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#rockbox log for 2016-12-27

00:00:19[Saint]1 - ready access to parts
00:00:19[Saint]2 - lack of access (for most people) to a hot air and/or reflow station
00:00:43[Saint]it is literally less expensive to replace the whole unit.
00:02:17[Saint]Even if we assume that one can find the exact same model of NAND storage, most distributors aren't even going to want to consider talking to you unless you're buying tens of thousands of units.
00:17:08 Join Bilgus_ph [0] (~Bilgus_ph@
00:18:33Bilgus_phNone of those sound insurmountable though and it doesn't have to be the same model just proper pinout or something close enough to tweak
00:19:59Bilgus_phNot to say easy but something fun to try
00:38:02[Saint]that would be a very expensive lesson in how to fuck shit up.
00:39:30[Saint]the bootloader expects to see specific hardware, unless you managed to find a pinned package for this NAND and then added a ZIF pin connector to the board your development would take a VERY long time.
00:40:34[Saint]since you'll be having to do the weird spoopy magic not really understood in any capacity low-level restore every time you fucked up the bootloader.
00:50:59 Quit Bilgus_ph (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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01:54:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:04:44shrizzaUgh, iPod it is then huh.
02:05:06shrizzaDoesn't sit well with me but if it is the most servicable device.
02:05:52[Saint]They're not.
02:06:08shrizzaWhat is then?
02:06:10[Saint]But it is the most serviceable and readily available device.
02:06:55[Saint]Presumably serviceability isn't interesting to you if you can't actually acquire the device.
02:08:56shrizzaStill curious to hear what remarkable device you have in mind though.
02:11:13shrizzaI'm down to two Sansa Clips and one of them has slowly dying flash.
02:11:28[Saint]Why must they be remarkable?
02:11:52shrizzaWell you said they were difficult to acquire. That sounds remarkable to me.
02:12:08[Saint]Not particularly. Just old.
02:12:26[Saint]Or expensive.
02:12:28[Saint]Or both.
02:12:46shrizzaBut it's serviceable right?
02:13:01shrizzaOr are the parts also remarkable in that way.
02:14:39Bilguswell that kinda sucks, I'm good with hardware onlr mediocre with software
02:16:26[Saint]Where "it" == ?
02:16:26[Saint]My alternate suggestions are multiple, from the "ancient and/or expensive and/or plain impossible to acquire" series we have:
02:16:26[Saint]Archos Jukebox/Ondio/Recorder
02:16:26DBUGEnqueued KICK [Saint]
02:16:26[Saint]iRiver H3*
02:16:26[Saint]Gigabeat F/S/X
02:17:03[Saint]From the "just plain expensive as fuck" series we have:
02:17:32[Saint]iBasso DX90
02:17:32[Saint]HifiMan HM60* and HM801
02:19:18[Saint]Personally, I think the DX90 is a fucking nice player and I use mine fairly regularly.
02:19:48BilgusI saw where you had said the pi zero needed a fuckton of ancillary hardware to be worth anything and that is the same conclusion I came to researching it not to mention it won't be 'small' anymore
02:20:01[Saint]It is foolishly expensive, but well engineered and engineered from largely available or readily interchangeable internals.
02:20:16[Saint]Bilgus: right
02:20:48[Saint]I tried to make it work but you have to bolt on so much crap to it to get it to be even vaguely functional it isn't even funny.
02:21:43Bilgus$400 for 8gb and 8hr battery life damn
02:22:05shrizzaRockboxable that DX90?
02:22:45Bilgusby user replacable battery does that mean swap on the go?
02:24:04shrizzaDamn two microsd slots?
02:24:11[Saint]you're actually largely better off using any other raspi model and just removing the network controller (save a few hundred mA), and removing the Ethernet port and the block of four USB A ports in favor of replacing the USB jack with just two micro USB ports, and de-mounting (and optionally re-tinning) the GPIO header.
02:24:37[Saint]Then you get something that's about the same form factor as a full size iPod and can carry a decent LCD on it.
02:24:48Bilguswhat about sound though
02:24:55[Saint]I have been working on and off on making something like this for quite some time now.
