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#rockbox log for 2016-12-31

00:17:41 Nick Bray90820_ is now known as bray90820 (
00:25:05 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507])
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02:25:38 Quit ender (Quit: BOFH excuse #53: Little hamster in running wheel had coronary; waiting for replacement to be Fedexed from Wyoming)
02:29:24dongshm he left already.
02:36:25dongsbut if "nand" on sansas was some custom thing converting to SD why the shit would they have just as many connections as a normal nand flash
02:36:51dongshm i think ill xray the 4gb deadnand i took out to see if its just the flash die or if there's a controller stacked / near it
02:37:19dongs.. if i find where i tossed it
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03:09:00 Join Saratoga [0] (47e27552@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
03:09:33Saratogadongs: I am mostly guessing, it's possible it is normal nand and the SD logic is on die with the as3525
03:09:55SaratogaIf so that would make fixing players much easier
03:11:44 Quit kleinerbasti (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
03:15:25dongsSaratoga: thats what I THOUGHT it was
03:15:32dongsuntil someone said it was on-flash chip
03:15:35dongsanyway, took xrays uh...
03:16:39dongs thats not what last flash I looked at looked like
03:24:08dongsdidnt expect so much metal that it covers everything
03:24:53dongsand honestly i expected teh shit to be wirebonded not wahtever the hell this is
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03:56:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:30:20SaratogaWiki says the pin out is onfi although I don't know how that was determined
04:38:53dongs< dongs> i mapped out the flash chip, it does sorta look like x16 nand with a couple exceptions...
04:45:16SaratogaSorry, missed that, should put it on the wiki
04:46:00SaratogaHow did you map that?
04:46:46dongslooked at onfi pinout, saw that most of those pins are connected same way, vcc/gnd parts are obvious etc
04:47:01dongswhat i'm saying is that pinout *does* look like standard nand, with a couple exceptions i marked on there
04:47:39dongslike it has CE2 conencted (pin8) but that one is not used in X16 mode
04:47:43dongsthe only thing I can think of is that
04:47:51dongsliek 1gb (do those exist?) clips used x8 nand mode
04:48:01dongsand then something larger like 8gb would use x16
04:48:02dongsor something
04:48:12dongsor maybe they just made it compatible with either one
04:48:37dongsbut 34/35 which are NC officially connecting is weird...
04:49:18dongsand now looking at that die xray, that pin36 actualyl is connected to gnd which spreads across the entire chip, which would be gnd on x8 but NC on x16.
04:49:29dongsbut the die pic shows it wired up as x16, at least all the pins are there
04:50:46SaratogaNot sure if this matters but I believe the nand is accessed as N banks of 2GB each
04:51:11SaratogaOr maybe 1 GB, been forever
04:51:30dongsSaratoga: do you know as32wahtever boot sequence? if I wanted to boot it over jtag, by loading some code, is there steps to go through first? the jtagunbrick shit says loading into 0x0, but thats mapped to ROM when I power my stuff up
04:52:00dongsif I jump to 0x0 and start executing from tehre, it runs, then gets stuck in a endless loop somewehre in 0x80004xxx or someshit
04:55:04dongsdonno if internal memory needs to be setup first and bla bla
05:05:25SaratogaIirc it starts executing ROM, sets up the nand and dram, and then loads the nand start into ram
05:06:02SaratogaThe data sheet describes how to boot from various things, but evidently the Sandisk ROM is different then built in
05:06:34 Quit atsampson (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
05:06:47SaratogaFunman might remember more I never played with it much
05:08:27SaratogaA few people have looked at the ROM but I'm not sure it's ever been fully worked out
05:09:18SaratogaPossibly if it's already booted the memory map is setup wrong
05:09:26SaratogaI forget if we remap it
05:09:27dongsright, i think what i need to do is skip the nand stuff, just do initial boot to bring up PLL/etc, setup ram/whatnot if needed, load what would have been loaded from nand into ram and jump there
05:10:01dongsis v2 (clip+) AMS chip much different from the one that the datasheet exists for?
05:10:08dongsi.e. completely different memory map etc
05:10:19SaratogaCan you put a breakpoint in the mkamsboot preboot loader?
05:10:28dongsv1 datshet talks about extenral sdram and shit (I guess it could be stacked die)
05:10:37dongsmy jtagged clip has dead nandflash
05:10:51dongsso I can only boot to rom or to code I put into ram, wherever that is
05:10:57SaratogaIt does have a different memory map ( more iram and different hardware)
05:11:12dongsand datasheet to that isnt linked? i only found v1 thats hosted by keil or wahtever
05:11:25dongs < this
05:11:27SaratogaThey all have dram, either external or stacked die
05:12:14SaratogaThere's no data sheet for v2, it's a mix of the as3525 and as3531 and some random Sandisk stuff
05:12:26dongsfuckin great
05:12:58dongsah, 3531 looks more like the v2 chip
05:13:03SaratogaPeople have unbricked a v1 device over JTAG many years ago
05:13:12 Join atsampson [0] (
05:13:28SaratogaBut it was after a bad flash, and on the m200v4 I think
05:16:25dongsyeah , my flash is deader than BSD, so just reflashing it isnt gonna help. i scrapped around a random 4gbit nand i had laying around and soldered it on, in 'recovery' usb mode it does show up as 32meg disk but writing to it and reading back brings back zeros so its clearly not w orking
05:17:08dongsi guess its quite likely rom only supports setting up just a dozen chips that sandisk would use or something
05:17:11dongsassuming it even gets tehre
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05:19:47SaratogaMkamsboot source says that on v1 iram is mapped at 0x0 while v2 maps dram there
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05:20:16dongswell theres definitely something there when i attach
05:20:19dongseven right after reest
05:20:26dongsit just looks like standard arm vector table
05:20:36dongscant be ram right awayt
05:20:50dongsmaybe ROM that executes some junk and later becomes RAM after initialization/remapping
05:20:52SaratogaROM ?
