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#rockbox log for 2017-01-17

00:03:24 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:08:42chrisjjpixelma, according to your comment, 'if Running Time is currently that (1h18m)...'. And I'm saying if that, then no, Top Time will not be set to that.
00:10:24chrisjjI find Top Time is not set to Running Time in either (or any) case. That's on ZEN. Perhaps there are differences across device models, though I'd hope not.
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00:34:06 Quit ender` (Quit: The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bulls​hit.— Richard Pryor)
00:41:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:01:00 Quit girafe (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:06:29 Quit idonob_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:23:11chrisjjjhMikeS: Nice to see the Crossfade short tracks bug is fixed - thanks - but there are now two faults in the Crossfade fadeout. See http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,51605.msg238874.html#msg238874
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02:27:19__builtinhmm, I have an idea for a new plugin
02:27:25__builtin"cubetimer"
02:28:38__builtinbasically it should generate a random rubiks cube shuffle and time your solve
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02:56:31chrisjjs/there are now two faults in the Crossfade fadeout/there are two faults in the Crossfade fadeout/
02:57:34chrisjj... 'cos I suspect they were in some sense present already, but unseen whilst the original bug pranged short tracks.
03:00
03:04:25chrisjjpamaury, your 'on reset lose everything' is not reproduced here. I don't lose the Top Time change that shows after entering the Main Menu.
03:08:16chrisjjGiven that Running Time updates continuously, I can't see why Top Time isn't coded likewise. This would deliver the expectation of pixelma and I think most users, and remedy the loss on reset.
03:14:19__builtinyou're free to submit a patch that produces your expected behavior
03:14:37__builtinif you don't, nobody else will
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03:22:22chrisjjpamaury: cd8b33327_nowdt in test now.
03:37:24__builtinthere we go, g#1509
03:37:28fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #1509 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1509 : 3Rubik's Cube helper plugin (WIP) by Franklin Wei
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04:17:37Bilgus__builtin g#1417 is ready
04:17:40fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #1417 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1417 : 3Selective Backlight/Advanced Softlock - Selective actions based on context by William Wilgus
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07:44:20parchdmorning
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09:43:04pamaurychrisjj: then submit a patch, nobody cares about saving state in case of reset, there is no expectation
09:43:39pamaurysaving running time would mean writin something to disk every second, that's clearly a bad diea
09:43:43pamaury*idea
09:49:15TorCI think most people don't really care much about that feature anyway. I, for one, only vaguely knew about it, or what it meant - though I did have a clip+ once list (IIRC) one hundred forty some hours current runtime. Found it amusing, didn't think anything more of it.
10:00
10:01:07 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
10:07:36 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@iwl138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl)
10:08:09pixelmaI still don't understand what he thinks is wrong, or what he *now* thinks it's wrong .Reading the first description sounds as if it is exactly working as expected (provided 1h19min vs. 1h18min was a typo or read wrong) and as he maintains he expected (later).
10:08:24wodzparmaury: (log) You should push your mips/xburst changes instead of repeatedly rebasing on gerrit :-)
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11:02:12 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
11:03:39pamaurywodz: yes I know but one thing is that some of the jz hwstub code depends on register description that I incrementally change
11:04:06pamauryAlso there were some conflicts between master and this work
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11:04:25wodzthats bad for master :P
11:05:23pamauryBut yeah I'd like to push at least the mips/hwstub/jzstuff
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11:05:54pamauryby the way, I updated your mips toolchain path to not build info, it doesn't work, like on other toolchains
11:07:40*wodz : parse error
11:08:45pamaurythe mips toolchain doesn't compile on debian, so I added MAKEINFO=missing
11:08:58pamaury(I mean the updatded mips toolchain on gerrit)
11:09:42wodzIts long time I tried compiling this toolchain.
11:10:28*gevaerts doesn't remember ever *not* having problems with info when playing with toolchains
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12:00
12:06:28chrisjjpamaury, the expectation to which I refer is pixelma's [16:39] - that a reset of Top Time will set it to Running Time. I think this is shared by most users of the feature.
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12:06:50chrisjjAnd that's not what currently happens, at least here on ZEN.
12:08:01pamaurychrisjj: I already explained why what you are saying is wron
12:08:02pamauryg
12:08:42pamauryReset top time => top time = 0, quit system menu => Top time is updated with runtime time. At least that's how it happens on the fuze+ for example.
12:08:53pamauryand in any case this is very very very very very minor detail
12:09:31pamauryso won't chrisjj-fix unless you submit a patch
12:09:40chrisjjpamaury, you didn't explain why what I said was wrong. You explained how it works. We agree in how it works.
12:12:05chrisjjYes, resetting Top Time sets it to zero. And yes, this persist only if you return to the main menu. I'm suggesting, as did pixelma, that resetting Top Time should set it Running Time. I'm also suggesting that it persis when set, rather than require a secret and undocumented switch of menu to make it persist.
