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| 00:08:42 | chrisjj | pixelma, according to your comment, 'if Running Time is currently that (1h18m)...'. And I'm saying if that, then no, Top Time will not be set to that. |
| 00:10:24 | chrisjj | I find Top Time is not set to Running Time in either (or any) case. That's on ZEN. Perhaps there are differences across device models, though I'd hope not. |
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| 01:23:11 | chrisjj | jhMikeS: Nice to see the Crossfade short tracks bug is fixed - thanks - but there are now two faults in the Crossfade fadeout. See http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,51605.msg238874.html#msg238874 |
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| 02:27:19 | __builtin | hmm, I have an idea for a new plugin |
| 02:27:25 | __builtin | "cubetimer" |
| 02:28:38 | __builtin | basically it should generate a random rubiks cube shuffle and time your solve |
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| 02:56:31 | chrisjj | s/there are now two faults in the Crossfade fadeout/there are two faults in the Crossfade fadeout/ |
| 02:57:34 | chrisjj | ... 'cos I suspect they were in some sense present already, but unseen whilst the original bug pranged short tracks. |
| 03:00 |
| 03:04:25 | chrisjj | pamaury, your 'on reset lose everything' is not reproduced here. I don't lose the Top Time change that shows after entering the Main Menu. |
| 03:08:16 | chrisjj | Given that Running Time updates continuously, I can't see why Top Time isn't coded likewise. This would deliver the expectation of pixelma and I think most users, and remedy the loss on reset. |
| 03:14:19 | __builtin | you're free to submit a patch that produces your expected behavior |
| 03:14:37 | __builtin | if you don't, nobody else will |
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| 03:22:22 | chrisjj | pamaury: cd8b33327_nowdt in test now. |
| 03:37:24 | __builtin | there we go, g#1509 |
| 03:37:28 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #1509 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1509 : Rubik's Cube helper plugin (WIP) by Franklin Wei |
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| 04:17:37 | Bilgus | __builtin g#1417 is ready |
| 04:17:40 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #1417 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1417 : Selective Backlight/Advanced Softlock - Selective actions based on context by William Wilgus |
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| 09:43:04 | pamaury | chrisjj: then submit a patch, nobody cares about saving state in case of reset, there is no expectation |
| 09:43:39 | pamaury | saving running time would mean writin something to disk every second, that's clearly a bad diea |
| 09:43:43 | pamaury | *idea |
| 09:49:15 | TorC | I think most people don't really care much about that feature anyway. I, for one, only vaguely knew about it, or what it meant - though I did have a clip+ once list (IIRC) one hundred forty some hours current runtime. Found it amusing, didn't think anything more of it. |
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| 10:08:09 | pixelma | I still don't understand what he thinks is wrong, or what he *now* thinks it's wrong .Reading the first description sounds as if it is exactly working as expected (provided 1h19min vs. 1h18min was a typo or read wrong) and as he maintains he expected (later). |
| 10:08:24 | wodz | parmaury: (log) You should push your mips/xburst changes instead of repeatedly rebasing on gerrit :-) |
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| 11:03:39 | pamaury | wodz: yes I know but one thing is that some of the jz hwstub code depends on register description that I incrementally change |
| 11:04:06 | pamaury | Also there were some conflicts between master and this work |
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| 11:04:25 | wodz | thats bad for master :P |
| 11:05:23 | pamaury | But yeah I'd like to push at least the mips/hwstub/jzstuff |
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| 11:05:54 | pamaury | by the way, I updated your mips toolchain path to not build info, it doesn't work, like on other toolchains |
| 11:07:40 | * | wodz : parse error |
| 11:08:45 | pamaury | the mips toolchain doesn't compile on debian, so I added MAKEINFO=missing |
| 11:08:58 | pamaury | (I mean the updatded mips toolchain on gerrit) |
| 11:09:42 | wodz | Its long time I tried compiling this toolchain. |
| 11:10:28 | * | gevaerts doesn't remember ever *not* having problems with info when playing with toolchains |
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| 12:06:28 | chrisjj | pamaury, the expectation to which I refer is pixelma's [16:39] - that a reset of Top Time will set it to Running Time. I think this is shared by most users of the feature. |
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| 12:06:50 | chrisjj | And that's not what currently happens, at least here on ZEN. |
| 12:08:01 | pamaury | chrisjj: I already explained why what you are saying is wron |
| 12:08:02 | pamaury | g |
| 12:08:42 | pamaury | Reset top time => top time = 0, quit system menu => Top time is updated with runtime time. At least that's how it happens on the fuze+ for example. |
| 12:08:53 | pamaury | and in any case this is very very very very very minor detail |
| 12:09:31 | pamaury | so won't chrisjj-fix unless you submit a patch |
| 12:09:40 | chrisjj | pamaury, you didn't explain why what I said was wrong. You explained how it works. We agree in how it works. |
| 12:12:05 | chrisjj | Yes, resetting Top Time sets it to zero. And yes, this persist only if you return to the main menu. I'm suggesting, as did pixelma, that resetting Top Time should set it Running Time. I'm also suggesting that it persis when set, rather than require a secret and undocumented switch of menu to make it persist. |
| 12:13:03 | gevaerts | Patches welcome |
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| 12:18:56 | chrisjj | Plus recall that returning to the main menu isn't itself enough to persist a change. I.e. if Running Time and Top Time show 28m, I reset both, go to Main Menu, recall them and find them both at 0, then reset the device and recall them, I find both have returned to 28m. |
