain I know of for maximum available storage, despite the absurd used prices - no doubt thanks to RB.
00:09:42Bilgusagreed
00:10:36TorCAny of the Sony players would be merely for my own amusement in having a different player
00:11:17TorCAbout the only significant gain for the size and price I can see is an internal speaker.
00:11:53TorCA little hard to justify when I can keep my zip in my shirt pocket without weighing it down too much.
00:12:00Bilgusthey are also damn large from what I see
00:13:30BilgusI bought a clip+ for my car like 3-5 years ago with the plan to RB it and it stayed n there till the mp3 stereos got good enough to justify and now I use it at work
00:14:19BilgusI replaced the battery which amazingly enough still lasted 6 hrs or so even after being in the sun for years
00:14:19TorCYep. The pocket I can keep a player in without it getting scratched is my shirt pocket or a cargo pocket (when I have one). The other pockets are hazardous to a player for one reason or another.
00:15:02TorCYeah, they seem to hold up quite well under moderate use. A shame Sandisk downgraded the hardware for the newer players.
00:15:03BilgusI destroy smartphones at work anything that can stand up with me is well designed
00:15:38BilgusI don't even wear watches anymore because they last less than a few months
00:15:42TorCHopefully before we run out of Clip+/Zips Sandisk or someone will come out with a RBable replacement.
00:16:08BilgusI'll build one if it comes to that
00:16:29TorCI manage a watch reasonably well, but I wouldn't go for an expensive one. Even a cheaper scratch resistant face can't avoid scratches by the time the battery dies on me.
00:17:26TorCI might do the same. I think one reason for the durability of the clip series is that they are so light that even when they get dropped, they don't have that much momentum with which to cause damage.
00:17:44Bilguslast watch I had that made it till the battery died was an iron man by timex the newer ones not so much
00:18:01Bilguspi zero is pretty damn small
00:18:43TorCTrue on the pi. Saint was looking into that as well.
00:19:20TorCPut that in a reasonably ruggedized case, and it should hold up pretty well.
00:19:56BilgusI thought about an ipod already have a 2nd gen nano and 6th gen ( which i was informed has no RB) :(( but I don't like the lack of sdcard ( not like my kids even care about them with their smartphones in tow)
00:20:00TorCIf I did that for myself, I might be tempted to build it with sealed jacks.
00:20:57TorCI've never understood dropping the sd - other than a way for mfrs to make more money charging for increased storage, and sell new devices when people fill up their cheaper ones.
00:21:02BilgusI think i'd move for bluetooth headphones and put in pads for charging to be sealed
00:21:48Bilgusi'm not against spending $$ if it means I get exactly what I want
00:22:13TorCThat thought actually didn't occur to me, but then our place is entirely wired. Ethernet all the way.
00:23:08TorC*of BT headphones
00:25:52TorCI'm usually willing to spend money if the result is really right. Though I generally think long and hard about it before I pull the trigger.
00:28:04Bilgussame
00:28:46TorCSee RB-community
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00:34:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:42:48BilgusJohnb2: when I press the select button in the sim i get the files browse list, for that matter I don't see anyway of getting a short press except for touchscreens
00:44:45Bilgusah nm you said in fm didn't you
00:53:28Bilgusit maps to STD_OK
01:00
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01:03:19Bilguskinda odd it works with button down on the clip+ but not on the fuzev2 Idk if I want to screw with it or just remove the setting
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01:10:15dan-/buffer 172
01:10:23dan-bah
01:21:10Bilgusjohnb2: I think I have it worked out ill upload new firmware in a few hours
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01:44:01Bilgusnope Its just going to have to be like it is it breaks other players
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01:45:18BilgusI think i'll probable leave the setting though as it works on literal unknown actions
02:00
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05:20:07chrisjj"About the only significant gain for the size and price I can see is an internal speaker." ZEN X-Fi is a nice player with speakers. Only imperfection is the buttons are rather uncomfortable.
05:38:22chrisjjHmm. ZEN charged, battery_bench.txt file has zero entries. I must have messed up. Retrying...
05:44:17chrisjjpamaury: "take the first file of the new playlist, and press play, it clears the playlist and adds one file"
05:44:33chrisjjI thought I'd seen this working, but now I don't.
05:47:18chrisjje.g. using ipodvideo-sim-w32 dev 2016-12-18 3ee7972
05:52:27chrisjjTwo tracks on the current playlist: http://i.imgur.com/BUWo92i.png . In Files, select a track http://i.imgur.com/hJaUcF5.png and press Play.
