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#rockbox log for 2016-12-30

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10:47:19 Join Cu5tosLimen [0] (~CustosLim@unaffiliated/cust0slim3n)
10:47:38Cu5tosLimenis there any device still being produced that runs RockBox ok ?
10:47:45Cu5tosLimenI used sansa clip but it died
11:00:26 Join edhelas [0] (~edhelas@
11:02:42Cu5tosLimenshould hav bought more ;(
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11:45:33dongsCu5tosLimen: how did it die
11:45:35dongsdoesnt power up?
11:45:41dongsi've got a desk drawer full of those things
11:45:49dongsreally need to figure out how to swap flash on them properly.
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11:59:33Cu5tosLimendongs, actually it seems like maybe it did not die but battery is just really low
12:00:28Cu5tosLimenI have it in my car connected to ligher/power socket
12:00:37Cu5tosLimenand it was not powering up
12:00:47Cu5tosLimenbut I drove around a bit and then it powered up again
12:00:56Cu5tosLimenbut it goes off quicly now
12:00:59Cu5tosLimenI dunno
12:01:19Cu5tosLimenI'm very sad that I can't have another though
12:02:17Cu5tosLimenI'm looking at this for a backup now:
12:02:22Cu5tosLimenbut I know it will suck
12:02:59 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@2a02:8108:8b80:1700:ed9c:f2b7:2742:be1)
12:04:20Cu5tosLimenI'm also considering getting a phone (something like wileyfox) and using that in my car
12:14:09dongswell you can get replacement batteries
12:14:17dongsthose are not bad, i swapped a few out
12:14:26dongsas long as you get the legit one and not some china knockoff
12:16:01dongsbiggest problem with those is after some years flash wears out and it just stops booting
12:16:09dongscuz they used the shittiest nand they could find
12:17:00TorCCu5tosLimen: If it works when connected to USB power, but won't stay powered up otherwise, then dongs is most likely right that it's the battery.
12:17:46Cu5tosLimenwhere would I get replacement batteries though ?
12:17:50Cu5tosLimendoes it use something standard ?
12:17:51TorCI've opened a couple of those myself. Not the easiest in the world, and it leaves some marks, but done well it won't be a problem.
12:18:10dongsCu5tosLimen: i got some legit and fake sets offebay
12:18:54Cu5tosLimenman this is making me suffer from Le Wrong Generation syndrome ;(
12:19:15dongs i.e. this is legit
12:19:31Cu5tosLimentoo young to exlore space ... to late to have mp3 players that I can still run rockbox on :)
12:19:41dongsthis is not
12:19:49dongsactually im not so sure about 1st lin keither, sec
12:20:29dongsya 1st one is ok
12:20:38dongserr,, tahts zip
12:20:44Cu5tosLimendongs, ye is what I have
12:20:50dongsoh you have zip? not clipp?
12:20:56Cu5tosLimenwell clip zip
12:21:05Cu5tosLimenehrm ... man now you are asking some tough questions
12:21:12Cu5tosLimenlet me see
12:21:36Cu5tosLimenok sorry - I have sansa clip+
12:21:38Cu5tosLimen3 of them
12:21:39dongszip has silver buttons
12:21:43TorCClip+ has two colour screen, zip full colour
12:21:54Cu5tosLimenyeah mine is monochrome
12:22:05Cu5tosLimenor no - the two colours
12:22:09Cu5tosLimenyellow and blue
12:22:18TorCThat's the Clip+, all right.
12:22:27Cu5tosLimenye is clip+
12:22:48dongs this is legit real one, the batts i have out of my clip"'s have same BAK 323036P code
12:23:34TorC$17 for a battery that size? That's quite a bit.
12:24:05Cu5tosLimenye and then prob like $50 for shipping to south africa
12:24:16TorCWonder what the dimensions are. If you can find a battery of appropriate physical dimensions from a reputable seller, you should be able to use that.
12:24:20dongsTorC: for some reason they 're all around that price
12:24:34dongsprobly same reason clip+'s themselves are going for around 60$ now
12:24:38Cu5tosLimenTorC, I'm kinda also thinking that
12:24:49dongsi snagged a bunch for <$20 years ago
12:25:17TorCInteresting. When I made my bike light I got 3ah cells for about $6 each.
12:27:33dongsyeah RC lipos are cheap as shit
12:28:47Cu5tosLimenyeah I dunno replacing flash will be shitty
12:28:58TorCGuess that's just the sweetspot of price/performance.
