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#rockbox log for 2017-11-26

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02:36:06__builtinhmm, looks like the android port of sgt-puzzles has some interesting modifications I could draw from
02:56:07__builtintoo bad it's all based on an old upstream, so it'll take a bunch of work to merge
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05:57:06mendelmunkisWhat are the likely causes of a queue_post ovf?
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12:00:23pamaurywodz (logs): I have a problem with jz mmu, it seems that pagemask is stuck to 0, ie 4K pages. This seems wrong and does not match the documentation of the SoC. But whatever I write to pagemask doesn't seem to stick. Any idea?
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12:15:26*pamaury thinks that MIPS is a total mess
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15:18:57__builtinmendelmunkis (logs): some queue isn't being cleared fast enough
15:19:10__builtinlikely the button queue
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18:58:15_Bilgusjohnb2, If you have time could you try the patch on gerrit again, hopefully I have the delays worked out to something acceptable to the driver now
18:58:54johnb2Ok, gimme 30min.
18:59:24_Bilgusyou might need to remove the #if 0 at 793 if it still times out
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19:11:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:20:07johnb2_Bilgus : No crash anymore. With low disk speed on the <microSD1> is empty, similiar in Debug->Disk info not found. Disabling low disk speed, it seems to work.
19:20:21johnb2Now I will remove the #if
19:21:49_BilgusWell I guess thats better than chrashing
19:24:06_Bilguscrashing*, Is this running with disk slow from start-up or do you go to the menu to enable it. Ie set disk slow the restart vs set disk slow after boot
19:24:21_Bilgusthen*
19:26:53_Bilgusah I see an issue brb
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19:29:52_Bilgusok that might work a bit better
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19:30:57johnb2With the #if removed and slow disk on, I can browse the file system, but trying to loa an opus fiel it shows WPS for a fiew secs, but no tags, then back to file browser. Stuck in "Loading ...." for a mp3.
19:32:24johnb2Should I try the next commit?
19:33:15_Bilgusyeah I disabled the controller before trying to reset the card so it was stuck in whatever mode it was in a start
19:33:27_Bilgus@ start*
19:37:08_Bilgusyou probably still need to remove the #if 0
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19:49:30johnb2_Bilgus : with and without the #if <microSD1> is empty
19:51:18_Bilgustry upping the max timeout to something higher ((AS3525_PCLK_FREQ) / 1000 * 5000) 5s
19:54:11_Bilgusit seems like this sd driver is very fragile where timing is concerned I'm about to get rid of switching the timing in favor of just enabling powersave mode on the clock and just leave well enough alone
19:55:59_Bilgusmaybe its just the driver is missing some important pieces which would explain why wide bus mode doesn't work on some cards
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20:07:46johnb2_Bilgus : with of the 3 timeouts: read, write or the general?
20:08:19johnb2the last one: going from 1s to 5s?
20:09:27_Bilgusjust the last one 1s to 5s, but Don't worry about it I'm just going to slow the main clock and enable power save I'd rather waste some power than have to worry about breaking functionality
20:10:42johnb2I see, will try the 5s though.
20:12:26johnb25s didn't help either.
20:14:00_Bilgusthanks for testing
20:14:11 Join [Saint] [0] (~quassel@rockbox/staff/saint)
20:25:12johnb2Well, you bring in all the ideas, so I should thank you!
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20:42:08_Bilgusok johnb2 laste try to switch the clocks try the latest commit, it will work different if you boot with disk slow enabled versus if you set it from the menu
20:43:26_Bilgusso first try setting it from the menu if that works properly try rebooting the device with disk slow enabled if that still works remove #if 0 at line 1010
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20:56:19mendelmunkis_builtin: How can I tell which queue it is from the generated hex number?
20:57:12mendelmunkisAnd how likely is it that running rb->yield() twice as often will help?
20:57:56_Bilguswhat are you doing that your thread is blocking for so long?
20:59:52mendelmunkisInitializing two [19]x[150] arrays every cycle of pacbox
21:00
21:00:10_Bilgusand as far as the generated hex number do you mean the SP (stack pointer) or PC (program counter) addresses that the panic message gives you?
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21:04:10_Bilgusyou would need to split up the routine so you can yield more often but yes it might help
21:05:54_Bilgusbetter might be to use more memory to make another array and then memcopy it when it is ready I'm not sure what you are doing exactly but that would allow you to use the old data till you were ready
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21:09:28mendelmunkisI'm running in simulator, it crashes with queue_post ovf q=0x559c55fc5000
21:10:22mendelmunkiswhat i am trying to do is make a function that compares current location with the next turn location from a pattern
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21:16:15[Saint]Ah, you're "pacbox AI" guy, yeah?