05:53:54chrisjjResult: two tracks, not one.
05:55:24chrisjjAh. RB fails to clear the current playlist if it /equals/ the list of tracks /containing/ the single required track. <sigh>
05:57:36Bilgushuh odd that it would take the time to go through I suppose that is needed to keep from adding a track multiple times to the same pl
06:00
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06:02:50chrisjjI've added duplicate tracks many times. I think RB never prevents it.
06:04:25chrisjjTrying on Sansa Clip+.
06:05:04chrisjjWell, that was quick. Clip+ 'Files' has no usable Play button. Play does Up.
06:06:16chrisjjBilgus, is there another model sim or device you're familiar with, on which you could do a sanity check for me. Ideally iPod.
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06:10:39Bilgusok same on fuze+ but if instead you go to the file long press select and choose 'Current Playlist' > PLAY NEXT it works as expected
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06:17:14chrisjjTrying...
06:17:37 Quit PurlingNayuki (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
06:18:23chrisjjfuze+ or clip+?
06:19:52Bilgusfuze+
06:20:04Bilgussame with the actual clip+
06:20:14chrisjjOn clip+ sim it doesn't work. Fails to clear the playlist. Before: http://i.imgur.com/jYQMQND.png After: http://i.imgur.com/CQbscer.png
06:20:16Bilgusfuze+ was on sim
06:22:26BilgusI do not that when you go back to the WPS it still shows more than one file but when you try to skip that song it updates to 1/1
06:22:33Bilgusnote*
06:23:13chrisjjUrk! Trying
06:24:13chrisjjNot here on clip+ sim. Before: http://i.imgur.com/4fbi1iX.png After skip: http://i.imgur.com/Fd4kRfo.png After further skip: http://i.imgur.com/OxJQFar.png
06:27:38Bilgusill try the clip+sim
06:28:58Bilgusok works there as well
06:29:02chrisjjInsert failure to clear also found on fuze+ sim. Before: http://i.imgur.com/vFFMrUN.png After Insert and two skips: http://i.imgur.com/VHeHOoV.png
06:29:28chrisjjOh? You mean your Insert /does/ clear on clip+sim?
06:29:32Bilgushmm i bet those sims are 3.13
06:29:47chrisjjOh my god.
06:30:01Bilgussystem>rockbox info
06:31:30chrisjjOK.
06:31:38chrisjjFuze+ here: http://i.imgur.com/QjciqRB.png
06:31:52chrisjjThe filename is the dev build # that rasher's site told me. Did he fib?
06:32:37Bilgusno looks possible to me build 12-18-2016
06:34:33Bilgusok so here is wha is on my sim, 3 files all mp3, the current pl has all 3 i then go to files long press select till menu pops up i choose Current Playlist and I then go down to PLAY NEXt
06:34:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:34:52Bilgusit then goes back to files i choose resume playback
06:35:21Bilgusit says 1/2 i then hist skip fwd and it refreshes to 1/1
06:35:51chrisjjMy clip+ sim is laso recent dev buid according to rasher http://i.imgur.com/1Sfd4Ps.png
06:36:07chrisjjRefreshes to 1/1. Coo. I can't get that!
06:36:40chrisjjAh, PLAY next. Gotcha. Trying.
06:38:20chrisjjGot it. clip+ sim. Shows two files, but then skip refreshes to 1.
06:38:28chrisjjhttp://i.imgur.com/JEJb8iM.png
06:38:58Bilgusyep and it is still the same file you selected correct?
06:40:15chrisjjThe remain 1/1 file is the one I selected and Play next-ed, yes.
06:42:16chrisjjSo, we have one method for Clear Playlist. Files, <track>, <context menu>, Current Playlist, Play Next.
06:43:24chrisjjThat I will call The Bilgus Workaround :-)
06:43:52chrisjjNow, can you get the Pamaury Workaround to work? "take the first file of the new playlist, and press play, it clears the playlist and adds one file"
06:46:04Bilgusthat just resumes the current playlist for me
06:46:55Bilgussame with select
06:48:11chrisjjSame for me. So I think pamaury is in error. I guess he misrecalled Play Next command as Play button.
06:48:40chrisjjAs for The Bilgus Workaround, it operates on iPod too.
06:50:33Bilgusmeh dude has a lot on his plate balls deep in several ports and toolchains
06:51:44chrisjjSure. He's a hero!