12:29:06dongsyea its a cunt to open it up
12:29:19Cu5tosLimenI would assume flash is that black block next to SD card slot
12:30:03dongsright. replacing it isnt a problem with right tools
12:30:07dongsthe problem is getting filesystem + shit back on it
12:30:19TorCThere was discussion of replacing flash in the players a few days ago. Basically, the chips are apparently not available anywhere, even though they were made by the zillion.
12:30:20dongsone of these days I need to get off my lazy ass and do it on a 16gig nand
12:30:38dongsTorC: ehh, you can definitely get standard nand flash to go there
12:30:41 Join salty-horse [0] (~salty-hor@unaffiliated/salty-horse)
12:31:25salty-horsehi. are sgt-puzzles enabled to be compiled by default, or do I need to set some flag? (If they are enabled by default, and they don't build, I'm guessing it's because my platform doesn't support it)
12:32:19dongsi.e this shit for 8gb
12:33:08dongsand all nand flash is standard pinout
12:34:00TorCMaybe. It would be nice if it worked. I'm not the one to get it working, but if someone else figures it out I might be able to follow.
12:34:21Cu5tosLimensux so much ;(
12:34:37TorCApparently the nand used has an integrated SD controller of some kind.
12:34:57dongsthats what the SoC has
12:35:15dongsit has nand flash controller which is interfaced to as if its a sd
12:35:28dongsflash chip is regular thing.
12:35:36Cu5tosLimenhey though ... there is actually an option I'm not thinking about ;) - can just use raspberry pi maybe
12:36:46freesoftwareyeah but HUEG
12:37:20Cu5tosLimenwell its in my car
12:37:22Cu5tosLimenso meh
12:37:43freesoftwarealso it's not automotive grade
12:38:13TorCdongs: Try about 02:00 on Dec 27th for the relevant bits on AMS nand.
12:38:16TorC(15:59:58) Saratoga: Bilgus_ph: it's a weird nand with integrated SD controller on package, they apparently made up to 16 GB versions and they're in tons of stuff, but no data sheet and I haven't seen them for sale individually
12:38:16TorC(16:00:18) Saratoga: It's tsop so in theory it could be soldered
12:38:16TorC(16:00:50) Saratoga: But without a data sheet or even pinout it's hard to find a compatible part
12:38:16DBUGEnqueued KICK TorC
12:38:16TorC(16:01:57) [Saint]: Yeah I'll bet.
12:39:30freesoftwarei bet they're bottom binned sandisk SDs
12:40:04dongsoh whoa, fuck. you are right. pinout doenst match standard nand
12:40:13dongsi thought the sd controller was on-chip and just talked to nand
12:40:41freesoftwarewire an sd card on it lol
12:40:49dongseyah, thats next logical thing
12:40:59freesoftwarewire it to the sd slot
12:41:05dongsit doesnt boot from SD slot
12:41:14freesoftwareso wire it there
12:41:52dongsdisconnect that and wire internal shit there?
12:41:54dongsi guess so
12:43:38TorCI might wonder if an sd card could be wired to it, but that would be tricky with the (lack of) space in the player.
12:44:33TorCI think Bilgus made a FW patch that would boot from uSD if nand was bad.
12:45:28 Join paulk-collins [0] (
12:45:55TorCI don't know if there's hope for already dead players, but maybe that should be added to the mainline if it doesn't interfere with normal usage as a protection against players completely dying faster than they could.
12:46:43TorCTell people "if your nand dies, just load RB onto you uSD with a computer, and you'll be good to go. Just don't expect to use OF ever again."
12:47:27dongsits using one hell of a crazy sd slot, too
12:47:30TorCI'd be glad to install it on mine, and the ones I maintain as insurance.
12:47:34dongsive neverseen the ones with connectors on the sides
12:48:15freesoftwareor maybe you could hunt for sandisk cards that has a similar controller
12:48:40freesoftwareones that don't have a separate controller in them
12:48:44freesoftwaremight work
12:48:46Cu5tosLimenthis is what I was thinking about actually:
12:49:38freesoftwarethen you wire 2124324234 more accessories to it and suddenly it's not very practical
12:49:45TorCThe description I read didn't sound so much like an SD slot, as just a NAND with integrated SD controller and strange pinout, though the SD controller seems like it should imply a theoretically SD compatible pinout if the traces can be put together.
12:50:15TorCThat if is probably a big if, though, considering the confined space.
12:50:29freesoftwareso is it raw nand or sd?
12:50:34dongsTorC: no i meant the microsd socket on the board.
