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#rockbox log for 2017-04-26

00:00:05saratogajust ask the question and maybe someone will remember the answer or be able to tell you where to look it up
00:02:50[Saint]I'd be in the "likely possible, but, for the love of all things holy, why?" camp.
00:03:36[Saint]If any of that audio was particularly important, I'd wonder why it wasn't backed up. And if it wasn't, I'd be absolutely confident it is available elsewhere.
00:07:56 Quit paulk-collins (Quit: Leaving)
00:10:23Alcahestsaratoga, actually you can check in the #gigabeat log, i was already there ten years ago ^^;
00:10:37Alcahestjust thought maybe a breakthrough happened in the meantime
00:10:57[Saint]WHatever #gigabeat is has nothing to do with us...so....
00:11:22[Saint]Anyhow, I revert back to "If this was so important to you, it would've been backed up elsewhere".
00:13:09saratogawas there a question then?
00:14:22Alcahest1st, #gigabeat had very much to do with rockbox https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/GigabeatFXPort
00:14:26Alcahest[1,010Link title] 403 Forbidden
00:14:57Alcahest2nd, yeah is is backed up across dozens of dvds, not tagged and messy
00:15:23Alcahestmy question is simple, would a dev be interested in cracking the SAT format once and for all
00:15:39 Join pamaury [0] (~pamaury@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
00:19:03saratogadoesn't the wiki have instructions for how to do that?
00:19:47Alcahestit has for model F and X, it doesn't apply to model G
00:20:01Alcahestwhich has no MTP connection mode
00:21:08saratogathere is no port to the model G
00:21:15saratogayou're on your own there
00:21:30Alcahesti know, which is why i'm asking here
00:21:50Alcahestwhere devs can make some miracles ^^
00:21:59saratogaif someone ever starts working on the model g, it'll be on the wiki
00:22:53saratogaalthough i've never heard of it before now, and wikipedia says its 14 years old, so you're probably one of the only people out there with a working model
00:23:33Alcahestit was released super stealth style in the US, it's mainly a JPN only model, yeah..
00:25:40Alcahestanyway, the SAT encryption is extremely likely to be the same as on F/X models, DES encryption with key being the HDD serial
00:26:57Alcahestthis is russian to me, but maybe a dev would know what to try/test to confirm this and hopefully crack SAT finally, i'm just throwing a bottle in the sea..
00:30:15 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:33:17[Saint]Alcahest: right, I understand now.
00:33:18[Saint]Alcahest: the thing is, in almost every single circumstance "a developer" is you, in Rockbox.
00:34:28__builtinlebellium (logs): GMT-5 at the moment
00:35:16[Saint]Developers are guided by their own interests and hobbies. If people want a feature added, the burden falls on them to add it, and DoItRight(tm).
00:35:29Alcahesti guess :X
00:35:44Alcahestbesides all the dudes with knowledge in the gigabeat series are long gone i'm sure
00:37:07[Saint]Eh, most of them can still be contacted but what it really boils down to is that if they wanted to be they would still be readily accessible and contributing.
00:37:11Alcahesti've been following the japanese scene hoping for a crack of that damn format, nothing came from there either, except someone who made an app to rewrite the HDD serial to 00000000000 so that encrypted SAT files would work even when exchanging HDD
00:38:02Alcahestyeah no doubts, so i guess i'm outta luck completely ^^;
00:38:16[Saint]I think there's not many of us with functional Gigabeat variants anymore.
00:38:17saratogai don't remember anyone looking into the .SAT encryption
00:38:24saratogaif you found someone who did, best bet is to email them
00:38:53[Saint]I have /most/ of two S series, and an F, in bits.
00:39:04Alcahestin the #gigabeat log were at least 4 individuals looking into it but yeah that was in 2007/8
00:39:05Alcahesthaha
00:39:06Alcahestnice
00:39:24saratogasee if you can find those people then i guess
00:39:25[Saint]I could probably make a single functional player. Or maybe one and a half.
00:39:43Alcahestthat's a start XD
00:39:45saratogawhoever figured out it was DES could probably help you
00:39:54[Saint]But I never seem to get both the time, and the determination, at the same time to get them together.
00:40:27[Saint]I've mostly been an iPod man for the decade or so I've been lurking around ehre.
00:40:55[Saint]I was a fan of the early SanDisk/Sansa devices as well.