12:13:03gevaertsPatches welcome
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12:18:56chrisjjPlus recall that returning to the main menu isn't itself enough to persist a change. I.e. if Running Time and Top Time show 28m, I reset both, go to Main Menu, recall them and find them both at 0, then reset the device and recall them, I find both have returned to 28m.
12:19:36*gevaerts is more annoyed by the fact that audio stops playing when he resets the device
12:19:41gevaertsWhy isn't *that* fixed?
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12:24:52chrisjjWorkaround: power-off the device. Which is not possible on an externally powered ZEN (AFAICT) since it it fails to respond to a power-button press on recent builds.
12:25:46gevaertsThe workaround for hard-resetting devices is either *not* hard-resetting devices, or replacing the user
12:28:23chrisjj...or fixing the RB builds that are doing forced hard resets.
12:30:09chrisjjpamaury, overnight test suggests battery_bench.txt is exonerated on BSoPO.
12:34:18chrisjjAlso, (only one run so far) that nowdt works as expected. Playing that would have given a BSoPS instead gave a black screen etc. with no response to power key.
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13:00
13:05:38pamaurychrisjj: ZEN cannot power down when externally powered
13:05:52pamauryor rather it can but it would boot up again immediately
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13:06:13pamauryso power button does not 'fail' to respond, it's just disabled
13:06:15chrisjjIt can?? How?
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13:08:16pamauryI mean, you could tell the hardware to power down when usb is plugged, it would power down and then power up immediately, that's why I disabled it. So currently, rockbox will/should not let you power down when plugged
13:10:52chrisjjMeaning you can't wait for power-key press? As does the OF?
13:11:44pamaury_not sure what you mean
13:12:58chrisjjYou said 'it would power down and then power up immediately'. That's presumably because power-up doesn't wait for a power key press. On the OF, it does.
13:13:46wodzchrisjj: you don't get it. External connected usb forces device to bootup.
13:15:19pamaury_If my memory serves, the OF will display a charging screen
13:15:44pamaury_and even if it doesn't, it's going to fake power down by actually powering up and sleeping
13:15:54pamaury_thus I don't see the point, it's not a real power down
13:16:26chrisjjPerhaps you're unaware the 'fail' happens on a charger.
13:16:55pamaury_chrisjj: ?
13:17:53chrisjjMy [12:16] was regarding wodz' comment about External connected usb.
13:18:23pamaury_I don't see what 'fail' you are referring to and I don't see what's special about a charger
13:18:51wodzchrisjj: I assure you I pretty good know how devices work
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13:21:14chrisjjpamaury, the 'fail' is the one you responded on in [12:06]. And yes there's nothing special about the charger. The issue applies equally with charger and USB to PC.
13:21:52pamaury_chrisjj: ok so let's be VERY clear: 1) this is not a fail/issue, I told you it's done on purpose 2) in my book, USB and charger == power, so they are the same
13:23:15chrisjjSo is there any way I can 'could tell the hardware to power down when usb is plugged' (charger or PC)?
13:24:15gevaertsCan you read?
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13:26:25*wodz felt off his chair
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13:31:44*chrisjj rereads pamaury comments
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13:31:54*chrisjj checks for Rockbox Quit/Exit/Shutdown command... in case he overlooked it. Nope.
13:32:47pamaury_chrisjj: I'm sorry but if you can't read we can't help you. I said it can disabled, disabled implies not possible.
13:32:55pamaury_*it is disabled
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13:34:00chrisjjGot you. So instead of disabling it, why not make it work - with power-key press doing the power-on? Just like the OF?
13:34:47gevaertsTHE HARDWARE CAN NOT BE POWERED OFF IF THERE IS EXTERNAL POWER
13:35:12pamaury_because I don't see any use for it. As I explained, the hardware cannot be powered, it would be a fake power off, that's stupid and useless
13:35:13chrisjjDid you try it on OF??
13:35:16gevaertsOne more question about this and someone might be put on quiet
13:36:02pamaury_chrisjj: as I explained, for the third time, this is a fake power down, you need to power-up to charge anyway. Explain to me what is the point of displaying a back screen to the user so he think the device is powered down when it's not
13:36:04chrisjjIt would be the same power-off state as the OF.
13:36:19pamaury_And ?
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13:37:13pamaury_Rockbox is not emulating the OF, if the OF does something stupid, we have no obligation to do it as well
13:37:29chrisjjOne point of going to power-off is to shutdown RB (getting all those little unsaved working variables like Top Time saved), and so I can restart it afresh.
13:37:50chrisjj(Wordaround: go to internal power, press power key, return to external power.)
13:37:54pamaury_that must be the most stupid statement I've ever heard
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13:38:52gevaertsYou mean open the device, cut through the USB power line, press power key, solder line back, close device?
13:38:54chrisjjI don't see what's stupid about the power key doing what it says regardless of power source, but I accept you do. Fair enough.
13:38:59gevaertsSounds a bit complicated, don't you think
13:39:00wodzchrisjj: Jesus Christ, just stop.
13:39:36chrisjjpamaury, can you suggest any way I can shutdown RB on external power?