06:53:27chrisjjThe Bilgus Workaround operates on ZEN too. So I assume it is universal.
06:53:53chrisjjBTW, before you skip to refresh, the bogus track is playable too.
06:54:29 Join Senji_ [0] (~Senji@85.187.103.250)
06:55:05Bilgusah so i suppose it is true to its name then
06:55:08chrisjjI'll make a summary for pamaury.
06:55:11chrisjjpamaury: Re Clear Playlist, I and Bilgus can't get your "take the first file of the new playlist, and press play, it clears the playlist and adds one file" to work at all.
06:58:08chrisjjpamaury: The only way we've found to clear playlist with minimal side effects (adding one track) is: Files, <track>, <context menu>, Current Playlist, Play Next, [Erase dynamic playlist?] Yes, skip forward (to erase bogus remnant track).
06:58:48Bilgushmm maybe an optio should be added 'Play Now'
07:00
07:03:00chrisjjThe fact the Clear List and Play Now are missing really does suggest some clear thinking be applied!
07:05:26Bilguswithout looking into the source or talking to the original developer of that you can't really say things like that
07:05:49chrisjjI now know why I got inconsistent results when first testing (audio off). If the CP ends while you're in Files, Play Next disappears! http://i.imgur.com/7YNz6JX.png
07:06:06chrisjjVery poor design.
07:06:59chrisjjI really doubt there is one original developer. I'd guess we're seeing the effect of layers.
07:08:44chrisjjBut hey, if you can imagine any reason for there being no command to play just the selected track, do say.
07:09:51Bilgusselecting insert i think then adds just the file
07:10:05chrisjjAgreed.
07:11:19chrisjjmeanign the beginner who has no genuine need for Insert and does not see sense in 'inserting' a track in a list that is empty has got to sometimes use Insert instead of Play Now.
07:12:05Bilgusin english.lng id: LANG_REPLACE desc: in onplay menu. Replace the current playlist with a new one. user: core <source> *: "Play Next" </source> <dest> *: "Play Next" </dest> <voice> *: "Play Next" </voice>
07:12:41chrisjjAssuming he's still here, after finding that selecting a track and pressing Play fails for no sensible reason, thus: http://i.imgur.com/dBzAslY.png
07:13:05chrisjjCoo. Looking.
07:15:05 Join johnb2 [0] (~johnb2@p57B456C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
07:15:17chrisjjYeah, "Play Next" == "Replace the current playlist with a new one." Who'd have guessed?? :-)
07:16:43johnb2Blgus: On the cancel/saving, I also would leave it as is. It is reasonable intuitive. Same for the Select in FMS, it's no real issue and not worth screwing other things.
07:16:56johnb2Thanks a lot for your work!
07:16:58chrisjjAnd the manual tells a different story. "Play Next" == "Replaces all but the current playing track with track(s). Current playing track is queued."
07:17:13johnb2* Bilgus:
07:17:16Bilgushttps://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/blob/1f8ea9fe27313228e5df67ce6447830b5c30e5e3/apps/onplay.c#L222
07:17:37Bilgusjohnb2:
07:17:59johnb2I misspelled your nick above ...
07:18:00Bilgusthe link is for chrisjj
07:18:59chrisjjBilgus: "static bool add_to_playlist(int position, bool queue)" is Play Next??
07:19:24Bilguswell yes and no that is what it unwinds to
07:19:58Bilgushttps://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/blob/1f8ea9fe27313228e5df67ce6447830b5c30e5e3/apps/onplay.c#L302
07:20:54Bilgusand the actual menu func https://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/blob/1f8ea9fe27313228e5df67ce6447830b5c30e5e3/apps/onplay.c#L372
07:21:45Bilgusjohnb2: i'm working on the disable unknown thing atm it will instead be two options one for unknown options and one for unmapped actions
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07:23:14chrisjjThis that source shows how it is a muddle, and not why it is a muddle :-)
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07:25:22chrisjjI find that "Play Next" can prompt to "Erase dynamic playlist?" where "No" is effectively cancel. Goodness know why you're prevented from Playing Next with the existing playlist.
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07:25:45chrisjjAlso, I think I see the clue to the mystery refresh effect you find.
07:26:00chrisjjs/you find/you found/
07:26:44chrisjjmanual: "Play Next" == "Replaces all but the current playing track with track(s). Current playing track is queued."