05:21:03dongsif i try changing 1st vector it doesnt take
05:21:09dongsso, i mean, cant write to it
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05:23:01SaratogaIiuc the default ROM (which is not quite what Sandisk is using ) should poll various hardware devices to figure out what to do
05:23:22dongsdoes 512k iram always exist at same addres ssomewehre?
05:23:23 Quit treaki_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
05:23:24dongsbefore sdram is brought up
05:23:29SaratogaSo maybe if the nand doesn't respond it never sets up the ram
05:23:53Saratoga320 KB on v1, 1MB on v2
05:24:08dongsat which address tho?
05:24:21SaratogaIt's embedded DRAm of some kind, ams licensed it from tsmc
05:24:37dongsright, sram or whatever
05:24:51SaratogaIt's slower, but yeah
05:25:03SaratogaEverything is remappable
05:25:17dongshow much of sdram tho?
05:25:20SaratogaWe don't use virtual memory, but there is an MMU
05:25:43dongs3531 datasheet says 512k sram
05:25:56Saratoga2 or 8 MB depending on device, but sdram controller must be configured first
05:26:14SaratogaIt's double that on the Sandisk hardware
05:26:30dongsi guess i can just keep writing rnadom values at every few megs into addres sspace until i hit where the ram is
05:26:33SaratogaIt's not quite the same as either data sheet
05:27:06dongsdoes rockbox bootloader expect hardware to be already setup by OF boot?
05:27:08SaratogaDoesnt the data sheet specify the initial memory map? Probably that didn't change much
05:27:11dongsor can it do all the bringup itself
05:27:25dongsthe v1 datasheet has, but its fucked up, ram wasnt working at that address either
05:27:52SaratogaSome stuff is setup already, but most things are reset by rockbox anyways
05:29:13SaratogaI'm not sure anyone has figured out what exactly the ROM does
05:30:36dongswell i could dump/step/disassemble/decompile it but without memory map or at least most periphral addreses map it would be annoying as shit
05:31:03dongscould probly look through what rockbox has figured out for peripherals like gpio/whatever else it touches
05:33:22SaratogaI think what you could do is setup the dram, load rockbox into ram, and then boot into it, but even then you'd be reset when you powered off
05:34:07SaratogaUnless you replaced the nand
05:34:35dongsright, but if that does work, and rockbox can format the internal nand (the 4gbit replacement), then things could go from there
05:35:17dongsbut anyway if ROM is only looking for a handful flash device IDs and doens't setup anythign that's not in that list then its fucked anyway as it will never boot from anything else
05:35:55SaratogaI think if you got a new nand working, you could do the ams unbrick trick to rewrite it
05:36:25dongswhich was what? booting in recovery mode and copying some .bin file over?
05:36:37SaratogaYeah that could be a problem if it only works with a few chips
05:36:39dongsi did that, but readback was zeros
05:36:47dongsso clearly nothign was going into it
05:37:03SaratogaIf it's working you get a whole bank of memory, 1 GB I think
05:37:10dongsoh, really?
05:37:24dongswell, 4gib would be 512megs but yeah
05:37:25SaratogaIf nothing is working you get 32 or 4 MB on AMSv2
05:37:26dongsi dont have anything bigger
05:37:33dongsyes, i get 32.
05:37:59SaratogaOn v1 I think 32 (or 16?) Means it worked
05:38:13dongsi guess I could grab 32gbit nand somewehre and resolder it again
05:39:18dongswould probly fuckup my carefully planted jtag connection
05:39:30dongs < this
05:46:28dongsi really dont know. the flash pinout confuses me greatly
05:46:49dongsif it was some custom thing with SDIO controller on it, it wouldn't need all those pins.
05:47:06dongstechnically in 1 bit sdio you only need 3 wires
05:47:14dongsclk, cmd, and d0
05:48:02dongsi suppose they could have trolled everyone and put that interface into pins 34/35/38/39 or something
05:48:07dongson those NC pins on the nand pinout
05:48:23dongsbut i think thats pretty farfetched
05:48:38dongsbut then why bother routing/connecting the rest of nand pinout
05:50:42fIorzsourcing flexibility somehow?
05:50:48fIorzbut does sound wild indeed :-)
05:50:59SaratogaIt's used in a lot of different devices (see Google), maybe it has multiple modes?
05:51:17dongswhat is, the AMS chip? or that shitdisk weirdnand
05:51:39SaratogaAlternatively it could be normal nand, but why put an SD controller in hardware if the CPU has a nand controller anyway
05:52:03SaratogaThe nand chips is
05:52:04dongsmaybe they had some IP left over from making sdcards
05:52:23SaratogaThey use it in USB sticks
05:52:38dongsthen its gotta be just normal nand, eh?
05:52:55dongsmaybe i should find my socket and try actualyl reading the sandisk part
05:53:07dongsat least to get chip ID or something, then it would be obvious its not some SD-controller based weird thing
05:55:30dongsbut if that part is in usb sticks as you say... even less reasons for it to be internally SD-based..
05:56:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:58:01SaratogaMaybe they put the flash translation layer on the package and expose it to the USB bridge?
06:05:55dongstypical garbagecheap USB sticks are either nand or emmc, with single chip controller
06:06:34dongsdont see why they would complicate it any more by adding extra shit
06:22:49dongsFlash ID code: 45C79432 - SanDisk SDTNNMAHSM-004G - 4CE/Single Channel [MLC-8K] -
06:22:52dongsaccroding to google
06:22:56dongsits standard nand.. hmm
06:23:24dongsi guess i gotta figure out how to get dram setup and load rockbox there.
06:33:26SaratogaSo the SD logic is entirely on the ams chip?
06:37:08dongsi dont know why EXTRA lines are connected on the nand side, but if you ignore those the chip IS accessible as standard x16 nand, at least electrically
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07:05:52freesoftwarehow's it goin?
07:06:18freesoftwarei guess sandisk made that nand so it could be used in literally whatever
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10:10:00dongsi can get soem 8gb nand for around $6 or so next year
10:10:20dongsbut i gotta get this shit booting first
10:10:37dongsis github rockbox mirror current?
10:11:05dongshm last commit 2014..
