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#rockbox log for 2017-05-22

00:00:26MarqueteurBah. Errant space in the input line got sent by mistake. Sorry.
00:01:01__builtinLinton (logs): I might know why
00:02:49__builtinwell, maybe not actually
00:04:38 Join PurlingNayuki [0] (~Thunderbi@114.255.40.60)
00:06:40TheSevenso it looks like something destroyed my build VM
00:07:05TheSevensomething must have run rm -rf * in the rockbox user's home directory, quite probably the build client or the nightlies job
00:07:43TheSevenpossibly as a result of the VM running out of disk space (or at least believing to be doing that due to a btrfs bug)
00:09:01TheSevenis it work trying to get that repaired, or would it make more sense to move the nightly win32 sim + android builds over to whatever will host the new repository? maybe some sort of CI system?
00:09:07TheSevenis it worth*
00:10:13[Saint]we'll need to make some changes in mainline before RaaA builds again.
00:10:27[Saint]Unless you happened to keep all your platform tools and ancient SDK around.
00:10:51[Saint]It's practically impossible to find the versions head will build with these days.
00:11:24[Saint]Though, this isn't a bad thing. Probably should've bumped the platform API yeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaars ago.
00:11:34[Saint]...I think we still target 14.
00:12:19TheSevenjust wondering if I should put any effort in trying to get that back up and running or if we should consolidate that stuff somewhere else anyway
00:12:38[Saint]A few things need to happen, the linker needs to be changed, the platform target needs to be bumped, and there's a couple of paths that moved.
00:13:19[Saint]TheSeven: to be honest, I have some serious doubts about the need to keep RaaA alive.
00:13:37 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
00:13:39[Saint]Without an ungodly hack it's not even possible to run it on anything past 4.*
00:14:03[Saint]And anything under 6.* is a massive security clusterfuck no one in their right mind should use for anything.
00:14:17[Saint]I'm...conflicted about it.
00:14:41TheSevenwhat about the win32 sim builds? I guess we should at least take care of those
00:15:00[Saint]Yes, quite probably.
00:17:08 Quit petur (Remote host closed the connection)
00:29:50 Quit TheSeven (Remote host closed the connection)
00:33:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:47:35 Join Linton [0] (586862d9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.104.98.217)
00:54:24Linton__builtin: In addition to the 5 puzzles that only crash on today's build or 3.14, there are 8 which only crash on Thursday's build, namely dominosa, lightup, magnets, pegs, range, signpost, slant, and untangle.
00:55:13LintonThat's in addition to the 4 that always crash: fifteen, intertia, rect and tents
00:55:14[Saint]That makes no immediate sense.
00:56:18LintonBecause there are no changes in today's build that could cause a crash, logically?
00:57:12[Saint]Yes.
00:57:13[Saint]On the surface of things, 6bba062 should be entirely benign.
00:57:38[Saint]It's just a slightly different way of doing what was already happening, without the chance for unwanted collision.
00:58:38LintonYes, that's what I thought from reading the source code, but testing seems to say different.
01:00
01:02:12[Saint]Can you be a Sweetheart for me and, if you haven't, attempt to reproduce from an absolutely clean .rockbox?
01:03:05[Saint]I would just like to know that you can reproduce this with a clean config and no chance of binary weirdness.
01:03:57[Saint]preferably back up your .rockbox in case it does magically fix it so I can have a look at why.
01:07:08 Quit ender` (Quit: A user interface is like a joke. If you have to explain it, it's not that good.)
01:07:15 Quit __builtin (Quit: No Ping reply in 240 seconds.)
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01:24:04Linton[Saint]: I've done as you asked (deleted .rockbox, clean install of 6bba062 from the zip rockbox.org), and, believe it or not, the strangeness persists.
01:24:39[Saint]Oh, I believe it. It just makes zero sense on the surface.
01:26:27LintonI copied the .rock files for bridges, flip, galaxies, map, netslide, tracks from 504346a and ran them on 6bba062 without crashes.
