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#rockbox log for 2017-09-18

00:00:19[Saint]If it's the same issue we're thinking of it was more a user issue than a decoding issue.
00:00:43pamauryrobertd1: does the file crash on other rockbox targets?
00:00:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:00:55pamaury(non-nwz targets)
00:01:04pamauryalso can you send it to me?
00:01:25robertd1no, it does play flawlessly in the ipod classics and in the sansa clip
00:01:45robertd1Sure pamaury, ill send it to your email adress
00:01:49pamaurythanks
00:02:09__builtindo we want to go ahead and decide on a tentative date for the next release?
00:02:30[Saint]Nope.
00:05:05pamaurygevaerts: do I need to do something special when I change builds.pm ?
00:05:50 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
00:08:36fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 1091 seconds.
00:08:38fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 6a62cc1 result: 6 errors 0 warnings
00:12:36 Join Jinx [0] (Dojo@unaffiliated/jinx)
00:14:31[Saint]__builtin: before we do that, I think we need to have a very real and extremely long overdue discussion.
00:14:49[Saint]And we need it to be between all available project members.
00:15:06__builtinyes?
00:15:25[Saint]Gimme a second to settle myself out and not be so busy and I'll explain my reasoning.
00:15:31[Saint]~5 mins.
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00:23:40[Saint]OK, right. Releases.
00:25:22[Saint]If we do do another release, I think we need to make it what would essentially be the final run for SWCODEC and CHARCELL devices. They hold us back, and there hasn't been a specific commit for any of those targets that wasn't fixing up them breaking the build system in absolutely years.
00:25:45__builtinHWCODEC you mean?
00:26:02[Saint]Bah, yes. Sorry.
00:26:28[Saint]From there I think we should move away from a release model and just do our nightlies.
00:26:43[Saint]I think both of those allow us more freedom.
00:27:18[Saint]Basically forking off those targets as legacy targets and moving away from them. Remove them from the build system.
00:27:49__builtinThat was actually brought up around the time of the last release
00:28:20[Saint]It's been brought up for years because it's an entirely sane thing to do.
00:28:20__builtinI believe we agreed that 3.14 would be the last release for HWCODEC targets
00:29:27[Saint]The core code is at a point now and has been for years where releases don't provide a meaningful distinction in quality.
00:30:22[Saint]So, I say, if we do do another release it should be to put the legacy targets to bed and allow us to move forward.
00:30:53[Saint]But this needs to be more than the decision of a few people. This needs some democracy.
00:31:30[Saint]I don't really think anyone is going to object but they need to be given the opportunity to.
00:32:25Bilgus___builtin, did you ever get an answer back on download numbers for individual targets??
00:32:41[Saint]It's shitty having to think about features in the sense of a few bytes making a massive difference and/or having to disable other features just so the binary will still fit in ROM.
00:32:45__builtinBilgus_: no, I haven't
00:32:59[Saint]Makes people have to make shit decisions.
00:33:35[Saint]It would probably make some sense to actually roll back HWCODEC and CHARCELL builds back a bit.
00:33:41Bilgus_Personally, I'd like to see if there is anyone still even actively downloading updates for any of those targets
00:33:51[Saint]To before we needed to start carving them up.
00:34:17__builtinI'll email zagor
00:34:55Bilgus_Saint, Wouldn't it be pretty hard to decide where to lay down that line?
00:35:25[Saint]The few people we know that use these targets freely confess that they use ancient builds because the releases or nightlies haven't offered anything you'd actually want or need to update for for years.
00:35:25__builtinwhat do you mean by "roll back"?
00:35:44Bilgus_I'd almost say leve them where they lie and people can decide what legacy version they want?
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00:35:58[Saint]Yeah...it's a tough call.
00:38:01[Saint]But, yeah, the very core of my position is that legacy targets are long overdue for removal.
00:38:15[Saint]They basically don't do anything but break the build system.
00:38:30Bilgus_and add a whole lot of conditionals
00:38:38[Saint]Yep.
00:39:08__builtinAs for dropping releases completely, that's not a bad idea either
00:39:12[Saint]Removing them from the source cleanly is another story entirely.
00:39:57[Saint]That should be done but it's not as pressing as allowing developers the freedom to think about the core without having to consider them.
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00:40:52[Saint]People could just pick off the HWCODEC/CHARCELL conditionals in the core as they come across them.
00:41:06[Saint]Or we could do a big push to get it over and done with.
00:41:27[Saint]But overall people need to agree about the direction first.
00:42:13__builtinCouldn't we just remove them from the build system and leave them be?
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00:44:17[Saint]That's an option, sure.
00:44:18Bilgus_Short term seems like thatd work but, Why would you want to leave them in after that?
00:44:29[Saint]Right.
00:45:09__builtinWell, in case someone wanted to continue work on them, they'd still be there
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00:45:55Bilgus_I'd think the idea would be then go back to the legacy code base and fork (it) yourself
00:46:14[Saint]Yeah. That's my preferred position
00:46:31[Saint]I don't like the idea of thousands of lines of dead code.
00:46:49[Saint]But as I say the more immediate issue is giving them a nice send-off
00:47:17__builtin3.14 was supposed to be that
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05:17:44geo626Hi! Can anyone help with installation on ipod classic 160gb. I followed the instruction on freemyipod.org tried stable and legacy zip however whenever I try to add music. I wouldn't go past 5GB of usage.
05:17:55geo626After 5GB I cannot add anymore
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05:22:42geo626I am using teracopy for transferring files if that can be an issue
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07:33:18johnb4pamaury (logs): I had reported the flac crash before for the NWZ-E450. Doesn't happen with E580 or A20. It happens with every flac file I tried (no album art included).