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10:36:13 Join pamaury [0] (~pamaury@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
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10:55:27dongswhere are IDE files for rokcbox firmware?
10:55:36dongsso i can crossreferenc code/variables/etc
10:58:07pamaurywe don't use any IDE
10:59:21dongsso how do you uh.. navigate the souirce/
10:59:51dongspamaury: did you see my current blogging about deadsansa and figuring out if I can swap a generic nand flash into its place
11:00:05pamauryyou use headers
11:00:50pamaurydongs: I read the logs quickly but I don't know much about sansas
11:00:57dongsah okay.
11:01:07pamauryafaik, sansas use an sd+nand chip
11:01:22dongswell, i spent last 24 hours checking that its most likely not the case.
11:01:47dongsif there's a nand->sd translation layer, its in the SoC and not on the flash chip.
11:02:10pamauryreally? odd
11:02:27dongssame chips are also in USB flash drives
11:02:33 Join Strife89 [0] (
11:02:48dongsand people have loaded htem into standard nand flash dumping devices and they have chip ID and everything liek stanard nand.
11:03:05dongsand the fact that pinout for it mostly matches (minus extra signasl on pins that should be NC), etc.
11:03:34dongsnow its MAYBE possible that they put a 1bit SDIO interface on those NC pins, but that would be pretty unlikley as well as pointless, since they already routed and hooked up all of nand x16 connections as wel.
11:04:11pamaurythen I guess you can try to swap it with a generic nand and see what happens, the small problem is that you have to make sure the sd->nand layer will recognize it
11:04:29pamauryit may be using nand ids, or some semi-standard commands to get flash info
11:04:38dongsright. thats where i'm at now. its swapped with a 512meg part, its not doing (much), so I need to load some stuff up that maybe at least pokes SD and try to see if it works or not
11:04:49 Quit Strife1989 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
11:04:59dongsand I'll get a 4gb and 8gb chip sometime next month to try with as well
11:05:23dongsgot jtag connected and I can reset/halt/step the core, but nto finding much info on the memory map and stuff on the clip+
11:05:31pamauryIsn't there a jtag and/or a special usb mode where you upload a file and it runs?
11:05:39dongsjtag works fine
11:05:54dongsUSB shows up as 31meg thing but reading back doesnt work = zeros, so its probly not getting written.
11:06:19dongsif I knew memory map i could at least load hello world into it that does some stuff and poke sd controlelr registers etc
11:06:26dongsto see if I can get some info of the new "512meg" flash.
11:06:48pamaurythe memory layout should be partly documented in target/arm/as3525/ and also in the as3525 datasheet (which partly applies to amsv2)
11:07:04dongsok, lds thats better. lemme look for that
11:07:07pamauryyou can google "as3525 datasheet"
11:08:33dongsyeah when i looked at t hat, IRAM wasn't where it said it was (i have clip+).
11:08:35dongsgonna look again
11:09:42dongsah i havent tried at c100000. time to hook it up again and check
11:09:45pamauryalso look at as3525.h and as3525v2.h
11:10:33pamauryin rockbox we use the mmu to remap the iram iirc
11:10:51pamaurythere might also be some magic bits that move/remap the iram
11:11:55dongsyeah on reset 0x0 is ROM, since i cant modify it.
11:13:20pamauryyou might want to look at as3525/memory-init.S also and I think I have a ROM dump with some analysis. It's fairly common to have a ROM disable/remap bit
11:14:49dongshey cool
11:14:52pamauryif you look in system-as3525.c, there is a bit called CGU_ROM_ENABLE
11:14:55dongsram at c10000000 does work
11:16:04pamauryalso if you look at page 190 of the as3525 datasheet
11:16:23pamauryyou'll see that address 0 has three overlapping regions: ROM, ExtMemIF and RAM
11:16:24dongsyea im there right now
11:16:34pamaurydepending on the Remap and IntBoolSel
11:16:43dongsk, i can put code into c1000000, so i could probly go from there
11:17:14pamauryExtMemIF you be there if you boot from NAND I guess. And Remap is in CCU_MEMMAP
11:17:34pamaury(assuming it applies to amsv2)
11:17:52pamaury(page 116)
11:18:32pamauryso something like
11:18:32pamaury*(unsigned long *)0x0xC8100008 |= 2
11:19:02dongsits 2 now
11:19:12dongsccu_memmap is the register that controls remap?
11:21:08pamauryyou mean it was already 2 or you changed it to 2 ?
11:21:21dongswas at 2
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11:25:01pamaurygive me a sec, I'll just have a quick look at the rom dump I have, it must remap the iram I think
11:25:38dongsafter reset, PC is at 0 and it starts tehre.
11:27:08pamaurythe very first thing the ROM does is to setup the mmu and it uses nonstandard bits
11:27:24pamaurysorry, it disables the mmu my bad
11:28:30pamauryactually the first thing it does is to jump at 0x80000000
11:28:50dongsthat seems to match with what im seeing
11:29:01dongsif i let it boot, it gets stuck in endless loop around 80004xxx or so
11:29:08dongsshortly after
11:29:22dongso yeah
11:29:33dongsjumps to 80000D1C
11:29:44pamaurytry to write 1 to CCU_REMAP
11:29:51pamaurythat's what the ROM does for some reason
11:30:01dongsto C8100008 ?
11:30:29dongsits '3' now.
11:30:39dongsram is at 0 now
11:30:51dongswith my 0xDEADF00D still present
11:30:51pamauryso ram is working now ?
11:30:56dongsat 0, yes
11:31:09dongsbefore it was at c1000000
11:31:20pamauryout of curiousity, can you try to see what is at 0x81000000 ?
11:31:34dongsalias of ram :)
11:31:52pamauryah yeah the datasheet it's also an alias
11:31:53dongssame deadf00d stuff.
11:32:03pamaurygood, so you found the ram remap bit
11:32:35dongsnow can i load some bit of rockbox into that 0-ram and make it do something? :)
11:32:42dongssome bootloader part maybe?