| 12:19:36 | * | gevaerts is more annoyed by the fact that audio stops playing when he resets the device |
| 12:19:41 | gevaerts | Why isn't *that* fixed? |
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| 12:24:52 | chrisjj | Workaround: power-off the device. Which is not possible on an externally powered ZEN (AFAICT) since it it fails to respond to a power-button press on recent builds. |
| 12:25:46 | gevaerts | The workaround for hard-resetting devices is either *not* hard-resetting devices, or replacing the user |
| 12:28:23 | chrisjj | ...or fixing the RB builds that are doing forced hard resets. |
| 12:30:09 | chrisjj | pamaury, overnight test suggests battery_bench.txt is exonerated on BSoPO. |
| 12:34:18 | chrisjj | Also, (only one run so far) that nowdt works as expected. Playing that would have given a BSoPS instead gave a black screen etc. with no response to power key. |
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| 13:05:38 | pamaury | chrisjj: ZEN cannot power down when externally powered |
| 13:05:52 | pamaury | or rather it can but it would boot up again immediately |
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| 13:06:13 | pamaury | so power button does not 'fail' to respond, it's just disabled |
| 13:06:15 | chrisjj | It can?? How? |
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| 13:08:16 | pamaury | I mean, you could tell the hardware to power down when usb is plugged, it would power down and then power up immediately, that's why I disabled it. So currently, rockbox will/should not let you power down when plugged |
| 13:10:52 | chrisjj | Meaning you can't wait for power-key press? As does the OF? |
| 13:11:44 | pamaury_ | not sure what you mean |
| 13:12:58 | chrisjj | You said 'it would power down and then power up immediately'. That's presumably because power-up doesn't wait for a power key press. On the OF, it does. |
| 13:13:46 | wodz | chrisjj: you don't get it. External connected usb forces device to bootup. |
| 13:15:19 | pamaury_ | If my memory serves, the OF will display a charging screen |
| 13:15:44 | pamaury_ | and even if it doesn't, it's going to fake power down by actually powering up and sleeping |
| 13:15:54 | pamaury_ | thus I don't see the point, it's not a real power down |
| 13:16:26 | chrisjj | Perhaps you're unaware the 'fail' happens on a charger. |
| 13:16:55 | pamaury_ | chrisjj: ? |
| 13:17:53 | chrisjj | My [12:16] was regarding wodz' comment about External connected usb. |
| 13:18:23 | pamaury_ | I don't see what 'fail' you are referring to and I don't see what's special about a charger |
| 13:18:51 | wodz | chrisjj: I assure you I pretty good know how devices work |
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| 13:21:14 | chrisjj | pamaury, the 'fail' is the one you responded on in [12:06]. And yes there's nothing special about the charger. The issue applies equally with charger and USB to PC. |
| 13:21:52 | pamaury_ | chrisjj: ok so let's be VERY clear: 1) this is not a fail/issue, I told you it's done on purpose 2) in my book, USB and charger == power, so they are the same |
| 13:23:15 | chrisjj | So is there any way I can 'could tell the hardware to power down when usb is plugged' (charger or PC)? |
| 13:24:15 | gevaerts | Can you read? |
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| 13:26:25 | * | wodz felt off his chair |
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| 13:31:44 | * | chrisjj rereads pamaury comments |
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| 13:31:54 | * | chrisjj checks for Rockbox Quit/Exit/Shutdown command... in case he overlooked it. Nope. |
| 13:32:47 | pamaury_ | chrisjj: I'm sorry but if you can't read we can't help you. I said it can disabled, disabled implies not possible. |
| 13:32:55 | pamaury_ | *it is disabled |
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| 13:34:00 | chrisjj | Got you. So instead of disabling it, why not make it work - with power-key press doing the power-on? Just like the OF? |
| 13:34:47 | gevaerts | THE HARDWARE CAN NOT BE POWERED OFF IF THERE IS EXTERNAL POWER |
| 13:35:12 | pamaury_ | because I don't see any use for it. As I explained, the hardware cannot be powered, it would be a fake power off, that's stupid and useless |
| 13:35:13 | chrisjj | Did you try it on OF?? |
| 13:35:16 | gevaerts | One more question about this and someone might be put on quiet |
| 13:36:02 | pamaury_ | chrisjj: as I explained, for the third time, this is a fake power down, you need to power-up to charge anyway. Explain to me what is the point of displaying a back screen to the user so he think the device is powered down when it's not |
| 13:36:04 | chrisjj | It would be the same power-off state as the OF. |
| 13:36:19 | pamaury_ | And ? |
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| 13:37:13 | pamaury_ | Rockbox is not emulating the OF, if the OF does something stupid, we have no obligation to do it as well |
| 13:37:29 | chrisjj | One point of going to power-off is to shutdown RB (getting all those little unsaved working variables like Top Time saved), and so I can restart it afresh. |
| 13:37:50 | chrisjj | (Wordaround: go to internal power, press power key, return to external power.) |
| 13:37:54 | pamaury_ | that must be the most stupid statement I've ever heard |
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| 13:38:52 | gevaerts | You mean open the device, cut through the USB power line, press power key, solder line back, close device? |
| 13:38:54 | chrisjj | I don't see what's stupid about the power key doing what it says regardless of power source, but I accept you do. Fair enough. |
| 13:38:59 | gevaerts | Sounds a bit complicated, don't you think |
| 13:39:00 | wodz | chrisjj: Jesus Christ, just stop. |
| 13:39:36 | chrisjj | pamaury, can you suggest any way I can shutdown RB on external power? |
| 13:39:52 | pamaury_ | remove external power, power down |
| 13:39:54 | pamaury_ | problem fixed |
| 13:40:16 | chrisjj | You missed the 'on external power'. So I'll take that as a No. Thanks. |
| 13:40:33 | pamaury_ | I know it's incredibly difficult to remove a usb cable |
| 13:40:54 | pamaury_ | rockbox works for blind people but not people why arms |
| 13:40:56 | pamaury_ | *without arms |
| 13:41:17 | gevaerts | Or brains |