13:39:52pamaury_remove external power, power down
13:39:54pamaury_problem fixed
13:40:16chrisjjYou missed the 'on external power'. So I'll take that as a No. Thanks.
13:40:33pamaury_I know it's incredibly difficult to remove a usb cable
13:40:54pamaury_rockbox works for blind people but not people why arms
13:40:56pamaury_*without arms
13:41:17gevaertsOr brains
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13:43:01pamaury_wodz: ping
13:43:26chrisjjBTW, re 'you need to power-up to charge anyway', no I don't. I just need to plug in the charger. No need to press the power key.
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13:44:09pamaury_chrisjj: sigh, you must be stupid. The OF powers up without you knowing, that's why it's stupid
13:45:00chrisjjSure, *it* goes into charger mode without me saying. That's why*I* don't need to power-up.
13:45:12wodzpamaury: pong
13:45:41pamaury_chrisjj: and rockbox similarly does that. If you plug a usb cable from power-down state, it powers up and charge. Honestly I don't know what is your problem, only you see a problem there
13:45:50Mode"#rockbox +o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
13:46:18chrisjjJust as it goes into charger mode when *I* press power key to power down. That's the way all devices I know (except RB) work and it doesn't look stupid to me.
13:46:43pamaury_wodz: I have a problem with mips exceptions, if I read/write to a location that is not backed (for example outside of RAM, or read/write to/from RAM when RAM is disabled), it crashes but does not seem to call any exception vector. I think we discussed that once but I don't remember wy
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13:47:16Mode"#rockbox +q chrisjj!*@*" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
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13:47:34gevaertsThere, should be better
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13:48:52wodzpamaury_: I don't quite understand the problem. exception vector needs to be in unmapped and obviously available location.
13:49:20pamaury_wodz: I have the exceptions vectors are the right place I think, but some invalid memory access don't seem to trigger any of them
13:49:43Mode"#rockbox -o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
13:50:17*pamaury_ must be doing something wrong
13:50:20wodzpamaury_: read or write? AFAIK mips doesn't track validity of write operation
13:51:10wodzpamaury_: Show the code maybe I spot something obvious
13:51:15pamaury_write
13:53:26wodzhmm, my statement is nonsense
13:55:47pamaury_wodz: g#1516
13:55:48fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #1516 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1516 : 3random fixes (DON'T PUSH) by Amaury Pouly
13:55:55*wodz reads
13:56:21pamaury_currently I call die_blinking on exception and that blinks the backlight
13:56:38pamaury_and if I read from 0x80000000 (RAM) when RAM is not setup, device crashes but doesn't blink
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13:58:03pamaury_admitedly there is a big of magic with EBASE and TCSM physical address but it works for IRQ (I tested that)
13:58:11pamaury_(I think)
13:59:41wodzpamaury_: why do you have two times exception handlers allocated in lds - one in KEEP() and then another time without?
14:00
14:00:31pamaury_wodz: the KEEP is here to tell the linker to keep this section even if it is not referenced, it does not allocate anything
14:01:13wodzI think you only need KEEP() line alone.
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14:01:26*pamaury_ checks
14:01:28pamaury_but I think not
14:02:13pamaury_hum, you might be right
14:02:52*pamaury_ retries with just one entry
14:03:04pamaury_but it's not going to fix it I think, I would just duplicate the handler in memory
14:03:31wodzpamaury_: yeah, it is not the cause definitely
14:03:56duo8pamaury_ how many ports are you on now
14:04:08pamaury_duo8: Sony NWZ and Fiio X1/X3
14:04:29duo8all the linux walkmans?
14:06:37wodzpamaury_: Accessing not setup mappable address should put you in tlb refill exception. I would start from that.
14:06:42pamaury_all but the very first generation (A820) and some very recent (A30, WM1).
14:07:09pamaury_wodz: it there a reliable way to trigger an exception ? so I can make sure the code is executed
14:07:33pamaury_like with irq I can do a soft irq
14:07:53wodzpamaury_: As I said try to access something in mappable area which doesn't have tlb entry
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14:12:10wodzpamaury_: You seem to not touch irq setup (except EBASE). Maybe thats the problem.
14:13:14pamaury_ok so if I do a syscall right after EBASE, setup the general exception vector is correctly called
14:13:30pamaury_*s/setup//
14:13:43pamaury_I disable IRQ I think, I don't use them
14:15:10pamaury_wodz: re tlb entry, if I don't touch the TLB, any address lower than 0x80000000 should trigger a tlb miss right ?
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14:15:33wodzpamaury_: afaik yes
14:15:49pamaury_ok it works, if I read at 0x20000000 it triggers the tlb exception
14:16:11pamaury_but the problem is that if I try to read RAM at its uncached address (0x80000000), I don't get an exception
14:16:18pamaury_but it crashes
14:17:34wodzpamaury_: uncached alias bypasses tlb altogether.
14:18:03pamaury_yeah that's the thing, maybe it simply locks up the hardware
14:19:04wodzpamaury_: Having nothing at physical address 0 is very unusual on MIPS (I don't know it is even supported).
