#rockbox 2017-05-22

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#rockbox log for 2017-05-22

00:00:26	Marqueteur	Bah. Errant space in the input line got sent by mistake. Sorry.
00:01:01	__builtin	Linton (logs): I might know why
00:02:49	__builtin	well, maybe not actually
00:04:38		Join PurlingNayuki [0] (~Thunderbi@114.255.40.60)
00:06:40	TheSeven	so it looks like something destroyed my build VM
00:07:05	TheSeven	something must have run rm -rf * in the rockbox user's home directory, quite probably the build client or the nightlies job
00:07:43	TheSeven	possibly as a result of the VM running out of disk space (or at least believing to be doing that due to a btrfs bug)
00:09:01	TheSeven	is it work trying to get that repaired, or would it make more sense to move the nightly win32 sim + android builds over to whatever will host the new repository? maybe some sort of CI system?
00:09:07	TheSeven	is it worth*
00:10:13	[Saint]	we'll need to make some changes in mainline before RaaA builds again.
00:10:27	[Saint]	Unless you happened to keep all your platform tools and ancient SDK around.
00:10:51	[Saint]	It's practically impossible to find the versions head will build with these days.
00:11:24	[Saint]	Though, this isn't a bad thing. Probably should've bumped the platform API yeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaars ago.
00:11:34	[Saint]	...I think we still target 14.
00:12:19	TheSeven	just wondering if I should put any effort in trying to get that back up and running or if we should consolidate that stuff somewhere else anyway
00:12:38	[Saint]	A few things need to happen, the linker needs to be changed, the platform target needs to be bumped, and there's a couple of paths that moved.
00:13:19	[Saint]	TheSeven: to be honest, I have some serious doubts about the need to keep RaaA alive.
00:13:37		Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
00:13:39	[Saint]	Without an ungodly hack it's not even possible to run it on anything past 4.*
00:14:03	[Saint]	And anything under 6.* is a massive security clusterfuck no one in their right mind should use for anything.
00:14:17	[Saint]	I'm...conflicted about it.
00:14:41	TheSeven	what about the win32 sim builds? I guess we should at least take care of those
00:15:00	[Saint]	Yes, quite probably.
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00:54:24	Linton	__builtin: In addition to the 5 puzzles that only crash on today's build or 3.14, there are 8 which only crash on Thursday's build, namely dominosa, lightup, magnets, pegs, range, signpost, slant, and untangle.
00:55:13	Linton	That's in addition to the 4 that always crash: fifteen, intertia, rect and tents
00:55:14	[Saint]	That makes no immediate sense.
00:56:18	Linton	Because there are no changes in today's build that could cause a crash, logically?
00:57:12	[Saint]	Yes.
00:57:13	[Saint]	On the surface of things, 6bba062 should be entirely benign.
00:57:38	[Saint]	It's just a slightly different way of doing what was already happening, without the chance for unwanted collision.
00:58:38	Linton	Yes, that's what I thought from reading the source code, but testing seems to say different.
01:00
01:02:12	[Saint]	Can you be a Sweetheart for me and, if you haven't, attempt to reproduce from an absolutely clean .rockbox?
01:03:05	[Saint]	I would just like to know that you can reproduce this with a clean config and no chance of binary weirdness.
01:03:57	[Saint]	preferably back up your .rockbox in case it does magically fix it so I can have a look at why.
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01:24:04	Linton	[Saint]: I've done as you asked (deleted .rockbox, clean install of 6bba062 from the zip rockbox.org), and, believe it or not, the strangeness persists.
01:24:39	[Saint]	Oh, I believe it. It just makes zero sense on the surface.
01:26:27	Linton	I copied the .rock files for bridges, flip, galaxies, map, netslide, tracks from 504346a and ran them on 6bba062 without crashes.
01:28:12	[Saint]	o_o
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01:42:36	chatter29	hey guys
01:42:39	chatter29	allah is doing
01:42:44	chatter29	sun is not doing allah is doing
01:42:45	chatter29	to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
01:42:50		Quit chatter29 (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
01:43:58	Mode	"#rockbox +o [Saint]" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
01:43:59	Mode	"#rockbox +b chatter29!@" by [Saint] (~sinner@rockbox/staff/saint)
01:43:59	Mode	"#rockbox -o [Saint]" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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01:55:46	[Saint]	__builtin: does that make even the slightest bit of sense to you?
