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#rockbox log for 2017-01-19

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00:39:10__builtinhey fishbulb
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03:03:25 Join furrywolf [0] (
03:04:27furrywolfI can't seem to make shuffle work. I created a playlist, turned shuffled on in playback settings, and it's still playing them in order. I've been futzing around with it for about 15 minutes now. what am I doing wrong?
03:10:56furrywolfcreating the playlist with shuffle already on doesn't cause shuffling. turning it off and on doesn't cause shuffling. turning it off or on with quick settings still doesn't cause shuffling.
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03:17:58__builtinfurrywolf: I'm not sure exactly how it's supposed to work, the manual might give some insights
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03:19:03furrywolfI've tried just about everything I can think of... I can't imagine such a basic feature doesn't work, so I must be doing something wrong... but this shouldn't be complicated!
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03:19:12***Alert Mode level 1
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03:39:09chrisjjfurrywolf, shuffle doesn't work as one might expect or as the manual says.
03:40:17furrywolfok... how does it work? :)
03:40:31chrisjjIs that the same builtin who just said he's not exactly sure how it is supposed to work?? :-)
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03:41:05chrisjjSet Shuffle to On, go to Files, select the first track in a folder of many, press Select.
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03:41:31chrisjjThe tracks will be shuffled as they are transferred to the current playlist.
03:41:37furrywolfthat creates a playlist of the files in that directory... and then plays them in order.
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03:42:19chrisjjHere it creates a current playlist containing the tracks shuffled.
03:42:50furrywolfI've figured out I can create a shuffled playlist, if I use the shuffle option in the playlist menu, but I haven't been able to make the normal shuffle option do _anything_.
03:43:09furrywolfand to use that I have to manually re-shuffle every time I add to the playlist
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03:44:00chrisjjThe one that works is Reshuffle?
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03:45:19furrywolfif I hold down select on the playlist, then select shuffle, it will shuffle the current playlist... which it then plays in order.
03:47:44furrywolfwhen I add the tracks to the playlist, they get added in the expected normal order, regardless of what shuffle is set to.
03:47:53furrywolfas far as I can tell, the shuffle option does _nothing_. at all.
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03:49:40furrywolfI did download the dev build, since the last stable was >3 years ago, and I noticed there were changed related to battery life, which I'd like... should I download the stable version and try that instead?
03:50:09__builtinfurrywolf: no, the last "release" is horribly out of date
03:51:11furrywolfso... am I completely missing something, or does shuffle simply not work?
03:52:03chrisjjShuffle on the Playlist menu?? The current dev build has none. It has Reshuffle on the Playlist menu.
03:52:41furrywolf... I downloaded whatever development build the automatic installer downloads, and it's most definitely "shuffle".
03:53:16furrywolfand it does work, and shuffles the current playlist.
03:54:31furrywolfbut the shuffle playback option, as accessed in the playback settings menu, or from the quick settings menu, seems to have no effect whatsoever, either adding or playing tracks.
03:55:08chrisjjI don't believe the automatic installer downloads any dev build. And I don't know what version you have with Shuffle there. What I see is .
03:56:18furrywolfthe installer downloaded 15e1f59 updated 2017-1-16
03:56:54furrywolfalso, as an installer note, the automatically detect player option instantly segfaults. I haven't gdb'ed it to see why, as manual selection worked.
03:57:31chrisjjWhat's the version number under System?
03:59:07chrisjjOK. How are you adding tracks?
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04:01:09furrywolfeither by selecting a track, which wipes the playlist and adds all the tracks in the current directory, or by selecting a folder, holding select, current playlist, insert.
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04:02:10furrywolfwhich doesn't wipe the current playlist, and adds everything in and under that directory.
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04:03:14furrywolfhrmm. I'm trying to upload an image of my screen, but imgur seems to have changed their image upload process, such that it no longer works.
04:04:26furrywolftheir old process works. now it doesn't. yay progress!
04:04:54chrisjjShuffle doesn't work on Insert here. No idea why.
04:05:03furrywolf no "re" here. it may be a hardware-specific thing.
04:05:36furrywolfshuffle shouldn't work on insert... it should affect the playing of the playlist, not the order of the playlist itself.
04:06:41chrisjjHere when selecting a track (to put a folder to the current playlist), Shuffle does work, but only on the unselected tracks, not the selected one. No idea why.
04:07:42furrywolfthat's also broken, but different than the brokenness I'm getting.
04:10:16furrywolf if (playlist_create(dir, NULL) != -1)
04:10:16furrywolf {
04:10:16furrywolf ft_build_playlist(tree_get_context(), 0);
04:10:16DBUGEnqueued KICK furrywolf
04:10:16furrywolf if (global_settings.playlist_shuffle)
04:10:17furrywolf playlist_shuffle(current_tick, -1);
04:10:32furrywolfcode definitely says it should shuffle on adding a directory. weird. that is very much NOT how I would have done it...
04:11:06furrywolf * PLAYLIST_INSERT_SHUFFLED - Add track at some random point between the
04:11:07furrywolf * current playing track and end of playlist
04:11:28furrywolfso if you're at the end of the playlist, it adds everything at the end? heh
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04:13:15furrywolfugh. I don't like some of this code. heh.
04:13:40chrisjjAs I said, it doesn't work as one would expect :-)
04:13:45chrisjjWhat's your device?
04:14:08furrywolfsansa fuze
04:14:22furrywolfI can't follow what some of this playlist logic is doing, nor how it "unshuffles" it.
04:15:17furrywolfheh, I see repeat: shuffle is not implemented at all.
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04:16:21furrywolfheh, unshuffle just sorts the playlist... that explains why I didn't figure out how it works.
04:16:48furrywolfso... shuffle is broken by design?
04:17:23furrywolfshuffle should affect the playback order, not the actual playlist order. there's already an "insert shuffled" option for that, and the option to shuffle the playlist.
04:18:38chrisjjFuze sim on yesterday's dev build 170118 shows me Reshuffle:
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04:20:30chrisjjHow did you reach this menu ?