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| 13:43:01 | pamaury_ | wodz: ping |
| 13:43:26 | chrisjj | BTW, re 'you need to power-up to charge anyway', no I don't. I just need to plug in the charger. No need to press the power key. |
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| 13:44:09 | pamaury_ | chrisjj: sigh, you must be stupid. The OF powers up without you knowing, that's why it's stupid |
| 13:45:00 | chrisjj | Sure, *it* goes into charger mode without me saying. That's why*I* don't need to power-up. |
| 13:45:12 | wodz | pamaury: pong |
| 13:45:41 | pamaury_ | chrisjj: and rockbox similarly does that. If you plug a usb cable from power-down state, it powers up and charge. Honestly I don't know what is your problem, only you see a problem there |
| 13:45:50 | Mode | "#rockbox +o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 13:46:18 | chrisjj | Just as it goes into charger mode when *I* press power key to power down. That's the way all devices I know (except RB) work and it doesn't look stupid to me. |
| 13:46:43 | pamaury_ | wodz: I have a problem with mips exceptions, if I read/write to a location that is not backed (for example outside of RAM, or read/write to/from RAM when RAM is disabled), it crashes but does not seem to call any exception vector. I think we discussed that once but I don't remember wy |
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| 13:47:16 | Mode | "#rockbox +q chrisjj!*@*" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) |
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| 13:47:34 | gevaerts | There, should be better |
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| 13:48:52 | wodz | pamaury_: I don't quite understand the problem. exception vector needs to be in unmapped and obviously available location. |
| 13:49:20 | pamaury_ | wodz: I have the exceptions vectors are the right place I think, but some invalid memory access don't seem to trigger any of them |
| 13:49:43 | Mode | "#rockbox -o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 13:50:17 | * | pamaury_ must be doing something wrong |
| 13:50:20 | wodz | pamaury_: read or write? AFAIK mips doesn't track validity of write operation |
| 13:51:10 | wodz | pamaury_: Show the code maybe I spot something obvious |
| 13:51:15 | pamaury_ | write |
| 13:53:26 | wodz | hmm, my statement is nonsense |
| 13:55:47 | pamaury_ | wodz: g#1516 |
| 13:55:48 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #1516 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1516 : random fixes (DON'T PUSH) by Amaury Pouly |
| 13:55:55 | * | wodz reads |
| 13:56:21 | pamaury_ | currently I call die_blinking on exception and that blinks the backlight |
| 13:56:38 | pamaury_ | and if I read from 0x80000000 (RAM) when RAM is not setup, device crashes but doesn't blink |
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| 13:58:03 | pamaury_ | admitedly there is a big of magic with EBASE and TCSM physical address but it works for IRQ (I tested that) |
| 13:58:11 | pamaury_ | (I think) |
| 13:59:41 | wodz | pamaury_: why do you have two times exception handlers allocated in lds - one in KEEP() and then another time without? |
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| 14:00:31 | pamaury_ | wodz: the KEEP is here to tell the linker to keep this section even if it is not referenced, it does not allocate anything |
| 14:01:13 | wodz | I think you only need KEEP() line alone. |
| 14:01:25 | | Quit bittin (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:01:26 | * | pamaury_ checks |
| 14:01:28 | pamaury_ | but I think not |
| 14:02:13 | pamaury_ | hum, you might be right |
| 14:02:52 | * | pamaury_ retries with just one entry |
| 14:03:04 | pamaury_ | but it's not going to fix it I think, I would just duplicate the handler in memory |
| 14:03:31 | wodz | pamaury_: yeah, it is not the cause definitely |
| 14:03:56 | duo8 | pamaury_ how many ports are you on now |
| 14:04:08 | pamaury_ | duo8: Sony NWZ and Fiio X1/X3 |
| 14:04:29 | duo8 | all the linux walkmans? |
| 14:06:37 | wodz | pamaury_: Accessing not setup mappable address should put you in tlb refill exception. I would start from that. |
| 14:06:42 | pamaury_ | all but the very first generation (A820) and some very recent (A30, WM1). |
| 14:07:09 | pamaury_ | wodz: it there a reliable way to trigger an exception ? so I can make sure the code is executed |
| 14:07:33 | pamaury_ | like with irq I can do a soft irq |
| 14:07:53 | wodz | pamaury_: As I said try to access something in mappable area which doesn't have tlb entry |
| 14:07:58 | | Quit paulk-blaze (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:10:03 | | Quit n3m9 () |
| 14:12:10 | wodz | pamaury_: You seem to not touch irq setup (except EBASE). Maybe thats the problem. |
| 14:13:14 | pamaury_ | ok so if I do a syscall right after EBASE, setup the general exception vector is correctly called |
| 14:13:30 | pamaury_ | *s/setup// |
| 14:13:43 | pamaury_ | I disable IRQ I think, I don't use them |
| 14:15:10 | pamaury_ | wodz: re tlb entry, if I don't touch the TLB, any address lower than 0x80000000 should trigger a tlb miss right ? |
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| 14:15:33 | wodz | pamaury_: afaik yes |
| 14:15:49 | pamaury_ | ok it works, if I read at 0x20000000 it triggers the tlb exception |
| 14:16:11 | pamaury_ | but the problem is that if I try to read RAM at its uncached address (0x80000000), I don't get an exception |
| 14:16:18 | pamaury_ | but it crashes |
| 14:17:34 | wodz | pamaury_: uncached alias bypasses tlb altogether. |
| 14:18:03 | pamaury_ | yeah that's the thing, maybe it simply locks up the hardware |
| 14:19:04 | wodz | pamaury_: Having nothing at physical address 0 is very unusual on MIPS (I don't know it is even supported). |
| 14:19:29 | pamaury_ | well there is the RAM |
| 14:19:52 | pamaury_ | but it needs to be init of course |
| 14:20:20 | pamaury_ | the whole business of cache-as-ram and mapping TCSM0 at 0xf4000000 is super weird anyway |
| 14:20:54 | wodz | pamaury_: right. I'd check if it doesn't try to access 0x80000180 on exception (despite having ebase set) |
| 14:21:33 | | Join fishbulb [0] (~fishbulb@unaffiliated/fishbulb) |
| 14:21:43 | fishbulb | hey does anyone here use an H300 still? |
