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#rockbox log for 2017-02-02

00:08:41Bray90820Can I record from an external source to MP3 players SD Card with Rockbox
00:08:53Bray90820It's a DX90 to be exact
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00:18:12[Saint]Bray90820: I haven't tested this on the DX players specifically, but, if your device has a dedicated line in or external mic capability, then, yes.
00:18:50Bray90820[Saint]: How would I do so?
00:19:08[Saint]just set the recording source to line in, if it's not present as a recording source, you'll kill two birds with one stone in regard to your answer.
00:19:58[Saint]manual linked for ipod, but the premise is identical:
00:21:23[Saint]for the recording destination, this is set via the context menu in the file browser.
00:21:42[Saint]the recording destination can be set to any arbitrary path.
00:26:41Bray90820[Saint]: How would I invoke the context menu
00:27:44[Saint]Oh wow - you've never discovered the context menu? Shit's gonna get a whole lot easier for you...
00:28:05 Part __builtin (" - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
00:28:07[Saint]'long select' on paths and menu options invokes context sensitive menus.
00:28:38[Saint]it's kinda hard to believe you've managed to cope without it for so long. Our full menus are a bitch to navigate.
00:29:37Bray90820Long select as in hold play down until the menu comes up?
00:32:11Bray90820[Saint]: ?
00:32:38[Saint]I would elect to use the touchscreen, but if that works for you, go for it.
00:33:25Bray90820Well I don't see any recording setting in there
00:34:20[Saint]This will very much depend on how you're trying to achieve it.
00:34:29[Saint]It's called a context menu because it's context sensitive.
00:35:05[Saint]Files - <navigate to path desired> - long-select - Set As Recording Directory
00:36:00Bray90820That's exactly what I did but Set as recording directory isn't there
00:36:03[Saint]Should be third from the bottom in the 'Files' context menu.
00:36:46Bray908203rd from the bottom for me is Properties
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00:38:19[Saint]Interesting. Hard to imagine how this would be being screwed up. The code that governs this isn;t meaningfully device specific.
00:38:58Bray90820Well where should I go from here
00:39:03[Saint]If you bring up the context menu on the 'Recording' entry in the main menu, do you have 'Clear recording directory'?
00:39:07Bray90820Could it be my theme that is screwing it up?
00:39:35Bray90820There is no recording entry in the main menu
00:40:17[Saint]Well...there we go then. You would need a target that actually had recording enabled.
00:40:37[Saint]I thought if you were asking about this that it in fact was.
00:40:58[Saint]I knew it wasn't last time I looked at mine but that was aaaaaaaaaaaages ago and I presumed that had changed.
00:41:19[Saint]Sorry, I thought if you were asking about recording that the target actually supported it.
00:41:28[Saint]If there's no menu entry for it, it does not.
00:41:28Bray90820It does have the proper line out stuff for recording so I'm surprised it's not there
00:41:55Bray90820The hardware supports it software does not :/
00:41:58[Saint]What the OF does and doesn't have has little to no bearing on what Rockbox does or doesn't do.
00:42:29Bray90820Idk if the official firmware has recording or not
00:42:46Bray90820I just know the hardware is capable
00:42:58[Saint]Nor I. I have a DX80 and a DX90 and they have about 20 minutes combined power on time between them.
00:43:10[Saint]I can't even offhand think of where they are, though I have a rough idea.
00:43:34[Saint]If they're not where I think they are my brother in law probably sold them for meth. He's a cool guy.
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00:47:31Bray90820Is there a Rockbox manual for the DX90
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01:17:05Bray90820Looks like I can't record with it then :/
01:17:41Bray90820It sucks because the Hardware is completely capable
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01:40:52[Saint]Something something, patches welcome.
01:41:06[Saint]Pretty sure the guy doing the DX port like...died. Or something.
01:41:12[Saint]Or fell in a big hole.
01:41:57[Saint]To be fair, there's no really a shitload of sense in using Rockbox on an "HD" player to begin with.
