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#rockbox log for 2017-09-19

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08:47:10CH23morning!
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08:48:09CH23Bilgus: thanks, the multiboot works. I do have one question: for building new firmware, do i only need patch http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/1613/
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14:26:23pamauryI have upload the bootloader for sony on dropbox since Zagor is not responding. We'll switch them to download.rockbox.org when they are available. https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWLinuxPort now has the links
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14:34:41robertd1Pamaury thanks for the updloads
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14:53:00BilgusCH23 (logs), yes 1613 has all the goods http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,51844.msg240296.html#msg240296
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15:31:47fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 99cc8f8, 273 builds, 15 clients.
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16:00:56pamauryI suspect the build server does a very poor job of assigning some builds, leading to one client doing all the builds at the end while the other sit and do nothing
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16:06:20pamaurygreat, it's stuck again
16:09:21pamauryif only we could access some debug logs of the server, we could at least try to understand the problem...
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19:55:48lebelliumpamaury (logs): thanks for the dropbox links!
19:56:09lebelliumIs it normal that there is no result in scsitool?
19:56:13lebelliumD:\Users\Ludo\Documents\Sony Walkman>scsitool-nwz-v9.exe E: do_fw_upgrade
19:56:14lebelliumResult:
19:56:16lebelliumD:\Users\Ludo\Documents\Sony Walkman>
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20:02:13pamaurylebellium: I don't remember, the result is that your device reboots :-p
20:02:20lebelliumI know
20:02:26lebelliumit's obvious
20:02:33lebelliumbut... why? :P
20:02:57lebelliumIs "result" a generic line for all commands?
20:04:28pamauryyes
20:04:45lebelliumok
20:04:52pamauryI'll have a look to make it less confusing
20:05:11lebelliumregarding the bootloader, I don't know if you remember but we discussed about some improvement ideas back to the time
20:05:33lebelliumlike for example the fact that it remembers the last choice (Rockbox or OF)
20:05:40pamauryit does remember the last choice
20:06:02pamauryat least over suspend (but not over reboots)
20:06:27lebelliumwhen I power off from Rockbox, it goes back to the bootloader screen
20:06:34lebelliumand you have the 10s timeout again
20:06:41lebelliumI have to go to Tools>Shutdown
20:07:45pamauryyes I don't think doing a real power down is a good choice. Maybe we could suspend on "power off", but then we would need a way to go back to the bootloader
20:09:02lebelliumso how do you currently suspend it?
20:09:40pamaurythe bootloader suspends it on timeout (on hold)
20:10:11pamauryyou should anyway always put it on hold when you power off because any button wakes up the device
20:10:25lebelliumah yes I didn't remember the hold trick
20:10:43lebelliumit's strange because when you press any key it wakes up immediately
20:10:51lebelliumit's hard to believe it's "off" :D
20:11:07pamaurybecause it's not off
20:11:11lebelliumyes
20:11:14lebelliumit's suspended
20:11:18lebelliumbut it works too well
20:12:00pamauryI mean I see no problem in mapping our "power off" to suspend, but then we need a way to go back to the bootloader, maybe an option in the system menu?
20:12:31pamauryProbably this shoudl be explained on the wiki by the way
20:12:53lebelliumeven if you add an option in the Rockbox system menu, what if you launched the OF? the reset hole? :S
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20:14:36lebelliumThe hold trick is actually quite good (assuming the hold button is not broken), it must just be documented indeed
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20:15:39pamauryif you reset, it launches the bootloader first
20:15:55pamauryit you launch the OF then, the only way to go back to the bootloader is usb mode or reset hole
20:16:12lebelliumah indeed
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20:16:56pamaurydo you want to edit the wiki to describe all this or should I do it?
20:17:16pamaurylebellium: by the way, could you ask people aroun about this: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,51792.msg240550.html#msg240550
20:17:32pamaurybasically I need someone with a non-black NW-A35 to run a few scsitool commands
20:17:55lebelliumIs it possible to have 2 different behaviours for the same key? Like 2-3s press on "pwr off" is suspend and 5s is fully off?