| 14:26:02 | pamaury_ | wodz: I think I found out |
| 14:26:08 | pamaury_ | it triggers an IRQ |
| 14:27:05 | wodz | pamaury_: well it should. bad address is handled in general exception |
| 14:27:25 | pamaury_ | wodz: no I mean it uses vector 0x200 |
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| 14:28:18 | pamaury_ | 0x200 is interrupt special and 0x180 is general exception right ? |
| 14:28:25 | wodz | pamaury_: Are you kidding? What is Cause register then? Did they invert standard mips convention? |
| 14:28:34 | wodz | pamaury_: It can be configured so, yes |
| 14:28:46 | pamaury_ | let me double check my claim |
| 14:29:45 | pamaury_ | ah no, my mistake |
| 14:30:09 | pamaury_ | I used an tlb miss address |
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| 14:30:36 | pamaury_ | so no, no exception is triggered on invalid uncached read |
| 14:35:20 | pamaury_ | at least I can trap tlb miss exception and make hwstub recover but not uncached read/write errors |
| 14:35:41 | fishbulb | hey should I be regularly updating rockbox, and where do I find the updates? |
| 14:36:49 | | Quit Senji (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 14:36:50 | pamaury | fishbulb: since we haven't done a release in 3 years, use dev builds: https://build.rockbox.org/ |
| 14:37:04 | fishbulb | also, this SSD conversion in my h300 means it won't charge through the usb port anymore, the playtime and record time I get is just as long as before, if not longer.. it sometimes crashes, I don't know whether that's to do with a physical hard drive not being there anymore. I don't know what to do about the charging thing |
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| 14:37:57 | fishbulb | the outer case is metal and plastic so I can't hack like a usb lipo charging module into the case, plus I don't hvae any spares |
| 14:38:16 | pamaury | fishbulb: I no nothing about it but a lot of people who trying HDD->SDD conversion for ipods run into many problems |
| 14:38:58 | wodz | pamaury: I think I have my atj target with me so I can check. Describe exactly how do you test. simpy DEV.read32(something uncached and invalid) from hwstub? |
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| 14:39:12 | fishbulb | it plays and records fine, as far as I can tell the battery life is at least the same |
| 14:39:24 | pamaury | wodz: yeah, I have DEV.read32(0x80000000) |
| 14:39:38 | pamaury | on atj maybe you want to use another address that you know is invalid |
| 14:39:50 | fishbulb | it's hard to tell without doing something like play a FLAC until the battery goes flat through headphones |
| 14:41:39 | wodz | pamaury: I think I can run hwstub without configuring SDRAM so this should be equivalent. |
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| 14:43:30 | pamaury | wodz: I think atj doesn't implement read/write recovery currently, but with the patch I posted, you can jump to the recovery function in ams/mips/system.S and it works (at least on jz) |
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| 14:46:46 | wodz | pamaury: I am pretty sure I implemented recovery from invalid read/write. Reading sources seems to support this claim. |
| 14:48:32 | pamaury | wodz: then maybe I stole your code and put it in system.S ;) |
| 14:48:58 | | Quit paulk-blaze (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:49:38 | pamaury | wodz: ah you are right, atj's ctr0.S implements recovery by copy-pasting in each handler. I simply turned that into a proper function |
| 14:50:58 | | Quit _mt_ (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 14:52:01 | wodz | pamaury: Ah, yes. I decided that since the space is not available to anything else I'll skip function call :P |
| 14:53:06 | pamaury | yeah that's a good point actually |
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| 14:53:14 | pamaury | it would be better to turn it into a macro |
| 14:53:46 | wodz | pamaury: lua:1: fail to read32 @ 0x8fffffff |
| 14:54:06 | pamaury | wodz: can you do any operation after that ? or is the stub dead ? |
| 14:54:21 | wodz | pamaury: works after that |
| 14:54:51 | pamaury | hum |
| 14:55:14 | pamaury | I'll try with RAM enabled and vectors at 0x80000000 see if it makes a difference |
| 14:55:17 | wodz | pamaury: However read from invalid addresses but with proper alignment doesn't fail. It just returns something. |
| 14:56:49 | wodz | pamaury: write is also successful but does not stick. |
| 14:57:29 | pamaury | ok, that needs more investigation on jz |
| 14:57:43 | wodz | pamaury: I mean I didn't initialized sdram controller and reading and writing to 0x80000000 doesn't raise exception |
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| 15:36:43 | petur | fishbulb: IIRC the h300 doesn´t charge over USB, only the barrel powerconnector. And battery life may not change much as the HDD is put to sleep most of the time |
| 15:36:57 | fishbulb | it always charged over the usb |
| 15:37:09 | fishbulb | it goes into "charge mode" but the battery doesn't get higher |
| 15:37:29 | fishbulb | I charge it with the DC powersupply and it's done in an hour or so |
| 15:37:32 | petur | then I remember incorrectly |
| 15:37:39 | fishbulb | thanks though |
| 15:39:04 | petur | ah, I see in the wiki it does indeed support that |
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| 19:42:07 | Mode | "#rockbox +o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 19:42:12 | Mode | "#rockbox -q chrisjj!*@*" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) |
| 19:42:13 | Mode | "#rockbox -o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
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| 20:21:28 | Yogurt | hey all |
| 20:30:44 | Yogurt | I see E380 support has been pushed |
| 20:30:50 | Yogurt | and update on E580? :) |
| 20:31:30 | lebellium | only one different letter but completely different ports |
| 20:31:43 | lebellium | Rockbox starts on E580 but no sound for now |
| 20:32:16 | Yogurt | cool |
| 20:32:24 | Yogurt | any way I can help the port? |
| 20:34:07 | lebellium | not at the moment. The developer pamaury and me do own the device and can test if needed. We may need users feedback later |
| 20:34:20 | Yogurt | cool |
| 20:34:28 | | Join TheLemonMan [0] (~root@irssi/staff/TheLemonMan) |
| 20:34:32 | Yogurt | any eta on user feedback stage? |