11:32:50pamauryyou want to load the bootloader
11:33:33pamauryalthough I have to say I don't know if you can plain load the .bin file produced by the compilation or if you need to patch the OF and load the patched thing
11:33:55dongsOF is liek 15megs tho
11:33:58dongswhich part is bootloader
11:34:12dongsi probably have both patched and normal version
11:34:53fIorzpamaury: thx for the hint about the FM clock, BTW, it's indeed clocked by the 32 KiHz RTC crystal, and that one was ~ 0.4 % lower than what it should be, swapped it for a non-defective part, and stations are where they belong now, and stereo sounds acceptable as well :-)
11:37:14pamaurydongs: I don't know much about boot process, my guess is that the entire OF is flash to nand but the first N kB are the the bootloader and are loaded to RAM, and then it loads everything else. There must be some info on the wiki or in the code
11:37:32dongsgonna poke around that for a bit
11:37:33pamauryin rbutil/mkamsboot for example?
11:37:53pamauryI know we use a decompressor
11:37:58pamaurybecause of the size
11:38:03dongsoh hm
11:38:19pamauryI think we take OF bootloader + rockbox bootloader, and compress them to squeeze them in the required space
11:38:40dongsah theres some comments inside mkamsboot
11:39:26pamauryif you look at mkamsboot/dualboot/dualboot.S
11:39:57pamauryyou'll see that it enables peripherals to read a key, then select either ucl compressord rb or of
11:40:03freesoftwaredo you think a 128GB chip will work?
11:40:06pamaurythen decompress and run
11:40:34pamauryso my guess is that if you compile a rockbox bootloader for your device (clip+ ?), take the resulting bootloader.bin file and upload it at 0, it should work
11:41:02pamauryfreesoftware: I'm missing some context here
11:41:14dongsfreesoftware: havent seen any that ican actualyl buy in tsop48
11:42:14freesoftwaredongs build a BGA->TSOP board
11:43:48dongspamaury: doesnt rokcboxutility pull bootloader.bin from somewehre?
11:47:32pamaurydongs: it pulls a scrambled version yes, give me a minute
11:47:50pamaurywhich device do you have ?
11:48:30pamaurythis is NOT the raw binary, it has a small header (8 bytes). You need to remove the header because uploading that to the device
11:49:10dongshm that looks like it might actually work
11:49:17dongsi see short jump offset to 0
11:49:19dongsok lets see
11:51:01dongshmm no, that doenst look right
11:51:09freesoftwarei hope things will be easier for me when my flash dies
11:51:13dongsks like it might actually work
11:51:17dongs00000000: 00 00 EA 20 RSCCS R10, R0
11:51:25dongsfirst instruciton is this? thats wrong
11:51:31dongsshould be some kinda vector table or something at start i guess
11:51:44freesoftwareprobably in like 2 years because chinese and database refreshes
11:52:34pamaurydongs: give me a minute, I might have been wrong about the header then
11:52:58dongslemme load this up in real debugger and see if tehres better asm nearby
11:54:02dongshm nope it all looks pretty shit, wonder if header was less than 8 bytes
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11:54:49pamauryno, the first 4 bytes are a checksum
11:55:03pamaurythe next 4 bytes are a string "cli+"
11:55:17dongsand next 3 bytes are useless too
11:55:18pamauryfor me it looks ok
11:55:23dongsEA 20 00 00 looks like maybe valid arm
11:55:39dongsoh oops
11:55:39pamauryit's a valid jump
11:56:24dongsnice, jtag died
11:56:28dongsso at least getting somewhere :)
11:56:31dongsit powered off
11:56:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:58:11pamauryit is possible that the code expects some init done by the rom
11:58:34dongstime to try gain
12:01:06dongshmm no
12:01:12dongs1st jump goes to crap code
12:02:45dongspamaury: 1st code jumps to 0x4001c, yeah
12:03:02dongsbut there is just trash, ANSDEQ/0 filled shit
12:03:07pamaurydongs: it jumps to 0X20
12:03:16pamauryat least that what I see when I disassemble the file
12:03:47dongsfrom waht offset?
12:03:57dongsyou mean minus the header?
12:06:53dongsok, yeah.
12:06:59dongsas soon as i jump and run that, it powers off.
12:07:20pamaurycan you step through the code ?
12:07:49dongsnot until power off part tho.. only tried few instructions. trying to figure out how to make it properly load in debugger and not just cli stepping
12:08:46pamaurythe first executed instructions should be:
12:08:46pamauryb 0x20
12:08:46pamaurymsr CPSR_c, #211 ; 0xd3
12:08:46DBUGEnqueued KICK pamaury
12:08:46pamaurybl 0x7378
12:09:11CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 23 hours and 30 minutes at the last flood
12:09:11*pamaury disappears for an hour
12:09:26dongsill step it until it powers off :)
12:31:41dongshmm power consumption reduced by 10mA
12:50:03 Quit igitoor (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
12:52:14pamaurydongs: did you find out when it powers of f?
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13:04:58dongsno im still steeping to there
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13:09:12shmapppl what happen to the forums?
13:09:35shmapI tried to load
13:09:42shmapdoesnt work...
13:09:49dongsprobly dead, it was dead around same time yesterday too
13:10:07__builtinthey've been intermittent lately
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13:11:23shmapI really need an entry a friend of mine put there.... there were some good answers that he needs now...
13:11:59shmapdoesnt work
13:12:24__builtin[WEB]google cacheļ¼Ÿ
13:13:33shmaploads for hours
13:13:40dongsclick "text only link"
13:13:45dongson google cache page.
13:14:40shmapplease send me the link to google cahce
13:14:50dongs < shmap> loads for hours
13:14:55shmapand btw how to change nickname w/o relogging
13:14:56dongsi presumed you had that link
13:15:14__builtin[WEB]use /nick
13:15:29dongscache looks perfectly fine for me
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13:15:45dongsloads instantly
13:16:05dongsmy Clip Zip freezes at "boot 4.0" in rockbox, and shows green screen when trying to load OF. I cant connect to pc, cause neither of the firmwares (not the sansa, nor the rockbox) boot up. what can I do?
13:16:10dongsClip zip, 4GB internal, tried anything with and without mSD card.