00:41:01[Saint]But they've gone to shit now.
00:44:32 Quit ender` (Quit: If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution.— Robert Sewell)
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00:50:26Alcahestfrom the logs, i could find all these rockbox devs trying to crack .SAT
00:50:29AlcahestShonky, gtkspert, markun, TrentArms, wibbix, ecow714, toffe
00:50:38Alcahestany of these names ring a bell Saint? ^^
00:52:00__builtinI honestly doubt that they'll remember anything even if you do get hold of one of them
00:52:56Alcahestme too but i've not much to lose trying
00:54:07[Saint]markun and toffe are both....around. as in, I know they exist, like, they're alive.
00:54:23Alcahestnice
00:54:28[Saint]not sure if they still use those nicks or even have any irc involvement though.
00:54:56Alcahestless nice
00:54:58AlcahestXD
00:56:05[Saint]Rockbox, in principle, is basically "By developers, for developers" - even though I'm pretty sure there's a quote somewhere in the documentation or on the wiki that suggests the opposite of that. I would maintain it to be untrue.
00:57:05__builtintoffe is actually on IRC at the moment, but not this channel
00:57:06[Saint]It's been steered by "If you want it, and it's sane and you can DoItRight, submit it" for quite some time now.
00:58:19[Saint]Basically, "if you want x and can add x then no one will get in your way too hard if x is sane and you can integrate x well with our existing codebase"
00:59:08__builtin(by the way, that's how the number of game plugins has doubled in the past year)
00:59:25Alcahestroger that, still maybe one of these devs who looked into it, with new experience would achieve what they couldn't do a long time ago
00:59:39Alcahestagain i'm not expecting anything, just trying my luck
01:00
01:00:10[Saint]everyone's cooking burgers and patties and hotdogs, but if you want to come to the party and barbeque some weird falaffel burger thing then no one's going to stop you using the grill as long as you know how to cook. :)
01:00:59Alcahestso just one thing, out of all the names noone is a regular dev anymore, correct?
01:01:52__builtinwhat do you mean?
01:02:02__builtinis anyone still active?
01:02:09pamauryI think I've seen markun a few times but no none of them is active anymore
01:02:13Alcahestyeah out of all these devs Shonky, gtkspert, markun, TrentArms, wibbix, ecow714, toffe
01:02:23scorcheeven if they were, the same logic'd apply
01:02:32Alcahestok pamaury, btw, i went ahaid and did it, it worked ;D
01:02:37scorchework doesnt really get assigned out
01:03:46Alcahestjust one thing odd, although i went with E2, the unit reports U in the system menu
01:05:06Alcahestamthough scsitool-nwz-v6.exe E: dest_tool get reports E2 alright [(206) i think]
01:05:31saratogamost of those people aren't rockbox developers
01:05:31pamauryAlcahest: the names (E2, U) are not consistent accross devices
01:05:31Alcahestin the service menu*
01:05:36Alcahesti see
01:05:48Alcahestroger that saratoga
01:05:55saratogamarkun and toffe were, i don't recognize the others
01:06:07Alcahestso what you guys are saying is that there's not the slightest hope
01:06:31saratogaprobably if someone is working on rockbox they wouldn't care about .sat since they don't use the original firmware
01:06:57Alcahestwhat about curiosity? challenge!? hehe..
01:07:56saratogapeople who wanted a challenge worked on the port
01:08:13saratogayou're looking for someone who wasn't that interested but still put a little time into it
01:08:29Alcahestprecisely
01:08:48saratogaanyway you said someone told you it was des, track that person down and ask them for their notes and then see if you can figure it out
01:09:11Alcahestthat person is markun
01:09:13saratogaif its really just using a number you know and an algorithm you know and you can feed files into it to get the encrypted form, you can probably sort this out yourself
01:09:15 Quit atsampson (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
01:09:47Alcahesti'm no dev whatsoever, i know how to write pages in html, yaye
01:10:43Alcahestlike this one http://alcahestx.free.fr/perso/g20/g-test_index.html
01:10:43Alcahest[1,010Link title] Gigabeat G20 by Alcahest
01:10:43AlcahestxD
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01:23:13pamauryI know nothing about Gigabeat but if you need to crack DES, I believe it is quite easy these days
01:23:21pamaury(assuming you know the format/what is encrypted)
01:24:39Alcahestthanks but i'm afraid i know neither, completely eludes me
01:25:11Alcahesti'll try to contact markun or toffe if they come around or if someone knows a way to contact them
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02:19:53scorcheyeah - I have a beefy system at my disposal purely for cracking hashes and such...DES wouldnt take long to crack
02:20:01scorche(assuming you know the format/what is encrypted)
02:26:55Alcahesti have a source .mp3 and its corresponding encrypted .SAT but i don't think that'd be enough hah
02:27:15__builtinis the format known?