| 20:35:09 | lebellium | nope |
| 20:35:23 | Yogurt | kk, i'll check back in a week or two |
| 20:35:57 | pamaury | Yogurt: best way for a few weeks. Without working audio, it's kind of useless |
| 20:36:33 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: New build round started. Revision a931c76, 255 builds, 14 clients. |
| 20:37:08 | Yogurt | k |
| 20:37:13 | lebellium | pamaury: destination tool spotted and translated on Italien, Spanish, Russian, German and English forums :) |
| 20:37:28 | lebellium | Italian* |
| 20:37:59 | pamaury | oh wow |
| 20:38:02 | pamaury | no pressure |
| 20:38:16 | fishbulb | hi I'm re-housing my iriver h300 into an alloy milled housing I'm making, I'm wondering how hardcore you guys know each player? |
| 20:38:30 | pamaury | lebellium: did they keep the link to the original wiki page at least ? |
| 20:38:51 | pamaury | and the latest version ? |
| 20:39:16 | lebellium | pamaury: head-fi did but some other forums didn't (of course...) http://reproductormp3.net/index.php/topic,26118.msg283305.html?PHPSESSID=c4Aij-ulah0VLDJnOd64I2#msg283305 |
| 20:39:26 | | Quit parchd (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 20:40:14 | pamaury | arg |
| 20:40:15 | lebellium | well, there is a link to the original page |
| 20:40:21 | lebellium | a few posts before |
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| 20:41:07 | lebellium | usually someone posts the original link then someone translate the instructions (but sometimes with a direct download link) |
| 20:41:17 | pamaury | I kind of hoped that people would have the intelligence of giving the source of the documentation, apparently not |
| 20:41:58 | lebellium | well, they do since I found all these forums posts by googling https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWDestTool |
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| 20:42:35 | lebellium | the problem is rather when instructions are translated a few posts later |
| 20:43:03 | fishbulb | like there is a slight hiss over everything, and I've always thought either changing the dac or putting better caps in there or something would get rid of this? if I'm going to rehouse a very old media player into a custom scratch made housing (with line out connectors and stuff like that) and probably a better microphone, I would want to go the extra mile and improve the sound quality, but I don't know exactly how the h300 converts digital to |
| 20:43:03 | fishbulb | audio |
| 20:43:50 | lebellium | replacing a DAC by another model looks challenging :) |
| 20:44:09 | fishbulb | better battery too, but since you guys develop the software that operates this thing, you would know |
| 20:44:48 | fishbulb | looks challenging? what are you looking at? |
| 20:45:38 | lebellium | well, it's not just a hardware matter, you have to change all the code (software) behind! |
| 20:46:03 | fishbulb | oh crap. yeah that's challenging |
| 20:47:35 | lebellium | and I don't think the hiss comes from the DAC |
| 20:47:47 | skapazzo | wasn't there a post somewhere about replacing the caps in a iriver h140? I modded mine to microsd and I remember reading something about it at the time. |
| 20:47:47 | fishbulb | where do you think it comes from then |
| 20:48:10 | skapazzo | and I never had any hisses here or on other iriver players |
| 20:48:17 | fishbulb | I'm not part of that forum and haven't kept up |
| 20:48:18 | lebellium | from the 3.5mm output? |
| 20:48:29 | lebellium | the hiss on H300 is terrible |
| 20:49:03 | fishbulb | the hiss is worse than a phone for example |
| 20:49:08 | fishbulb | but a phone will clip way sooner |
| 20:49:19 | fishbulb | running any headphones |
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| 20:50:34 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: Revision a931c76 result: All green |
| 20:50:54 | fishbulb | lebellium, terrible compared to what else? |
| 20:51:09 | lebellium | fishbulb: to my other 100 players :) |
| 20:51:20 | lebellium | I think it's the worst |
| 20:51:25 | lebellium | IIRC |
| 20:51:34 | lebellium | maybe I should give another try |
| 20:51:44 | fishbulb | why did you say from the 3.5mm output |
| 20:51:52 | fishbulb | there's a line out and a headphones out |
| 20:52:03 | lebellium | I mean from the headphones out |
| 20:52:15 | fishbulb | is the other one any different? |
| 20:52:46 | lebellium | regarding hiss? |
| 20:53:03 | fishbulb | yeah and how it works and stuff |
| 20:53:37 | fishbulb | "and stuff" is a terrible mental tic that makes everything sound like you don't know anything |
| 20:54:01 | lebellium | You can google how a line-out is supposed to work |
| 20:54:10 | lebellium | bah, my H300 won't turn on |
| 20:54:18 | fishbulb | that doesn't help me with the h300 one |
| 20:54:19 | * | lebellium hopes the battery is not dead |
| 20:54:37 | fishbulb | replace that battery :) |
| 20:54:55 | lebellium | I already did in 2011 or 2012 |
| 20:54:59 | lebellium | but since I never use it... |
| 20:55:14 | fishbulb | that might be too long ago, you could plug it in |
| 20:56:08 | fishbulb | so all the code has to be changed to run a different dac? I'm not sure I could do that |
| 20:58:02 | fishbulb | where would the hiss come from? are you just comparing subjectively between the h series, do you know more about the electronics of this thing, or.. |
| 20:58:07 | pamaury | fishbulb: not necessarily, if you put another supported dac |
| 20:59:49 | fishbulb | would that eliminate the hiss? I got a... 70 dollar usb dac and that sounds a lot better |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:00 | fishbulb | but it's for android, or a PC |
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| 21:02:42 | fishbulb | it sounds really good actually considering the price, and I'm sure the build quality housing and other stuff isn't doing it any favours, the stuff done by hand is sometimes what makes middle end high end |
| 21:05:17 | fishbulb | but I still like this media player/recorder enough to house it in a body that will last longer than the insides and has some better stuff, how many media players have an alloy housing with the best connectors etc |
| 21:06:16 | fishbulb | how do I find out which dac it uses and do you mean "supported by rockbox" ? |
| 21:06:20 | | Join _mt_ [0] (~MT@129.59.122.10) |