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20:19:05pamaurynot with the current rockbox code
20:19:12pamauryalso I think it would be confusing
20:21:48lebelliumIf it's possible, I would then add a setting in system menu for the power off behaviour: back to bootloader or suspend
20:22:08lebelliumthus it would be possible to avoid the annoying timeout at startup and shutdown
20:27:03lebelliumI'll see for the non-black A35
20:29:54lebelliumpamaury:
20:29:59lebelliumCharcoal Black : 00 00 00 00
20:30:01lebelliumBordeaux Pink : 04 00 00 00
20:30:02lebelliumCinnabar Red : 05 00 00 00
20:30:04lebelliumViridian Blue : 07 00 00 00
20:30:05lebelliumLime Yellow : 0b 00 00 00
20:30:07lebelliumis not enough?
20:34:03lebelliumnevermind, I understood your issue
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20:39:26pamauryI still don't know for sure if the color is store on the nvp but that seems plausible, hopefully we can find where
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20:39:45lebelliumI asked for a volunteer on my french forum
20:39:49lebelliumwill see
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20:44:42pamaurycool thanks, I hope the nvp node is in the list of the one I dump in the script
20:46:06lebelliumI assume nothing more in the service manual page 9 helps you?
20:53:16CH23Bilgus: thanks, i tried building it but i seem to receive some errors. first here's the bash script i run: https://pastebin.com/RF6LJ4LN and here's the output: https://ghostbin.com/paste/q2zmo
20:53:35CH23i'm a noob when it comes to this stuff not working
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20:56:13Bilguswhat are the contents of saving rejects to file firmware/include/dircache_redirect.h.rej
20:56:22pamaurylebellium: not really
20:57:18lebelliumok
20:57:59lebelliumI'm writing a first draft for how the bootloader is working
20:58:02lebelliumon the wiki
20:58:13CH23https://ghostbin.com/paste/33hcu Bilgus
21:00
21:05:47BilgusCH23 try adding http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/1556/ prior to 1613
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21:15:29pamaurylebellium: in your draft, I think it's important to explain the difference between: bootloader, rockbox, OF, USB screen. With pictures
21:15:41pamauryand then how one goes from one to another (if possible)
21:17:54CH23Bilgus: it seems to work now. will now put it on my SD and see if it runs.
21:19:03Bilgusok good I really don't remember having to put on 1556 first but since its the parent of 1613 It is probably automagic when doing an actual checkout
21:19:40CH23i tried that but got so many files and really i just want simple stuff
21:25:43CH23what's nvram.bin, found in .rockbox?
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21:26:33Bilgusit holds player settings
21:26:40lebelliumpamaury: https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWLinuxPort
21:27:46pamauryCH23: iirc it's on old trick to store "nvram setting" in a file when the player does not have an nvram
21:27:55pamaurybut I don't know/think it's really used anymore
21:28:35pamauryI might be wrong, but still most settings are not stored there for sure
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21:32:14pamaurylebellium: I think it's pretty clear overall. It's missing one bit: "how to activate usb mode?"
21:32:27lebelliumit's missing because I didn't really test it ahaha
21:32:29pamauryyou need to explain one has to go back to the bootloader from rockbox
21:32:30lebelliumfeel free
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21:34:37CH23it seems to boot but i'm a bit confused; in Debug Menu > Boot data, it shows Boot Volume: <0>, Root: /<0>
21:35:49lebelliumpamaury: USB is not working for transferts but charging is working fine in Rockbox?
21:36:51pamauryyes
21:36:59pamauryfor transfers you need to go to the bootloader
21:37:10lebelliumOk
21:37:13lebelliumI add it
21:37:30lebelliumah now, you're already doing it
21:37:32lebellium:P
21:38:36pamauryI added it :-p
21:39:00lebelliuma bit too fast :P
21:39:21lebellium"The OF is always going to the Standby mode when pressing the PWR OFF button. As a result, when turning it back on, it is immediately back to the OF, skipping the bootloader screen." => I assume it can be removed for USB?
21:39:53pamaurynot sure what you mean
21:39:55BilgusCH23, where did you put the .rockbox folder?
21:40:21CH23the root of my µSD card
21:40:27lebelliumpamaury: read again your edit, I think there is a copy&paste mistake
21:40:56pamauryoops yes
21:41:42lebelliumperfect
21:42:05lebelliumWe don't even need a formal user manual
21:42:11lebelliumthose wiki instructions are awesome \o/
21:42:17Bilgusis there a rockbox_main.clipzip file in the root of the sd card ** put '/' no quotes in there to be sure it is pointing to the root of the sd
21:42:18pamauryWe'll update it based on feedback, or on changes to the bootloader
21:43:57CH23i uses a shell, and simply typed >rockbox_main.clipplus
21:44:21CH23clip+ actually
21:45:08Bilguswell edit it and put '/', sorry I thought you were using the clip zip
21:46:05Bilgusin the dbg menu it should read 'Boot Volume: <1> Root:/<1>/
21:46:08Bilgus'
21:46:31CH23how can that menu entry be there though?