01:42:18[Saint]Everything's going to be crippled to 16/48 max anyway.
01:42:50[Saint]So very high bit depth and samplerate players are pretty meaningless in the given context.
01:44:01[Saint](I's irrelevant anyway, but audiophiles want their feels intact and their jimmies unrustled and refuse to see sense or understand even the most basic concepts of sampling theory or the capabilities of human hearing)
01:44:20[Saint]But that's a whole other discussion.
01:45:26jhMikeSIt's not a hopelessly difficult thing to change if it's not stupid to do it.
01:47:22[Saint]yeah, the latter kinda negates the former there.
01:47:38[Saint]the only time it makes sense is in a studio recording environment.
01:47:49[Saint]and you're not going to be using a consumer DAP for that...
01:49:51jhMikeSlimiting to 48 was quite deliberate, not strictly necessary
01:51:57[Saint]Oh I know.
01:52:16jhMikeScause we know some well-meaning folks (bless their hearts) would do
01:52:54[Saint]I'm just saying that even if it was necessary, and suddenly became unnecessary, there's still no reason to do it in a consumer audio device.
01:53:19[Saint]it's a classic example of bigger not always being better.
01:53:27[Saint]and in this case often working out worse.
01:55:53jhMikeSI should make it buildable for 32-bit samples too. 192kHz is just a config thing. Then wait for the "audiophile" special builds to pop up.
01:59:17jhMikeSthen again, I'm saying this to 10-band-eq guy (iirc)
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02:35:13[Saint]I never intended people to /use/ all ten bands. :)
02:36:23[Saint]Some levelling required more than three bands and high and low shelves, and the preset scopes of the bands make it easier than dicking around changing the frequency of the existing bands to the scope you're targeting.
02:36:43[Saint]Though I did batch convert the old presets in an ugly way, so, it's a fair call.
02:37:32[Saint]I really should fix that up and recreate those curves in a sane way. Just plain not shipping presets was only supposed to be a temporary fix.
02:39:05__builtin[Saint]: it would be rather nice to ship presets
02:40:38[Saint]Yeah, it would, I just never got around to finding a sane way of converting EQ curve presets to N band parametric plot curve presets.
02:40:56[Saint]It's easy enough to work out by hand but it's a pain in the ass.
02:41:38__builtinwhat's the problem exactly? interpolating from 5 to 10 bands or what?
02:43:05[Saint]You're aware of how a parametric EQ functions? It has both a target frequency, and a q-factor that determines bleed into adjacent bands.
02:44:11[Saint]So, for instance, what would take maybe...8 bands on a very simple "Rock" preset, can be done with, for instance, high and low shelves and possible one other band with very high q-factors instead.
02:44:45*__builtin isn't exactly an audio expert ;)
02:45:02__builtinbut that makes sense now
02:45:23[Saint]The annoying thing is that it is absurdly difficult to visualize on-device without something to actually display the curve that you're generating.
02:45:49[Saint]Which is a large part of the reason why people end up using our fancy parametric EQ like a dumb simple EQ.
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04:06:00Bilgus_not to mention the changes in q are hard to hear unless you get rid of everything but the frequency you are on
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13:07:30pamauryBilgus_: I find you "boot from other volume" patch suspicious
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13:51:02Bilgus_does it look at you sideways or something?