04:21:13furrywolfpressing the button that shows the playlist while a track is playing, then holding down select until the playlist menu appears.
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04:21:52furrywolf you can see that on my non-simulated one, it most definitely says "shuffle". lol
04:23:08furrywolfbut, I think the problem is more of a design issue, than a bug... why the hell are there two ways of doing the same thing? why is the playlist being shuffled when files are added, depending on the global shuffle option, when there's a separate option to insert them shuffled? why does shuffle not behave like 99.99% of people would expect it to, and only affect playback order, not the actual playlist order?
04:23:32furrywolfalso, why does the manual disagree on all of this? :)
04:24:31chrisjjIIUC the usual reason for two ways of doing something and a third in the manual is that three people contributed. :-)
04:25:09chrisjjThere are many instances in which the manual and program do not accord. Some coders don't like doing documentation.
04:25:40furrywolfI'm still not figuring out the actual shuffle logic, but it's setting off my "this feels wrong" feeling.
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04:27:40furrywolfalso, don't have one function named randomise_playlist, and another playlist_randomise... that just makes following it painful for no good reason at all. :)
04:34:36furrywolfwhy can you get to "insert" from the playlist menu? does is just add the track twice? heh
04:34:54chrisjjI think more of an issue than painful for the coders is e.g. having three different menus titled Playlist making it painful for the users.
04:35:30furrywolfheh, and "play next" creates a playlist containing only the selected track... twice.
04:36:11chrisjjYou get there from Current Playlist. The better question is why one can get to Current Playlist from the Playlist menu.
04:38:35furrywolfthere seems to be a lot of things to do with playlists that could be improved.
04:39:36furrywolfshuffle seems broken by design
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04:41:42furrywolfshuffling during playback should be separate from shuffling the actual list order
04:41:51chrisjjI've seen very little interest in fixing up the playlists UI.
04:42:35chrisjjI'd guess not many people use it much.
04:42:39HyperTalk_84I'd like to thank for RockBox, served well for me
04:43:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:44:18furrywolfI don't mean the UI, I mean the internal logic.. right now the playback shuffle option, rather than actually shuffling playback, seems to do the same thing as the insert shuffled option.
04:44:50furrywolfeven though there's a quick settings option to turn shuffle on and off, it's 100% useless, because shuffling is only done when tracks are added?
04:45:27chrisjjI'd say it is less useless than 100%.
04:46:10chrisjjYes its a mess, but that doesn't explain why Playback Shuffle doesn't work for you selecting tracks.
04:46:20chrisjjHere's a video of it working for me:
04:46:33furrywolfI can't view youtube.
04:47:46furrywolfI could, but I don't have high-speed internet, and I pay $11/GB. heh.
04:48:17furrywolfthe quick settings shuffle option is working now. WTF. lol
04:48:46furrywolfso it's something random that I prodded the right way screwing with it.
04:50:23furrywolfOK. If you use "insert", while shuffle is on, it breaks.
04:50:35chrisjjI got success by starting with no config.cfg, setting just Playback Shuffle On, and in Files selecting a track in a folder.
04:50:39furrywolfif you insert while shuffle is off, then it works.
04:51:11furrywolfif you toggle shuffle a few times, then it shuffles.
04:51:33furrywolfexcept it never actually un-shuffles... it just re-sorts the list, losing any manual ordering you did.
04:53:02furrywolfand if you insert things at a particular spot, they get inserted at the start of the list anyway.
04:54:03furrywolfsuggestion: play should get you back out of the quick settings menu and go back to playing, like it does on every single other screen.
04:55:21furrywolfnext issue... when I plug it in to my laptop to charge, it connects and disconnects constantly, both pissing off the player and spamming dmesg. stock firmware doesn't do this.
04:55:49furrywolfLOL. except for this time, where plugging in the usb cable caused it to immediately panic.
04:56:02furrywolfan OOM from playlist_resume.
04:56:09HyperTalk_84furry, what hardware do you have?
04:56:15furrywolfsansa fuse v1
04:57:54HyperTalk_84My clip+ worked well. The fuse may be less stable with ROckBox.
05:00:00furrywolfI'm guessing it's leaking memory somewhere and running itself out of ram reconnecting constantly. "usb 8-1.1: new high-speed USB device number 43 using ehci_hcd" "usb 8-1.1: device descriptor read/all, error -110" "usb 8-1.1: new high-speed USB device number 44 using ehci_hcd" etc etc etc. sometimes it successfully negotiates, then disconnects again.
05:00:04furrywolfand now it just paniced again.
05:01:03furrywolfin any case... I can't charge it.
05:01:04chrisjjHere on fresh RB, plugging in the USB immediately after unplugging causes a crash. Workaround: wait a few seconds.
05:01:23furrywolfit's constantly connecting and disconnecting on its own
05:01:24chrisjjs/crash/PANIC crash/
05:01:49furrywolfand for some reason it's connecting as a hid keyboard. what the hell?
05:02:48furrywolfI can't charge it or copy files to it, as it disconnects and reconnects constantly.
05:03:08furrywolfand then panics. :)
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05:03:25chrisjjUSB HID can be disabled under Settings.
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05:03:39furrywolfI can both charge it and copy files to it if I boot the stock firmware, so it's not a hardware usb issue.
05:04:03HyperTalk_84furry, sounds like more than a little problem of some minor RockBox bug
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05:06:09furrywolfdisabling usb hid did not fix the constant reconnects
05:06:44chrisjjWhen I've got that connect/disconnect loop, I've found RB is crashing on connect, then RB watchdog detects the crash and resets the device, and then RB reconnects.
05:06:51furrywolfit keeps trying to switch between the picture of the usb plug and the main menu, then panics.
05:07:01chrisjjYou may see some telltale on device screen.
05:07:17furrywolfno, it's not restarting... it shows the usb plug, then it reloads the playlist and goes back to the main menu.
05:07:32chrisjjAnd then it goes back to USB??
05:07:59chrisjjOh. That's a loop I've not seen.
05:08:00furrywolfand then it loads the playlist...