13:16:32dongspamaury: weird. now if i step it doesnt power off immediately
13:16:51shmap_the_mapcan u give me a link?
13:16:51dongsbut doenst do much either
13:17:44*__builtin[WEB] has an idea
13:18:23__builtin[WEB]how does active noise cancellation sound to you guys?
13:18:24dongspamaury: now its endless cycling in 0x34 or so
13:18:48dongsi suopose i should try building this, then try to match stepping elf w/source vs the stuff thats loaded
13:18:54dongsso I can at least follow to what is being done
13:19:11shmap_the_mapdongs how to make it load text only?
13:19:26dongstop left corner, say s"text only version'
13:19:47dongsit looks like ass, but readable even if original site is down.
13:19:49pamaurydongs: 0x34 is the copy loop I think
13:19:59dongswell, its spending way too long in there anyway
13:20:11dongsill let it run then :p
13:20:11pamauryerr sorry
13:20:17pamauryI was looking at the wrong file :-p
13:20:30dongsya 34 looks useless
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13:20:48pamauryI think it's the IBSS clearing loop
13:21:06pamauryI would need to rebuild it to get a map of symbols to be sure
13:21:24 Quit mutnai (Client Quit)
13:21:32dongsat any rate its been there way longer than it should have been
13:21:39dongsand power consumptiuon up 20mA while its looping there
13:22:06dongsi think im gonna hve to get build stuff running and get matching .elf for the bootloader
13:22:12dongsto have some hope of debugging it properly
13:22:18pamauryyou can look in target/arm/crt0.S
13:22:31pamauryI think that's what it's stuck in, since that's the very early init
13:22:47pamaurydo you have a cross compiler?
13:27:02shmap_the_mapwhat device are u guys talking about
13:30:47dongspamaury: no, i mean, it went through lots of other stuff
13:30:54dongsthen goes to get stuck in there
13:31:14dongsHEY HEY HEY
13:31:18dongsi have plug usb cable
13:31:22dongsin rockbox font :D:D:D
13:31:50dongswhat should I do~
13:32:25dongsdoes that mean rockbox USB stack is gonna work?
13:33:59dongspamaury: tell me what to do. I have "Plug USB cable" in center of screen.
13:34:25dongsi think my previous poweroff might have been due to current limiting on the psu
13:34:28dongsi set it to only 100mA
13:34:38dongsi didnt consider it might jump above during boot
13:35:06dongsnow its drawing 77mA at that usb screen
13:36:03dongsbootloader USB mode!
13:36:58dongs.. bootloader USB drive came up as 1335.84 gigabytes
13:38:20freesoftwarenow shove all your data on it, no one will ever find it
13:38:27freesoftwareperfect security
13:38:54dongsthats further than I got on this before so it is progress
13:39:25 Quit __builtin[WEB] (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
13:39:51freesoftwaremaybe it's controller limit?
13:39:59dongsthats good news
13:40:10dongsi just need to attach a couple ssd960pros to it
13:40:37freesoftwarethat's pcie
13:41:10 Quit shmap_the_map (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
13:41:17dongsno, thats nvme
13:41:24dongs(there's actually a difference, too)
13:41:29freesoftwareyeah but interface is pcie
13:42:40freesoftwarealso the 950pro goes up to 100C during operation so watch out
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13:51:27shnatotChampange shower
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13:56:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:04:27natanelhopeople can you help me?
14:04:42natanelhomy clip zip wont boot up...
14:05:04dongssounds like youve got the same problem I'm solving now :p
14:05:16natanelhowut :-<
14:05:31natanelholoops in "boot 4.0"
14:05:49natanelhogreen screen when trying to boot of
14:06:18natanelhoand makes headaches to my pc
14:08:37natanelhotried to connect to usb while holding left, still green screen. connect usb while center is pressed, in my linux pc and it shows up on the left, "3.9 gb media device" and doesnt responds when clicking on it.
14:09:04natanelhoalso it that state it doesnt show anything on the clips' screen
14:09:18natanelho#dongs what should I do?
14:09:43dongsi dont know, im waiting for instructions too
14:09:47dongsmine shows up as 1.3tb media device
14:10:13natanelhoFREE STORAGE? LOL
14:10:35dongs i hope so
14:11:01natanelhoalso clip zip?
14:11:19dongs+ for the "free storage"
14:11:39natanelhoI wouldnt complain in your place
14:11:51natanelhosell it on ebey for tons of cash lol
14:12:23dongsas soon as I get it working without a ratsnest of wires attached to make it boot, yes
14:13:40natanelhoI havent hardmodded mine yet
14:18:01natanelhocan I somehow format my 4gb rockbox player?
14:18:09pamaurydongs: so I take it that you managed to get the full usb drive ?
14:18:46pamauryhowever I *think* that rockbox usb only exposes the user part of the disk, you can't use it to reflash the OF (which you need to to reflash the bootloader)
14:18:55pamauryfor that you might need a custom build
14:19:03dongspamaury: but its showing up as 1.3tb drive
14:19:12dongsi guess because tehre's absolutely no partition/etc info on the flash
14:19:16dongswondering what i should do with it
14:19:28pamaurycan you read/write from/to it ?
14:19:35pamaury(using dd)
14:19:42dongsyeah i considered trying
14:20:32pamauryI think that's the first step
14:20:44pamaurymaking sure the nand works (and persists accross boots)
14:21:00dongstryin to find dd.exe that does raw drives
14:21:10pamauryif it works, we should do a special build to give full access to the storage and reflash the bootloader
14:21:20pamauryare you using windows ?
14:21:46dongsgot it, i had one that does raw devices
14:22:26dongsok, reading = all zers, lemme write some random trash to it
14:22:29dongsand see if i get anything else back
14:23:28dongspamaury: read back is zeros
14:23:31natanelhopamaury can u help me?
14:23:57natanelhomy clip zip wont boot up...
14:23:59dongsi guess ill try back when I get 4gb flash
14:24:10dongs512m is probly not working for ~reasons
14:24:38dongs< dongs> < does that drive serial look like something rockbox would set?