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02:10:02	__builtin	wait, so let me get this straight
02:10:44	__builtin	there's a difference in what crashes and what doesn't after my commit today?
02:10:56	__builtin	that's... very highly improbable
02:12:03	__builtin	there's no requirement that a plugin release the audio buffer when exiting, is there?
02:12:42	[Saint]	it's not required, AFAIK, but...why wouldn't you?
02:13:08	Linton	I should point out that I'm running the builds from the website - possibly I'm getting an artifact from different build enviroments, rather than a true result of source code changes?
02:13:20	__builtin	possibly
02:13:56	__builtin	that's the only thing that would explain it, actually
02:15:04	[Saint]	it's not really /possible/ to get a build system artefact, is it?
02:15:30	[Saint]	ccache would only work for binary identical objects, and $OUT gets nuked between rounds.
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02:16:12	__builtin	they're all built using the same toolchain, too, right?
02:16:34	[Saint]	Yes.
02:16:58	__builtin	I'll take a look at the .rock files from each build
02:18:25	__builtin	Linton: you're testing on the zip?
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02:20:34	Linton	Yes, that's right.
02:21:42	__builtin	argh, no archived builds available online
02:22:32	__builtin	I'll just build both locally and see if there's any significant difference in the binaries
02:26:29	__builtin	yep, both 504346a and HEAD are byte-for-byte identical
02:27:35	__builtin	which is expected, they were built from the same preprocessed sources
02:32:21	Linton	http://download.rockbox.org/daily/sansaclipzip/rockbox-sansaclipzip-20170519.zip
02:33:41	Linton	...contains non-crashing versions of bridges and tracks.
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02:35:50	Linton	https://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-sansaclipzip.zip (as of 5 hours ago, at least) contains crashing versions.
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04:23:03	Strife89	https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ArticlesAboutRockbox First update in four years. :)
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17:00:45	asymsucon	saratoga: I wouldn't mind testing, but as far as optimization, I'm afraid I lack the required skills
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19:05:22	duo8	i can pick up an ipod 5g 30gb
19:05:38	duo8	how does it compare to the 60gb version (which has more memory)
19:05:51	duo8	or newer 6g/7g models?
19:06:35	gevaerts	The 60gb will (IIRC) also be thicker, heavier, and have a bigger battery
19:06:57	gevaerts	Memory isn't guaranteed if there's a repair/refurbish history
19:08:01	gevaerts	CPU is a bit slow for the display size, everything really depends on what you want to do with the thing
19:08:13	*	gevaerts will delegate explaining why the 6g is better to [Saint] :)
19:12:22	duo8	but is there an advantage to 64mb memory?
19:12:36	duo8	and what do you mean the cpu is "slow"?
19:14:29	gevaerts	64mb will give you more audio buffer, which means fewer disk spin-ups, which means more battery life
19:15:12	gevaerts	By "slow" I mean, "not fast" :)
19:17:02	duo8	eh it plays music so i guess it's fine
19:17:17	duo8	i can use it as a primary player till mine gets a port
19:17:18	gevaerts	Basically while actively using the device (browsing files, ...) the CPU needs to spend some time on every pixel on the screen, and the video with its huge 320x240 16 bit colour screen has to do a lot more work than say a mini (which has more or less the same CPU) with a 160x128 2 bit screen
19:17:52	gevaerts	And then of course some audio formats want more CPU, or things like EQ
19:17:59	duo8	does it lag or something
19:18:47	gevaerts	The UI might feel a bit slow, and if you try audio that's too heavy it'll skip or not play at all
19:19:02	gevaerts	It all depends on what sort of thing you want to play
19:21:14	gevaerts	ogg, flac, mp3 will always be fine (I'm assuming 44.1/48kHz 16 bit max. Anything higher isn't sane anyway), I'm not sure about opus, and ape is not a good idea on any portable device
19:21:55	gevaerts	https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CodecPerformanceComparison might help, or it might confuse you :)
19:23:38	gevaerts	Basically you want at least something like 120% realtime, and if you want EQ a bit (to a lot, depending on how many bands) more
19:24:23	gevaerts	Sorry, when I said "ape is not a good idea on any portable device", I meant "ape is not a good idea" :)
19:26:51	gevaerts	I suspect the 6g will be a lot better in (almost?) every respect, but I guess it'll also be a lot more expensive
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19:45:33	duo8	yeah they really are
19:45:49	duo8	this beat up ipod 5g 30gb: $10
19:46:01	duo8	ipod 6g: $100
19:47:13	SammysHP	is there already a ipod with micro usb? :)
19:47:49	duo8	never
19:47:55	SammysHP	too bad
19:48:08	duo8	apple will die 3 times before they adhere to any popular standard
19:49:47	gevaerts	Oh, also, any ipod video you get today will of course probably have a ten year old battery in it, so you may well have to replace that
19:51:08	duo8	yeah
19:51:19	duo8	does it require soldering ?