05:08:05furrywolfand then after a couple of times it panics
05:08:23furrywolfwatching the kernel log shows it's actually reconnecting every few seconds
05:08:39chrisjjDo you see an "error loading playlist" pop-up over the USB plug image?
05:08:45furrywolfon both the usb plug screen and the menu screen
05:08:54furrywolfit successfully loads it and goes back to the main menu
05:09:13chrisjjHow do you know it reloads the playlist?
05:09:20furrywolfhrmm, now it seems to have hard crashed... it's stuck on the main menu with no response to input.
05:09:41furrywolfbecause it says different percentages that increase, then it switches back to the main menu at about the spot 100% would be
05:10:02chrisjjIs your playlist huge?
05:10:31furrywolfaccording to the kernel log, it's reconnecting every 10.5 seconds, until it panics.
05:10:42furrywolfa couple thousand tracks
05:11:14furrywolfjust paniced with playlist_resume OOM again.
05:12:10HyperTalk_84Does it do it on other PC's? Have you tried an older version of RockBox? Perhaps you have a unit incompatible with RockBox.
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05:12:35furrywolfI'm guessing the OOMs are due to something leaking, and it actually running out of ram.
05:12:44furrywolfplaylist never getting freed or such
05:13:02furrywolfI only have one pc easily usable at the moment. the stock firmware handles usb fine.
05:13:02chrisjjWhat happens with a dozen-track playlist?
05:13:25furrywolfit reconnects every second or so, at least from what I remember from earlier.
05:14:10chrisjjIs that when playing audio?
05:14:27furrywolfor it just crashes immediately when I connect the usb cable. sigh...
05:14:35furrywolfit locked up again.
05:15:09furrywolf... that's new. now it just boots to a plain white screen.
05:15:38furrywolfshows the black loading screen for a fraction of a second, can't read what it says
05:15:58furrywolfboots fine with the usb cable unplugged
05:16:35furrywolflol, now, with a 13-track playlist, it panics at usb_storage_init_connection OOM.
05:17:10furrywolfit seems to be having memory management issues.
05:17:36furrywolfI'm beginning to thick rockbox may not meet my mp3 player needs at this time.
05:18:19chrisjjI wonder if the dev build has been tested on Sansa Fuze recently.
05:18:46furrywolfI would go with "no", since "panics upon connecting usb cable" is a pretty noticable issue.
05:20:30chrisjjThe outage has just ended, so perhaps ask there.
05:20:49furrywolfis that the same outage as themes.?
05:21:44furrywolfthis is taking way too much effort... I just want my radio to play mp3s. lol
05:24:19chrisjjSomeone will be along any minute to tell you "Rockbox is by developers for developers" :-) Despite which I hope you get it working. Bye for now.
05:25:50furrywolfI have too many projects to start developing mp3 player software.
05:32:57duo8anyone got experience with batteries here?
05:34:11duo8is it possible to have a 2200mAh battery in a 60x45x5 mm size?
05:35:53HyperTalk_84Or, look at a cell phone bettery
05:58:41duo8well the samsung s3 battery got pretty close (2100)
05:58:45duo8but it's thicker
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09:11:30pixelma"Insert shuffled" is especially useful on those devices that don't have enough buttons to have the quick screen available. And I also expect the order in the playlist being the order the tracks will be played, so when starting one in shuffled mode on a folder, I expect to see this when I view the playlist. There's a fine but important difference between shuffled and random play here and Rockbox only does the former and says so
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09:13:39pixelmaRockbox will also keep the order of a manipulated playlist... at the point where you saved it
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09:16:24pixelmaand of course while just playing without further manipulation
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12:03:15duo8 <- someone should add sony players
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13:11:22pixelmagevaerts: do you know how much RAM the Clip Zip has (re. the voice vs. fonts problem discussed in the forums)? I suspect the following: bigger fonts may already use so much of available RAM that the voice file can't be loaded into RAM anymore (I believe on swcodec it needs to completely fit into the buffer). So not the font file to blame in itself but a bunch of things and settings
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13:13:31pixelmaas I seem to remember that it wasn't much RAM on the Clip Zips, but am not sure
13:15:02pamaurychrisjj: as usual, patches welcome, complaining about code not matching documentation is pointless if you *just* complain
13:21:16duo8pixelma iirc 4MB
13:21:21duo8or 8
13:22:00duo8anyone have tips for pcb shots? finally opened my player
13:29:22pamauryI'm sure they are pictures on the wiki
13:54:17bilgusduo8 flatbed scanner is the way to go
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14:10:59Saratoga_8 MB dram, 1 MB Iram on a zip iirc
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14:12:07Saratoga_Google has an Android app for scanning photos that takes multiple camera shots and fuzes them
14:12:24Saratoga_It works OK for small parts if you don't have a scanner
14:13:20wodzfocus stacking?
14:13:58Saratoga_It's by angle
14:14:20Saratoga_It tried to get rid reflection and give a heads on view
14:14:29duo8what if i don't have access to one? i have several cameras
14:14:45Saratoga_Doesn't work that well but it's better than a normal cellphone camera
14:15:04Saratoga_Camera works too, just take care with lighting
14:19:45bilgusI find camera pcb shots to be terrible If you can fix the camera in place and get lots of light placd at the right angle it might be workable
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14:27:24gevaertspixelma: the font in question is a 20K file, so I doubt that's the issue
14:31:31pixelmawell, if it all adds up then a little something could push it over the edge
14:31:57pixelmaI remember having to reduce the size of the voice files on the Ondio now and then
14:33:04gevaertsTrue, but in this case they report that it works with some larger fonts
14:36:04bilgusConsidering who it is coming from I say till it can be reproduced it shall be ignored
14:36:59gevaertsbilgus: for one of them, true
14:37:11gevaertsBut the thread starter is someone else
14:38:46pixelmait was just an idea... yeah and the thread is already 5-6 months old
14:39:39bilgusAh, so confirmed so to speak, I noticed english-us is funky with voice but english seemed to work fine
14:41:45bilgusthen again the English-US one was self generated and the english downloaded sooooo
14:42:11pamaurypixelma: gevaerts: as far as I know, on targets with a small amount of memory (don't remember the threshold), font is not hold in memory, only common glyphs are cached
14:43:12bilgusand OP states 'pre-built voice'
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14:44:27gevaertspamaury: I think that's actually always the case, although the size of the cache might vary
14:44:50pamauryyeah you might be right
14:44:57gevaertsUnifont is 8.4MB, there's no way we reserve that much on any player
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15:07:16chrisjjpamaury, good thing I wasn't complaining about code and documentation not matching then eh? :-)
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15:09:35chrisjjWhat I was doing is seeing a user re report a problem and someone suggest he might find an answer in the manual, so I told the user that this feature does not work as the manual says.