02:27:25__builtinor documented?
02:28:28Alcahestnot at all, SAT is a proprietary toshiba encrypted format
02:28:47Alcahestwell, not at all by me, some of the devs who looked at it years ago i'm sure figured a lot of stuff out
02:31:04Alcahestbasically, there is a windows software called "toshiba audio application" that will encrypt mp3/wav files to .mp3.SAT / .wav.SAT upon transfering to the DAP
02:31:38Alcahestby looking at resulting SAT files in the hexeditor, all is scrambled
02:31:50__builtinit might be easier just to RE the program that encrypts them
02:31:57__builtinafter all, the key has to be somewhere
02:32:16Alcahestpossibly, i've no clue
02:32:33Alcahestit is thought that the key is the HDD serial, because SAT files don't work cross device
02:32:47Alcahestthey're tied to one DAP alone with its built-in HDD
02:32:57Alcahestupgrading the HDD and they stop working
02:33:12__builtinhave you seen this? https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/GigabeatFXPort#Remove_.SAT_Encryption_40Optional_41
02:33:33Alcahestsure did, it works on series F and X but not on series G
02:34:05Alcahestit works because F & X can work in MTP mode and WindowsMedia Player allows to see SAT files as normal files
02:34:19Alcahestbut the G series is mass storage device only ;_;
02:35:45__builtinyou're either going to have to do it yourself or (unlikely) find someone else
02:36:08Alcahestyeah i grasped that xD
02:36:49__builtinso you said that there's a program that takes normal .mp3s and encrypts them to this SAT format?
02:37:01Alcahestyes
02:37:25Alcahestupon transfer to the DAP, in "realtime"
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02:48:06Alcahestthere is also a driver for Windows Media Player that does the same, encrypts wav/mp3 etc to SAT
02:48:25Alcahestmaybe it's easier to reverse than the toshiba audio application standalone prog
02:48:39Alcahestit's a single DLL called "TsGBSP.dll"
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10:45:50froggerlyHi there! I have an iPod Mini 2G and inserted a CF card (Komputerbay J8 128GB CF 1050x UDMA 7). Installed Roxbox-DEV. Copied ~3500 songs (FLAC, MP3). When I click on a song, it takes about 2s till it starts. Same for skipping to next song, it takes ~2 seconds. Skipping more songs at once even longer. I don't have this problem with the original Apple FW so I guess the CF card is fine and fast
10:45:50froggerlyenough. Any suggestions?
10:46:11froggerlyAre there any special settings I have to adjust for the CF card
10:47:17froggerlySometimes the delay is 6-7 seconds, even if it's a MP3
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19:50:35froggerlyHi there! I have an iPod Mini 2G and inserted a CF card (Komputerbay J8 128GB CF 1050x UDMA 7). Installed Roxbox-DEV. Copied ~3500 songs (FLAC, MP3). When I click on a song, it takes about 2s till it starts. Same for skipping to next song, it takes ~2-6 seconds. Skipping more songs at once even longer. I don't have this problem with the original Apple FW so I guess the CF card is fine and fast
19:50:35froggerlyenough. Any suggestions?
19:50:41froggerlyAre there any special settings I have to adjust for the CF card
19:52:48CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
19:52:48*lorenzo92 according to the wiki (which by the way I wrote) radio is working on ypr1, in fact it doesn't :) I know why and I might actually end up removing the silly kernel module I wrote at the time
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20:16:03*lorenzo92 radio works on ypr1, needs keymap care. I'll check now if avoiding the kernel module is an option also for ypr0, should be. How could I miss the i2c-dev kernel system at the time !