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13:55:03pamauryBilgus_: yes, I wrote a comment ;)
13:55:18Bilgus_ah I see your comment now as far as I could tell the drives enumerate from the lowest index
13:56:09pamauryyou patch is fine in the sense that "it loads from another storage" but it seems useless to me because the binary you load, still loads everything from the main storage
13:56:37Bilgus_Mihail has one to wipe out the internal drive but I dislike that immensely, I was just debating this morning how to go about indicating boot drive
13:56:40pamauryso you cannot throw a .rockbox/ directory on the sd card and expect it to load everything from there basically, it won't work
13:57:14Bilgus_on the clip+ yes it works but I haven't looked into other players as of yet
13:57:22pamauryI think the cleanest way would be for the bootloader to indicate to rockbox what drive to use as main. For example by passing a structure
13:57:47pamauryBilgus_: I don't see how it works, the internal storage is still the first drive
13:57:51Bilgus_or passing a drive ID
13:58:01pamauryif you wipe out the first drive, it won't find the theme, codecs, etc
13:58:57pamauryin any case, all of this needs a serious discussion
14:00:27Bilgus_apparently not according to the boot loader in disk.c mount_all Mihail made starting index 1 instead of 0 and that had the effect of blocking the internal drive
14:01:05pamauryBilgus_: the problem is not the bootloader
14:01:27pamaurythe problem is the binary you load, unless it's a custom build, it
14:01:30pamaury''s useless
14:03:58pamauryalso it raises the fair question of whether you really want the bootloader to automatically prefer a rockbox on sd card over rockbox on internal storage, assuming the two are available (and rockbox can change its main drive based on bootloader hint)
14:04:03Bilgus_but I found at least on the clip+ booting from SD1 that the internal drive isn't enumerated anywhere but debug
14:04:30pamauryon a standard build ?
14:04:57Bilgus_Yep <HEAD>
14:05:12pamaurythat sounds more like a lucky side-effect of the bootloader not doing some init and is not redone by rockbox
14:05:26pamauryI can tell you for sure that it doesn't work on other targets
14:05:27Bilgus_could be?
14:05:38pamauryand there is no reason why it should work
14:07:34Bilgus_Agreed, but I was just fixing the hardcoded aspects of his first patch; now the behavior of booting from SD when a FW is present is pretty common in devices about the only thing I could see doing different is making it an explictly named file
14:08:23pamaurythere are still aspects I don't like. It is not clear to me that you want this behavior by default
14:08:40Bilgus_loke instead of looking for rockbox.sansa on the other volumes making it look for ext_rockbox.sansa or some other convention
14:08:56pamauryyou don't really want to change that
14:09:19pamaurybecause then you could'nt just unzip a build
14:09:57Bilgus_It would really suck to have to hold down a key if you wanted to boot externally
14:10:29pamauryit sucks if you boot from sd when you want to boot from internal
14:10:29Bilgus_having to rename it though does fit your requirement of not being default
14:10:51Bilgus_at least the sd is removable
14:11:00pamauryTo me the only proper approach is to scan all storages, boot if there is only one found, and ask the user if there are several
14:11:14Bilgus_thats an idea
14:11:20pamaurythat would mean removing the sd everytime, that sucks big time
14:12:48pamauryanyway, all of this is moot if rockbox cannot changes its main drive dynamically
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14:14:06Bilgus_you could present user with a menu that gives them a choice of this that etc, then this time Only, Always but I'm not sure of access to the .cfg file from BL
14:15:14Bilgus_by dynamically you mean (not) hardcoded in the FW file?
14:15:28pamauryyeah, currently main drive is drive 0, always
14:15:44pamauryand codecs, themes, etc are all loaded from there
14:16:19pamauryputting this setting in the cfg file doesn't really make sense, since it's a device setting, it would have to be separate file on the internal storage or stores in RTC/NVRAM
14:16:39pamauryand I am not sure what is value of remembering the setting
14:17:47*pamaury mentions that the situation for RaaA is far more complex
14:20:14Bilgus_I imagine it would be similar to a grub boot menu with the capability to set default
14:21:17pamaurythat requires discussion, to weight wether the benefit is worth the work to implement this
14:24:29Bilgus_I see that in Debug SD0 is the internal storage but I'm just not understanding why it works propely even battery bench wrote to the sd card
14:25:22Bilgus_maybe a sideeffect of the Clip+ and its SD NAND
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14:27:33pamaurymaybe it couldn't mount SD0 (for some reason) and thus mounted SD1 as root. To probbaly need to add some logf to disk.c to investigate
14:31:57Bilgus_IDK could be, I know the USB still allows me to access internal so maybe something has changed with Jhmikes un published pushes
14:41:33Bilgus_I'll try on my fuze+ soon and try to figure out whats going on on the Clip+ and see what Mihail has discovered thus far
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16:38:25mercutioit seems forum isn't working for me, is fiio x3 second generation working?