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15:10:58chrisjjGlad to hear you think a patch would be welcome. However I think a patch to make the manual accurately describe how the code does work would be unwelcome to some, since it would make the code look pretty stupid.
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15:11:31chrisjjHowever if there's anyone who'd like to collaborate on sorting out the shuffle code, do say!
15:16:52pamauryI don't user the shuffler, so I don't know anything about it
15:18:17pamauryalso your suggestion is ridiculous, either you misunderstand the code and it's not stupid, or it is indeed stupid and can be fixed. Despite what you may think or say, we are not hiding things by rewriting the manual
15:19:32pamauryor maybe you use the shuffler for something it was not designed for, I don't know
15:21:14chrisjjI'm not suggesting anyone's hiding things by rewriting the manual. I'd guess the reason the manual doesn't accord is that no-one's rewriting it when the code changes.
15:23:30chrisjjI also think changing stupid code is not that easy. Some users are adapted to stupid code, and their use patterns can be broken by a change to sensible code that meets expectations of new RB users coming from standard players, such as furrywolf above.
15:24:54chrisjjI can't say whether I sue the shuffler for something it wasn't designed for. Because I can't tell what it was designed for. I can tell only what RB shuffle does (which is not what shuffle normally does) and what the manual says RB does (which is not what RB does).
15:25:48chrisjjIf you have a go at using shuffle yourself, I think you'll see what I mean.
15:29:10pamauryI don't see anything wrong with, I added a directory to play, enable shuffle and it's shuffled
15:29:29pixelmaRockbox shuffle does what I expect it too.
15:30:02chrisjjISTM the UI suggests shuffle is designed a playback mode, whereas the command behaviour suggests it is designed as a playlist modifier.
15:30:02pamauryit's a shuffle, ie it's not random advance
15:30:31chrisjjThis could be just because this is the work or two designers... or no designers :-)
15:30:56pamauryit's can be a playback mode, shuffle cannot apply to one song, it applies to a list, and in this case the current playlist
15:31:17pamaury*it can't be
15:31:57pamaurydo you have a simple example that demonstrates a behavior you don't expect so that we can at least understand ?
15:32:29chrisjjI think you'd find it useful to actually try it. RB does not operate as a playback mode on the current playlist, despite what one would think from itehr players, from the RB UI, and perhaps from the manual.
15:32:56chrisjjRe example, good idea. I'll write one up.
15:33:38pamauryI'm trying it right now, it's working exactly as I expect so far
15:33:57pamauryshuffle mode shuffles the playlist
15:36:56chrisjjFor some idea of why what it does is not necessarily what others expect and want it to do, see above around "[03:39] <furrywolf> shuffle seems broken by design".
15:39:32pamauryat best that's an argument that the manual is not clear enough about what it does. You can't call a feature broken if it does something entirely different from what you expect
15:40:30chrisjjI think the reason he's calling it broken is that is does something entirely different from what he'd expect from other players, and from the RB UI.
15:42:02chrisjjI'll write that example.
15:42:04chrisjjBye for now.
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15:59:52duo8pamaury does your X1 have serial pins?
16:01:19pamauryduo8: I never opened mine, but pcb scans I've seen show no sign of serial pins on the X1
16:01:51duo8my m2 has some that may be serial, but not sure if they're connected
16:02:46duo8i also have some crappy pcb shots if you think it's worth adding to the wiki
16:02:53duo8details on every chip too
16:03:56pamauryfor the M2 ?
16:04:29pamaurycrappy picture is better than no picture, so yeah please upload them to
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16:19:15Bilgus_phFORGET SHUFFLING Im far more worried about the panic on USB plug/unplug he was having on the dev release I assume he wasn't getting this on 3.13 with his ?fuze?
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16:30:17duo8if you think any of that is useful please add it to the wiki
16:31:14pamauryduo8: thanks, I'll do that
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17:11:28duo8wow this camera is even worse than my phone
17:11:37duo8the good one is out of battery, damn
17:17:18duo8pamaury < a few shots, please add whichever you find useful to the wiki
17:22:34duo8(btw it'd be nice if you can find out wat kind of connector it is on the battery)
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17:46:35furrywolfI'm downloading 3.13 now to see if it works less poorly.
17:49:29furrywolfusb works in 3.13. so it's regressed between stable and devel.
17:50:43duo8wasn't there a change in usb core?
17:51:26furrywolfI have absolutely no idea. But it worked before. It doesn't now. lol
17:52:11pamaurywhich target ?
17:52:33furrywolfsansa fuze v1
17:52:54pamaurythere was a change for amsv2 targets (fuzev2, fuze+, clipv2, clip+, clip zip), I don't think amsv1 have changed
17:53:14furrywolf3.13 behaves as expected - can mount the drives, etc. current devel reconnects constantly then panics with OOM errors from various places.
17:54:50duo8pamaury do you think a serial port would be useful?
17:56:25pamauryduo8: not sure, I've done all ports so far without it
18:03:31furrywolfheh! and "shuffle" works much better in 3.13 too
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18:13:31pamauryfurrywolf: like I said to chrisjj, unless you give us an example, we cannot know what you are referring to
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18:28:04duo8now i know why my battery rattles, they reduced the battery size without relocating the holders on the back cover
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18:34:05duo8wow look at this hitech microcontroller player:
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19:14:44furrywolfpamaury: an example of what?