14:19:29pamaury_well there is the RAM
14:19:52pamaury_but it needs to be init of course
14:20:20pamaury_the whole business of cache-as-ram and mapping TCSM0 at 0xf4000000 is super weird anyway
14:20:54wodzpamaury_: right. I'd check if it doesn't try to access 0x80000180 on exception (despite having ebase set)
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14:21:43fishbulbhey does anyone here use an H300 still?
14:26:02pamaury_wodz: I think I found out
14:26:08pamaury_it triggers an IRQ
14:27:05wodzpamaury_: well it should. bad address is handled in general exception
14:27:25pamaury_wodz: no I mean it uses vector 0x200
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14:28:18pamaury_0x200 is interrupt special and 0x180 is general exception right ?
14:28:25wodzpamaury_: Are you kidding? What is Cause register then? Did they invert standard mips convention?
14:28:34wodzpamaury_: It can be configured so, yes
14:28:46pamaury_let me double check my claim
14:29:45pamaury_ah no, my mistake
14:30:09pamaury_I used an tlb miss address
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14:30:36pamaury_so no, no exception is triggered on invalid uncached read
14:35:20pamaury_at least I can trap tlb miss exception and make hwstub recover but not uncached read/write errors
14:35:41fishbulbhey should I be regularly updating rockbox, and where do I find the updates?
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14:36:50pamauryfishbulb: since we haven't done a release in 3 years, use dev builds: https://build.rockbox.org/
14:37:04fishbulbalso, this SSD conversion in my h300 means it won't charge through the usb port anymore, the playtime and record time I get is just as long as before, if not longer.. it sometimes crashes, I don't know whether that's to do with a physical hard drive not being there anymore. I don't know what to do about the charging thing
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14:37:57fishbulbthe outer case is metal and plastic so I can't hack like a usb lipo charging module into the case, plus I don't hvae any spares
14:38:16pamauryfishbulb: I no nothing about it but a lot of people who trying HDD->SDD conversion for ipods run into many problems
14:38:58wodzpamaury: I think I have my atj target with me so I can check. Describe exactly how do you test. simpy DEV.read32(something uncached and invalid) from hwstub?
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14:39:12fishbulbit plays and records fine, as far as I can tell the battery life is at least the same
14:39:24pamaurywodz: yeah, I have DEV.read32(0x80000000)
14:39:38pamauryon atj maybe you want to use another address that you know is invalid
14:39:50fishbulbit's hard to tell without doing something like play a FLAC until the battery goes flat through headphones
14:41:39wodzpamaury: I think I can run hwstub without configuring SDRAM so this should be equivalent.
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14:43:30pamaurywodz: I think atj doesn't implement read/write recovery currently, but with the patch I posted, you can jump to the recovery function in ams/mips/system.S and it works (at least on jz)
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14:46:46wodzpamaury: I am pretty sure I implemented recovery from invalid read/write. Reading sources seems to support this claim.
14:48:32pamaurywodz: then maybe I stole your code and put it in system.S ;)
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14:49:38pamaurywodz: ah you are right, atj's ctr0.S implements recovery by copy-pasting in each handler. I simply turned that into a proper function
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14:52:01wodzpamaury: Ah, yes. I decided that since the space is not available to anything else I'll skip function call :P
14:53:06pamauryyeah that's a good point actually
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14:53:14pamauryit would be better to turn it into a macro
14:53:46wodzpamaury: lua:1: fail to read32 @ 0x8fffffff
14:54:06pamaurywodz: can you do any operation after that ? or is the stub dead ?
14:54:21wodzpamaury: works after that
14:54:51pamauryhum
14:55:14pamauryI'll try with RAM enabled and vectors at 0x80000000 see if it makes a difference
14:55:17wodzpamaury: However read from invalid addresses but with proper alignment doesn't fail. It just returns something.
14:56:49wodzpamaury: write is also successful but does not stick.
14:57:29pamauryok, that needs more investigation on jz
14:57:43wodzpamaury: I mean I didn't initialized sdram controller and reading and writing to 0x80000000 doesn't raise exception
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15:36:43peturfishbulb: IIRC the h300 doesn´t charge over USB, only the barrel powerconnector. And battery life may not change much as the HDD is put to sleep most of the time
15:36:57fishbulbit always charged over the usb
15:37:09fishbulbit goes into "charge mode" but the battery doesn't get higher
15:37:29fishbulbI charge it with the DC powersupply and it's done in an hour or so
15:37:32peturthen I remember incorrectly
15:37:39fishbulbthanks though
15:39:04peturah, I see in the wiki it does indeed support that
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19:42:07Mode"#rockbox +o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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20:21:28Yogurthey all
20:30:44YogurtI see E380 support has been pushed
20:30:50Yogurtand update on E580? :)
20:31:30lebelliumonly one different letter but completely different ports
20:31:43lebelliumRockbox starts on E580 but no sound for now
20:32:16Yogurtcool
20:32:24Yogurtany way I can help the port?