01:28:12[Saint]o_o
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01:42:36chatter29hey guys
01:42:39chatter29allah is doing
01:42:44chatter29sun is not doing allah is doing
01:42:45chatter29to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
01:42:50 Quit chatter29 (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
01:43:58Mode"#rockbox +o [Saint]" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
01:43:59Mode"#rockbox +b chatter29!*@*" by [Saint] (~sinner@rockbox/staff/saint)
01:43:59Mode"#rockbox -o [Saint]" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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01:55:46[Saint]__builtin: does that make even the slightest bit of sense to you?
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02:09:46 Quit amiconn (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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02:10:02__builtinwait, so let me get this straight
02:10:44__builtinthere's a difference in what crashes and what doesn't after my commit today?
02:10:56__builtinthat's... very highly improbable
02:12:03__builtinthere's no requirement that a plugin release the audio buffer when exiting, is there?
02:12:42[Saint]it's not required, AFAIK, but...why wouldn't you?
02:13:08LintonI should point out that I'm running the builds from the website - possibly I'm getting an artifact from different build enviroments, rather than a true result of source code changes?
02:13:20__builtinpossibly
02:13:56__builtinthat's the only thing that would explain it, actually
02:15:04[Saint]it's not really /possible/ to get a build system artefact, is it?
02:15:30[Saint]ccache would only work for binary identical objects, and $OUT gets nuked between rounds.
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02:16:12__builtinthey're all built using the same toolchain, too, right?
02:16:34[Saint]Yes.
02:16:58__builtinI'll take a look at the .rock files from each build
02:18:25__builtinLinton: you're testing on the zip?
02:19:46 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739)
02:20:34LintonYes, that's right.
02:21:42__builtinargh, no archived builds available online
02:22:32__builtinI'll just build both locally and see if there's any significant difference in the binaries
02:26:29__builtinyep, both 504346a and HEAD are byte-for-byte identical
02:27:35__builtinwhich is expected, they were built from the same preprocessed sources
02:32:21Lintonhttp://download.rockbox.org/daily/sansaclipzip/rockbox-sansaclipzip-20170519.zip
02:33:41Linton...contains non-crashing versions of bridges and tracks.
02:33:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:35:50Lintonhttps://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-sansaclipzip.zip (as of 5 hours ago, at least) contains crashing versions.
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04:23:03Strife89https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ArticlesAboutRockbox First update in four years. :)
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17:00:45asymsuconsaratoga: I wouldn't mind testing, but as far as optimization, I'm afraid I lack the required skills
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19:05:22duo8i can pick up an ipod 5g 30gb
19:05:38duo8how does it compare to the 60gb version (which has more memory)
19:05:51duo8or newer 6g/7g models?
19:06:35gevaertsThe 60gb will (IIRC) also be thicker, heavier, and have a bigger battery
19:06:57gevaertsMemory isn't guaranteed if there's a repair/refurbish history
19:08:01gevaertsCPU is a bit slow for the display size, everything really depends on what you want to do with the thing
19:08:13*gevaerts will delegate explaining why the 6g is better to [Saint] :)
19:12:22duo8but is there an advantage to 64mb memory?
19:12:36duo8and what do you mean the cpu is "slow"?