14:24:48pamaurynatanelho: did you try to hold power for 20sec ?
14:24:49dongswhat's it based on i wonder
14:25:30natanelhoit forces shut down
14:25:52pamaurynatanelho: and nothing happens when you press power ? What happens if you plug the usb cable ?
14:26:19dongs*PANIC* mount: 0
14:26:22natanelhoit does *some*thing when I press power button
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14:26:37pamaurydongs: given the wrongly reported size, it is likely the sd to nand layer doesn't like your flash or gets confused
14:26:53natanelhoI loops in "boot 4.0"
14:27:13 Quit dfkt_ (Client Quit)
14:27:26pamauryyou mean it prints boot 4.0 and does nothing ? or it reboots in a loop ?
14:28:01natanelhopamaury: it prints boot 4.0 and does nothing, for really long time
14:28:11natanelholike till the battery drains
14:28:28natanelhoor for a week if left in charger
14:28:39dongspamaury: ok, cool, so it is booting consistently now with just loading image and adjusting memory remap and jumping to pc=0
14:29:00dongspower down was due to current spike and psu limiting it.
14:29:14dongsnow i just have to get new flash into it .
14:29:26dongsand fix bootloader to expose entire flash area (if it works)
14:29:43pamaurydongs: good, so yeah you need a new flash I guess. It's hard to help on this part, this is completely undocumented
14:30:18pamauryto be honest I am really surprised that the FTL is done in the soc, because that would mean either a third hidden process or a very dumb FTL
14:30:38pamauryalso it's not described in the AS3525 manual
14:30:45dongsyep, hardware part I can handle. ill get soem 32 and 64gbit nand in the next few weeks to try out
14:31:07pamaurydongs: what is the part number of the original flash ?
14:31:14dongspamaury: well its just an IP core, i dont know why they would go nand->SD maybe for programming easy purposes? who knows.
14:31:21dongsits.. sec
14:31:26pamaurynatanelho: if you plug usb, do you get a usb driver ?
14:31:31dongsi only have 4gig ones
14:31:42pamaurydongs: SD is *much* easier
14:31:51pamaurydongs: is it from sandisk ?
14:31:55dongsim gonna get MT29F32G08CBADAWP and MT29F64G08CBABAWP
14:32:04natanelhopamaury: no
14:32:08*pamaury pulls his sandisk flash part decoder
14:32:23dongsaccording to internet its 32nm MLC flash.
14:32:36pamaurydongs: did you find the specific datasheet ?
14:32:42dongsnope not at all
14:32:48dongsthe fact that sandisk got bought by WD doenst help
14:32:49pamaurynatanelho: that's a bad sign
14:33:14dongspamaury: he gets USB drive if he holds left or center, down
14:33:26natanelhopamaury: it does show something when I hold center button while connecting the usb to linux
14:34:48pamaurynatanelho: if you hold left on boot (without usb), do you have a working device with the original firmware ?
14:35:09natanelhogreen screen
14:35:19pamaurydongs: is there any other part on the pcb?
14:37:55dongsyou mean?
14:38:59pamaurysome device have a discrete IC that does sd <-> nand
14:39:05dongsah, no
14:39:11dongsclipplus is just that
14:39:18dongsnand, SD socket, and AMS
14:39:45dongsi dont find it particularly TOO crazy that nand would be accessible as SD to firmware.
14:40:02dongshonestly I'd find it more crazy if sandisk did special SDIO-only "flash" ICs that only worked in their hardware
14:40:07dongsthat seems liek a waste of resources
14:40:17natanelhopamaury: when I hold center and plug in usb it shows up on pc as media device, and shows 3.9 gb but then doesnt open
14:40:21pamaurythat's very unusual to have it in the soc though
14:40:42pamaurynatanelho: it seems to suggest a potentially bad flash
14:40:56natanelhopamaury: and that means..?
14:41:04dongsi have the original flash in a socket, but I gotta find my devboard where I can try bringing it up to the point of at least reading nand flash ID byte
14:41:43dongswont happen today
14:42:24dongsanyway, if it returns some ID byte that means its basicalyl standard nand and should be able to be replaced, unless the hardware flash>sd translation layer specifically blacklists devices that arent sandisk
14:42:24pamaurydongs: yeah that would be the ultimate test
14:42:41dongsbut google says it does return an id, etc
14:42:49pamaurynatanelho: that means you device is close to dead unless you swap the flash, something that dongs is trying to do
14:43:15natanelhopamaury: no way to softmod?
14:43:19pamaurydongs: the problem is that there is no real standard to get nand info
14:43:25dongseh, sure tehre is
14:43:31pamaurythe info you get in the last byte is far from being enough
14:43:45dongslike 0x90 for read ID or whatever
14:44:01natanelhoisnt it some problem with installing rockbox wrongly or something?
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14:44:42pamaurythat doesn't give you much info, it only works if you are going to have some very slow FTL
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14:45:21pamaurynatanelho: if you had rockbox installed and previously working, that seems unlikely
14:45:21pamauryalso if you cannot even reach usb mode in the original firmware, you have no way to reflash
14:46:15natanelhoI thought some linux magic code will save me :-<
14:46:25dongspamaury: i donno, readID looks solid for knowing its nand and not some weird shit. cuz if it actually responds to that then its decided.
14:47:23dongsalso, the same 004G IC has been used in USB flash drives
14:47:37pamaurynatanelho: can you pastebin the dmesg output of when you plug it in usb ?
14:48:05natanelhowhat is it? how to get it?
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14:48:59pamaurynatanelho: you are using linux ?
14:49:14natanelhoI have windows too if needed
14:49:39pamauryso plug you device in usb (and holding left), then in a command shell:
14:49:39pamaurydmesg > dmesg.txt
14:49:51pamauryand copy and paste dmesg.txt here:
14:50:07pamaury(and post the url here after that)
14:52:04natanelhodo u mean center key?