20:34:07lebelliumnot at the moment. The developer pamaury and me do own the device and can test if needed. We may need users feedback later
20:34:20Yogurtcool
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20:34:32Yogurtany eta on user feedback stage?
20:35:09lebelliumnope
20:35:23Yogurtkk, i'll check back in a week or two
20:35:57pamauryYogurt: best way for a few weeks. Without working audio, it's kind of useless
20:36:33fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision a931c76, 255 builds, 14 clients.
20:37:08Yogurtk
20:37:13lebelliumpamaury: destination tool spotted and translated on Italien, Spanish, Russian, German and English forums :)
20:37:28lebelliumItalian*
20:37:59pamauryoh wow
20:38:02pamauryno pressure
20:38:16fishbulbhi I'm re-housing my iriver h300 into an alloy milled housing I'm making, I'm wondering how hardcore you guys know each player?
20:38:30pamaurylebellium: did they keep the link to the original wiki page at least ?
20:38:51pamauryand the latest version ?
20:39:16lebelliumpamaury: head-fi did but some other forums didn't (of course...) http://reproductormp3.net/index.php/topic,26118.msg283305.html?PHPSESSID=c4Aij-ulah0VLDJnOd64I2#msg283305
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20:40:14pamauryarg
20:40:15lebelliumwell, there is a link to the original page
20:40:21lebelliuma few posts before
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20:41:07lebelliumusually someone posts the original link then someone translate the instructions (but sometimes with a direct download link)
20:41:17pamauryI kind of hoped that people would have the intelligence of giving the source of the documentation, apparently not
20:41:58lebelliumwell, they do since I found all these forums posts by googling https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWDestTool
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20:42:35lebelliumthe problem is rather when instructions are translated a few posts later
20:43:03fishbulblike there is a slight hiss over everything, and I've always thought either changing the dac or putting better caps in there or something would get rid of this? if I'm going to rehouse a very old media player into a custom scratch made housing (with line out connectors and stuff like that) and probably a better microphone, I would want to go the extra mile and improve the sound quality, but I don't know exactly how the h300 converts digital to
20:43:03fishbulbaudio
20:43:50lebelliumreplacing a DAC by another model looks challenging :)
20:44:09fishbulbbetter battery too, but since you guys develop the software that operates this thing, you would know
20:44:48fishbulblooks challenging? what are you looking at?
20:45:38lebelliumwell, it's not just a hardware matter, you have to change all the code (software) behind!
20:46:03fishbulboh crap. yeah that's challenging
20:47:35lebelliumand I don't think the hiss comes from the DAC
20:47:47skapazzowasn't there a post somewhere about replacing the caps in a iriver h140? I modded mine to microsd and I remember reading something about it at the time.
20:47:47fishbulbwhere do you think it comes from then
20:48:10skapazzoand I never had any hisses here or on other iriver players
20:48:17fishbulbI'm not part of that forum and haven't kept up
20:48:18lebelliumfrom the 3.5mm output?
20:48:29lebelliumthe hiss on H300 is terrible
20:49:03fishbulbthe hiss is worse than a phone for example
20:49:08fishbulbbut a phone will clip way sooner
20:49:19fishbulbrunning any headphones
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20:50:54fishbulblebellium, terrible compared to what else?
20:51:09lebelliumfishbulb: to my other 100 players :)
20:51:20lebelliumI think it's the worst
20:51:25lebelliumIIRC
20:51:34lebelliummaybe I should give another try
20:51:44fishbulbwhy did you say from the 3.5mm output
20:51:52fishbulbthere's a line out and a headphones out
20:52:03lebelliumI mean from the headphones out
20:52:15fishbulbis the other one any different?
20:52:46lebelliumregarding hiss?
20:53:03fishbulbyeah and how it works and stuff
20:53:37fishbulb"and stuff" is a terrible mental tic that makes everything sound like you don't know anything
20:54:01lebelliumYou can google how a line-out is supposed to work
20:54:10lebelliumbah, my H300 won't turn on
20:54:18fishbulbthat doesn't help me with the h300 one
20:54:19*lebellium hopes the battery is not dead
20:54:37fishbulbreplace that battery :)
20:54:55lebelliumI already did in 2011 or 2012
20:54:59lebelliumbut since I never use it...
20:55:14fishbulbthat might be too long ago, you could plug it in
20:56:08fishbulbso all the code has to be changed to run a different dac? I'm not sure I could do that
20:58:02fishbulbwhere would the hiss come from? are you just comparing subjectively between the h series, do you know more about the electronics of this thing, or..
20:58:07pamauryfishbulb: not necessarily, if you put another supported dac
20:59:49fishbulbwould that eliminate the hiss? I got a... 70 dollar usb dac and that sounds a lot better
21:00
21:00:00fishbulbbut it's for android, or a PC
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21:02:42fishbulbit sounds really good actually considering the price, and I'm sure the build quality housing and other stuff isn't doing it any favours, the stuff done by hand is sometimes what makes middle end high end
21:05:17fishbulbbut I still like this media player/recorder enough to house it in a body that will last longer than the insides and has some better stuff, how many media players have an alloy housing with the best connectors etc
21:06:16fishbulbhow do I find out which dac it uses and do you mean "supported by rockbox" ?
