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#rockbox log for 2017-04-13

00:05:17 Join varogami [0] (~varogami@93-44-110-118.ip96.fastwebnet.it)
00:07:33 Join alexweissman [0] (~alexweiss@2001:18e8:2:28b6:bcc4:a8af:231d:ae2)
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00:18:05 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.0.2/20170323105023])
00:18:27 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:23:48 Quit smoke_fumus (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
00:27:17__builtinhmm, is the build server still stuck?
00:31:15mokkurkalve...looks like it is.... wondering if this is a long term situation.......???
00:32:20__builtinit's been the case for a while, apparently since gerrit was updated
00:33:00 Join WilliamC [0] (~WilliamC@cpe-2606-A000-140E-4017-28FE-B43-BA1E-29D5.dyn6.twc.com)
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00:58:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:06:07 Part robertd1
01:15:44WilliamCHow come none of the mainstream companies seem to make MP3 players anymore?
01:18:16 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.)
01:36:32[Saint]WilliamC: Android.
01:37:41[Saint]With the rise in smarphones, and people carrying around devices that are more than capable of providing the role of a DAP, as well as pretty much anything else you can think of that can make use of networking and non-trivial computing power...there's no room in the market for dedicated audio players anymore.
01:38:02[Saint]Aside from the very, very, very niche market of dedicated high end/"audiophile" DAPs.
01:40:01[Saint]Fact of the matter is, Johnny and Janey Consumer really don't give too much of a fuck at all about their sound quality and pretty much every single vaguely modern Android handset if "Good Enough (TM)" in terms of quality for LAME, AAC, and maybe ALAC/FLAC/WAV.
01:40:15[Saint]s/if/is/
01:40:45WilliamCI use vorbis with high end sound quality.
01:41:09WilliamC6 or 7 I think
01:41:42WilliamCI don't use a smart phone because I hate talking and I'd rather people not be able to contact me outside of me being at my desk
01:42:02[Saint]TL;DR: WHy carry around a "dumb" dedicated digital audio player, with a fixed disk capacity, when you can carry around a smartphone that can do the same thing and more, play games, calculate your taxes, be a fitness/workout companion, etc. etc. etc., with essentially infinite storage by way of "cloud" media access?
01:42:28[Saint]If anyone thinks about it rationally, the answer basically is "Why? ...you wouldn't".
01:42:32[Saint]And...people don't.
01:43:38[Saint]Pretty much everyone these days has a smartphone and enough mobile data, or even unlimited mobile data, to serve as a mobile streaming media device.
01:44:21[Saint]Video, errrr...smartphones, killed the radio...I mean...DAP, star.
01:47:24 Join alexweissman [0] (~alexweiss@2001:18e8:2:28b6:596d:bd0f:660:6273)
01:47:48WilliamCSo, I'm basically just an oddity.
01:49:41WilliamCSo I guess just go with whatever
01:59:31 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
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02:01:52[Saint]ipod classic.
02:02:16[Saint]that's the most affordable, and most powerful, still readily available player we support.
02:05:51shrizza_How much is the iPod Classic? On amazon.co.jp the 160GB model is listed as 53000 JPY which is roughly 500 bucks.
02:07:28[Saint]It can very wildly, depending on where you're getting them from.
02:07:47[Saint]The person selling that one, is by no stretch of the imagination, a cunt.
02:08:14[Saint]I can get them in my locale for anywhere around $80~$200NZD.
02:08:49[Saint]Pawn Shops are great places to find second hand electronics.
02:08:59shrizza_Apparently sold by Apple via Amazon.
02:09:37[Saint]That, I find difficult, bordering on impossible, to believe.
02:10:02shrizza_https://www.amazon.co.jp/Apple-iPod-classic-160GB-MC297J/dp/B002OB3FKU/
02:10:08[Saint]If for no other reason than the fact that Apple discontinued the modle and ceased all sales and servicing approximately two years ago.
02:10:29shrizza_Oh, well that's probably it then.
02:10:38[Saint]"it"?
02:10:40shrizza_Yeah, I haven't touched an iPod in forever so I don't know.
02:10:52shrizza_That's probably why it's so expensive.
02:10:55shrizza_(on amazon.co.jp)
02:11:23[Saint]Yes. That's definitely why, but it's absolutely not sold by Apple.
02:12:08shrizza_Amazon lists the seller as Apple.