14:52:32natanelhocause when holding left it just prints "boot 4.0"
14:52:38pamaurycenter then
14:52:47pamaury(the one that boots the original firmware)
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14:57:25natanelhoplease wait i'll be back in a few minutes
14:59:17dongsthat serial number looks similar to the shit i get
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15:00:09dongsso yeah
15:00:33dongsill get a build environment going so i can step bootloader if needed and also to make adjustments to open entire flash to access
15:01:43dongsgonna try run another set of solder across the flash too just incase i missed a pin
15:01:49dongsthen give up for the day
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15:02:53natanelhoheres another paste
15:03:31natanelhothat one is while holding center button, the previews one is while holding left
15:04:28natanelhopamaury: do I have any hope?
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15:05:42natanelhodongs: incase youre successful, please make a documentation of waht u do
15:06:22dongsnatanelho: it involves things like ..
15:06:40natanelhobecause if you are right, we can solder a huge NAND in place of the 4gb right?
15:07:03dongsnot "huge" . nobody is making tssop nand anymore
15:07:08dongsits all bga for high capacity
15:07:34dongs64gbit is max you can get
15:07:46natanelhoand thats a lot...
15:08:00natanelhowait, megabit or megabyte?
15:08:07dongsso 8gb.
15:08:17dongsi.e. the max that was in sansa clip+
15:08:27natanelhoso sandisk offered the largest possible memory:-<
15:08:46pamaurynatanelho: try running fsck
15:08:52natanelhowhats that
15:08:56pamaurysudo fsck -a /dev/sdc
15:09:03pamauryit will try to fix the file system
15:10:06dongsk. still comes up as 1.3tb after soldering, im 99.999% sure the connections are solid
15:10:15dongswill try again when i get 4/8gib chips.
15:10:21natanelhoI think sdc is my flash drive, which runs the linux
15:10:51natanelhopamaury: will it damage it?
15:11:41pamaurynatanelho: no
15:11:49dongspamaury: i think most interesting would be stepping through bootloader wehre it initializes the SD layer and stuff and see error/return codes there
15:12:15pamaurynatanelho: based on your dmesg output, sdc is the rockbox drive
15:13:13pamaurydongs: rockbox panics on sd error for the internal storage
15:13:28dongsyou mean *PANIC* mount: 0?
15:13:32dongsthats what i get when i remove usb :d
15:13:51dongswhy doent it panic earlier tho when i plug usb in?
15:13:56pamaurythat's normal :-p No you would gte *PANIC* sd init -9
15:13:56pamauryfor example
15:14:20natanelhofsck says "* is missing, cant fix yet" and stil lists a lot of my files, WTF
15:14:20pamaurymount panics because it cannot find a valid filesystem on the driver
15:14:44dongshopefully its just because this ancient 512megabyte nand chip is just junk
15:14:49pamaurynatanelho: did you remove your drive without safely ejecting ?
15:14:51dongsand it will just work(tm) with 8gib
15:15:13natanelhopamaury: maybe a few years ago,
15:15:27natanelhowhen it last worked
15:15:51natanelhoI didnt touch it since, and I dont remember the cause of the problem
15:16:43natanelhopamaury: does it mean its possible to fix it?
15:17:39pamaurynatanelho: if you don't care about the files currently on the device, I would say just reformat
15:17:54natanelhothe command still runs
15:18:05natanelhohow much time will it take?
15:18:16natanelhoI care about them somewhat
15:18:28pamaurynatanelho: ok, then wait until the command finishes
15:18:45pamauryit might take a while, depending on how broken your filesystem is
15:18:50pamauryfsck cannot fix all problems
15:19:01natanelhoestimate? no?
15:19:53natanelhoif its more then 5 hrs I wont bother...
15:21:19natanelhohow bad could removing w/o safely ejecting a usb be for the device?
15:21:24natanelholike, deadly?
15:21:47pamaurynot for the device, but your filesystem may end up corrupted and you may need to reformat, in the worst case
15:25:39natanelhotheres a setting in windows that I might have touched, something along the lines of "make the device able to be removed w/o safely ejecting or use the old method (which is faster?)" AFAIK
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15:27:11natanelhoI remember I messed with it, and it made some harm to me, I dont remember if that was the clip zip or a usb stick that was broken tho...
15:29:01natanelhopamaury: in worst case scenario, how much time will it take to fsck to complete?
15:32:28pamaurynatanelho: no idea, there is no limit
15:36:39natanelhoso how to format it in worst case scenario?
15:38:46freesoftwaretrash it and buy new
15:41:34gevaertsIf fsck takes a long time on a smallish flash device, I'd worry about the flash going bad
15:41:50gevaertsApart from that, mkfs.vfat should do the trick
15:43:01gevaertsAnd then reinstall rockbox of course. The bootloader will still be there
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16:01:27natanelhogevaerts: how much is "long time"?
16:04:35natanelhoso what should I type to format the zip?
16:16:20freesoftwaremkfs.vfat /dev/sdXY
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17:06:11natanelhodoes the clip zip charge the battery while it is connected to a pc in bootloader mod (connecting usb while holding center button
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17:11:14pamaurynatanelho: yes
17:11:26pamaury(I mean I would expect so)
17:14:13natanelhoso I gave up, how to format it?
17:15:19natanelhothe "disks" gui/aplication/whatever doesnt allow me to do it...
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18:33:01natanelho_pamaury: I cant format my device... I tried mkfs, mkfs.vfat, the "disks" and each time I try to access it via any command it says some random error and then the device disapears form the list on the left (ubuntu) and form the list in the "disks" gui...
18:33:08natanelho_what should I do?
18:36:51pamaurynatanelho_: that sounds like your flash is failing
18:36:57pamauryyou can't do much I'm afraid
18:37:41natanelho_but, then, why does it show me "3.9 GB" when connected?
18:39:43 Nick natanelho_ is now known as natanelho (4d8a29a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
18:40:04pamaurybecause it's not completely dead yet, most probably some read/writes are randomly failing, and at some point it will fail completely
18:40:08pamaurythat's what usually happen
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18:52:37 Join Mihail [0] (252d5ec6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
18:53:05Mihailnatanelho_: Remove partition (if you have it) on your player and try create new small partition (10MB) and format it. If it OK, write rockbox directory on it.