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21:08:49pamaurythere are PCB scans here apparently: https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IriverInfo
21:09:38pamauryit will only work if the dac is a separate chip of course
21:10:18lebelliumhum
21:10:31lebelliumI can hear the HDD running but no display
21:10:38lebelliumI hope it's no the screen which is dead
21:10:49fishbulbMotorola Coldfire xCF5249 CPU
21:10:56fishbulbis that what converts digital to audio?
21:11:02lebelliumno
21:11:07lebelliumthat's the processor (CPU)
21:11:33fishbulbforums are so annoying, but I should probably join that head-fi one
21:12:19pamaurythe config file says it has a UDA1380
21:12:35lebelliumdisplay not dead. The H300 just powered on and says 0% battery :)
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21:13:28lebelliumfishbulb: I don't want to be too rude, but if you don't have some basic knowledges about components, it will be very difficult to make all the changes you consider
21:13:39lebelliumunless someone does everything for you
21:14:15fishbulbI had this idea last night, I've drawn up a lot of stuff, and I can research
21:15:21fishbulbI don't want to be rude either but I wasn't sure if you were answering the questions based on a working knowledge of the player or just to chime in, sorry I don't know anyone in here, and a forum post said the cpu did the digital to audio conversion
21:16:41fishbulbI think this is pretty specific knowledge though and I've only really started to apply any research
21:19:05fishbulbnot many people work on very tiny things at a hardware level
21:20:04fishbulbthey just throw them out and get the newest shiniest one :/
21:21:50pamauryfishbulb: changing the DAC will require a lot of knowledge about electrical circuits, and it's very unlikely you have just remove it and find a chip that has a compatible pinout
21:22:01pamauryit's not impossible but it's going to be hard I think
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21:24:21fishbulbbut I'm assuming the hiss comes from the dac
21:24:56lebelliumI think (might be wrong) that hiss or various background noises come from the way the maker implemented the DAC and the output
21:25:02lebelliumnot from the DAC itself
21:25:23lebelliumthat's why several devices sharing the same DAC may have different hiss levels
21:26:40pamauryit could come from anything, poor pcb layout/isolation/power source/jack, probably not from the dac
21:27:00wodzfishbulb: basically the list of already supported dacs in rockbox is: aic3x, ak4537, cs42l55, dac3550a, df1704, mas35xx, pcm1792, tlv320, tsc2100, uda1341, uda1380, wm8731, wm8758, wm8978, wm8751, wm8975, wm8985
21:27:28fishbulbthe output to the amps? I'm really more of a mechanical guy than liek this level of electronics, the custom alloy housing, wiring better connectors, larger battery, that kind of stuff isn't too hard, but if I want to make the project worthwhile it's like I should do something about the hiss because phones etc don't have that, but they will clip at far lower volume levels using large headphones
21:27:55wodzfishbulb: maybe some are only integrated in some soc (I don't know all of them). But usually hiss comes from interference in analog domain *after* dac
21:28:27fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 16a9f84, 255 builds, 14 clients.
21:29:49fishbulbis the h300 one considered decent?
21:31:04 Quit idonob_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:31:19wodzfishbulb: That depends. Dac parameters are not in pair with good recent chips.
21:31:43fishbulbon par?
21:32:17lebelliumit was considered as a (very) good sounding player
21:33:39fishbulbit was, 13 years ago... the hiss is noticable compared to.. for example, plugging this 70 buck "android external dac/amp" into the computer and using that
21:34:23lebelliumand don't know if hiss should be part of the sound quality judgment
21:34:28fishbulbso I'm not sure whether it's incrementally gotten worse and just hasn't been noticable
21:34:31lebelliumit depends on your IEM
21:34:34lebelliumheadphone
21:34:50fishbulbI don't like IEMs, I prefer cans
21:38:24lebelliumok so I just tried
21:38:38lebelliumthe hiss is indeed terrible
21:38:47lebelliumwith the line-out there no hiss
21:38:52lebelliumbut that's a line-out...
21:40:48pamaurylebellium: you have a h300 ?
21:40:59lebelliumpamaury: yep, H100 too
21:41:11wodzpamaury: I can't find any info if bad unmapped address access raises exception anywhere
21:42:55wodzpamaury: pic32mx (which is m4kc core mcu) has special registers where you can enable exceptions on faulty unmapped access.
21:43:17pamaurywodz: I tried to read See MIPS Run and the R4000 manual but it says nothing except some vague bullshit about bus problem being reported possibly as external interrupt. Which makes little sense, cause the CPU couldn't enter interrupt mode if it's waiting for the intsruction (for read for example) to finish I think, that's why exceptions are special. I suspect on jz it will just hang the cpu
21:44:13lebelliumpamaury: I always wanted it. YH-J70 and Cowon X5 only had a 160x128 screen while the H300 has a 220x176 bigger one. And I think it looks beautiful for a brick. I wished I had bought it in 2004. Did some years later though
21:44:46wodzpamaury: seems like 'the mips way' is to always run from mapped address unless you want to be 100% sure you don't generate tlb miss.