19:53:36	gevaerts	I don't think so, but opening the case cleanly is a bit tricky
19:53:41	gevaerts	ifixit has a guide
19:53:54	duo8	oh yeah
19:54:14	duo8	that one that tells you to use a putty spade
19:54:44	gevaerts	They make a fortune selling those :)
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20:01:44	duo8	wait it's called a putty knife
20:03:18	duo8	http://i.imgur.com/XztJTrp.png
20:11:35	SammysHP	"opening the case cleanly is a bit tricky" – opening it is usually the easy task. at least with welded/glued cases like the sansa
20:12:07	SammysHP	btw: is there a good way to close a sansa clip+ after opening it?
20:12:18	SammysHP	(or just glue?)
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20:27:45	Bilgus_ph	HUH the sansa clip+ has like 6 clips inside same with the sport maybe you mean the clip v1?
20:29:40	SammysHP	what? it has clips? :O no, I have the clip+ but never opened it
20:29:59	Bilgus_ph	Also i can tell you a metal anything is not the way to open a plastic case unless its a screwdriver to remove screws always go plastic credit cards guitar picks. plastic silverware etc. plastic putty knives even
20:30:01	SammysHP	feared to break it and never get it together again
20:30:25		Join JanC_ [0] (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC)
20:30:35	SammysHP	then I should really think about replacing that dying battery
20:31:16		Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20:31:23	SammysHP	(clip+ has clips, duh!)
20:31:42		Nick JanC_ is now known as JanC (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC)
20:31:59	Bilgus_ph	I used two credit cards and started on the long side opposite of the volume switch take a look at the photos of the internals on rockbox.org and note where those clips are
20:32:46	Bilgus_ph	Be careful dont pry at the sd slot opening its super thin
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20:34:13	SammysHP	thanks for the tips! shouldn't be hard for me, opened so many clipped cases in my life…
20:34:20	Bilgus_ph	Make sure sd card is out the open it like a book with the power port being the spine
20:36:12	Bilgus_ph	The adhesive on battery is the hardest part imo. Use side of credit card to push through the foam take care with wires you don't want to rip the pads off the board
20:40:11	Bilgus_ph	Starting it is the key thats where two cards comes in so you can keep the clips on one side from re clippping
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22:27:34	Airwave	I have a Sansa Clip+. Software-wise it works great (running Rockbox 3.14), but the buttons are very slugglish, requiring hard presses and multiple attempts. I think it might be dust, so I'm considering opening it up and trying to clean it out. Any tips?
22:32:24	Bilgus_	I don't think I'd try you are likely to break the screen trying to get it detached
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23:16:16	Airwave	Bilgus_: Any other ideas?
23:20:46	Bilgus_	the buttons are the metal dome cheapos so idk
23:21:23	Bilgus_	is it all the buttons or just one or two?
23:22:37		Quit petur (Quit: Leaving)
23:22:49	Bilgus_	I mean it would be possible to remap a working button to ones that do work
23:28:50	Bilgus_	non-working
23:32:11	Airwave	Bilgus_: All of the buttons are annoying to push, but to varying degrees.
23:32:22	Airwave	The down, select, and home buttons are especially bad.
23:34:27		Join Galois [0] (djao@efnet-math.org)

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