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17:35:27dyshehe, strings you don't want to see in a vendor firmware dump: "!!! FIX ME !!!"
17:36:52dysOTOH, porting rockbox does probably do exactly this
17:37:49dyspamaury: Another used one arrived today. Let's see how fast I can brick this one.
17:43:43duo8i kinda want to get the sony a25, but that meant giving up OGG
17:43:50duo8what format do you use?
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19:38:49saratogajhMikeS: looking at the dsp engine, is the only thing preventing 24 bit output that sample_output_stereo and sample_output_dithered output 16 bit? AFAICT everything else before the audio drives is 32 bit right?
19:44:40pamaurydys: cool :) try not to fry it this time ;)
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20:02:53dysah, unplugging the battery puts the system into a reboot loop. very convenient for poking around with an analog scope :-D
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20:17:59[Saint]pamaury: Bilgus_: I'm pretty sure that at least some of the clips were /already/ able to boot their main binary from the sdcard with the git head bootloader, and that it is very deliberate.
20:18:16[Saint]so this really sounds like a happy accident.
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20:18:42[Saint]but pamaury is absolutely right, all the other targets are just going to crash and burn.
20:23:02pamaury[Saint]: do you know how it is implemented ? I was not aware of this functionality
20:23:52[Saint]pamaury: No, sorry, never been much of a sansa AMS guy.
20:24:09[Saint]I'm just _overwhelmingly_ confident this functionality already existed.
20:24:32[Saint]Due to the very large volume of sandisk players that fuck their internal storage and need manual recovery.
20:28:24[Saint]yeah...looking at the code, it's definitely implemented in bootloader and RoLo.
20:28:28*pamaury doesn't see any special code in AMSv1/2 for that but it might be an odd trick
20:28:38[Saint]By Mihail no less.
20:29:18[Saint]mainpage leads me right to;a=commit;h=7cb1e5a
20:30:05[Saint]and there's approximately seventy bajillionteen references to this in the forums.
20:30:11[Saint]also with Mihail all over it.
20:30:29pamauryhum, this code says it's possible, but this particular code does not enable this feature
20:31:38[Saint]saratoga - I figure you're a god person to ask about this
20:32:08[Saint]since you're also allllll up in this on the forums and directly imply multiple times that a git head bootloader will get it done.
20:32:24[Saint]s/god/good/ - though, perhaps both apply.
20:33:09pamauryunder what circumstances is this "features" activated ? Like is it when the internal storage is dead ?
20:34:17pamauryI believe that the way rockbox work, if the internal drive somehow did not contain any valid partition, it would "naturally" load from the sd card, since I think it loads from the first valid partition found
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21:11:31saratoga[Saint]: I didn't pay much attention to that, I think it was a workaround for a player with dying flash memory
21:12:25johnb2yes, Mihail provided it for me
21:13:06saratogai think a lot of the clips were made with very poor quality flash memory, so its kind of a special hack for that player
21:14:54johnb2The player is still alive, but every now and then it wouldn't boot RB from internal. With the patch it loads from the SD instead.
21:15:08johnb2in such a case.
21:15:56johnb2and I was afraid of the internal flash dying completely. So better to have a safety net in place.
21:16:46saratogathe bootloader is still on flash though, so if it dies completely the player is still ruined
21:16:59saratogabut better than nothing
21:17:09saratogastill curious about replacing flash on the clips
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21:18:31Bilgus_phJohnb2: he just gave you a patch that hard coded the locs for the firmware file correct?