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09:00
09:10:30pamauryI thought we agreed to drop HWCODEC already but we can always ask again to be sure. I am not sure if we should drop releases or not, they provide one advantage as they identify points in time and we keep a binaries for a longer time. The problem with dev builds if that you can get the last build but not the one before.
09:30:50fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 048aecd, 273 builds, 15 clients.
09:31:19wodzpamaury: If my memory serves we never officially agreed to drop hwcodec
09:31:30pamauryah ok
09:48:19fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 1048 seconds.
09:48:20fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 048aecd result: 5 errors 0 warnings
09:53:14wodzThis errors seems random and totally unrelated. :/
09:53:30pamaurythis is really werid all builds appear in http://build.rockbox.org/ except S750 again, I don't know why
09:53:47pamauryyeah, sounds either like broken tool or a race condition in the makefile
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09:54:53pamaurythe one about eeprom.h est really strange though
09:55:01pamauryeeprom_setting.h
09:55:31wodzIt looks like race condition. Seems like some autogenerated content is not populated all the way when it is picked up by something.
09:57:01pamauryyeah but eeprom_setting.h is not autogenerated (whereas lang.h is)
09:57:29wodzyeah, eeprom_setting.h causing error is truly strange
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09:59:08pamaurycould it be an issue with ccache?
10:00
10:01:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:02:47wodzpamaury: eeprom_setting.h thing is not specific to the target AND build client. It was hit by vm2-b0hoon building vibe500, mercury-pamaury building fuzev2, vm1-b0hoon building gogearsa9200sim
10:04:09wodzI can't see the pattern
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10:06:50pamauryneither can I
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20:20:05lebelliumpamaury_: I actually found a difference between the E350 and E450
20:20:12lebelliumthe E450 has voice recording
20:26:24pamaury_haha, nice catch :)
20:26:39pamaury_you should edit the wiki now :-p
20:29:13lebelliumI changed my PC but I have the same issue as with the previous one when trying to edit in Firefox. The login button goes to the UserRegistration page
20:30:21pamaury_hm, I don't have this problem
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20:30:34pamaury(and I use firefox)
20:31:58lebelliumand there is spam on the wiki again
20:32:00lebellium:(
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20:42:39lebelliumpamaury: also, regarding NWZ-A10 vs NW-A20, I think it's a typo on Sony-Asia website
20:42:49lebelliumother sources say A10 has bluetooth 3.0 too http://helpguide.sony.net/dmp/nwza10/v1/en/contents/TP0000428527.html
20:49:41pamauryok, it's not very important anyway
20:51:03lebelliumI changed a bit the instructions here https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWLinuxPort
20:51:37lebelliumassuming the bootloader file has the model and version/date in its name
20:51:42lebelliumlike we discussed yesterday
20:55:59johnb4Is there really A13 or A14?
20:56:13lebelliumno
20:56:36johnb4 then I volunteer to correct https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNW
20:56:51johnb4which lists them
20:56:53lebelliumthey do exist in files
20:57:08lebelliummeaning sony might have thought to release them
20:57:14lebelliumbut finally didn't
20:57:41johnb4So just keep the wiki as is?
20:58:07lebelliumit depends if we want to mention what is in the source files pamaury used
20:58:13lebelliumor if we want to mention the reality
20:58:15lebellium:P
20:59:14lebelliumusually the service manual is a good way to check what capacity was released or not
21:00
21:02:20lebelliumthere were NWZ-A15 and NWZ-A17 worldwide and NW-A15 and NW-A16 in Japan
21:02:51lebelliumNW-A16 and NW-A17 in Japan, sorry
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21:12:34pamauryfeel free to do whatever you want, I base my research on Sony's allocated list of model IDs, if you prefer to base it on reality you are welcome ;)
21:13:07lebelliumI don't kwow what's the best
21:13:21lebelliumwe can put both
21:14:42lebelliumor not :D
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22:26:27lebelliumis it possible to rename a page on the wiki?
22:26:54lebelliumSonyNWA10 should rather be SonyNWZA10
22:29:27pamaurylebellium: "More topic actions" -> "Rename or move topic"
22:30:39lebelliumthanks
22:33:54lebelliumlooks like SonyNWLinuxPort is a sub-page of SonyNWZE460
22:33:56lebellium?!
22:35:45pamauryodd
22:35:58pamauryI thought sub-pages were determined by names
22:36:05pamauryie XY is a subpage of X
22:36:15pamauryyou should probably edit that too :-p
22:36:41lebelliumwell dealing with that may be risky
22:36:47lebelliumI don't know if I want to edit it myself :P
22:39:13 Join micah [0] (~micah@debian/developer/micah)
22:42:24lebelliumdone
22:45:15*pamaury is afraid to check whether lebellium destroyed the entire wiki
22:45:22lebelliumaha
22:46:51lebelliumI added "see also SonyNWLinuxport" to https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNW but I think we should better distinguish between Linux-based ports and others on this page since it's the "home page" for Sony ports
22:49:06 Quit bray90820 ()
22:50:52pamaurylebellium: yes the goal of the SonyNW page is to give pointers to the various devices. Ideally people click on the link to their device, like SonyNWZA10, then this page says that's part of the more general SonyNWLinux
22:54:24lebelliumwould it be relevant to add 2 columns in the player list table: Rockbox supported: Yes or No and Port type: Native or Linux-based or something like that?
22:56:10lebelliumjust to get a quick overview
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