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19:08:57natanelhoMihail: how to do it?
19:10:48natanelhoand will 10 mb be enough for this?
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19:12:31Mihailyes, I usually use fdisk but it not user friendly. Probably better try some gui program
19:13:07natanelhowhat should I type in for fdisk?
19:13:18natanelhothe device is /dev/dsc
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19:13:30natanelhoI mean /dev/sdc
19:13:49 Quit alexweissman (Remote host closed the connection)
19:16:23Mihailfdisk /dev/sdc than press 'p' - it show all partition (if you have)
19:18:43natanelhoMichail: what now ?
19:18:59natanelhoMihail: ?
19:19:12Mihaildid you see any partition?
19:21:33Mihailcreate new partition - press 'n'
19:23:15natanelhoFirst sector (2048-7683071)?
19:25:02natanelhoCreated a new partition 1 of type 'Linux' and of size 10 MiB.
19:25:05natanelhonow what?
19:25:06 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507])
19:25:19Mihailpress 'w'
19:25:44natanelhoThe partition table has been altered.
19:25:58natanelho(and its thinking....)
19:26:06Mihailgood, reconnect player
19:26:24natanelhoshouldnt I wait for it to finish?
19:27:10Mihailis ask command?
19:27:27natanelhoI dont think so
19:27:56Mihailand it not return to shell?
19:28:06natanelhoit did
19:28:16Mihailok, reconnect
19:28:17natanelhosorry, didnt understand
19:29:47natanelhoreconected, doesnt seem to pop up
19:30:10Mihailtry format new partition: mkfs.vfat /dev/sdc1 (or what you have)
19:31:54natanelhoNo such file or directory
19:32:13natanelhothink a restart for the pc would help... brb
19:32:31Mihailwhat you have in dmesg after player reconnection?
19:35:53 Join natanelho_ [0] (4d8a29a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
19:36:02natanelho_so where were we?
19:36:33Mihailtry connect it and check what you have in dmesg
19:36:59 Quit natanelho (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
19:37:46natanelho_thats what he says
19:38:41natanelho_the "disks" gui shows one 3.9gb device, I am afraid to click on it to look at it
19:39:13Mihailno partition (sdc1) :( Try again fdisk /dev/sdc
19:43:52Mihailtry remove it all - press 'd'
19:44:34natanelho_Disk /dev/sdc: 3.7 GiB, 3933732864 bytes, 7683072 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: dos Disk identifier: 0x6f20736b
19:45:46Mihailif no more partition in 'p' - try create new one - as we try before
19:47:30 Join alexweissman [0] (
19:49:02natanelho_created one 3.7gb long
19:50:34Mihaildelete it - you need small partition without bad sectors
19:51:50natanelho_Created a new partition 1 of type 'Linux' and of size 19 MiB.
19:52:01Mihailtry 'w'
19:52:18natanelho_The partition table has been altered.
19:52:27natanelho_and it takes its time...
19:52:51Mihailis it return to shell or freeze?
19:53:19natanelho_last time it took a minute or two... ill give it that
19:53:45Mihailbad sign. what you have in dmesg?
19:53:55natanelho_nvm returned to shell
19:55:42 Quit b-f-1 (Remote host closed the connection)
19:56:22Mihailmany usb errors. Try connect with another short usb cable and do all again
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20:05:23natanelho_Command (m for help): p Disk /dev/sdc: 3.7 GiB, 3933732864 bytes, 7683072 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: dos Disk identifier: 0x6f20736b Command (m for help): n Partition type p primary (0 primary, 0 extended, 4 free) e extended (container for logical partitions) Select (default p): p
20:06:34natanelho_this is the output. this time it didnt freeze at all after "w"
20:08:23Mihailgood try mkfs.vfat /dev/sdc1
20:09:08natanelho_done in no time at all
20:09:17Mihailtry mount
20:10:00natanelho_mount: can't find /dev/sdc1 in /etc/fstab
20:10:40Mihailtry full mount command - mount /dev/sdc1 /yourdir
20:11:41natanelho_what in yourdir?
20:12:14Mihailcreate any - it just mount point - /mnt/sdc1 for example
20:13:33Mihailor you already mount to yourdir?
20:14:37natanelho_sudo mount /dev/sdc1 /mnt/rock
20:14:56natanelho_thats what I did and it returned to shell imediatly
20:15:06Mihailgreat ;) try extract rockbox to /mnt/rock
20:15:20natanelho_what files?
20:15:27natanelho_from where?
20:15:33 Quit alexweissman (Remote host closed the connection)
20:15:44natanelho_and will it b enough for plugins and themes?
20:16:02natanelho_(I have 20 mb
20:16:12MihailYou have zip?
20:16:38natanelho_latest build or 3.1.3
20:16:50Mihailmy link better
20:18:33natanelho_thats what I ask
20:18:41natanelho_wut version is it
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20:18:54Mihaillatest build
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20:23:26natanelhonow ubuntu gives some problems :-(
20:23:38natanelhotrying to extract yr zip
20:23:46natanelhoit says "ok"
20:24:08natanelhothen I cant see any new file in the output dir
20:24:57Mihailtry reconnect
20:25:54natanelhocant extract the files u gave me
20:25:59natanelhoinside my pc
20:27:21MihailTry extract it in home user directory
20:28:19natanelhoin the end I used the installer... worked!
20:28:37natanelhowow I really appriciate your help!
20:29:01natanelhothe other pasimists really almost made me give up....
20:30:02natanelhoI installed latest build, with only "rockbox" being selected (no games/themes/fonts)
20:31:22MihailWe have work on special bootloader from sd card for similarcase (,51304.msg237134.html) But now forum is down :(
20:32:30natanelhotry google cache
20:32:43natanelhoI'm looking forward to it!
20:33:03MihailProbably your problem was in bad usb cable and you can try again with full sized partition
20:33:41natanelhoit wasnt the cable, it was the port.
20:34:00natanelhointerestingly everything else works fine on it
20:35:50natanelhohmmm now the servers load me a "database error" page... hmmm it wasnt there 2 hrs ago...
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