| 21:08:49 | pamaury | there are PCB scans here apparently: https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IriverInfo |
| 21:09:38 | pamaury | it will only work if the dac is a separate chip of course |
| 21:10:18 | lebellium | hum |
| 21:10:31 | lebellium | I can hear the HDD running but no display |
| 21:10:38 | lebellium | I hope it's no the screen which is dead |
| 21:10:49 | fishbulb | Motorola Coldfire xCF5249 CPU |
| 21:10:56 | fishbulb | is that what converts digital to audio? |
| 21:11:02 | lebellium | no |
| 21:11:07 | lebellium | that's the processor (CPU) |
| 21:11:33 | fishbulb | forums are so annoying, but I should probably join that head-fi one |
| 21:12:19 | pamaury | the config file says it has a UDA1380 |
| 21:12:35 | lebellium | display not dead. The H300 just powered on and says 0% battery :) |
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| 21:13:28 | lebellium | fishbulb: I don't want to be too rude, but if you don't have some basic knowledges about components, it will be very difficult to make all the changes you consider |
| 21:13:39 | lebellium | unless someone does everything for you |
| 21:14:15 | fishbulb | I had this idea last night, I've drawn up a lot of stuff, and I can research |
| 21:15:21 | fishbulb | I don't want to be rude either but I wasn't sure if you were answering the questions based on a working knowledge of the player or just to chime in, sorry I don't know anyone in here, and a forum post said the cpu did the digital to audio conversion |
| 21:16:41 | fishbulb | I think this is pretty specific knowledge though and I've only really started to apply any research |
| 21:19:05 | fishbulb | not many people work on very tiny things at a hardware level |
| 21:20:04 | fishbulb | they just throw them out and get the newest shiniest one :/ |
| 21:21:50 | pamaury | fishbulb: changing the DAC will require a lot of knowledge about electrical circuits, and it's very unlikely you have just remove it and find a chip that has a compatible pinout |
| 21:22:01 | pamaury | it's not impossible but it's going to be hard I think |
| 21:22:47 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@89-74-169-198.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 21:24:21 | fishbulb | but I'm assuming the hiss comes from the dac |
| 21:24:56 | lebellium | I think (might be wrong) that hiss or various background noises come from the way the maker implemented the DAC and the output |
| 21:25:02 | lebellium | not from the DAC itself |
| 21:25:23 | lebellium | that's why several devices sharing the same DAC may have different hiss levels |
| 21:26:40 | pamaury | it could come from anything, poor pcb layout/isolation/power source/jack, probably not from the dac |
| 21:27:00 | wodz | fishbulb: basically the list of already supported dacs in rockbox is: aic3x, ak4537, cs42l55, dac3550a, df1704, mas35xx, pcm1792, tlv320, tsc2100, uda1341, uda1380, wm8731, wm8758, wm8978, wm8751, wm8975, wm8985 |
| 21:27:28 | fishbulb | the output to the amps? I'm really more of a mechanical guy than liek this level of electronics, the custom alloy housing, wiring better connectors, larger battery, that kind of stuff isn't too hard, but if I want to make the project worthwhile it's like I should do something about the hiss because phones etc don't have that, but they will clip at far lower volume levels using large headphones |
| 21:27:55 | wodz | fishbulb: maybe some are only integrated in some soc (I don't know all of them). But usually hiss comes from interference in analog domain *after* dac |
| 21:28:27 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: New build round started. Revision 16a9f84, 255 builds, 14 clients. |
| 21:29:49 | fishbulb | is the h300 one considered decent? |
| 21:31:04 | | Quit idonob_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 21:31:19 | wodz | fishbulb: That depends. Dac parameters are not in pair with good recent chips. |
| 21:31:43 | fishbulb | on par? |
| 21:32:17 | lebellium | it was considered as a (very) good sounding player |
| 21:33:39 | fishbulb | it was, 13 years ago... the hiss is noticable compared to.. for example, plugging this 70 buck "android external dac/amp" into the computer and using that |
| 21:34:23 | lebellium | and don't know if hiss should be part of the sound quality judgment |
| 21:34:28 | fishbulb | so I'm not sure whether it's incrementally gotten worse and just hasn't been noticable |
| 21:34:31 | lebellium | it depends on your IEM |
| 21:34:34 | lebellium | headphone |
| 21:34:50 | fishbulb | I don't like IEMs, I prefer cans |
| 21:38:24 | lebellium | ok so I just tried |
| 21:38:38 | lebellium | the hiss is indeed terrible |
| 21:38:47 | lebellium | with the line-out there no hiss |
| 21:38:52 | lebellium | but that's a line-out... |
| 21:40:48 | pamaury | lebellium: you have a h300 ? |
| 21:40:59 | lebellium | pamaury: yep, H100 too |
| 21:41:11 | wodz | pamaury: I can't find any info if bad unmapped address access raises exception anywhere |
| 21:42:55 | wodz | pamaury: pic32mx (which is m4kc core mcu) has special registers where you can enable exceptions on faulty unmapped access. |
| 21:43:17 | pamaury | wodz: I tried to read See MIPS Run and the R4000 manual but it says nothing except some vague bullshit about bus problem being reported possibly as external interrupt. Which makes little sense, cause the CPU couldn't enter interrupt mode if it's waiting for the intsruction (for read for example) to finish I think, that's why exceptions are special. I suspect on jz it will just hang the cpu |
| 21:44:13 | lebellium | pamaury: I always wanted it. YH-J70 and Cowon X5 only had a 160x128 screen while the H300 has a 220x176 bigger one. And I think it looks beautiful for a brick. I wished I had bought it in 2004. Did some years later though |
| 21:44:46 | wodz | pamaury: seems like 'the mips way' is to always run from mapped address unless you want to be 100% sure you don't generate tlb miss. |
| 21:44:57 | | Part robertd1 |
| 21:45:25 | pamaury | yeah you're right, which makes sense in a way |
| 21:46:11 | skapazzo | fishbulb: have you thought about using the h300 with an external amp? |
| 21:46:40 | wodz | pamaury: It makes little sense in mcu but mips didn't find its way into this segment. PIC32MX is the only exception I know of. |