02:12:10[Saint]Not sure where you're getting that info from. "Apple Life Store" != Apple.
02:13:10[Saint]I imagine Apple would be pretty interested in seeing their trademark abused in such a fashion.
02:13:15shrizza_Ah, nevermind. It says sold by Dendenshop.
02:13:33shrizza_You're right.
02:14:56*shrizza_ shrugs. I usually just snipe Sansas on local sites and YAJ.
02:16:40shrizza_Even right now there's a Sansa Clip listed at about 40 bucks.
02:21:35[Saint]That's not a bad price, but in this regard I tend to think that one gets what they pay for.
02:22:06[Saint]The late model SanDisk/Sansa players are cheaply made, shoddily constructed, poorly engineered crap.
02:22:23shrizza_Hm, which Sansas do you think are quality?
02:22:36[Saint]The C/E series.
02:24:09shrizza_Hm, how about the e130? Not listed as supported by RB but...
02:25:05shrizza_Battery based, bah.
02:28:50[Saint]My personal opinion is that there's absolutely no way to beat an iPod Classic (6/7G), or iPod Video (5/5.5G), with an aftermarket battery and solid state storage conversion.
02:29:13[Saint]I have a couple of them myself. Hard, if not impossible, to beat. IMO.
02:30:04[Saint]I have a couple of 256GB converted iPods, and a couple of 512GB converted iPod, and one 1TB iPod.
02:40:12 Join Aldem [0] (~Aldem@unaffiliated/aldem)
02:40:14AldemHello
02:40:38AldemIf I was to buy a portable media player that supports Rockbox, what should it be ?
02:47:11__builtinquoting [Saint]: "ipod classic."
02:47:58shrizza_Haha, the timing on your question was Jeopardly.
02:49:00[Saint]Aldem: Curiously, this discussion played out above not ~10 minutes ago. To reiterate my position;
02:49:00[Saint]...iPod Classic 6/7G, or iPod Video 5/5.5G
02:49:25[Saint]Preferably with, at the least, an aftermarket high density LiPo.
02:49:27AldemI'd like something that I could use with a uSD card if possible
02:50:16[Saint]I always wonder what people are thinking when they say that.
02:50:16[Saint]WHy is uSD so important to you, vs. say, getting a player with a suitable initial capacity?
02:50:40[Saint]How much music do you think you can listen to in any one given setting? Or even within a week?
02:52:14shrizza_Maybe he 4x fast forwards through uncompressed podcasts.
02:52:15AldemWell, longest I've been on a trip is 8 hours, but I listen to a lot of genres, so I like to have a couple of bands for each.
02:55:49[Saint]Yes. I'm aware. And with a 120~160GB player, you can do so, about twice over, with room to spare.
02:56:28 Quit alexweissman (Remote host closed the connection)
02:57:36AldemAlso, ipod classic... Those must be bought on ebay, and must cost a lot since discontinued no ?
02:57:37[Saint]And for about $50USD, you can get an adapter plate to shift the storage medium from 50pin ZIF to SD/uSD/CF
02:57:54[Saint]Depends vastly on your region/locality.
02:58:14[Saint]Pretty much every single PAwn Shop or second hand electronics store should still have them.
02:58:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:59:03[Saint]Buying them online isn't particularly advisable, unless you're doing so from a community noticeboard type affair, ala Cragslist, TradeME, et al.
02:59:09AldemThough they were more rare
02:59:43[Saint]The iPod Video 5/5.5G is still pretty readily accessible.
03:00
03:00:14[Saint]And is actually somewhat easier to convert to a high capacity battery and solid state storage medium.
03:00:30[Saint](due to the nature of their construction and internal layout)
03:03:10AldemAll right, will look for that. Thanks
03:04:18[Saint]Second to that, your options are rather limited. One of the late model Happy Meal toys, I presume.
03:04:41[Saint](and by Happy Meal toys, I mean the SanDisk/Sansa Clip series)
03:05:14AldemHad a Sansa e280, but lost it when I moved.
03:05:24[Saint]But they're discontinued as well, and are only availabe though refurbished resellers and community notice boards.
03:14:51[Saint]jhMikeS: saratoga: (logs)
03:14:51[Saint]How would one go about increasing the available bit depth, and sample rates, available for Rockbox playback and encoding - presuming the hardware supports it.
03:15:24[Saint]Presently, we can do 16/48 maximum.