21:46:51CH23the original firmware doesn't have it and i can't write to the internal memory
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21:48:01Bilgushmm good point then maybe you have internal memory disabled?? check further down and see if it says CRC: OK!
21:48:14CH23it doesn't say that
21:48:28Bilguswhat does it say?
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21:49:09CH23huh wtf now it says 1 instead of 0
21:49:23Bilgusdoes it say CRC: OK?
21:49:26CH23yes
21:49:32CH23OK! even
21:49:33Bilgusok then all is well
21:49:49Bilgusodd that it didn't at first though
21:49:59Bilgusmight try restart and see what it says
21:50:08CH23doing that already lol
21:51:22CH23when it said 0, the magic was Magic!, now it's slightly distorted, shows tofu
21:52:09CH23as in, tofu, non displayable characters
21:52:38Bilgusyeah it overwrites part of RBMagic! with the data
21:52:51CH23oh ok
21:53:09Bilgusit isn't needed to be intact after the bootloader uses it
21:53:39CH23and now in 'files' it shows microSD0 and microSD1, which it didn't when i just booted first time after replacing the precompiled with mine
21:54:24pamaurygevaerts: who can unstuck the build server
21:54:33gevaertsThe Swedes
21:54:44pamaurylebellium: I looked at scsitool, I just committed something to avoid the "result:" with nothing afterwards
21:54:44BilgusOHHH CH23 you rebooted with ROLO thats why
21:55:05BilgusROLO needs fixed on the FW side as well
21:55:14 Join cc___ [0] (~ac@2001:910:113f:1:6a05:caff:fe1c:1627)
21:55:35CH23but yeah it's all working! i'm happy. also i bought another secondhand sansa clip+ for €10 yesterday!
21:55:53CH23ROLO is the reboot after replacement part of the system?
21:56:06Bilguswhen restarted with ROLO the new firmware gets copied to ram bypassing the boot loader logic
21:56:42Bilgusyep when it asked 'new firmware, restart now?' or whatever the exact phrasing is
21:57:53CH23what is the danger for either internal flash, or µSD in terms of write cycles?
21:58:23Bilguswell flash wears out so the same as it always was?
21:58:38Bilgusbut the SD is easily replaced
21:58:47CH23it's a 200GB card.
21:59:14 Quit krabador (Quit: Leaving)
22:00
22:00:15Bilgusthere would be so many factors, MTBF, how many back-up sectors, how often you change settings etc.
22:01:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:02:29 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador)
22:03:24Bilgusthat being said it doesn't increase writes over the original Rockbox FW it just redirects them to the media of your choice
22:03:51CH23yeah okay, that's cool.
22:05:55 Quit johnb4 (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
22:07:12BilgusAnecdotally, I've been booting from this SD card since FEB with no discernible effect
22:10:10lebelliumpamaury: OK, I'll test it when you upload it
22:10:35lebelliumBTW, there are no builds for A860 and S750 yet, right?
22:13:18pamaurylebellium: they are builds, but for some reason they are not shown on https://build.rockbox.org/ but they appear on https://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi
22:13:24pamauryI have absolutely no idea why
22:13:54lebelliumbut there is no direct download link?
22:14:45pamauryyou can click on the name
22:15:56*pamaury has a flash of genius and knows why
22:16:38pamauryit's fixed but of course it will only work on the next uild
22:16:41pamauryand the server is stuck
22:17:19lebelliumhttps://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-sonynwza860-.zip
22:17:23lebellium-.zip is strange
22:17:35pamauryyeah, it was a typo in the builds file
22:18:36CH23Bilgus: realistically, when i rebuild, what files are really changed? just rockbox.sansa?
22:19:38BilgusGenerally, Yes
22:24:55 Join Strife1989 [0] (~quassel@adsl-98-80-187-104.mcn.bellsouth.net)
22:26:44 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
22:33:54pamauryany ideas on some pair of (key,signature) that could be 30 bytes? Previously Sony used a pair that was 16-bytes, an 8-byte key and an 8-byte signature using DES. But now this 30-byte thing confuses, it's very uncommon
22:34:30pamauryit's also possible those 30-byte could be just a key, which is also uncommon anyway
22:40:36CH23then i can just copy rockbox.sansa over to the .rockbox dir already on the µSD, 99% of the time?