07:27:13Bilgusno it looks to me like the functionality is there https://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/blob/1f8ea9fe27313228e5df67ce6447830b5c30e5e3/apps/onplay.c#L224
07:27:16chrisjj"Queued" means evaporates when you skip off it.
07:27:23Bilgusbut you have to stop playback first
07:28:03chrisjjIf so, then the manual is wrong. "/current/ /playing/ track"
07:32:26Bilguslooks to me like you could pretty easily tweak that to your desires
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07:32:57Bilgusbool new_playlist = !(audio_status() & AUDIO_STATUS_PLAY)|NEWFUCKIGNPLAYLIST;
07:33:33chrisjj"but you have to stop playback first" Testing shows no. I.e. Current Playlist's current track evaporates when the play 'head' leaves it, regardless of whether it is playing.
07:33:59chrisjj"looks to me like you could pretty easily tweak that to your desires" Sure, but that's not product design.
07:34:22chrisjjWhat's needed IMO is a solution that meets general users' desires.
07:34:36Bilguswell see that is the funny thing.. unless explicity stopped i think pause still returns is playing IIRC
07:35:22chrisjjUnfortunately I can imagine many old-timers would not welcome change to the muddle to which they've long adapted.
07:35:42Bilgusyou apparently don't get what i'm saying making a new menu entry for what you want and making a patch
07:35:46chrisjj"unless explicity stopped i think pause still returns is playing" Lost me there.
07:36:17chrisjj"return" as in a function call, perhaps?
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07:37:25chrisjj"making a new menu entry for what you want and making a patch" Sure. Easy. But I think that's probably the process that created the muddle we now have.
07:37:59Bilgusthere is no actual stop command on most players when I was screwing around making a auto turn off when charging complete patch (for myself btw didn't ever submit it) I found taht there was no way to actually stop playback on my player or rather checking for audio_status() & AUDIO_STATUS_PLAY returns true while a song is playing or paused
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07:39:06chrisjjOops.
07:39:09Bilgusoh chrisjj that sounds like an argument of well it is already screwed so I'm not going to fix it and in that case why even bother wasting anyones time complaining?
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07:39:22chrisjjNot at all.
07:40:21chrisjjMotto: "If it is screwed, be sure you understand how it is screwed before attempting a fix".
07:40:34chrisjj:)
07:40:36BilgusI just gave you the path to take so if you wanna do it go for it otherwise it's not on my list
07:41:23chrisjjPath? I'd say more like a sign pointing into a swamp :-) But thanks for the thought.
07:42:13Bilguswhat do you think source code is?? if it were like driving on a highway anyone could do it
07:42:47chrisjjBut you could be right in that just adding simple commands like "Clear Playlist", "Play Now" and "Play Next (no not that one, the other one)" :) could work...
07:43:10Bilgusoh theres a curve ahead and traffic on I-95 oh and a max speed on this curve of 25mph I bet if I do 50 i'll crash
07:43:20chrisjj... for any user happy to ignore the existing commands else accept the state muddle they cause.
07:44:11BilgusI'd seriously suggest against removing stuff unless you find a very good reason to do so
07:44:20chrisjjDid you try it? If so, how come you're alive to tell? :-)
07:44:45BilgusSomeone is used to how it works
07:44:51chrisjjI wasn't suggesting removing.
07:45:15chrisjjHence just adding fixed command, leaving the muddled ones crapping up the UI.
07:45:58chrisjj"Someone is used to how it works" Yup, and probably someone who doesn't much care how many new users it repels.
07:46:20chrisjjClassic problem arising from poorly curated collaborative design.
07:46:47Bilgusyou see to forget this mantra FOR DEVS BY DEVS
07:47:10Bilgusdon''t like it make your own or use OF
07:47:35chrisjjNot official, by a long shot. I think there are some Scandinavians who would remind you of that.
07:48:01Bilguswell I suggest you take your concerns to them
07:48:10chrisjj"don''t like it make your own" ... being the slow death of collaboration.
07:48:51chrisjjRe audio_status() & AUDIO_STATUS_PLAY ...
07:49:00Bilgusno it sure seems you have plenty to bitch about but have taken very little action so i'm gonna leave it at that have a good night
07:49:15chrisjj... have you found any audio_status_really_actually_playing() ?
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10:11:33TorCchrisjj: I took a bit of a look at the Zens. Looks like a bundle of money for little more than a speaker at a cost in size -
10:12:00TorC and without even current mfr support, which is no better than the clip series today.
10:13:23TorCFrom what I've heard and read the headphone out sound quality of the clip series is pretty good.