03:15:24[Saint]I understand that increasing the samplerate is a lot easier than increasing the bi tdeptch, is that true?
03:17:30[Saint]I would like to be able to build to match the hardware I have available with a little Raspberry Pi project I've cobbled together.
03:18:36[Saint]The DAC I'm using is capable of 32bit / 384kHz decode, and I would love to be able to utilize that - even if it is arbitrarily high "audiophile" wank.
03:19:18[Saint](The DAC is the Texas Instruments Burr Brown TI PCM5122)
03:21:17[Saint]With a Texas Instruments TI TPA6133A headphone amplifier, and a TI TPA3118 Class D amplifier.
03:28:21 Join saratoga [0] (123e1c1b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.18.62.28.27)
03:28:37saratoga[Saint]: codecs already support 32 bit and any sampling rate you want
03:29:07[Saint]So it's "just" the core that needs to be made aware of this?
03:29:15saratogayou'd have to talk to jhMikeS about the PCM buffering, but basically the last stage of the DSP engine converts to 16 bit right now, and then the resulting PCM is mixed with voice or whatever else and then sent to the dac
03:29:29[Saint]One presumes it's more involved than a simple #DEFINE or value change?
03:30:17saratogayeah at very least you need to add an output function to the DSP code for 24 or 32 bit, then probably add some other code to handle the different sample size in the mixer
03:30:21saratogai haven't looked at it though
03:30:31 Join alexweissman [0] (~alexweiss@149-160-140-202.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu)
03:30:31saratogai don't think its that hard, but i could be wrong
03:31:01[Saint]I really want to compile an SDL app with 32 bit 384kHz support, and preferably intermediary samplerates and bit deptch.
03:31:07[Saint]24/192, etc.
03:31:11saratogahigher sampling rates should just work, although some DSP effects may not like running much higher than 44.1/48k (compressor probably needs some adjustments)
03:31:33saratogahigher sampling rates are pointless, although having 24 bit output would be neat
03:31:34[Saint]yeah, right. I'd considered that aspect.
03:31:59[Saint]I'm more thinking about recording for the high samplerate.
03:32:16saratogaalso pointless, although 24 bit is even more useful for recording than playback
03:32:29Aldemheh
03:32:46AldemAs long as it's over or = 44.1 I don't mind
03:32:50saratogai have no idea how recording is implemented, but it doesn't have to do as much work as PCM playback so i'd guess its easier to change
03:32:56[Saint]How so is it pointless? I get that the merits are arguable...but I feel like 'pointless' is a bit of a stretch.
03:33:13saratoganyquist thereom
03:33:21saratogaits mathematically pointless
03:33:24AldemWhat I do find pointless are DSDs
03:33:54saratogaplus on modern hardware the sampling rate is usually fixed and changing the input/output rate just changes the oversampling ratio
03:34:14saratogaso you're essentially just moving more work from hardware to software, which isn't a good idea if power is a factor
03:34:59saratogai should say fixed to within a power of 2, so 44.1k and 48k won't run at the same rate, but 48k and 96k will
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03:40:19saratogaanyway don't let me discourage you from trying things
03:40:39Aldemyeah, things !
03:40:52AldemMan, Nier Automata's OST is awesome
03:49:39[Saint]Even if the merits are questionable, I basicaly just want to add the full range of (common) supported sample rates and 24 and 32 bit depth to go with the external DAC I'm using for my raspberry Pi/Rovkbox JEOS project.
03:50:32[Saint]I've been building a debian aarch64 based JEOS to wrap around the Rockbox SDL application for quite a while now in my spare time, what little of it I get.
03:51:11[Saint]And I started using a new audio card recently with some pretty high (by comparison) specifications, so I thought it'd be nice to make use of it.
03:51:19[Saint]...even if it is questionable.
03:51:45saratogathat DAC you mentioned is interesting, it basically has a fixed 384 KHz sampling rate (which is very low) and it lets you swap out any of a large number of interpolating filters depending on the sampling rate you want to feed it
03:51:55saratogaits basically like our DSP engine, but implemented in hardware
03:51:59AldemI use the O2+ODAC
03:52:06AldemRev. B because it's important
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04:13:50saratoaghas anyone tried building the ipod6g manual? it should be identical to the video right?
04:19:48__builtinthe "manual" installation process doesn't have to be covered, right?
04:21:03__builtinthat was a truly unintended pun...