02:25:17BilgusI'd be willing to do it as long as it sounds good
02:26:15[Saint]Bilgus: If you were willing to sacrifice another ~10mm in thickness (I know it's a lot..) you could do some software fuckery to flip the GPIO ports around a bit and then mount something like one of the many HiFiBerry Raspi DAC options to it.
02:26:33[Saint]I have a HiFiBerry Digi+ and a couple of others myself.
02:27:06[Saint]FOr just pissing around as an SDL Rockbox player I don't really care about the thickness /that/ much though.
02:27:59BilgusI'd be willing to roll my own board with some other stuff on it to save half that
02:28:06[Saint]So I kept the GPIO header on the board, but I removed the ethernet jack and the network controller of a raspi 3, and swapped the 4-port USB header for a 2-port USB header.
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02:29:14[Saint]It has the HiFiBerry Digi+ DAC on it, and a tiny little RTC module sandwiched between the DAC and the Pi board.
02:29:41Bilgus-> community
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02:59:56SaratogaBilgus_ph: it's a weird nand with integrated SD controller on package, they apparently made up to 16 GB versions and they're in tons of stuff, but no data sheet and I haven't seen them for sale individually
03:00:16SaratogaIt's tsop so in theory it could be soldered
03:00:48SaratogaBut without a data sheet or even pinout it's hard to find a compatible part
03:01:55[Saint]Yeah I'll bet.
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03:08:15Bilgusthat kinda sucks Saratoga
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10:36:51johnb2Bilgus: I grabbed the latest version and will test during the coming days.
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15:05:06 Join xcfw [0] (~xcfw@
15:05:58xcfwI have an issue with my clip+, it's look like bricked, and when I'm connecting it to PC it shows as a disk with 30.6 MB which need to be formatted
15:06:18xcfwIs there anybodu who can help me to unbrick?
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15:25:36BilgusI think that means the flash has died no expert though, someone with more info will be along but you might try this
15:26:15Bilgusxcfw: also I don't think windows will format successfully
15:29:10xcfwI have completely read the unbrick manuals, but afraid, that I could do something less dangerous to the sansa I love very much
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15:32:54xcfwBilgus: big thanks
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15:36:14xcfwtestdisk is asking for patiotion type, could you indicate a proper for sansa clip+ 8G internal memory?
15:38:31xcfwI have chosen GPT type
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16:05:13BilgusI wanna say it is fat 32 but ill check
16:08:27Bilgusyep fat 32
16:09:04gevaertspartition table type will be mbr, not gpt
16:09:19gevaertsThat's irrelevant for the 30MB thing though...
16:10:16xcfwgevaerts do you know the way peopel went, when they meet this issue, according to the logs of this ch there was succesiful stories
16:13:22Bilguswhat did TD show as your media size when you selected the disk?
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16:14:48xcfwCHS 3 255 63 - sector size=512
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16:15:21Bilgusbtw my clip show CHS of 478/255/63 Sector size = 512
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16:17:01Bilgusbut this is a 4gb though so i think yours should be 2x the cylinders
16:17:48xcfwthat is the case, there is a big chance that flash memory corrupted, but I hope to restore it with something like hp drive key boot utility, or maybe somebody from here could help me and show the path
16:17:57Bilgusunder the menu geometry you should be able to force it and then plug/unplug and run TD again
16:19:02BilgusIve successfully used TD to recover flash drives with this issue never had the need on a clip+ though
16:21:21Bilgusthere is a 50/50 chance the data is still intact
16:22:09xcfwdo I need to write MBR code?
16:23:47BilgusI don't remember try without and try with if it doesn't work
16:32:37xcfwis there any hidden partitions, or could bad memory stop sansa booting? Is there any firmware specific partition on a flash? I mean what if I will delete all the partitions data, then try to create new fat32 partition and then mkfs to this flash?
16:33:03xcfwcan I brick more my bricked device and win a double brick sansa?
16:35:16BilgusI've tried low level formatting ( in the loosest sense of the term) the internal memory on the sansa and it didn't hurt it a bit but there isn't really enough info about this problem for me and I suspect anyone else to tell you definitively..