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14:52:50BilgusTorC: if you go into your zip and choose FM Radio, (and add a few presets if you have none) then short press FM_MODE to switch between scan and preset mode note that it chages the mode and then do a long press to get I assume VOL DOWN does it still toggle the preset mode?
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15:39:38chrisjjTorC : "Looks like a bundle of money for little more than a speaker at a cost in size" It has quite a lot more than a speaker :) The size gets you also a gorgeous 2.5" 320x 240 24-bit display.
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15:41:55chrisjjAnd more buttons.
15:43:22chrisjjTrue it is out of support from the manufacturer, but there's little value in manuf. support of a Rockboxed player anyway.
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20:43:29TorCBilgus: On the zip FM screen, volume uses the same volume buttons as normal, with the down to switch scan/preset is down on the "directional keypad" for lack of a better term.
20:44:55TorC^normal, with^normal, while
20:46:23TorCTherefore, the two operations are entirely orthogonal, and changing either has zero risk of colliding with the other.
20:47:28TorCIt also mean that the FM screen uses a button for scan/preset switch that is unused in WPS
20:48:15TorCI do use that button in WPS to activate the backlight in order to ask the player about the currently playing track specifically because it does nothing.
20:50:20TorCRound about here, I don't have much use for the FM player. In my checking, I found exactly one station I could pick up cleanly in mono, and it isn't one I have much interest in listening to.
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21:29:40Bilgus_phTorc to clairify on your player in Fms long press up on keypad doesn't turn volume up and long press down doesn't turn volume down?
21:32:14Bilgus_phON clip+ if i short press up it mutes unmutes long press it turns vol up; and short press down changes mode (scan seek) but long press down changes mode and turns volume down. Pretty sure it is a bug in the keynap
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22:03:49ulmutulchrisjj,Bilgus: I cannot reproduce the described errors (failing to erase old playlist when creating a new one). For me this function works exactly as expected (tested on YH820). Are you shure you really /stopped/ audio (as opposed to just /pause/ audio)?
22:04:48ulmutul'Motto: "If it is screwed, be sure you understand how it is screwed before attempting a fix".' (https://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20161221#07:40:21)
22:04:50ulmutulI absolutely agree with this statement! So before blaming a muddle to that the devs just got used to, you should dig a bit deeper and track down the real problem ;)
22:05:19ulmutulThe described problems look to me as if the audio wasn't really /stopped/. If you find that a target is "unstoppable" by a bug in the keymaps, please report it here, so that it can be fixed (or look for yourself in apps/keymaps/).
22:05:31ulmutulHint: the right key to stop audio should be listed in the manual: Chapter 4.3.1 "WPS Key control".
22:08:53Bilgusulmutul: you are exactly right stopping playback makes it work as expected
22:09:50Bilguswhich is what the code suggested
22:10:15BilgusI however did not know that there was a stop playback button
22:11:03ulmutul"Stop Audio" is not really self-explanatory for rockbox novices, so maybe "mr. someone" should clarify this in the manual :)
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22:27:27TorCBilgus: Oops. You're right, the long up/down also operates volume. Click up is mute/unmute.
22:28:05TorCAnd yes, both also perform the click action on keypress, with no distinction regarding time before release.
22:28:24Bilgusyeah same I think thats a bug
22:28:44TorCThat's what I get for trying to test something I don't use normally.
22:28:56TorCI'd agree it's a bug.
22:30:46TorCI've just installed the current dev version on one of my alternate players to verify it's not you (but I doubt it)
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22:34:22TorCBilgus: Yep. Current dev exhibits same behaviour. You can ignore it, except as the question affects selBL/selSL.
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22:36:57BilgusI'll submit a separate patch for it once I get a chance to test my changes to it
22:41:11ulmutul__builtin: can you test a fix for the "filled polygon" function?
22:41:12ulmutulIn rockbox.c replace line 258 for (i=0; i<num_of_intersects; i+=2) {
22:41:14ulmutulwith for (i=0; i<num_of_intersects-1; i+=2) {
22:44:19ulmutuland after line 232 (after if (y1==y2) { direct=0;) you should insert
22:44:21ulmutulrb->lcd_hline(x1, x2, scanline); (this is for edged that consist of only a single horizontal line)
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23:01:54ulmutuland maybe (for safety) insert "if (num_of_intersects >= MAX_INTERSECTION) break;" after line 242 (after "++num_of_intersects;")
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