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21:45:25pamauryyeah you're right, which makes sense in a way
21:46:11skapazzofishbulb: have you thought about using the h300 with an external amp?
21:46:40wodzpamaury: It makes little sense in mcu but mips didn't find its way into this segment. PIC32MX is the only exception I know of.
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21:46:42pamaurymaybe this is a defect of the h100/h300 ?
21:46:45fishbulbno hiss with the line out? are you sure?
21:47:01lebelliumless
21:48:07fishbulbskapazzo, that's a clunky solution, the main thing I want is to rehouse it in a really nice custom alloy case with good connectors more battery and that stuff, but if I just stuck the h300 + external amp inside that enclosure it seems too clunky and ugly a hack to bother with
21:49:32fishbulbI did the ssd conversion, I've kept these things alive and in fairly constant use for years, this is the next and last step
21:50:39fishbulbalso I don't want to amplify the hiss anyway
21:51:44lebelliumthere's much less hiss
21:51:54skapazzofishbulb: I understand, I've been thinking about upgrading mine to ssd too, I just love that thing. Will you post some pictures of your build somewhere? I always enjoy these mods.
21:52:07lebelliumbut less hiss amplified may be bad indeed
21:53:25lebelliumOh I have a 2016 rockbox build on it!
21:53:29*lebellium doesn't even remember
21:53:48fishbulbI'm on day one of considering this project, but yeah of course I'll post pictures of it somewhere
21:56:34fishbulbthe SSD does seem to mean it won't really charge through the usb port, it sort of just stays at the same level even though it says charging.. I had to try two to get it to work, both second hand, if I had more money and had done more research I think I could have choesn the right drive, they just came out of some scrapped ultrabooks I think.
21:56:35lebelliumpamaury: I don't know if it's a "defect" but the H300 is infamous for its hiss. I do think though that it was less a problem in 2004 than nowadays. Back to the time less people had sensitive IEM
21:58:08wodzpamaury: All this makes me think that if mips port takes off we need to run from mapped address to catch bogus access.
21:58:54fishbulblebellium, I think alloy cases with cool connectors and shit looks cooler, but this still doesn't look bad
22:00
22:00:28lebelliumI'll tell you when yours is done :P
22:00:40fishbulbbut a cosmetic (and battery/connectors) only change is a fair bit of work if the thing inside doesn't really sound better. I dunno it seems like it needs more to be a worthwhie project
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22:01:13lebelliumfor sure I will never customize mine. As a collector I need to keep my devices as they originally were.
22:01:38pamaurywodz: that's what I'm planning to do, use a few wired entries to map things
22:01:45fishbulbI've been using mine as my only media player, and have two, so they're both fairly beaten up
22:02:37wodzpamaury: This will not be bullet proof as we need to run in kernel mode so kseg0 access is valid as well.
22:03:29pamaurywell it's not bullet proof on arm either anyway
22:03:46fishbulbno money to be a collector. what does a 2016 rockbox build mean?
22:04:09fishbulbis there constant development going on for these things still?
22:05:15lebelliumthere are new builds almost everytime That doesn't necessarily mean the changes concern the H300
22:05:37fishbulbok
22:05:52lebelliumbut there may be some changes affecting all devices (look what was just commited a few minutes ago)
22:17:54 Join michaelni [0] (~michael@213-47-41-20.cable.dynamic.surfer.at)
22:25:35fishbulbI don't know where to look
22:26:47 Quit _mt_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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22:37:27 Nick __builtin is now known as a1 (~xray@rockbox/developer/builtin)
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22:40:12fishbulbso the h140 is superior hardware?
22:41:17fishbulbscrew it I don't have one and I'm invested in this device. where are the latest builds?
22:42:05lebelliumthe H100 is famous for its optical out
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22:42:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:42:36lebelliumhttps://www.rockbox.org/recent.shtml#code
22:42:41lebelliumhttps://build.rockbox.org/
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22:43:14fishbulbI was more wanting to just make the thing I already like MUCH better
22:43:26Bilguswhich was a really cool idea in 2001 but I don't think much comes with spdif anymore Toslink?
22:43:29 Nick jhMikeS is now known as PM_ME_YOUR_KNICK (~jethead71@d192-24-173-177.try.wideopenwest.com)
22:44:10 Nick PM_ME_YOUR_KNICK is now known as NickjhMikeS (~jethead71@d192-24-173-177.try.wideopenwest.com)
22:44:43fishbulbto transfer it what happens there?
22:45:13fishbulbI mean rockbox, I unzip it over the existing stuff?
22:46:10 Join __builtin [0] (~xray@rockbox/developer/builtin)
22:47:19lebelliumyes
22:47:27fishbulbcool.
22:47:59lebelliumby curiosity, what's your current rockbox version?