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19:15:14pamauryfurrywolf: of shuffle that is not what you expect on current dev build
19:15:24pamauryalong with what it is on 3.13 and what you expect it to be
19:17:18furrywolfok, first of all, there's the entire idea of how shuffle works - re-arranging the playlist itself instead of just picking the next track to play in a non-linear fashion, like every other shuffle. for specific examples, if shuffle is already set to on when you use insert, no shuffling happens, and you have to toggle shuffle off and back on. sometimes even that doesn't make it shuffle, but I haven't identified what determines whether it w
19:17:54pamauryfurrywolf: shuffle is not random advance
19:17:59pamauryit's shuffle
19:19:05pamauryonce shuffled, order is deterministic, but the shuffle itself uses a random seed, that way you will play each song exactly once but in a random order
19:19:52furrywolfyes, I noticed. I also noticed that it makes it a total pain in the ass to select a track manually unless you un-shuffle and re-shuffle.
19:20:21furrywolfwhile everyone else's shuffle still lets you manipulate the playlist in an un-shuffled fashion.
19:20:36furrywolfbecause it's only changing the playing order, not the actual playlist. :)
19:21:00duo8rockbox is designed around playlists iirc
19:21:07duo8so it makes sense
19:21:22furrywolfsometimes it simply won't shuffle, period. I didn't identify why. Using "insert" while shuffle is turned on seems to be a factor, as the inserted tracks are never shuffled.
19:21:43duo8also, this allows you to go back one track then advance to the same one as before, which i like
19:21:46pamaurythat's why there is insert and insert shuffle, iirc
19:22:00furrywolfI couldn't reliably reproduce it not being shuffled even after turning shuffle off and back on.
19:22:10furrywolfand unreproducable bugs are best!
19:22:50furrywolfa bigger issue is the broken USB in devel. with devel I can not mount the drive nor charge the player. I had to use the stock firmware to downgrade...
19:23:25duo8i had this issue once where tracks would stop or skip randomly
19:23:38duo8was never able to figure out why
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19:24:47furrywolfwith devel, upon connecting the usb cable, it shows the usb plug screen, then immediately disconnects from the computer and starts reloading the playlist. then it switches back to the usb plug screen. sometimes it makes it to the main menu first, sometimes not. after a few rounds of this it dies with an OOM in one of a few places.
19:24:49duo8also don't bother with data transfer over usb
19:25:13furrywolfif you boot with the usb cable connected, it either does the same thing, or just flashes to a solid white screen after the first couple lines of loading and hangs.
19:25:45furrywolfthe OOM error suggests something is leaking and/or causing major corruption.
19:25:51pamauryyou need to find a developer with a fuze for the USB problem
19:26:24furrywolfUSB behaves properly in 3.13, so it's a regression since then.
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19:28:06Guest52801does anyone know if the iriver h340 can dualboot with an ssd installed?
19:28:25pamauryprof_wolfff: ping
19:28:29furrywolfthe leak/corruption might be unrelated to the looping connect/disconnect issue... that is, it might leak every time the usb cable is connected, but the leak only runs it out of memory when it loops.
19:28:56pamauryprof_wolfff: do you have a fuzev1 ?
19:29:19furrywolfreally, the other fuze owner is also a wolf? :)
19:29:30pamaurythat might be a symptom of somethin, the fuzev1 is one of the target with the least amount of memory
19:30:00furrywolfspeaking of targets, there's nothing for an archos gen4, right?
19:30:33pamauryMihail (logs): can you have a look at this on the fuzev1 ?
19:31:14furrywolfsomeone gave me one with a bad hard drive, and I found out you can't replace the harddrive, as the stock firmware intentionally prevents you from doing so to force you to buy a more expensive model with a bigger drive, rather than diy-upgrade your current one.
19:32:12pamaurynot as far as I know, also those are really old right ?
19:32:38duo8furrywolf you might be able to work around that somehow
19:32:42furrywolfbut newer than some of the supported archos models
19:33:21furrywolfif it takes work, it's not worth it. heh.
19:33:29duo8but it's FUN
19:34:17Guest52801there was also an issue with the Cowon X5 and flash storage, where you couldn't use the OF, but changing the partition type helped here. so, can this also be done with the irivers?
19:35:21furrywolfon a slightly media player related note, what's the cheapest place to get a non-counterfeit 128gb microsd card to put in mine?
19:36:55Guest52801any iriver users here?
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19:56:09Bilgus_phWOLF can you try renaming the .cfg file in your .rockbox directory like config.cfg.old and then try the latest dev?
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20:12:07pamauryfurrywolf: ^
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20:15:26furrywolflatest being newer than the one I downloaded yesterday?
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20:23:20pamauryfurrywolf: it doesn't matter, you can use the same as yesterday
20:23:31pamaurybut try it without your old config.cfg
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20:37:09furrywolfhrmm, it won't do a re-install. "Creating output file failed"
20:37:32furrywolfand, of course, it doesn't tell me what file, where, or why. I really hate useless errors.
20:38:53furrywolf"[875464.130760] FAT-fs (sde): error, fat_free_clusters: deleting FAT entry beyond EOF"
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20:41:33furrywolfcorruption on the internal flash, probably from crashing so much? heh
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20:43:42pamauryuse fsck
20:44:05furrywolfbreakfasting, will do in a bit
20:48:52furrywolfit seems to be broken worse than dosfsck can fix.
20:48:54furrywolfInternal error: didn't find cluster 7471 in chain starting at 7465
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21:00:37furrywolfany idea how to forcefully unlink a directory entry?
21:00:45furrywolf.rockbox is corrupted to the point of uselessness now
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21:06:04pamauryfurrywolf: sorry no clue, which command line are you running currently ?
21:06:23pamauryI think fsck has a mode where it asks you questions
21:06:31Bilgus_phDoes your device verify files in the OF? Should have a format command in it if you can get to it
21:07:05furrywolfyes, it asks me questions, and all answers lead to internal errors of various forms. heh.