22:42:34Bilgusas long as language files haven't changed and you don't want upgraded plugins then yes
22:44:02CH23i only use the solitaire plugin anyways, so this is fine :)
22:44:47lebelliumpamaury: got a French user who will try to steal the red A35 of his daughter for your test :)
22:45:31lebellium(I wished my son offered me a premium DAP when I was a child!)
22:45:40lebelliummy father*
22:46:00pamauryhaha, I hope he succeeds ;)
22:46:19lebelliumhum
22:46:27lebelliumhe only uses Mac OS
22:46:55pamauryah, unfortunately scsitool does not support mac os at the moment :-/
22:47:49lebelliumno luck
22:47:56lebelliumI'll see if there is another user
22:48:13lebelliumfor sure there might be on head-fi but I have no account there
22:48:44lebelliumanyone here who could post on the A35 thread on head-fi?
23:00
23:01:06 Quit atsampson (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
23:07:05 Join atsampson [0] (~ats@cartman.offog.org)
23:13:35 Quit Aldem (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:13:37 Quit cc___ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
23:15:08 Quit thomasjfox (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
23:15:30 Join Aldem [0] (~Aldem@unaffiliated/aldem)
23:16:31CH23lebellium: i didn't follow the convo, what can i do for you? i'm a head-fi-er
23:17:32pamauryCH23: we are looking for someone with a *non-black* NW-A35 to try what is describe in this post: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,51792.msg240550.html#msg240550
23:17:42fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 27956 seconds.
23:17:45fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 99cc8f8 result: 1 errors 0 warnings
23:17:46fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 5f4de5b, 273 builds, 12 clients.
23:18:08pamaurylebellium cannot access his head-fi account for some reason, could you post on the NW-A35 topic what I just said?
23:18:16pamauryoh the build system is live again :)
23:19:51lebelliumIt's not that I cannot access my account, it's that I don't have one and don't one to create one just for that :)
23:20:10pamauryreally? I thought you were a head-fi user!
23:20:22pamauryactually I think I have an account tough I haven't used it in years
23:20:54lebelliumI have been a moderator on anythingbutipod.com for 10 years
23:21:09lebelliumand on ABI we used to kinda hate Head-fi :P
23:21:38pamaurylol ok, and is ABI dead or it still exists?
23:22:40lebelliumthe hoster crowdgather faced an issue with the servers of all their websites in december last year
23:22:55lebelliumsome websites like iaudiophile.net (cowon) are completely down
23:23:07lebelliumand others like ABI are in a strange state
23:23:13lebelliumbut yes, more or less dead :)
23:23:14pamauryMy head-fi account works actually! Which thread should I post to?
23:23:39lebelliumhttps://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-sony-nw-a30-series.815843/
23:24:16pamaury128 pages :-o
23:24:53robertd1what do you need to post in head -fi, I could do it
23:26:02pamauryah our saviour :) could you post to the aforementioned mentionning that we are looking for someone with a *non-black* NW-A30 series player to try out the instructions there: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,51792.msg240550.html#msg240550
23:26:20pamauryyou can mention that this is to investigate the possibility of changing the color mode
23:26:30pamauryand that it is harmless
23:27:51fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 605 seconds.
23:27:52fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 5f4de5b result: 6 errors 0 warnings
23:28:50CH23i'm already writing a post robertd1
23:29:56robertd1Excellent, please let me know how can I help
23:31:10CH23buy a non black nw-A35 :P
23:31:48CH23https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-sony-nw-a30-series.815843/page-128#post-13732749
23:32:02robertd1 CH23 I have actually wondered why the black model is cheaper than the red or green :)
23:32:47pamaurythanks
23:33:04pamaurylebellium: the builds now appear on https://build.rockbox.org/
23:33:50*pamaury is confused, builder says 6 errors but build table is green
23:35:14*pamaury goes to bed
23:35:19lebelliumYes
23:35:27lebelliumI think we did enough for today :)
23:35:35lebelliumthanks guys and good night
23:36:23 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 55.0.3/20170824053622])
23:40:19 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:59:00 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.)

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