12:51:18dongs normally something like this with pins on the botom end
12:51:27dongsbut the sansa one is like... 5 pins on both sides
12:51:43dongsalso its reversed
12:52:33freesoftwarereversing it allows the card label to face forward during insertion
12:52:37freesoftwarewhich is nice
12:53:29TorCfreesoftware: The quote I posted a few minutes ago suggests to me that it's raw nand with integrated SD controller, which should be approximately SD. Admittedly I don't have the HW experience you apparently do, so consider me untrustworthy here.
12:53:49freesoftwarelol i don't
12:54:05freesoftwarebut idk if it interfaces as raw nand or sd
12:55:14TorCLook back to late Dec 26th/early Dec 27th UTC for context on the quotes I posted.
12:55:54 Join johnb3 [0] (
12:58:07TorCBTW, looks like the Clip series batteries are probably custom designed to fit the space the engineers at Sandisk had available in each model.
12:58:30johnb3Regarding the modified boot loader: it was Mihail on the forums.
12:58:52TorCYou could check the specs to see if they could all use the same battery (they've got pretty similar cases).
12:59:09TorCThanks for the info on the bootloader.
12:59:14freesoftwareTorC nothing the chinese can't do
12:59:26johnb3I had asked him if he would commit it, but he said he still needed some code cleanup (that was about 2 months ago).
12:59:42freesoftwarethough if you're willing to give up the clip you can wire a BL-5C in
12:59:49freesoftwaretotal 1000mAh
13:00:02johnb3I will upload it for clip+ and fuzev2.
13:00:09dongsone of my clips is connected to 20Ah rc lipo
13:00:16dongsi get like 3 weeks of runtime off that
13:00:26TorCI bet. Usually if
13:00:38dongs24/7 runtime that is
13:00:38TorCI need more runtime, I just plug it into my bike light battery.
13:01:18TorCThat's a 14.8V 6Ah critter. Plenty to run the zip for a loooong time
13:01:33TorCI bet with that monster of a battery.
13:02:43dongshmm you know
13:03:00dongsi was first looking at nor flash pinout which is why i thought it was wrong
13:03:04dongsbut looking at proper nand now
13:03:07dongsits matching
13:04:17freesoftwarewell yeah it makes sense
13:04:29freesoftwarethat way it can be used as either
13:04:58dongsfuc, or not
13:05:05dongsweird fucking sandisk
13:05:27johnb3this will boot from SD if mount of internal memory fails.
13:05:44johnb3I have one clip+ where this happens every now and then.
13:05:46freesoftwarewhat if i desolder the nand chip?
13:05:52dongsfreesoftware: i just did that
13:06:17freesoftwaredoes the soc not have some debug mode?
13:06:21freesoftwareor sd boot mode?
13:06:25dongsit connects to USB as dead drive
13:06:29dongssame as if nand is dead
13:08:42johnb3,51304.msg237134.html#msg237134 is thread on the bootloader patch.
13:08:47TorCjohnb3: Thanks. I've downloaded the clip+ version.
13:09:59 Quit johnb3 (Quit: Nettalk6 -
13:12:59dongs anyway doesnt match standard pinout. GND/VSS stuff is slightly different place etc
13:13:30dongsdefinmtiely more pins than one would need for even 8bit sdio tho
13:17:30dongsactually right side sorta matches if I take some liberty with NC pins
13:27:29dongspin 39 goes somewehre, but is NC normally on nand.
13:27:33dongssame for 34/35
13:28:20dongs23 is NC but its clearly connected to gnd
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13:35:31dongsjohnb2: so i wonder how i get that .bin into a dead clip?
13:35:33dongstoo late right?
13:35:38dongsjust into one thats kinda dead?
13:35:59johnb2yep, I guess too late.
13:36:27dongs< dongs> i mapped out the flash chip, it does sorta look like x16 nand with a couple exceptions...
13:36:36dongsunless they made all those connections for no reason..
13:36:42johnb2as mine is not always flawed and took the opportunity to install it, just in case it completely dies.
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13:56:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:05:18freesoftwareweird, where i live dead screens and headphone jacks are far more common
14:05:31freesoftwarenever heard anyone had a failed nand
14:21:51 Join johnb2 [0] (
14:36:55shrizzaFailing NAND here also on Clip Zip. That forum post just gave me hope for mine. Thanks.
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14:45:54dongsnice. i know in the pile of dead ones in my drawer, I should have at least one thats sorta turns on sometimes (takes a few minutes to boot)
14:45:58dongsmaybe I can fix that one
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14:47:19dongstime to look at clipp jtag pinout.
14:47:20Bilgus_Ph>Werent Me.. >> TorCI think Bilgus made a FW patch that would boot from uSD if nand was bad.