21:07:12furrywolfincluding using the backup fat
21:07:15pamauryfurrywolf: man says fsck has an option -d <dir/file> to delete a file
21:08:21pamauryfurrywolf: I suggest you look at the man of fsck.vfat, there are various option that may help. Otherwise just reformat
21:09:21Bilgus_phI doubt the backup fat is going to be any better i doubt its the fat that is corrupted just the file
21:09:29furrywolfcan I reformat without screwing up the stock firmware?
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21:19:10Bilgus_phFor sure if you do the format through the OF and can't say for sure if you do it externally
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21:33:10furrywolfheh, dosfsck can't handle a . with more than three letters after it... like .rockbox
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21:34:36furrywolfI don't know if that's dosfsck's bug or your bug... are you using a filename that's not a valid fat filename? :)
21:39:53pamaurynot it's a valid filename
21:40:05pamaurymaybe a dosfsck bug
21:40:16pamaurynames with a starting . are not common on windows
21:41:34furrywolfI think I've found a half dozen bugs in dosfsck just trying to track down this one. but now it's moot, as I reformatted the flash and it seems to still have working stock firmware. heh.
21:42:07furrywolfmore than three letters after a dot breaks it. a trailing slash breaks it. and I'm not sure -d is actually implemented anywhere.
21:42:19furrywolfplus the multiple internal errors it's given trying to fsck it...
21:50:42furrywolfok, I've reinstalled the dev version onto a freshly formatted drive. what did you want me to check, and do I still need to rename the presumably new .cfg file?
21:53:26pamauryfurrywolf: basically reset all settings or simply remove/rename .rockbox/config.cfg
21:53:41pamauryso that you use the default settings
21:53:54bilguswell he did format so should be default
21:54:15pamauryyeah but maybe he copied the directory over from the old install
21:54:40furrywolfno, I use the automatic install tool, onto a fresh drive.
21:55:03pamauryok, then it's good then
21:55:07furrywolfso I should see if shuffle and/or usb behave differently?
21:55:21bilgusoh and while .rockbox is a valid FAT/FAT32 filename you can't create the directory on windows
21:55:27pamauryshuffle will be the same, we explained already why shuffle is shuffle. But retry usb
21:56:15furrywolfusb is now repeatedly disconnecting while the device is frozen on the main menu
21:56:37furrywolfno response to controls
21:57:23furrywolfbooting with the usb cable connected freezes on the splash/version screen
21:57:34furrywolfwhile it repeatedly reconnects
21:57:55bilgusOk well leave it d/c for now lest we corrupt it again
21:58:02furrywolfI have no media on it at all yet, nor have I played a track, or otherwise interacted with it in any way other than the power button and usb plug. heh.
21:58:03 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:58:13furrywolfand it's a fresh format
21:58:26furrywolfso that pretty definitively rules out any type of configuration or state issue.
21:59:06bilgusand you said its a fuze v1?
21:59:28furrywolfreinstalling 3.13 now, so I have a usable device.
21:59:45bilgushold on for a second
22:00:07bilguslet me find where the USB core changed and you can try that one
22:00:22furrywolf3.13 usb is still working fine
22:00:52bilgussure but thats wayyyyy back
22:01:31pamauryI doubt it's a usb issue
22:01:59furrywolfway back, but works. so someone broke something that worked. :)
22:02:32pamauryit sounds like a memory problem, since he had an OOM panic screen before and the fuzev1 is very very tight on memory
22:04:19 Join [Saint] [0] (~sinner@rockbox/staff/saint)
22:04:24furrywolfit only OOM paniced after several disconnects and reconnects. it no longer seems to do that, likely because I don't have a playlist. I suspect it's failing to free the playlist somewhere, and recreating them until it runs out of ram.
22:04:38furrywolfthe disconnects and reconnects caused the oom issue, not the other way around.
22:06:06pamauryalso I'm pretty sure there were no major usb changes related to amsv1, the amsv1 usb driver has been stable for a long time
22:06:20pamaurythe only solution it to bisect
22:06:24pamauryto find the problematic commit
22:13:41furrywolfwhen it connects to usb, where does it free the playlist? (I have no idea where things are in this code.)
22:23:40bilgusI was under the impression threads were suspended when usb was connected
22:24:22bilgusand ones that weren't give a usb ack promising to not do and FS stuff
22:24:30 Join Mihail [0] (25d456c1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:25:27furrywolfit reloads the playlist when usb is disconnected...
22:27:54bilgusyep the queue waits for DC
22:28:23bilgusbut that is just a symptom not the actual problem
22:30:00Mihailpamaury, furrywolf: I have similar problem with USB on AMSv1 before when I try build with new gcc. With old gcc (4.4.x) USB should work. Not sure what wrong, but probably we have UB or problem with optimization in new gcc
22:30:30pamauryMihail: we haven't changed gcc for arm as I recall
22:30:55furrywolfI've found most gcc version issues are not gcc bugs...
22:32:17furrywolf(that is, the bug is in your code, but it only causes a problem when gcc does something different but still correct)
22:33:02 Quit diox (Remote host closed the connection)
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22:33:47Mihailundefined behavior
22:34:27pamauryfurrywolf: it's not that simple though, in system development we use a lot of nonstandard stuff, it's relatively easy to break
22:35:09pamauryMihail: I'm still confused about your comment
22:35:21pamaurywe still use gcc 4.4.x on the build system for arm
22:35:46furrywolfI've done a bit of embedded coding, but have not written my own usb drivers. heh.
22:35:49 Part robertd1
22:36:03bilgusRe: USB Fuzev1 seems this has been an issue before
22:36:45Mihailpamaury: you right - we still have 4.4.4
22:36:59pamauryMihail: do you have a fuzev1 around ? can you try the dev build and see if you can reproduce it ?
22:37:21pamaurynewer gcc have a lot of optimizations, some of them break code that's quite annoying
22:37:28MihailI can check clip v1 and c200v2, but I still not repaired fuze v1 :(
22:37:37furrywolfthat issue seems entirely unlike the issue I'm having.