04:22:32saratoagthat would actually be good to have in there as well
04:22:57saratoagalthough i guess it could be omitted if its too complex
04:24:10__builtinuser890104 already has a fairly complete guide available, it shouldn't be too hard to adapt it for the manual
04:26:25__builtinI'll start putting something together
04:29:03saratoagall those imx devices as well that pamaury did don't have manuals either
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12:12:59johnb5lebellium: I came across your instructions for the Sony Linux ports on tellementnomade.org. Very nice.
12:13:14lebelliumdo you speak french?
12:13:39johnb5I had 3 years at school, google translate can do the rest.
12:14:08lebelliumok :)
12:15:24lebelliumpamaury said he would add the pre-compiled bootloader and builds to the Rockbox wiki so I didn't do anything in english so far
12:15:30johnb5I am better at understanding/reading than speaking. I had 7 years of Latin ;-)
12:17:18johnb5yes, that would be ideal. I endeavored into compiling myself and with the latest instructions by pamaury I think I am pretty close with the toolchain. But I am away from home now and can only continue on the weekend.
12:17:27lebelliumI got the max grade (20/20) in Latin at the Baccaulauréat (Abitur). I'm supposed to be bilingual I guess. I can speak with the Pope o/
12:19:05johnb5Once it is working, I might experiment and try to come up with a better keymap. As there is no manual out, I feel it should not be cast into stone by now.
12:19:25lebelliumwill see what pamaury prefers to do but if someone wants to translate my post into english on head-fi or so, please do so
12:22:02johnb5I personally think a (rockbox) wiki would be a better place.
12:23:46johnb5During the recent clean-up my wiki account was deleted, but I can re-register and create a wiki page if also pamaury is fine with this.
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18:05:03__builtinwould here someone be willing to build the bins for the upcoming release?
18:06:11gevaertsI should be able to do that bit
18:06:42__builtincool
18:07:20__builtinis there anything apart from https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ReleaseChecklist that I should be aware of?
18:07:52gevaertsProbably!
18:08:45gevaertsYou'll need help with the flash bits. I don't really know what they do
18:09:55gevaertsI can do the builds. It's easier to do the lot (binaries, source archive, manuals) I think. Those need to be copied to the server by probably Zagor, so contacting him in advance is probably a good idea
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18:11:23gevaertsI think I might be a flyspray admin these days, so I can do the bits related to that
18:12:09gevaertsI can also do the themeserver stuff
18:12:22__builtinok
18:12:52gevaertsI don't think ReleaseChecklist misses anything, but some of the items are probably a bit terse :)
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18:14:20gevaertsYou'll probably want to have a rockbox-www checkout handy
18:14:42__builtinyeah, got that
18:17:14gevaertsHmmm, that first item is a bit misleading
18:17:28gevaertsThe very first step is to actually create the release branch
18:20:23gevaertsOh, there's another issue: promising to release hwcodec is one thing, actually having a working Recorder build is another
18:20:51saratogawe should drop it from the release then
18:21:05saratoga(the recorder, not all hwcodec)
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18:21:16__builtinI doubt it'll be missed by very many
18:21:23gevaertsI think I agree
18:22:11__builtinall the other hwcodec targets should still build
18:22:18gevaertsThey do
18:22:27gevaertsWell, they did before the build system broke :)
18:22:32__builtinyeah :P
18:22:44saratogatargets which lack a manual in this release: iPod Classic, NWZ E370/E380, all creative devices (assuming we release for them)
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18:23:46saratogadid pamuary ever comment on which Zen targets were going to be released?
18:25:18saratogaadding a classic manual should be simple since it is nearly the same as the 5g aside from the installation instructions, but the other devices are somewhat harder
18:26:53__builtinis zagor aware of the build server issues?
18:27:08gevaertsWhat's the rbutil situation?
18:27:14__builtinI vaguely remember something, but I can't find it in the logs
18:27:42gevaertsYes, zagor knows
18:29:13gevaertsI mean, it would be ideal if we have an rbutil release first or at the same time
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18:29:50saratogai was hoping to get the ipod classic stuff committed for rbutil
18:30:06gevaertsWe don't *need* rbutil support for a target to be released, but it would be a pity to release targets without rbutil support if there's code for those targets
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18:32:47saratogaprof_wolfff: what was the status of the rbutil patches for the ipod6g? it seems like they work well, but are they committable ?