14:47:27Bilgus_PhI think Pamaury did
14:47:54dongswhat the hell... why is jtag on the DISPLAY connector
14:48:44dongsoh, i see
14:48:51dongsits the staggered row of stuff behind
14:48:54dongser below display
14:48:56freesoftwareit has jtag?
14:49:28dongs back side of pcb, under display connector
14:49:32freesoftwaredoes it have serial?
14:49:43dongsnot exactly user firendly connector but its doable
14:50:31freesoftwaredon't you need equipments for jtag though?
14:50:48dongslike... a debugger? yeah
14:52:59dongshaha mine is rev16
14:53:03freesoftwarewelp, i'm here hoping for jz, sold my zip some time ago
14:53:17freesoftwarekinda miss it, never knew i needed 22hr battery
14:54:04Bilgus_Phyou can hack a jtag reader with an arduino or a FTDI2232
14:55:17 Quit johnb2 (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
14:55:46Bilgus_Phhack = make not very clear there sorry
14:56:12dongsmake not very clear = your not wrong
14:56:21freesoftwareyour = you're
14:56:27dongs8gb was biggest clip right?
14:57:00freesoftwareis the nand slc or mlc?
14:57:16Bilgus_Phlol ill try again sorry phone is kinda hard to be elaborate
14:57:24dongswho knows. i'm sure its the shittiest garbge sandisc could find
14:57:30 Join johnb2 [0] (
14:58:03dongswe all know what you meant Bilgus_Ph
14:58:05Bilgus_Phyou can make (read hack together) a Jtag debugger with an Arduino or FTDI2232
14:59:01freesoftwarewhat do you need to make a jtag debugger btw?
14:59:10freesoftwareas in, hw requirements
14:59:27dongsif you want a good one, you need $. if you want junk, then anything will do, even parallel port.
14:59:52Bilgus_Phyep just need to be aware of voltage limits 3v3 typically
15:00:22Bilgus_Phpc parallel ports are typ 5v so you need to level shift
15:00:40freesoftwarecan you bitbang it
15:00:53Bilgus_Phproper zener diode or an actual level shift chip
15:01:10dongsgenerally jtag state machine works at any frequency so yeah
15:01:18Bilgus_Phyes you can bitbang
15:03:16Bilgus_PhIf I were to actually need it I think I'd get a real purpose made one I was just playing around with it when I hacked one together
15:03:26freesoftwarei still need to buy a screwdriver to open my m2, screw you T2
15:03:38Bilgus_Phmake a screwdriver
15:04:27freesoftwarei have some chunks of scrap metal but they'd break before i can file them properly
15:05:04freesoftwarethis is torx t2 i think? fortunately not security
15:06:22Bilgus_Phtorx is an easy one to get pretty easy to use a flat head on too unless it is super tight
15:06:39Bilgus_Phsorry I didn't realize it was so hard to get things in SA
15:06:51freesoftwarething is i don't have anything small enough
15:08:28freesoftware(alsmost stripped it squeezing a T5 in too)
15:08:48Bilgus_Phsorry different person thought you were in South Africa
15:09:14Bilgus_PhI've used hex keys on torx and even ground slots in them
15:09:51freesoftwarestill, i have nothing small enough, i think it's 1-2mm
15:09:57 Join alexweissman [0] (
15:10:03Bilgus_Phsometimes I do it after they are out too that way next time it won't be a PITA
15:10:40freesoftwarei'd like to replace it with a PH000 or something too
15:11:58Bilgus_PhI ran into these ones on something I don't remember maybe a laptop display but anyway they were so small and so tight they stripped my driver out was left with a divot the size of a bic pen tip
15:12:22Bilgus_Phthose got drilled
15:12:26freesoftwarelol i also stripped my driver on a stripped screw
15:13:00Bilgus_Phanyways good luck bbl
15:13:09 Quit Bilgus_Ph (Quit: Page closed)
15:15:36johnb2As you wer talking about dying dispays: I have a clip+ which has a readable display if at full contrast and hooked up to usb. When unplugged, it's faintly readable if the battery is still fully loaded. If contrast is set to a low value it isn't readable in either case.
15:16:14johnb2Any ideas what happened here?
15:17:30dongsjohnb2: different revisions have diffferent way to handle brightness
15:17:35dongshas it always been that way>?
15:17:38dongsor did it die overtime
15:17:48dongsmaybe yours is getting misdetected as wrong thing?
15:18:23 Join rela_ [0] (
15:18:47johnb2Actually I bought a bunch of 5 on *bay as defective. THis one came this way. Another had the power switch ripped off.