21:21:03Bilgus_phIve been looking through the bootloader on break and I really see no reason just loading the fw file from ext should make it ignore the root of internal storage but I'M probably missing something
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21:30:52pamauryhum, there is something strange the volume on the NWZ players. ALSA claims range 0..100 but the driver does not accept any value >=32. It accepts negative values but any value <=0 seems to mute the output. Volume 1 is already very loud and 31 is like so loud I can gear the music from several meters away from the headphones. Something is not right
21:40:05pamauryclearly the OF can go much lower in volume, but it also has a 0..31 volume range which is confusing :-/
21:40:33[Saint]saratoga: you state in the forums at least twice that one needs a git head bootloader, and a cursory glance seems to indicate that it's in place in the bootloader and RoLo code.
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21:41:20saratogadid I?
21:41:27[Saint]so at least at some point you definitely seemed to know what's going on.
21:41:47pamaury[Saint]: I think what is happening is actually nothing special
21:42:26[Saint]it seems like there's just logic in place to check the sdcard for .rockbox if it can't be located in internal.
21:42:57pamauryif the internal storage is dying and does not yield any valid partition, rockbox will boot from SD. What Mihail fixed is the fact that sansa uses the same pin to detect variant and select between stuff, thus this pin needs to be set to its original value when you boot/rolo
21:42:57[Saint]but like saratoga said, the bootloader still resides in the magic section of the NAND, so if it dies _completely_, you're still fucked.
21:43:23pamaury[Saint]: I can't see that logic anywhere, for me it's just a consequence of how mounting works
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22:21:01johnb2Bilgus: I have not yet tried the new patch with the hardcoded file locations. Mihail stated in the forum, that if you want codecs and config from SD too, you need to also apply the patch which only mounts the second drive.
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22:21:59johnb2In other words, codecs, config is always loaded from the first available drive.
22:23:07MihailI just enable SD card support in bootloader:;a=commit;h=79ca6d4e3cf6fcd2f05cca0a703200394920741f and fix sd card detecting in bootloader for variant 1:;a=commit;h=7cb1e5ae8b8014edca64f1fd187f4e1e6f3e99e3
22:24:16Mihailall others changes on forum - just hacks and should by reworked
22:25:21Bilgus_Hmm I didn't do the second patch at all I just made it run through the index of available volumes and it loaded fw from my SD config, fonts, themes were all non-existent
22:27:17MihailBilgus_: it will load all from SD if it can't mount internal drive
22:27:46Bilgus_My device doesn't have a problem with the internal drive
22:28:13Bilgus_see g#1550 that is literally all I did
22:28:15fs-bluebotGerrit review #1550 at : Add boot from other volumes in bootloader on targets with HAVE_MULTIVOLUME by William Wilgus
22:28:19johnb2True, but that didn't help me much because this special clip+ (often) crashes when RB tries to write onto internal, e.g. the file which indicates location of the currently played song.
22:30:03Bilgus_It made the internal drive virtually non-existent as far as RB is concerned I can still see it in DGB and I can still see it over usb but anywhere else it isn't there IE everything writes to the SD which don't get me wrong it exactally what I want but I'm wondering why
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22:39:26MihailBilgus_: but you just change order in bootloader. You should also change order in disk_mount_all() for checking ".rockbox" on SD first
22:39:54Bilgus_So it sounds like We need a define for HAVE_EXT_BOOT or something along those lines in players that support it
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22:40:43Bilgus_Mihail you mean your second patch?
22:40:53Bilgus_moving the index up by one?
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22:41:07Bilgus_yeah that made it so my player never booted the internal FW
22:41:23Bilgus_so if no card I just got PLUG USB
22:41:58Mihailso you should reverse cycle
22:42:20Bilgus_what I'm saying is I just patched what I poseted on gerrit and it Just Worked TM
22:42:41Mihailit can't :)
22:43:10Bilgus_I'm sitting here listening to the player lol
22:44:40Mihailare you still see internal drive in root and SD in /microSD1 ?
22:46:20Mihailwhat you see?