21:16:36[Saint]I wanted to ask you if there's any particular reason why you're not just using the logic from the demo cycle.
21:17:12johnb2_Bilgus : The first two tests work. Removing #if: Turning slow disk on during playback it gets stuck in WPS. Selecting a file shows "Loading ..." for a few secs, then back to file browser. Booting with it enabled, <microSD1> is empty.
21:19:11johnb2I will be back tomorrow.
21:19:51_Bilgusjohnb2, so prior to removing #if 0 it worked fine if you set disk slow or if you booted with it already enabled but after removing #if 0 it didn't work at all?
21:20:04johnb2correct
21:20:38johnb2Should I go for a copy experiment with the first part?
21:20:39_Bilgusok thanks i'll look over it once more and probably just leave it with power save enabled and not touch the clocks
21:21:40johnb2I mean copy 1GB over?
21:22:20_Bilgusyou can but I really don't want the device to have to be rebooted to set the disk into power save
21:22:44_Bilgusaccording to the data sheet I should be able to do it on the fly
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21:30:46mendelmunkisSaint: the demo logic is designed to not beat the first level (unless you use an invincibility cheat)
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21:33:41 Quit dys (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
21:39:38[Saint]_Bilgus: what's the 'slow disk" shenanigans?
21:40:11_Bilgusadding power saving options to the sansas
21:41:24_Bilgusjohnb2 My last commit is my final try at switching the clocks of the actual drives if this doesn't work I'm just going to stick with powersave on the main clock and call it best I can do
21:41:39[Saint]This sounds like a nightmare.
21:42:16_Bilgusworks pretty well with the v2 devices I get about 40% increased runtime
21:42:30[Saint]There really seems to be far too much variance in these devices to be able to reliably switch clocks ttoo drastically.
21:44:06_Bilguswell thats where the idea came from in the first place I made a menu to allow users to turn off low voltage on the cpu
21:44:23_Bilgussince that causes a lot of crashes..
21:44:48[Saint]...buried in development settings, right, ...right? ;)
21:45:26_Bilgusnah its in system atm but that wouldn't be a bad idea
21:46:03_Bilgussince I set it up to have stable settings by default...
21:46:19 Quit mendelmunkis (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:46:45[Saint]Yeah, I mean, I know I always seem like the bad guy that growls a lot...I don't mean to be.
21:46:54johnb2_Bilgus : I will try tomorrow, got to go now.
21:47:07_Bilgusno hurry :)
21:47:10[Saint]It's just that's something that the vast majority of the userbase has no business touching.
21:47:40[Saint]Honestly, I'd prefer it if we hid the development settings full stop.
21:47:59[Saint]There's no real reason why everything but the development settings can't be in the main settings.
21:48:12[Saint]Then we could just completely hide the dev menu by default.
21:48:35_Bilgusatm all sansa v2 devices are undervolting
21:48:38[Saint](config.cfg has the logic to default enable/disable main menu items)
21:49:37_BilgusI don't know that I would just totally hide them I think I'd go with Dragons ahead
21:50:03[Saint]The way I'd prefer to handle the development settings is by kicking everything out of system into the main settings and turning the system menu into a dedicated hidden-by-default development settings menu.
21:50:18[Saint]It's no secret the vast majority of users have absolutely no business being in there.
21:50:32[Saint]I'm honestly surprised it's enabled at all and not a compile-time option.
21:51:06[Saint]I wanted to change this years and years ago but juggling the main menus around isn't really that trivial and has some follow-on effects.
21:51:49[Saint]breaking themes isn't really something to be taken too lightly.
21:51:51 Quit johnb2 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
21:51:51_BilgusI think you'd need to move info and runtime out of there if you were going to do that
21:52:16[Saint]yeah, there's no real reason why 'system' couldn't be a settings sub-menu.
21:52:32[Saint]back-in-the-day(TM) I argued strongly that it should be.
21:53:54[Saint]In my years the only thing the development menu has brought up as far as end users is questions about what x, y and z do. I honestly can't think of any legitimate reason for an end user to end up there without being specifically guided to do so.
21:54:13_BilgusI think if you were going to go that far I would use it as a time to get rid of any questionable setting and hide all advanced options on a flag
21:54:27[Saint]and in that event you could just guide users to append 'development' to the menu settings config string.