22:48:17fishbulbha. um. I don't know. old
22:48:21 Quit Senji (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
22:48:30lebelliumyou can see it on .rockbox/rockbox-info.txt or on device system settings
22:49:56fishbulb0f89b04-160628
22:50:15lebelliumokay, it's fairly recent
22:50:25lebelliumI don't remember if there is something interesting for H300 since then
22:50:31fishbulbhow many months roughly
22:50:47gevaerts160628 is the build date
22:51:00lebelliumJune, 28th 2016
22:51:03gevaertsSo that's from the sixth of the sixteenth month of 1928 I believe
22:51:09fishbulboh cool. that actually coincides roughly when I quit smoking
22:52:09fishbulbfetch me my listening jacket
22:52:46fishbulbI shall be in the auditorium
22:53:21*gevaerts doesn't think much has been going on audio-wise since then, but there has been some game plugin work
22:53:43*__builtin waves
22:55:26 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
22:55:51lebelliumyes, we can't say it's not worth it to update the build on H300
22:55:56lebellium__builtin is watching :)
22:56:14gevaertsIt all depends on what sort of thing you're interested in
22:56:47__builtinif you're a big fan of one-player puzzle games, update ;)
22:58:25__builtinotherwise most of the work done since then falls under the category of "pamaury"
22:59:15*pamaury plans to push another 15 commits very soon
22:59:22__builtin50 of the commits in the last 4 weeks are from him ;)
23:00
23:00:21lebelliumI think the ratio is the same if you look at the past 2 years?
23:02:34Bilgus__builtin, 1417 is ready
23:02:47__builtinok, cool
23:02:57__builtinI assume it's been tested?
23:03:44Bilgusin as much as its been up the last month, I did the stuff with the manual last night but feel free to test more if you like
23:04:49 Quit mutnai (Quit: Page closed)
23:06:09Bilgusoops needs rebased though
23:06:22__builtinI can do that, I think
23:06:27Bilgusdone.
23:07:17fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision dc87e9e, 255 builds, 13 clients.
23:07:57Bilgusglad thats done thx
23:08:13__builtinstick around though, from my personal experience something always breaks ;)
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23:08:51BilgusI'm still working on the time selector i'll be heare a good long while
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23:27:54fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 1237 seconds.
23:27:55fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision dc87e9e result: 0 errors 31 warnings
23:27:55 Quit advcomp2019 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:28:28Bilgushmm how do we see warnings?
23:29:00__builtingo to http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi
23:29:40pamauryBilgus: I would have appreciated some discussion before pushing this commit!
23:29:41__builtinapparently it's because of "misleading indentation"
23:29:56Bilgus?
23:30:35NickjhMikeSThat _is_ a whopper of a commit message. I thought I was bad sometimes.
23:31:06 Quit advcomp2019_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
23:31:29__builtinBilgus: it appears that the line after the "break;" is misleadingly indented
23:32:09 Quit Bray90820 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:33:31Bilguspamaury its been up a month what would you like to discuss?
23:34:43pamauryThere were a lot of changes at some point, I wasn't aware that it was done
23:35:04 Join Bray90820 [0] (~bray90820@173-25-204-30.client.mchsi.com)
23:35:14Bilguswould you like to revert till you've had a chance to look over it?
23:36:01 Quit fIorz (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
23:37:40pamaurypersonally I don't mind, I'll go through it, but it introduces some potentially controversial functionality, I know [Saint] was not necessarily happy about it. Usually we use the mailing list to send an email before big changes that can affect all targets
23:38:07 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507])
23:39:06Bilgusoh I wasn't aware of the email thing
23:39:35BilgusI'm pretty sure I addressed the issues [Saint] had with it
23:40:43Bilgusas for the indented line, how do I address that
23:40:53__builtinjust remove the indent
23:41:12__builtinand push a patch to gerrit
23:41:40Bilgusah ok
23:41:42__builtinthe nice thing about git is that if enough people don't like it it's not that hard to revert the change ;)
23:42:08BilgusI hope they do that was a lot of work
23:42:18Bilguslike it that is
23:42:46pamaury__builtin: I like git a lot
23:43:32__builtinthe thing I don't like, though, is when I spend more time merging crap than actually doing useful work :(
23:43:36pamaurybut every system let you easily revert a change
23:44:15__builtinwell, git makes it easier than, say, using CVS and mailing patches around
23:44:26pamaurymerging stuff is not fun, but honestly, git makes it easier than cvs, svn or patches
23:44:39pamaurycan't say about mercurial or others
23:52:23Bilgusok misleading indentation fixed
23:53:09Bilgussurprised I didn't catch that as many times as I have compiled this for all targets
23:53:41pamauryBilgus: I'm quite impressed, no compile error and only one warning
23:54:11gevaertsYou're probably using an older compiler
23:54:15BilgusThanks it was your script that I altered to test it against all targets though
23:54:24gevaertsThat's a fairly new warning
23:55:06pamauryyeah sim builds are the pickiest because of very recent GCC
23:55:44Bilgusgcc version 4.6.3
23:56:03fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 6103d4d, 255 builds, 13 clients.

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