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21:22:46lorenzo92lebellium: g#1594
21:22:47fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #1594 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1594 : 3Samsung YP-R0/YP-R1: use Linux i2c-dev for radio chip access by Lorenzo Miori
21:23:12lorenzo92lebellium: works just fine on ypr0 and ypr1, testing is welcome :-)
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21:39:25lorenzo92lebellium: and just for completeness g#1595. My patch can perfectly work also having the kernel module loaded, though
21:39:27fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #1595 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1595 : 3Samsung YP-R0: remove deprecated kernel module by Lorenzo Miori
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22:03:42lorenzo92lebellium: logs
22:04:49lebelliumI'll read in a few minutes, I'm eating :)
22:09:15lebelliumlorenzo92: back to the business with more experience? :)
22:10:45lorenzo92lebellium: definitely :-)
22:13:03lebelliumI'm still here, with the same level of development ignorance :D
22:14:15lorenzo92:D never say never ^^ every skill is required on this planet e.g. you convincing developers to actually write some patch or so :-P
22:15:53lebelliumdo you have a build for R0 or R1 or should I compile myself?
22:16:22lorenzo92I would prefer you to compile it to fully test if e.g. files are missing or so
22:16:38lebelliumok
22:17:21lorenzo92you can simply skip the last patch since it is more a cleanup patch to avoid filling the ROM file with the deprecated linux module
22:17:26lebelliumfrom the user point of view, is there a visible difference on R0 in FM radio?
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22:18:20lorenzo92no, definitely not. actually, this patch makes the ypr1's radio to work...I don't remeber if I have previously relased an unofficial kernel module for it, do you?
22:19:05lorenzo92i.e. the 2 main differences between ypr0 and ypr1: (a) the i2c busses are different and (b) the RST pin are wired to different cpu pins
22:19:56lebelliumno, radio doesn't work on my R1. But it seems I now have a dead pixels line :(
22:20:07lorenzo92bad news indeed :-(
22:20:39lorenzo92alright, then this patch will actually make the radio available to the user, btw
22:23:44lebelliumhum
22:24:06lebelliumdo you remember how to boot OF? I read press and hold the power button but it doesn't seem to work
22:25:26lorenzo92hmm let me try
22:27:24lorenzo92interesting. the rockbox.sh script suggests volume up, which is mapped to safe mode !
22:27:45lorenzo92let me fix it by mapping the volume down button
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22:30:52lorenzo92lebellium: definitely, rockbox.sh is broken. Let me create a patch on the fly, so that you can download it
22:33:08lebelliumis si4709.ko still needed with your patch?
22:34:09lorenzo92lebellium: g#1596
22:34:10fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #1596 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1596 : 3Samsung YP-R1: fix OF boot shortcut by Lorenzo Miori
22:34:27lorenzo92nope, it won't be needed anymore (both on ypr0 and ypr1)
22:35:29lebelliumI just did "make clean" to build again, but that's stupid
22:35:51lorenzo92it appears you have some spare time ^^
22:36:30lorenzo92you should be able to cherry pick the rockbox.sh patch, and then have a working zip file
22:37:06lorenzo92by working i mean the fixed OF button
22:37:24lebelliumI didn't remember rockbox.sh is part of the .rockbox folder
22:41:00lorenzo92yup, to have some flexibility for this stuff
22:48:55lebelliumlorenzo92: FM works on R1 but how do you change the frequency with cabbiev2?
22:49:28lorenzo92lebellium: oh yes, keymapping needs care :D
22:49:49lebelliumso basically 87,5Mhz crshshshshshshshs means it works fine? :D
22:50:07lorenzo92actually, in my city there is a radio station right there ^^
22:50:21lorenzo92but yes, from the point of view of the integration it does :)
22:50:33lebelliumnice
22:50:55lebelliumI'm so sad about that dead pixels line. I'll need to buy a new R1
22:51:10lebelliumand yes, now OF boot works
22:51:53lorenzo92good, thanks for testing this as well (y)
22:52:16lorenzo92hmm if you gently press the screen, does the line disappear or so?
22:52:19lebelliumI'll test on YP-R0 tomorrow if I have time
22:52:37lorenzo92that would be great, too ;-)
22:54:13lebelliumno, gently pressing the screen doesn't help. I haven't used the device for several months. I don't know what make that happen when the screen remains OFF. Maybe temperature variations in the room?
22:56:31lebelliumlorenzo92: oh I forgot I made FM screen in my Samsung-like theme. I put touch buttons for prev/next frequencies :)
22:58:40lorenzo92no idea about the LCD, that's very very odd
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