22:38:34furrywolfit virtually never even gets to the point where it tells the computer it's a mass storage device, much less copying files to it.
22:39:38lebelliumIf needed I can try to test some things on my Fuze v1 this weekend. Not tonight though
22:39:58 Join preglow_ [0] (~thomj@2a00:9080:1:98c::1e)
22:40:21pamauryMihail: maybe try clipv1, I think they are quite close
22:40:54bilgusfurrywolf do you still have the dev version installed?
22:41:10furrywolfno, I went back to 3.13. but they're very easy to swap...
22:41:35pamauryhum actually I'm confused, it' the clipv1 that is very low on memory, fuzev1 has 8MB so should be plenty
22:41:42bilgusI was just wondering what your USB stack looked like
22:41:48 Quit preglow (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
22:42:55furrywolfpamaury: my guess, based entirely on previous coding experience and not based in any way on actually being able to figure out your code, is that every time it tries reloading the playlist it hasn't freed the last one.
22:43:21furrywolfbilgus: what part of the usb stack, and how would I determine it?
22:43:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:43:52bilgusMain menu>system>Debug>os stacks
22:44:21furrywolfwith it connected to usb?
22:45:06bilgusjust prior and after a plug unplug
22:45:16furrywolfk, putting dev back on
22:46:17bilgusit ll have a list with with for ex 1: B 18 18 5% USB
22:47:25furrywolfdo you want a specific one, or all ten?
22:47:40bilgusjust the usb
22:47:50furrywolfB 18 18 7% usb
22:48:00Mihailcan't reproduce problem with USB on clip v1
22:48:00bilgusanything over say 50%
22:48:01pamauryI'm not sure the stack usage is going to be helpful
22:48:18pamaurythere is very little code running on the usb stack
22:48:28furrywolfit froze upon connecting the usb cable
22:49:16pamauryit needs some tracing to see what events are generated and how the various threads respond to the usb connection event
22:49:16furrywolfmy computer says it's reconnecting every few seconds agan
22:49:25furrywolfit un-froze when the cable was unplugged, now usb is 22%
22:50:16pamauryfirst I would try to do logging in the usb driver, because you can't rely on the host to understand what is really happening
22:50:31bilgusdid you say you disabled usb HID earlier?
22:50:45pamauryfurrywolf: does it freeze if you plug usb when pressing a key ?
22:51:01furrywolfkern.log shows a continual stream of "[883454.800244] usb 8-1.1: new high-speed USB device number 36 using ehci_hcd" "[883459.908269] usb 8-1.1: device descriptor read/all, error -110". rarely it will get to where it actually's enumerated and mass storage gets loaded, but it's immediately followed by a usb disconnect when it does.
22:51:24furrywolfbilgus: that install was reformatted. it's enabled now.
22:51:46pamauryfurrywolf: can you disable usb hid and try to plug usb while holding a key (so that it disables mass storage)
22:52:15furrywolfheh, it just paniced when I tried putting my microsd card in. microsd init failed -2
22:52:16 Quit fs-bluebot (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:52:16 Quit bluebrother (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:52:51furrywolfapparantly it doesn't like hotplugging cards?
22:53:13pamaurysome drivers are picky, if you insert too slowly, it will try to init too early and fail
22:53:35pamauryand for some reason the developper decided to panic instead of silently failing or retrying init
22:54:13furrywolfpowering it on with the usb cable connected and holding a button (select) puts it into bootloader usb mode.
22:54:33furrywolfwhich seems to have successfully connected and exposed the internal flash (but not the sd card) over usb
22:54:58bilguswell the bootloader works atleast
22:55:28furrywolf... the manual clearly said holding select would boot it with usb charging only.
22:55:29bilgusbut you would do this once already powered on into RB disable HID mode the hold button and plug usb
22:55:34furrywolfnot into bootloader usb mode.
22:55:48furrywolfI already disabled hid mode.
22:56:20pamauryfurrywolf: bootloader mode is completely different
22:56:40pamauryfurrywolf: power on without usb cable to get normally rockbox, then hold a button and plug usb
22:57:06furrywolfholding select with it on, then plugging the usb cable while holding, causes it to freeze just like I was not holding anything.
22:57:29 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother)
22:57:44furrywolfI'm creating a playlist now, since that made it do different things yesterday.
22:57:45pamauryso that points to a real usb driver issue then
22:58:17pamauryif you hold a button when plugging usb, the threads won't even be notified of the insertion
22:58:48pamauryme is lying a little bit but not too much
22:59:28furrywolfit gets to a different random point in the usb enumeration process
22:59:44 Quit diox (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
22:59:48furrywolfthe last time it managed to get the serial number before it stopped talking to it.
23:00:11bilgusdo you have another pc you could try this on?
23:00:27furrywolfnot easily
23:00:42bilguswhat about another OS?
23:00:44furrywolfI have another laptop that's burried under two snap-on modises and some tools...
23:01:24furrywolfI can plug it into one of the MODISes. is WinCE useful? :)
23:01:38bilguswas it ever :p
23:01:45Mihailfurrywolf: try this build
23:02:20furrywolfI can't reproduce the same looping it was doing yesterday... yesterday it would loop further each time, and try reloading the playlist each time, now the connect/disconnect loops are too fast for it to do that.
23:03:01CtcpIgnored 6 channel CTCP requests in 9 hours and 11 minutes at the last flood
23:03:01*bilgus kids I rather loved programming my wince GPS units
23:03:14furrywolfI guess I need to read the manual install steps... I've been using the pointyclicky tool.
23:03:44bilgusit literally does the same thing just copies to folder to the right place
23:03:58furrywolfwith the faster connect/disconnect cycling, it doesn't OOM, probably because it's not trying to load the playlist repeatedly and getting interrupted each time.
23:05:09furrywolfdownloading zip... so what do I do with it when it's done?
23:05:28Mihailunpack it to player
23:05:44furrywolfin root of internal flash?
23:05:50pamauryMihail: what does this build do ?