15:18:57johnb2It happens also in OF.
15:19:34johnb2a 3rd one was stuck in 'refreshing media' and I was able to fix it.
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15:21:17johnb2For the one with the display bug I resorted now to voice and talk files for listening to audiobooks.
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15:28:32dongsone wire to go
15:29:49freesoftwarethat one just had its screen die over time
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15:30:11freesoftwarethat's common with old (5+ yr) ones
15:36:14dongshm 2.8V I/O on the clip is that right
15:36:38dongs heh
15:37:33relathat looks dodgy
15:39:32freesoftwarewow ingenic is still using 130nm in 2010
15:46:10 Join PurlingNayuki [0] (~Thunderbi@
15:48:05dongsthats not even the worst part
15:48:09dongsthe worst part is tehy're still using mips
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15:52:17dongs - Target interface speed: 1000 kHz (Fixed)
15:52:18dongs - J-Link found 2 JTAG devices. Core ID: 0x07926F0F (None)
15:52:49dongsthats a 926e core, so i did something right at least
15:52:59dongsi wonder why there's 2 devices on the chain? boundary scan and actual core?
15:53:57dongsoh, 'ARM ETB'
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16:03:45dongsmh fuck. largest nand i can find laying around is 2megs
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16:07:07dongsfound 4gbit
16:07:15dongsi guess better than nothign for a test
16:08:49freesoftwareNOTHING wrong with mips
16:09:22dongslpl is forum down
16:10:10freesoftwarei wish i can solder
16:10:20freesoftwareseems like a useful skill
16:10:23dongsbetter than 16mbit i found earlier :p
16:10:47freesoftwarei have 8GB
16:10:51freesoftwarebut it's bga
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16:11:27dongsand probably emmc as well
16:12:27freesoftwarenah it's from a flash drive
16:18:34dongsallright new flash soldered
16:18:58freesoftware60% doesn't work
16:19:32 Quit johnb2 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
16:20:37dongsi got a 450meg flash drive
16:21:15dongshm no lookin at wrong stuff
16:21:26dongsneed to get a better usb cable and short taht thing that makes it come up as usb device
16:22:05dongsthis usb cable is so trash if i touch it, it fucking disconnects
16:23:55freesoftwareis that a + or zip?
16:24:23freesoftwaremini usb huh
16:24:28dongsbut flash didnt explode and power consumption is normal, so im gonna see how this goes
16:24:54freesoftwarei have this mini usb cable that came with a 2006 canon camera, still perfectly fine
16:25:05freesoftwareit's also soft unlike most cables these days
16:25:09dongsthat is exactly what i have
16:25:12dongswhite canon mini usbn
16:25:23freesoftwaremine is perfect though
16:25:32dongssays canon on the back side too, and it is probably about as old as yours if not more
16:25:37dongsyea i yanked on it too many times
16:25:50freesoftwareto be fair i don't use it too often
16:26:45freesoftwarewell cables are cheap so you can always get another (10)
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16:30:54dongs32meg raw partition is up
16:30:55dongslets see
16:31:02dongsi guess ill put that bootsd bin on it
16:31:44dongsanyone got uh
16:33:56dongsif I can read stuff back after writing it, means the flash works
16:34:03dongsand if it works im buying some 16gb nand tomorrwo
16:34:16dongsand opening sansa clip+ 16GB resale biz
16:41:45dongsnope, readback is 0, dongs.
16:41:54dongsmaster plan thwarted
16:42:13dongsnow i gotta wait for someone who knows if I can load some code into ram w/jtag and test if flash controller works at all
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17:43:03dongshm, i dont think ram is mapped to 0x0...
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18:01:35dongswhere are all the sansa clip+ pros :(
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19:35:24freesoftwareall gone
19:45:18dongsoh crap
19:45:26dongspowering up by battery was different than booting rom usb
19:45:31dongsmaybe now i can try the loader stuff
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19:53:32dongshm no diff
19:53:41dongsstuff at 0 is still looks mapped to rom or osmeshit
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20:00:12BilgusI can get you the 32mb partition in a few days if you have need for it
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21:22:18Saratogadongs: I googled the nand chips in the newer clips, I don't think they're pin compatible with normal nand, probably why you got the 32 MB partition
21:23:04SaratogaThe only Sandisk players used generic nand with an sdc1 chip as the SD controller, I think with the clip there is an sdc1 stacked inside the nand package
21:27:58SaratogaThat should read "older Sandisk" players
21:28:28SaratogaI didn't search very hard however, it's possible that a data sheet is out there somewhere
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