18:33:33saratogagevaerts: it would be annoying, but one option would be to have a build of rbutil specifically for the release that added preliminary support
18:33:41saratogathat is essentially what the ipod6g port does now
18:34:17saratogawe also need to do a release of the current git rbutil in any case
18:34:32saratogaas i understand it, the main annoyance there was building it for less common targets like macos
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18:50:11__builtinhmm, when should the release branch be created?
18:52:19__builtinit shouldn't matter, right?
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19:11:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:12:14gevaertsWhen it's needed
19:12:24gevaertsNo point in doing it earlier, really
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19:18:01johnb5lebellium: Can you please add me (JohannesRauh) to the WikiUsersGroup?
19:21:24gevaertsjohnb5: done. Things should work now!
19:21:36johnb5Thx
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19:33:09prof_wolfffsaratoga: regarding ipod6g, the mks5lboot tool is ready to be committed, i will do it in the next hours, it works well on linux, windows and the 'latest' macs
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19:34:13prof_wolfffrbutil also works well on Linux and Windows, it seems easy to add support for the OS X 10.5+ where libusb is available, i think it is committable, but there is one thing that affects other targets: a larger progress window, see the reason for it at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/1268/13/rbutil/rbutilqt/progressloggerfrm.ui
19:34:50saratogathat seems harmless enough?
19:34:53prof_wolfffthere is a list of issues that I could not solve at user890104/bootloader-ipodclassic-v1_0/README.RockboxUtility.txt">https://files.freemyipod.org/~user890104/bootloader-ipodclassic-v1_0/README.RockboxUtility.txt
19:36:49prof_wolfffyes, the larger progress window effect is only aesthetic
19:39:39prof_wolfffthe [X] close button issue is there for all targets but only noticeable on ipod6g where the installation/uninstallation is interactive
19:42:01prof_wolfffnot analysed in detail but it seems for me that the Visual C++ Runtime error could be related to some bug on the web cache and might happen on other targets
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22:42:52prof_wolfffi see there is a new gerrit version, what is the way to commit from the web?, cherry pick to master?
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23:26:30prof_wolfffabout gerrit again, i can not give +2 score, only +1, is it normal or some problem with my user?
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23:41:55__builtinprof_wolfff: that isn't good
23:42:36__builtinif you need to a direct push ought to work
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23:42:54saratogaworkI can't +2 it either
23:43:09saratogaworki think this is probably related to the gerrit upgrade that broke the build system
23:43:19saratogaworkcan you just commit via your local git client?
23:44:29__builtinhmm, it might have removed secondary email addresses
23:45:05__builtinmy account isn't in the Committers group anymore, but my secondary email is still listed
23:45:30__builtindid either of you have a secondary email on your gerrit account?
23:45:47prof_wolfffit is like the users are duplicated, i am in people->commiters, i am already added as reviewer on my own changes but if i try to review it then my name is added again and i only can do +1
23:46:35prof_wolfffi only have one email address
23:46:58__builtinhopefully gevaerts still has admin access
23:46:58prof_wolfffwill try to commit the change using the git client
23:47:20saratogaworkmy email address is also changed
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23:48:31__builtinit won't let me re-add my old one, either :(
23:48:54__builtingevaerts: ping
23:48:54prof_wolfffmy email address is correct and the same in people->commiters and settings->profile
23:49:20__builtinwhen you go to Settings->Groups, does it list you in Committers?
23:49:42gevaertsI do have admin access, but I don't know how much I can do
23:49:55prof_wolfffbut in settings->profiles it appears as registered today! at the time i logged in
23:50:13gevaertsI can add and remove people from groups, but that seems to be about it. I don't think I can see details for people
23:51:26gevaertsHmmm, registered is off for me as well, only it's a few weeks ago for me
23:51:53gevaertsAnd I don't seem to have registered ssh keys?
23:52:04__builtinit might be when Gerrit was updated, perhaps the accounts were re-created
23:52:11saratogaworkat least for me, my oauth2 user was split into a new account
23:52:29prof_wolfffsaratogawork: the same for me
23:52:32saratogaworkso i can login, but i'm a new user with no history, whereas my old user is still there but no longer associated with my login
23:57:26gevaertsHmmm, no, I don't think I do have admin...
23:57:58saratogaworkcommit via local client then i guess
23:58:40__builtinthat might not work either, SSH keys are gone
23:58:55gevaertsThey're gone from the account you can see

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