23:06:01furrywolfI'll need to remember how to unzip things... I haven't used a zip file in roughly forever. :P
23:06:04 Join MrZeus1 [0] (~MrZeus@2a02:c7f:7025:ed00:d423:b7b0:ac40:19df)
23:06:36furrywolfpamaury: it's the special build that uses the usb hid mode to open a terminal and rootkit my box.
23:07:00Mihailpamaury: I think it can be my changes in i2c so I want check
23:08:27furrywolfdownloaded, unzipping
23:08:30 Join diox [0] (
23:09:19furrywolfce90something or other?
23:09:48furrywolfusb works
23:10:09furrywolfno freeze, shows plug graphic, mass storage devices enumerated happily
23:10:22 Join fs-bluebot [0] (
23:10:39furrywolflast bar of battery flashes. :)
23:10:49pamauryMihail: which commit is that ?
23:12:03furrywolfheh, it's already the 20th where you are? we're all dreading when it's the 20th here...
23:13:15pamauryMihail: so your commit fix it makes it worse ? ;)
23:13:36furrywolfhow do I view that commit on the web git interface?
23:13:41*furrywolf is curious
23:13:51 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507])
23:14:40pamaurya damn he was faster
23:15:08bilgusugh that commit fixed my clip+ usb
23:15:17furrywolfso non-interrupts version is simpler, faster, and buggier? :)
23:16:01pamaurywell it fixes usb on amsv2
23:16:07Mihailfurrywolf: try
23:16:38furrywolfhrmm, it changes from int to void... is something somewhere depending on that return value, and doing something undefined?
23:18:08 Quit petur (Quit: Leaving)
23:19:20pamauryMihail: what is the relationship between usb and i2c/ascodec ?
23:19:56Mihailwe detect usb and charging through it
23:19:58pamauryis adc used to detect usb ?
23:21:08furrywolfdownloaded, unzipping
23:21:12furrywolfwhat does this version change?
23:22:56furrywolfthis one does not work.
23:23:07furrywolfit shows the usb graphic, but doesn't enumerate
23:24:51furrywolfand the second plug it just froze at the main menu, like the dev build
23:28:09pamauryMihail: isn't it a bit dangerous to call ascodec_read() in INT_AUDIO ?
23:28:46pamauryor does ascodec_lock() also disable interrupts ?
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23:29:11furrywolfand, to double check, went back to the -0 one, it still works correctly.
23:32:57 Quit n3m9 (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:33:39furrywolfprobably not relevant, since nothing seems to depend on the return value, but different targets declare readbytes as various void or int... just something I find annoying.
23:34:23Mihailpamaury: ascodec_read should work in any case (with or without interrupt)
23:35:16pamauryMihail: I mean, what if INT_AUDIO is called when ascodec is locked ?
23:35:23 Quit alexweissman (Remote host closed the connection)
23:37:44pamaurythe first thing ascodec_read() does is to call ascodec_lock()
23:37:48pamaurywhich locks a mutex
23:38:21 Quit bertrik (Quit: "This incident will be reported")
23:39:02Mihailit will wait until ascodec_read will be done, right?
23:41:22pamauryif you are in an interrupt, nothing else is running
23:42:08Mihailshit, you right :)
23:42:10pamaurythat's why you can't lock in an interrupt
23:42:32pamauryat best you could busy wait on i2c_busy
23:42:47pamaurybecause eventually the transfer will be done, but i2c is slow, that may take a while
23:42:56 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
23:43:14pamaurywhat is the purpose of INT_AUDIO ?
23:43:49pamaury(since it's obviously not related to audio :) )
23:44:20Mihailcharge and usb detect :)
23:44:44Mihailgood idea with i2c_busy - I try
23:46:16pamauryI only see three possibilities: busy polling (works but slow and makes interrupt very long), dedicated thread with signal (irq fires signal, thread wakes up and does the ascodec_read) or async read
23:46:41jhMikeSthe (proper) old i2c driver could initiate async reads or writes from an ISR
23:47:05jhMikeSthat shit change should be reverted imo
23:47:12furrywolfdon't poll in interrupts. eww.
23:47:37pamaurybut the old code breaks usb on amsv2 for unknown reasons so it's not great either
23:48:14furrywolf"Built-in WiFi allows you to access Kobo's eBook store which offers over 4 million eBooks" do not want. can I simply transfer files to it over usb?
23:48:17furrywolfgrr, wrong window
23:51:09bilgusbreaks is putting it nicely
23:52:33jhMikeSpamaury: how could it? usb did work
23:53:05pamauryjhMikeS: ask bilgus and Mihail, I don't know
23:53:30jhMikeSwith voltage scaling? that thing is sensitive to priority.
23:54:34bilgusPrior to that I could plug usb and 1/10 it got mounted after 20 mins or so
23:54:42MihailjhMikeS: you have solution to fix old code?
23:54:42jhMikeSI hope the driver doesn't mask all interrupts because they should be able to preempt lower priotity ones or you get audio problems
23:55:21jhMikeSMihail: I don't think the driver code itself is terribly at fault, if at all.
23:55:28bilgussince when do you get audio while usb is plugged?
23:55:43pamauryif you plug while holding a button
23:55:51jhMikeSMihail: I noticed v2 to be picky about the interrupt priority order when allowing interrupts during interrupts
23:55:52furrywolfif y
23:55:53pamaury(ie charging only)
23:56:03furrywolfbah, you typed faster. :)
23:56:21bilgusI'd call that charging though not usb
23:56:24pamauryinterrupt nesting can the tricky if you are not careful
23:56:35pamaurybilgus: but usb driver is up and running
23:56:44bilgusoh ic
23:56:45furrywolfinterrupt nesting can result in stack overflows very easily. :)
23:56:55jhMikeSbilgus: I meant about the operation of the driver in general. It can't mask interrupts altogether during an i2c transfer.
23:57:43jhMikeSfurrywolf: already calculated worst case for that. only > current priority preempts
23:58:38pamauryI think it's clear that commit c7daef36c5c75 has a huge problem, I think we should revert it and I find the real problem with the old code. It is possible that it, in fact, just hide the real problem

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