22:47:22Bilgus_in rockbox system>info INT shows the sd card 32 gb atm, MSD: Not Present
22:48:00Bilgus_File browser shows root of the sd card no <drivex> or anything
22:48:23Mihailsome thing wrong as internal drive not mounted, you should check why
22:49:39Bilgus_debug disk info does show microSd 0 (is internal drive ) and microSd 1 which is ext
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22:50:23Bilgus_Well when I pull the card or remove rockbox.sansa from card it boots the internal and works as expected
22:50:43Bilgus_and when I plug USB I get both
22:51:47Bilgus_That is what Pamaury was alluding to as well
22:53:36Mihailyou should try build with logf and check reason why internal drive was not mounted
22:54:14Bilgus_K give me a bit
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23:14:31MihailBilgus_: this patch can be useful - it show numbers of retry and reinit in debug menu:
23:18:07*dys is hacking write support for the FM25Q32 into flashrom
23:18:42dysI read the correct device id, but the manufacturer ID is 0xfc instead of 0xf8
23:19:01dysI wonder if that mysterious second device is responding, too
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23:28:39Bilgus_Mihail I'm pretty sure it is because I'm an idiot
23:29:22Mihailwhat was wrong?
23:29:25Bilgus_I think I hasd applied your second patch to the FW file in the SD card because with logf enabled it is working properly
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23:32:27Bilgus_I'm pretty sure that is exactly it
23:33:02Mihailno problems :)
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23:34:32Bilgus_So then what needs to be done is to check for the internal drive and disable it based on the external fw being loaded
23:36:22Mihailyou should check is SD have ".rockbox" and if it have - mount it as first drive. But if it doesn't - remount it as second drive
23:36:42[Saint]why disable the internal?
23:37:06[Saint]I thought this was more about flipping it. Don't really see any need to cripple internal storage.
23:37:47Bilgus_well I think it will always write/ read to internal
23:38:52Bilgus_Mihail I think it would be better for the Bootloader to store the volume it booted from and return it when asked
23:40:11Mihailno, as SD can have "/rockbox.sansa" but don't have "/.rockbox" dir
23:40:53[Saint]you're gonna have to patch out RbUtil too.
23:41:07[Saint]so it doesn't just drop a new .rockbox in internal every time.
23:41:37Mihail[Saint]: good point
23:41:48[Saint]I have them occasionally.
23:42:43Bilgus_well first we need to have a long discussion on if this is even a wanted functionality or maybe just limited to the sansas
23:43:08Bilgus_if even that
23:43:59Mihailany drawbacks for others multi drive targets?
23:44:28Bilgus_like instead maybe we should have it in the sansa bootloader by default but only works with a special build or special filename
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23:45:23Bilgus_have to wait till tomorrow bbl
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23:46:12Mihailno, it should be very simple for end user - just unpack to SD card should be enough
23:47:03pamauryI am not sure I'm following exactly what is suggested but that seems like nontrivial work. You need the bootloader to boot from SD, AND to tell rockbox it booted from SD so that it can use it as first drive instead of internal. Just loading a new rockbox.sansa is not enough
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23:48:47Mihailpamaury: main rockbox just should check is SD card have ".rockbox" dir - if have change order of mount point
23:49:05pamauryyeah but that's a bad plan
23:49:06 Quit thomasjfox (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
23:49:21pamauryit hardcodes the fact that SD has priority over main
23:49:45pamauryif you ever want to change it, like having a menu, it breaks because it requires the bootloader and rockbox to have the same logic
23:49:51Mihailbut only when user put rockbox on it
23:50:06pamauryyeah even then, I don't like it
23:50:35Mihailmenu bad - as user should do choose every time
23:50:57pamauryas soon as you write a policy in the bootloader for that, it's written in stone because bootloaders hardly ever change for users, and this whole approach depends on the bootloader and rockbox to have the same policy
23:51:59pamauryif it's going to be implemented, it should at least be done properly, ie bootloader tells rockbox.xxxx what is the main storage
23:53:50Mihailif user don't put rockbox on sd card - all work as now. But if user put rockbox on sd card - it want boot from it, right?

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