16:36:18Bilgusnot to mention is it because the original fw is corrupt or is it that the disk is in some way and the OF is just shitting itself
16:38:40gevaertsxcfw: all I know is
16:38:49gevaertsFormatting that is almost certainly a mistake
16:39:29BilgusI imagine you can probably move the partition boundaries past the bad areas if you can get in and find them
16:40:19gevaertsForget partitions. This is a recovery mode, not some part of the actual storage
16:41:38gevaertsTrying to treat it as a disk and putting partition tables on it or formatting it is a good way to make sure it won't be recoverable (if it still is, which I doubt. I don't remember any actual verified success stories...)
16:41:43BilgusI don't think I'd try screwing with shorting the nand till you have exhausted every other option
16:42:44gevaertsWhat other options are there?
16:43:58CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:43:58*gevaerts believes that all cases of seeing 4MB or 32MB "disks" are caused by failed hardware
16:44:00BilgusIt already has partition tables on it I can't see adding the right sizes back would hurt it but hey let him try the recovery mode and if it still works he can try everything else no worries
16:44:31gevaertsBilgus: what you're seeing in this sort of case is *not* the flash
16:44:56gevaertsIt's interpreted by the recovery firmware, so yes, putting the wrong stuff there *can* hurt
16:45:03Bilguslike I said I'm no expert with the clip+ AFAICT is it uses some funky SW disk control
16:45:49Bilgusor should I say FW disk control
16:45:55gevaertsWhat does that mean?
16:47:05Bilgusas in not hardware but instead in the firmware
16:47:20gevaertsThe clips all use an SD interface on the flash
16:47:44Bilgusthough I suppose it could be said every flash based storage does the same
16:50:06BilgusI say go for it and try 'recovery mode' Its not going to work any worse after
16:55:17Bilgusgevaerts: what do those pins actually map to the nand enable line?
16:55:25gevaertsNo idea
16:55:36*gevaerts isn't an AMS sansa expert at all
16:56:35gevaertsAll I know is that with recovery modes, just trying something and assuming it can't hurt tends to be destructive
16:58:05BilgusIdk i've had pretty good success with start with the least invasive and move on to the more desperate even resorted to shorting the nand 2x in the last 10 years
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16:59:03gevaertsTrue, but knowing how invasive something is can be tricky
17:00:31BilgusWell if we are dealing with a reserved area what If he took a good image and copied it over to his
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17:03:45gevaertsI'm not sure we actually know what the 32MB thing is. It seems likely that it's a RAM image
17:04:17gevaertshmm, no, probably not...
17:07:31xcfwok now I know more
17:07:51Bilgusbeing that TD showed 3 cylinders instead of the 956 I suspect should be showing it sounds a lot like a corrupted drive
17:08:07xcfwfirst - I can connect sansa in MSC mode according to the sandisk support pages, just pressing the central button while plugging it
17:09:13xcfwsecond, after continously plugging and unplugging the device I saw a rockbox started and working, then I turned device off and tryed to restart - no result (happyness for a minute - very sad)
17:10:26xcfwI have a thought that sansa is in recover mode, so I am on the way to try to dd new image onto it
17:10:51Bilgushmm if you can get into RB that sounds promising any way to boot from the card directly gevaerts?
17:11:58gevaertsNot without a modified bootloader, which you almost certainly won't be able to install with the player in this state, and which won't load most of the time anyway
17:12:37gevaertsWhat you're saying sounds to me like probably a bad contact somewhere
17:13:08gevaertsi.e. if you hold it *just* right it can read the flash, otherwise it can't
17:13:54gevaertsNo amount of writing firmware to it is going to fix that
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17:18:12Bilguswell it is RoHS compliant which isn't exactly known for being great maybe barring all else try reflowing the damn thing
17:19:29Bilgusill bbiab and investigate a bit more xcfw let us know how it goes
17:19:41johnb3Regarding booting from SD: Mihael (+Saratoga ?) had provided a modified bootloader respectively the patch for clip+ and fuzev2. This one boots from SD if the internal storage cannot be mounted. I can upload it if you want me to.
17:20:14xcfwit's 4 year old player and I have spent best 4 years of my life with it, that's why I hope for best so much...
17:20:47johnb3Of course you have to be able to flash the bootloader ...