21:55:09[Saint]_Bilgus: you're absolutely not wrong. The settings are all over the place.
21:55:32[Saint]It seems like it shouldn't be difficult but it uncovers a big can of worms.
21:55:56_Bilgusshould be our motto!
21:56:01[Saint]Ha!
21:56:48[Saint]I've wanted to do this for years but the tight coupling of the theme engine to the core is a problem.
21:57:49[Saint]Weird assumptions like there being precisely 32 possible toplevel menu/icon options.
21:58:13[Saint]Why 32? Well...it was 32 for the longest time. No real reason other than that.
21:59:56_BilgusIt wouldn't be terrible to hide advanced options on a flag
22:00
22:00:26_Bilgusrather than moving them around..
22:02:51[Saint]Yeah, I guess I just was looking at it with a mind to the fact that we've already got the ability to shuffle and disable toplevel menu items.
22:03:06[Saint]Mixed with a healthy dislike for the System menu in general.
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22:15:02__wodz__pamaury: (logs) Which document are you referring to when speaking about ingenic MMU? There seems to be be XBurst1_PM.pdf which describes MMU in details but I can't google it.
22:15:48__wodz__pamaury: (logs) All code examples I know either don't use MMU at all or use default 4k pages.
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22:47:08__builtinhiding the system menu, are we?
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22:47:32[Saint]It's something I've been considering for years.
22:47:58[Saint]We never reached consensus on the last great "lets fix up and unify the menus" debate.
22:48:06__builtinpersonally I like being able to look "under the hood" of whatever I'm using
22:48:43__builtinI don't think we should try to insulate the user completely from the hardware underneath
22:49:55[Saint]Here's a little test, then.
22:49:55[Saint]Can you name a single legitimate reason for an end user to be in that menu without being explicitly guided to do so to report a requested string/state/option?
22:50:03[Saint]One. Just one.
22:50:07__builtincuriosity
22:50:38__builtinin fact, I think it was that menu that got me interested in contributing to this project in the first place
22:51:33[Saint]The only thing that an end user has any business looking at in the System menu is rockboxinfo, and there's absolutely no reason why that can't be in settings proper.
22:52:20[Saint]The debug/dev menu really shouldn't exist in my opinion. It's just a stupid question generator.
22:53:20[Saint]Well...I mean, it should exist, but I strongly disagree that it should be user facing.
22:55:17__builtinI don't think hiding it under some config option is a good idea
22:56:11__builtinmaybe just a screen guarding it with some text to the effect of Firefox's about:config warning
22:56:30[Saint]For what reason though? The by-developers-for-developers mantra only takes us so far.
22:56:51[Saint]The Settings string already blatantly says "Keep Out!), and that's stopped precisely no one.
22:57:13[Saint]At the end of the day, this is a product, and the user interface is how we represent ourselves.
22:57:18[Saint]It needs to be friendly.
22:58:33__builtinit's not causing any significant problems now, is it?
22:58:49__builtinmaybe a couple stupid questions here and there, but that's about it
22:59:43[Saint]Not in and of itself, but it begs the larger question that we've been avoiding for at least a decade now, that the entire settings structure is a poorly laid out minefield.
23:00
23:00:20[Saint]It really irked me that we never reached consensus there.
23:01:08[Saint]I'd even like to go a step further and present Rockbox by-default in "easy mode".
23:01:56[Saint]I'd wager that the majority of end users don't use half of the labrynthine menu structures that we have on offer.
23:02:55[Saint]There's no reliably way to get metrics on that though.
23:02:58[Saint]*reliable
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23:03:17__builtinyou're suggesting we "dumb it down"?
23:03:22_Bilgus*besides hiding them*
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23:05:33[Saint]I'm trying to think of what we offer that any given end user is actually likely to interact with and I'm really struggling to come up with much more than a tiny subset of the playback and sound settings.
23:06:33[Saint]A vast majority of it, at least to me, seems to be sane defaults that most people are going to be unlikely to touch.
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23:16:21[Saint]Sound settings for instance, I think could quite easily simply be volume, bass, treble, balance and channel configuration.
23:17:43[Saint]playback settings: shuffle, repeat, crossfade and replaygain
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23:24:13[Saint]At the very least I don't think there's a single sound argument for the necessity of System being a toplevel menu item.
23:24:21[Saint]We already have Settings - System
23:24:45[Saint]Errr, sorry. Settings - General Settings - System.
23:24:56[Saint]It probably should be Settings - System though.
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