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#rockbox log for 2017-04-09

00:00:46 Join prof_wolfff [0] (~prof_wolf@62.83.49.172.dyn.user.ono.com)
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01:08:36jhMikeSZagor: yep, the last 5 pushes haven't triggered anything
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03:20:23WilliamCDoes anyone have a recommended Rockbox compatible MP3 player?
03:20:48WilliamCMy Sansa CLip Zip is malfunctioning
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09:01:28duo8Sony players
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19:14:15autofsckkhi, some years ago somebody helped me with my ipod, the disk was bad and he told me how to fix it, it took some days but it worked again for some years, now it is dead again, i think is the same disk problem, i dont have money now to replace the disk so i would like to try that fix again, i dont remember how to do it and where to find the file i used, can somebody help me please? i have a classic ipod 1
19:14:21autofsckk60G, rockbox already installed
19:14:24autofsckk160G sorry
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20:57:39 Quit lebellium (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20:57:52 Nick lebellium_ is now known as lebellium (~chatzilla@ren77-h01-176-151-188-9.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
20:59:11pamaurylebellium: do you have a way of recording the output of your A10 with a computer ?
21:00
21:03:27johnb3pamaury: do you want this with the OF or your RB port?
21:06:33 Quit foo|sh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:10:26pamauryany should do
21:11:10johnb3I have the the A25. Would that do?
21:11:22 Join foolsh [0] (~starchase@162-204-199-234.lightspeed.sbndin.sbcglobal.net)
21:11:54pamauryyes that should do
21:12:30johnb3Then I can do thist tomorrow. Any particular music or just a sine wave?
21:12:41johnb3*this
21:14:07pamauryjohnb3: use a sine wave (for example https://www.dropbox.com/s/usgnv40pcsv7fqv/sine_tone.mp3?dl=0) and do the following:
21:14:07pamauryplay the sine way in repeat on mode. Then start with the highest possible volume and gradually decrease the volume (leave each volume step for a few seconds) until you reach 0. Then send me the recording
21:15:13pamauryyou should make sure that the recording volume is such that at the highest volume on the player, you are around 80% of the recording level
21:15:42johnb3Ok, I will do this tomorrow morning.
21:16:00pamaurythanks
21:18:45pamauryI expect the A10 and A20 have the same volume curve but that will a test to my theory if we cn have lebellium do the same
21:18:59lebelliumA10 and A20 are the same
21:20:08lebelliumI'm in vacations this week. I do have time but not necessarily the stuff to record
21:20:16lebelliumI brought the A10 with me though :)
21:20:43lebelliumI left the A20 at home
21:21:09pamauryI need proper recording, otherwise it's impossible to get proper sound levels
21:21:20 Join paulk-collins [0] (~paulk@gagarine.paulk.fr)
21:22:03pamauryI think the best approach to volume management is to know the volume curve for each player, and then adjust the pcm volume to fill the gaps. I believe the sound curve is essentially the same for each codec, so that's only a few of them
21:22:24pamaurybut I couldn't find the A10 by disassembly, it's too complicated
21:22:40lebelliumlooks like johnb3 can do it properly. I suggest using his recording for both A10 and A20. When I'm back home next week, I can compare and confirm you that volume is 100% identical on both players
21:23:30pamaurywhat matters is less the volume than how it decreases (ie how many dB you loose per step)
21:24:00pamauryon E580 the curve is like this: 3dB/step from step 0 to 10, then 2dB for another 10 steps, then 1dB/step
21:24:09johnb3Ok, you got me curious. I will do it right now.
21:24:22pamauryon older players (maybe E450, not sure), there are actually 100 steps
21:24:41lebellium100 steps in OF?!
21:24:52pamaurymaybe not in OF but in driver yes
21:25:03pamauryon A10 there are only 30 steps (compared to 31) but I don't know how they vary
21:25:31lebelliumthere are 31 steps on E580?
21:25:41pamauryyes, both OF and driver
21:25:59pamaury(at least driver, but I think OF has 30 steps too)
21:26:32lebelliumfrom what I can recally, Sony always used 30 steps in OF
21:26:36lebelliumrecall*
21:26:46lebelliumeven in very old players
21:27:36lebelliumSamsung too. 30 steps to be like an agreement somehow
21:27:46lebelliumseems*
21:27:58pamaurywell at that point I don't really care what the OF does anyway. What matters is this relate to dB
21:28:04pamaury*how this
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21:41:09 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~root@irssi/staff/TheLemonMan)
21:42:14johnb2pamaury: http://www.mediafire.com/file/agcbzwcdnq6sjwa/Sine_A25_30to0.flac
21:44:06pamauryjohnb2: thanks, let me have a look
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21:48:18pamauryjohnb3: your recording is a bit noisy but hopefully I still get something out of it
21:48:30johnb2Strange enough, at full volume it doesn't really look like a sine.
21:49:01johnb2Although audacity doesn't indicate any clipping.
21:49:38pamauryyeah this is very puzzling
21:50:27pamaurythere must be some clipping in the device audio path
21:50:34johnb2I can give it another try at my desktop computer.
21:51:38pamauryjohnb3: could you retry the high volume steps with another sine with much lower volume (ie set sine should have around 30% of the maximum volume in the file)
21:52:11johnb2yes
21:52:24pamaurythere is clearing some clipping => the first 6/7 steps have a lot of harmonic
21:52:36pamaurybut starting from step 8, the spectrum is very clear, with one peakk
21:54:42pamaurythe sound curve looks very similar: 1dB/step for highest 10 steps, then 2dB/step then 3dB/step
21:59:38johnb2the wave form doesn't improve on my laptop even after setting rec volume to the lowest volume in audacity and turning any windows amplificatin off.
21:59:47johnb2I will go to my pc.
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22:01:05pamauryjohnb3: I think it's internal clipping, that's why I think using a sine with lower volume (in the file) should fix the problem
22:01:23pamauryin any case, I can't help but notice that Sony massively screws up its volume curves
22:01:30 Join WilliamC [0] (~WilliamC@cpe-2606-A000-140E-4017-28FE-B43-BA1E-29D5.dyn6.twc.com)
22:01:37pamauryseriously what the use of a player if 1/3 of the volume step cause clipping??
22:02:03pamauryespecially on something like A10 which is supposed to be high-end
22:04:24 Quit _mt_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
22:09:45lebelliumWM1 is also high-end. Are they both high-end with €1000 difference? :D
22:13:49pamaurylebellium: the high-endness clips as prices increases ;)
22:15:14lebelliumI think the volume curve may also be different with a capped vs uncapped device
22:15:40pamauryit's possible the absolute volume changes, but I hope/believe the shape of the curve doesn't, ie it's only shifted
22:16:01pamaurybut this will need some checking
22:16:26pamauryin any case, with that in mind I could use both driver volume and pcm volume to have an extended range with dB precision
22:16:53johnb2I reduce the amplitude of the sine, now it looks much better.
22:16:54pamaury(up to a constant dB shift that we can ignore)
22:17:12johnb2http://www.mediafire.com/file/8l3qzg57l8yoypf/Sine_A25_30to0.reducedVolume.flac
22:17:56johnb2btw, I used your tool to remove the volume cap of the A20 (or the notificatin part of it).
22:24:21 Quit johnb3 (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
22:27:10johnb2I will be back tomorrow.
22:29:31 Quit johnb2 (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
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