17:21:00xcfwwhen I try to ceonnect the player in MSC mode, then windows says that it's uknown device =(
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17:22:11xcfwcould you indicate is the pressing of central button while connecting sansa to PC will enable recovery mode? I mean is MSC and recovery is the same?
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17:29:50SaratogaMsc is the normal disk mode
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17:30:55SaratogaThe problem with a bootloader to boot from the SD card is that the bootloader is stored on the internal memory so it at least has to working well enough to read the bootloader
17:31:15SaratogaIf it's dead there is no bootloader
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17:54:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:59:06Guest32488fwiw, it's not uncommon with dying mmc that the first few k are still usable (if it's spotted with random errors rather than dying all at once)
18:00:11BilgusI do wonder if the sansa have a reserve area to replace bad blocks
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18:33:11xcfwI have loaded sansa OF
18:33:38xcfwmy problem is due to some contact issue, which I need to find
18:34:18xcfwI have disassembled case, then put much ethanol on the player and then dryed by fan
18:34:25xcfwnow it seems working
18:35:23xcfwso is there any advice what i need to do now for loading the os from tf card instead of internal memory, I mean is there a way to use my sansa without internal memory at all
18:36:01xcfwsomebody told me about the forked bootloader, with external load of RB
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18:51:27xcfwafter turning off the rockbox and reloading into OF and then operating with flash somewhere in 15 minutes it stuck and then I had to turn off and try to restart the player, now it's look like brick again
19:04:52Bilgusdid you try the recovery mode
19:05:08Bilgus(shorting out the two contacts?)
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19:23:28xcfwthere is a big chance that my HW is somehow wrong
19:26:33Bilgus_well once you've exhausted all other options let me know and we will try forcing it
19:49:23xcfwbut what about accidental load of the rockbox does anybody have any thoughts?
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20:21:55BilgusI just dumped the image on my clip+ size of file was 31.5 MB (31,457,280 bytes)
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20:26:55BilgusI realize that is the size of the file that I specified to dump but pretty interesting that it is really close to size xcfw has on his
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21:08:25ulmutulI'd like to push some patches in the next days. Can someone please review the following:
21:08:26ulmutul g#1404 g#1405 g#1406 g#1407
21:08:32fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1404 at : Midi Player: give button actions meaningful names by Sebastian Leonhardt
21:08:32fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1405 at : Midi Player: fix playback of buffer remains when seeking by Sebastian Leonhardt
21:08:33fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1406 at : Midi Player: fix premature stopping of audio buffer playback by Sebastian Leonhardt
21:08:34DBUGEnqueued KICK fs-bluebot_
21:08:34fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1407 at : Midiplay: only boost cpu in sensible code parts by Sebastian Leonhardt
21:12:27 Quit alexweissman (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
21:17:49gevaertsulmutul: I hadn't noticed the octave-per-line pattern, to be honest
21:18:04gevaertsI agree that that probably trumps the 80 characters per line rule
21:18:39CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
21:18:39*gevaerts now thinks it should be properly formatted as a table
21:30:10ulmutulAnd also g#1291 and g#1292
21:30:12fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1291 at : pacbox: clean-up screen size code by Sebastian Leonhardt
21:30:12fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1292 at : pacbox for small screens, up to 75x96 by Sebastian Leonhardt
21:43:08gevaertsulmutul: feel free to push g#489 as well if you feel like it (or make more adjustments to it...). I'm not going to push it now to avoid merge conflicts with your other changes, but you obviously don't have that problem :)
21:43:10fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #489 at : midi: Recalculate (and rename) the note frequency table. by Frank Gevaerts
21:45:49ulmutulOk, I'll do :)
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22:02:21 Join hoshi [0] (
22:02:30hoshiHi pamaury!
22:02:37hoshiHow nwz progress is going?
22:05:18lebelliumpamaury is not here as you can see
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22:11:07Bilgusxcfw what OS are you using Windows or Linux or which are you more comfortable in if you have both
22:16:50xcfwboth, arch, gentoo and win7x64
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22:51:31Bilguswell anyways xcfw if you ever make it back could you dd the drive and post the file somewhere or use a disk hex editor and paste the results somewhere on win HxD hex editor will allow you to open a disk (, and on Linux active @ disk editor will allow you to open disks (
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