| 21:46:41 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: Build round completed after 1094 seconds. |
| 21:46:42 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: Revision 16a9f84 result: 5 errors 0 warnings |
| 21:46:42 | pamaury | maybe this is a defect of the h100/h300 ? |
| 21:46:45 | fishbulb | no hiss with the line out? are you sure? |
| 21:47:01 | lebellium | less |
| 21:48:07 | fishbulb | skapazzo, that's a clunky solution, the main thing I want is to rehouse it in a really nice custom alloy case with good connectors more battery and that stuff, but if I just stuck the h300 + external amp inside that enclosure it seems too clunky and ugly a hack to bother with |
| 21:49:32 | fishbulb | I did the ssd conversion, I've kept these things alive and in fairly constant use for years, this is the next and last step |
| 21:50:39 | fishbulb | also I don't want to amplify the hiss anyway |
| 21:51:44 | lebellium | there's much less hiss |
| 21:51:54 | skapazzo | fishbulb: I understand, I've been thinking about upgrading mine to ssd too, I just love that thing. Will you post some pictures of your build somewhere? I always enjoy these mods. |
| 21:52:07 | lebellium | but less hiss amplified may be bad indeed |
| 21:53:25 | lebellium | Oh I have a 2016 rockbox build on it! |
| 21:53:29 | * | lebellium doesn't even remember |
| 21:53:48 | fishbulb | I'm on day one of considering this project, but yeah of course I'll post pictures of it somewhere |
| 21:56:34 | fishbulb | the SSD does seem to mean it won't really charge through the usb port, it sort of just stays at the same level even though it says charging.. I had to try two to get it to work, both second hand, if I had more money and had done more research I think I could have choesn the right drive, they just came out of some scrapped ultrabooks I think. |
| 21:56:35 | lebellium | pamaury: I don't know if it's a "defect" but the H300 is infamous for its hiss. I do think though that it was less a problem in 2004 than nowadays. Back to the time less people had sensitive IEM |
| 21:58:08 | wodz | pamaury: All this makes me think that if mips port takes off we need to run from mapped address to catch bogus access. |
| 21:58:54 | fishbulb | lebellium, I think alloy cases with cool connectors and shit looks cooler, but this still doesn't look bad |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:28 | lebellium | I'll tell you when yours is done :P |
| 22:00:40 | fishbulb | but a cosmetic (and battery/connectors) only change is a fair bit of work if the thing inside doesn't really sound better. I dunno it seems like it needs more to be a worthwhie project |
| 22:00:46 | | Quit michaelni (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:01:13 | lebellium | for sure I will never customize mine. As a collector I need to keep my devices as they originally were. |
| 22:01:38 | pamaury | wodz: that's what I'm planning to do, use a few wired entries to map things |
| 22:01:45 | fishbulb | I've been using mine as my only media player, and have two, so they're both fairly beaten up |
| 22:02:37 | wodz | pamaury: This will not be bullet proof as we need to run in kernel mode so kseg0 access is valid as well. |
| 22:03:29 | pamaury | well it's not bullet proof on arm either anyway |
| 22:03:46 | fishbulb | no money to be a collector. what does a 2016 rockbox build mean? |
| 22:04:09 | fishbulb | is there constant development going on for these things still? |
| 22:05:15 | lebellium | there are new builds almost everytime That doesn't necessarily mean the changes concern the H300 |
| 22:05:37 | fishbulb | ok |
| 22:05:52 | lebellium | but there may be some changes affecting all devices (look what was just commited a few minutes ago) |
| 22:17:54 | | Join michaelni [0] (~michael@213-47-41-20.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) |
| 22:25:35 | fishbulb | I don't know where to look |
| 22:26:47 | | Quit _mt_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 22:36:28 | | Join mutnai [0] (6db91733@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.185.23.51) |
| 22:37:27 | | Nick __builtin is now known as a1 (~xray@rockbox/developer/builtin) |
| 22:37:30 | | Nick a1 is now known as __builtin (~xray@rockbox/developer/builtin) |
| 22:38:01 | | Part __builtin ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.") |
| 22:38:36 | | Nick jhMikeS is now known as PM_ME_YOUR_NICKS (~jethead71@d192-24-173-177.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 22:40:12 | fishbulb | so the h140 is superior hardware? |
| 22:41:17 | fishbulb | screw it I don't have one and I'm invested in this device. where are the latest builds? |
| 22:42:05 | lebellium | the H100 is famous for its optical out |
| 22:42:22 | | Quit petur (Quit: Leaving) |
| 22:42:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:42:36 | lebellium | https://www.rockbox.org/recent.shtml#code |
| 22:42:41 | lebellium | https://build.rockbox.org/ |
| 22:42:43 | | Nick PM_ME_YOUR_NICKS is now known as jhMikeS (~jethead71@d192-24-173-177.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 22:43:14 | fishbulb | I was more wanting to just make the thing I already like MUCH better |
| 22:43:26 | Bilgus | which was a really cool idea in 2001 but I don't think much comes with spdif anymore Toslink? |
| 22:43:29 | | Nick jhMikeS is now known as PM_ME_YOUR_KNICK (~jethead71@d192-24-173-177.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 22:44:10 | | Nick PM_ME_YOUR_KNICK is now known as NickjhMikeS (~jethead71@d192-24-173-177.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 22:44:43 | fishbulb | to transfer it what happens there? |
| 22:45:13 | fishbulb | I mean rockbox, I unzip it over the existing stuff? |
| 22:46:10 | | Join __builtin [0] (~xray@rockbox/developer/builtin) |
| 22:47:19 | lebellium | yes |
| 22:47:27 | fishbulb | cool. |
| 22:47:59 | lebellium | by curiosity, what's your current rockbox version? |
| 22:48:17 | fishbulb | ha. um. I don't know. old |
| 22:48:21 | | Quit Senji (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 22:48:30 | lebellium | you can see it on .rockbox/rockbox-info.txt or on device system settings |
| 22:49:56 | fishbulb | 0f89b04-160628 |
| 22:50:15 | lebellium | okay, it's fairly recent |