19:14:29gevaerts64mb will give you more audio buffer, which means fewer disk spin-ups, which means more battery life
19:15:12gevaertsBy "slow" I mean, "not fast" :)
19:17:02duo8eh it plays music so i guess it's fine
19:17:17duo8i can use it as a primary player till mine gets a port
19:17:18gevaertsBasically while actively using the device (browsing files, ...) the CPU needs to spend some time on every pixel on the screen, and the video with its *huge* 320x240 16 bit colour screen has to do a lot more work than say a mini (which has more or less the same CPU) with a 160x128 2 bit screen
19:17:52gevaertsAnd then of course some audio formats want more CPU, or things like EQ
19:17:59duo8does it lag or something
19:18:47gevaertsThe UI might feel a bit slow, and if you try audio that's too heavy it'll skip or not play at all
19:19:02gevaertsIt all depends on what sort of thing you want to play
19:21:14gevaertsogg, flac, mp3 will always be fine (I'm assuming 44.1/48kHz 16 bit max. Anything higher isn't sane *anyway*), I'm not sure about opus, and ape is not a good idea on *any* portable device
19:21:55gevaertshttps://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CodecPerformanceComparison might help, or it might confuse you :)
19:23:38gevaertsBasically you want at least something like 120% realtime, and if you want EQ a bit (to a lot, depending on how many bands) more
19:24:23gevaertsSorry, when I said "ape is not a good idea on any portable device", I meant "ape is not a good idea" :)
19:26:51gevaertsI suspect the 6g will be a lot better in (almost?) every respect, but I guess it'll also be a lot more expensive
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19:45:33duo8yeah they really are
19:45:49duo8this beat up ipod 5g 30gb: $10
19:46:01duo8ipod 6g: $100
19:47:13SammysHPis there already a ipod with micro usb? :)
19:47:49duo8never
19:47:55SammysHPtoo bad
19:48:08duo8apple will die 3 times before they adhere to any popular standard
19:49:47gevaertsOh, also, any ipod video you get today will of course probably have a ten year old battery in it, so you may well have to replace that
19:51:08duo8yeah
19:51:19duo8does it require soldering ?
19:53:36gevaertsI don't think so, but opening the case cleanly is a bit tricky
19:53:41gevaertsifixit has a guide
19:53:54duo8oh yeah
19:54:14duo8that one that tells you to use a putty spade
19:54:44gevaertsThey make a *fortune* selling those :)
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20:01:44duo8wait it's called a putty knife
20:03:18duo8http://i.imgur.com/XztJTrp.png
20:11:35SammysHP"opening the case cleanly is a bit tricky" – opening it is usually the easy task. at least with welded/glued cases like the sansa
20:12:07SammysHPbtw: is there a good way to close a sansa clip+ after opening it?
20:12:18SammysHP(or just glue?)
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20:27:45Bilgus_phHUH the sansa clip+ has like 6 clips inside same with the sport maybe you mean the clip v1?
20:29:40SammysHPwhat? it has clips? :O no, I have the clip+ but never opened it
20:29:59Bilgus_phAlso i can tell you a metal anything is not the way to open a plastic case unless its a screwdriver to remove screws always go plastic credit cards guitar picks. plastic silverware etc. plastic putty knives even
20:30:01SammysHPfeared to break it and never get it together again
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20:30:35SammysHPthen I should really think about replacing that dying battery
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20:31:23SammysHP(clip+ has clips, duh!)
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20:31:59Bilgus_phI used two credit cards and started on the long side opposite of the volume switch take a look at the photos of the internals on rockbox.org and note where those clips are
20:32:46Bilgus_phBe careful dont pry at the sd slot opening its super thin
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20:34:13SammysHPthanks for the tips! shouldn't be hard for me, opened so many clipped cases in my life…
20:34:20Bilgus_phMake sure sd card is out the open it like a book with the power port being the spine
20:36:12Bilgus_phThe adhesive on battery is the hardest part imo. Use side of credit card to push through the foam take care with wires you don't want to rip the pads off the board
20:40:11Bilgus_phStarting it is the key thats where two cards comes in so you can keep the clips on one side from re clippping
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22:27:34AirwaveI have a Sansa Clip+. Software-wise it works great (running Rockbox 3.14), but the buttons are very slugglish, requiring hard presses and multiple attempts. I think it might be dust, so I'm considering opening it up and trying to clean it out. Any tips?
22:32:24Bilgus_I don't think I'd try you are likely to break the screen trying to get it detached
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23:16:16AirwaveBilgus_: Any other ideas?
23:20:46Bilgus_the buttons are the metal dome cheapos so idk
23:21:23Bilgus_is it all the buttons or just one or two?
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23:22:49Bilgus_I mean it would be possible to remap a working button to ones that do work
23:28:50Bilgus_non-working
23:32:11AirwaveBilgus_: All of the buttons are annoying to push, but to varying degrees.
23:32:22AirwaveThe down, select, and home buttons are especially bad.
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