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#rockbox log for 2017-11-14

00:00:46__builtinmaybe move over to #rockbox-community?
00:00:50WilliamCI just know that someone is working with it to develop a Rockbox build for it.
00:01:43WilliamCWindows 10 created a whole lot of different issues, got done dealing that at work for about 4 hours
00:06:36 Part WilliamC ("Leaving")
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00:22:46 Quit ender` (Quit: There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence.— Jeremy S. Anderson)
00:30:14pamaurylogbot did not notice the commit
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07:45:13asymsuconHey, apologies for being irritating sometimes, but does anyone knows what's the voltage and input resistance for the mic on Clip+/Zip?
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07:52:22kevin_2Hi, thank you for implementing Rockbox for Creative players. I got it working on an X-Fi. This is great. My question is about the virtual keyboard. I worked out how to add a character to a string or delete a character from a string (say for a playlist name) but I don't know how to save a string when I'm done with it. Do you know this off the top of your head with the small round X-Fi buttons?
07:53:04kevin_2I checked in the manuals, but I believe there is not yet a manual for any Creative, isn't that right?
07:53:05kevin_2Thanks
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07:57:46Bilgusasymsucon manual sez 15k and 10/20/40 mv p2p https://imgur.com/a/yobzJ
07:58:18kevin_2I am also hearing a beep when I press the "right" key in the grid of 9. I don't know if this means my string is illegal. It currently says //Playlists.m3u8 in the entry line
07:59:06Bilgusthat should be in the playlists directory
07:59:13BilgusI think its a bug
07:59:30kevin_2okay
08:00
08:01:59asymsucon2.95V with 5.7uV ripple
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08:02:50kevin_2Do you know if I can make an empty playlist with a name, back on my PC, bring it over while connected with USB, and have the name show up?
08:04:12kevin_2Oops, I misread "I think its a bug" as directed to me :)
08:04:41asymsuconLooks OK, EM258 fit those specs
08:04:44Bilgusyeah a bug that it doesn't create it in /playlists/
08:05:16kevin_2ah−− it was −− sorry. I thought it was part of the other discussion. I got it now.
08:05:28asymsuconbut the increased sensitivity might be an issue
08:05:34Bilgusif you create it on the pc and bring it back you'll have to disconnect from usb to be able to use the file browser again
08:05:56kevin_2okay
08:06:05asymsucon-40.5dB stock vs -32dB for EM258
08:06:33Bilgusasymsucon, resistor divider..
08:06:47asymsuconyep, I was thinking the same
08:07:01Bilgusit'll change the response somewhat
08:07:10asymsuconbut for such small size, only SMD parts make sense
08:07:37Bilgusyou might need a filter cap too if it skews it too much
08:08:23asymsuconEven the stock one seem to be very hot for recording :)
08:08:25Bilgussmd are actually pretty easy to make little micro circuits with from pcb and a dremel
08:09:24Bilgusthe grabbing them and not dropping them is the part I find difficult
08:09:50Bilgusand for one offs the thrift store is your friend
08:10:17asymsuconThe thing is as EM258 has FET inside, it's very sensitive to temperature so with resistive divider I couldn't mount it directly on PCB
08:11:56Bilgusyou saying during assembly?
08:12:34asymsuconYes, I think everything above 200°C could be disastrous for the mic
08:13:02asymsuconBut only one way to find out :)
08:13:44asymsuconFortunately I have some spare Cardas solder which melts at 170°C
08:14:15asymsuconThat is if I could find out how to get the old mic out of the PCB
08:15:14Bilgusi'd carve it off with a cutting disk
08:19:29kevin_2Ha! That's great. Making the folder beforehand under /Playlists works excellent. I am not accustomed to the two-way interoperability of having my device formatted as FAT, or "Removable Disk". I have been stuck with adding star ratings to songs and then needing to propagate them back to my computer so that I can take the "bad" out of circulation and stop listening to it. Rockbox is an improvement! I'm a big fan as of now.
08:19:48kevin_2thanks for the help
08:22:16Bilgusthen for the circuit i'd do it on a single side of a double sided board https://imgur.com/a/PpL1c
08:22:47Bilgusalign the two holes with the old mic and put the new pads 90 degrees rotated
08:23:26Bilgusthen you can solder two wires on old pads and put through the holes and solder the new mic with some small leads
08:23:32Bilgusassuming it would fit
08:23:38Bilguskevin_2 np
08:24:36BilgusI suppose single sided would work too but I figure double sided might give you better shielding if you tie it to the ground
08:25:40asymsuconthanks @Bilgus
08:26:16asymsuconI'm seeing one issue though - with resistive divider, the supply voltage will be lower, not just signal level
08:27:24Bilgusany attenuation would do that though..
08:28:34asymsuconany other chance to attenuate on software/firmware level while preserving 0dBFS?
08:29:03Bilgusand now that you mention it the typ value is already below the vss for the mic
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08:29:48asymsuconbtw, this is the capsule - http://micbooster.com/datasheets/EM258.pdf
08:30:42Bilgusyeah I was looking at it they are pretty sparse on details
08:31:57BilgusI'm sure you could tweak the gain but w/o knowing just which input the original mic is connected to it soiunds like trial an error
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08:39:08Bilgushttps://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/blob/03dd4b92be7dcd5c8ab06da3810887060e06abd5/firmware/drivers/audio/as3514.c
08:42:48Bilgusits mic1 and the agc is 28/34/40
08:43:19Bilgushttps://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/blob/03dd4b92be7dcd5c8ab06da3810887060e06abd5/firmware/export/as3514.h#L202
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08:50:13asymsuconClip+ seems more suited for this, it's slightly thicker and there's a hole for the mic, not quite on Zip
08:52:53Bilgusyeah the zip has a tiny hole but it seems oddly placed
08:54:55Bilgusthe zip is more sensitive and seems more directional too
08:55:13Bilgussorry less directional*
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09:00:24asymsuconI don't see any hole on mine. There is something what appears to be a hole right next to the power button, but it looks like gripping point for disassembly.
09:02:38Bilgusmaybe.. but I can't see them caring about disassembly
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09:05:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:08:38asymsuconJust checked and the stock mic is not that hot, there's just a lot of handling noise from the body
09:10:39Bilguswonder if you could stuff some foam in around it
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09:40:21asymsuconIt'd be best to keep the mic partially floating
09:41:03asymsuconAs it is now, the vibrations are transferred straight from PCB
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10:03:47asymsuconsaratoga mentioned some time ago that Opus could use some optimizations - does that still apply for current build?
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14:49:07Saratoga_asymsucon: yeah it still has a lot less assembly than other formats
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20:46:55pamaurylebellium: can you look at g#1736 and tell me if I got it right?
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22:37:14[Saint]copper: markedly less now, but I'm doing it a slightly different way which involved scrapping a lot.
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23:20:50lebellium_z3cPamaury: was going out in Paris tonight. I'll test the patch tomorrow and let you know
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23:53:20__builtinasymsucon: I don't think anyone has made any changes to it recently

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