| 22:50:25 | lebellium | I don't remember if there is something interesting for H300 since then |
| 22:50:31 | fishbulb | how many months roughly |
| 22:50:47 | gevaerts | 160628 is the build date |
| 22:51:00 | lebellium | June, 28th 2016 |
| 22:51:03 | gevaerts | So that's from the sixth of the sixteenth month of 1928 I believe |
| 22:51:09 | fishbulb | oh cool. that actually coincides roughly when I quit smoking |
| 22:52:09 | fishbulb | fetch me my listening jacket |
| 22:52:46 | fishbulb | I shall be in the auditorium |
| 22:53:21 | * | gevaerts doesn't think much has been going on audio-wise since then, but there has been some game plugin work |
| 22:53:43 | * | __builtin waves |
| 22:55:26 | | Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
| 22:55:51 | lebellium | yes, we can't say it's not worth it to update the build on H300 |
| 22:55:56 | lebellium | __builtin is watching :) |
| 22:56:14 | gevaerts | It all depends on what sort of thing you're interested in |
| 22:56:47 | __builtin | if you're a big fan of one-player puzzle games, update ;) |
| 22:58:25 | __builtin | otherwise most of the work done since then falls under the category of "pamaury" |
| 22:59:15 | * | pamaury plans to push another 15 commits very soon |
| 22:59:22 | __builtin | 50 of the commits in the last 4 weeks are from him ;) |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:21 | lebellium | I think the ratio is the same if you look at the past 2 years? |
| 23:02:34 | Bilgus | __builtin, 1417 is ready |
| 23:02:47 | __builtin | ok, cool |
| 23:02:57 | __builtin | I assume it's been tested? |
| 23:03:44 | Bilgus | in as much as its been up the last month, I did the stuff with the manual last night but feel free to test more if you like |
| 23:04:49 | | Quit mutnai (Quit: Page closed) |
| 23:06:09 | Bilgus | oops needs rebased though |
| 23:06:22 | __builtin | I can do that, I think |
| 23:06:27 | Bilgus | done. |
| 23:07:17 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: New build round started. Revision dc87e9e, 255 builds, 13 clients. |
| 23:07:57 | Bilgus | glad thats done thx |
| 23:08:13 | __builtin | stick around though, from my personal experience something always breaks ;) |
| 23:08:32 | | Join idonob_ [0] (~Owner@199.119.235.248) |
| 23:08:51 | Bilgus | I'm still working on the time selector i'll be heare a good long while |
| 23:16:27 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 23:24:29 | | Join advcomp2019_ [0] (~advcomp20@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) |
| 23:27:43 | | Join advcomp2019__ [0] (~advcomp20@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) |
| 23:27:54 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: Build round completed after 1237 seconds. |
| 23:27:55 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: Revision dc87e9e result: 0 errors 31 warnings |
| 23:27:55 | | Quit advcomp2019 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:28:28 | Bilgus | hmm how do we see warnings? |
| 23:29:00 | __builtin | go to http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi |
| 23:29:40 | pamaury | Bilgus: I would have appreciated some discussion before pushing this commit! |
| 23:29:41 | __builtin | apparently it's because of "misleading indentation" |
| 23:29:56 | Bilgus | ? |
| 23:30:35 | NickjhMikeS | That _is_ a whopper of a commit message. I thought I was bad sometimes. |
| 23:31:06 | | Quit advcomp2019_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 23:31:29 | __builtin | Bilgus: it appears that the line after the "break;" is misleadingly indented |
| 23:32:09 | | Quit Bray90820 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:33:31 | Bilgus | pamaury its been up a month what would you like to discuss? |
| 23:34:43 | pamaury | There were a lot of changes at some point, I wasn't aware that it was done |
| 23:35:04 | | Join Bray90820 [0] (~bray90820@173-25-204-30.client.mchsi.com) |
| 23:35:14 | Bilgus | would you like to revert till you've had a chance to look over it? |
| 23:36:01 | | Quit fIorz (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 23:37:40 | pamaury | personally I don't mind, I'll go through it, but it introduces some potentially controversial functionality, I know [Saint] was not necessarily happy about it. Usually we use the mailing list to send an email before big changes that can affect all targets |
| 23:38:07 | | Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]) |
| 23:39:06 | Bilgus | oh I wasn't aware of the email thing |
| 23:39:35 | Bilgus | I'm pretty sure I addressed the issues [Saint] had with it |
| 23:40:43 | Bilgus | as for the indented line, how do I address that |
| 23:40:53 | __builtin | just remove the indent |
| 23:41:12 | __builtin | and push a patch to gerrit |
| 23:41:40 | Bilgus | ah ok |
| 23:41:42 | __builtin | the nice thing about git is that if enough people don't like it it's not that hard to revert the change ;) |
| 23:42:08 | Bilgus | I hope they do that was a lot of work |
| 23:42:18 | Bilgus | like it that is |
| 23:42:46 | pamaury | __builtin: I like git a lot |
| 23:43:32 | __builtin | the thing I don't like, though, is when I spend more time merging crap than actually doing useful work :( |
| 23:43:36 | pamaury | but every system let you easily revert a change |
| 23:44:15 | __builtin | well, git makes it easier than, say, using CVS and mailing patches around |
| 23:44:26 | pamaury | merging stuff is not fun, but honestly, git makes it easier than cvs, svn or patches |
| 23:44:39 | pamaury | can't say about mercurial or others |
| 23:52:23 | Bilgus | ok misleading indentation fixed |
| 23:53:09 | Bilgus | surprised I didn't catch that as many times as I have compiled this for all targets |
| 23:53:41 | pamaury | Bilgus: I'm quite impressed, no compile error and only one warning |
| 23:54:11 | gevaerts | You're probably using an older compiler |
| 23:54:15 | Bilgus | Thanks it was your script that I altered to test it against all targets though |
| 23:54:24 | gevaerts | That's a fairly new warning |
| 23:55:06 | pamaury | yeah sim builds are the pickiest because of very recent GCC |
| 23:55:44 | Bilgus | gcc version 4.6.3 |
| 23:56:03 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: New build round started. Revision 6103d4d, 255 builds, 13 clients. |
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