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#rockbox log for 2017-12-23

00:06:43 Quit prof_wolfff (Remote host closed the connection)
00:07:45 Quit ender` (Quit: The other day Windows told me I might be a victim of software counterfeiting. Funny, I always thought I was a beneficiary.)
00:10:04 Join prof_wolfff [0] (
00:17:18 Join TheEaterOfSouls [0] (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/theeaterofsouls)
00:25:42TheEaterOfSoulsI'm doing a runtime test with the Sansa Clip Zip between flac and mp3, will post the results when It's done
00:26:08TheEaterOfSoulsIt's been 20hrs with flac so far and it's still going
00:44:07[Saint]OK, here we go. Early preview of the SBS and WPS now that playback controls work.
00:44:41[Saint]I should have album art done at some point today, and I will sort out the alignment of the playback controls a bit better.
00:45:42[Saint]The screen displayed is 480x800, but the exact same theme can load in as little as 180x200
00:45:51[Saint]or, arbitrarily large.
00:46:55[Saint]This afternoon I will also add "next track" metadata in the overflow pan so that there isn't a giant slab of whitespace in the instances where we have ample room to display these fields.
00:47:36[Saint]We'll just have to live with the potential of lines getting cut off if the screen designates that we can't draw the metadata viewport full height.
00:48:54[Saint]I also intend to display a "mini player" in the .sbs when we are playing or recording so that basic playback control is accessible in any list screen or plugin that uses the .sbs
00:49:44[Saint]Total skin engine RAM usage is just over 2.1MiB
00:50:02[Saint](with a 32pt font)
00:50:36[Saint]...just over 2.4MiB with a 96pt font
00:51:20[Saint]So every colour target with a screen ~180x200px or higher can utilize this theme.
00:51:40TheEaterOfSoulsStupid question, but with no extra fonts installed what's the default one?
00:52:38[Saint]It's not a stupid question. The fallback font is compiled into the main binary.
00:52:49[Saint]Precisely so that the user can never have _no_ font installed.
00:53:39TheEaterOfSoulsWell I have no vision, is there any way I could get the memory usage of the skin and such even lower?
00:54:18TheEaterOfSoulsA little more room for the buffer, might save a tiny amount of power lol
00:54:52[Saint]Not with that route. The fallback font is absolutely tiny. It's a 6pt bitmap font of which we only ever load 200 glyphs of at a time.
00:54:55[Saint]a few bytes.
00:55:42[Saint]It's really not worth the effort of compiling in another font as the fallback. the one that exists is already the bare minimum by design.
00:56:00 Quit _meg (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:31TheEaterOfSoulsOkay, good to know
00:56:59 Join _meg [0] (~notsure@
00:57:31[Saint]What have you tried doing already? I would think the most brutal way to go about tackling the theme engine RAM usage would be to load an .sbs that does literally nothing but define the UI viewport window for lists to be drawn in, and a .wps that loads literally nothing.
00:57:55[Saint]have the config load the fallback font and disable icons
00:58:55[Saint]Are you familiar enough with the skin engine to achieve this?
00:58:59TheEaterOfSoulsI haven't messed with it too much tbh
00:59:04TheEaterOfSoulsNo, not really
00:59:18TheEaterOfSoulsI'll figure it out one of these days though
01:00:03TheEaterOfSoulsOnly "tweak" I've really made is to set the LCD brightness to 0, which I'm told blanks the screen
01:01:46[Saint]That will have a net effect on battery usage but the theme engine is still going to load a theme and a backdrop regardless of the screen brightness setting.
01:02:06[Saint]It doesn't have an effect on skin RAM usage or available playback buffer.
01:02:14TheEaterOfSoulsI know
01:02:25TheEaterOfSoulsI'll read up on it
01:02:31TheEaterOfSoulsTonight, maybe
01:02:41TheEaterOfSoulsGot some things to do first though
01:02:55TheEaterOfSoulsAnd yay procrastination
01:04:09[Saint]Your .wps could be extremely simple.
01:04:11[Saint]basically just:
01:05:24[Saint]Disable the built in status bar, and draw a fullscreen list viewport.
01:05:32[Saint](with the fallback font)
01:06:04TheEaterOfSoulsI'm reading the wiki now actually
01:06:26[Saint]Ah, sorry, if you want it to be loaded by default without having to specify a label you'd use - again.
01:06:41[Saint]so %Vi(-,-,-,-,-,0)
01:07:06TheEaterOfSoulsThat's it? Just the one line?
01:07:35[Saint]You could also add %wd as the first line to disable the builtin status bar.
01:08:20[Saint]the .wps /should/ be able to be literally blank.
01:08:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:08:46TheEaterOfSoulsAwesome, thanks
01:08:52[Saint]But if it doesn't like that you could always just add a single period or blank space.
01:09:36[Saint]not loading a backdrop or a userfont or any other skin assets should save you about 500Kb
01:09:50TheEaterOfSoulsI will test on another Clip and see if the buffer size expands
01:10:39[Saint]You probably have already but you can turn off displaying icons in the settings as well.
01:10:50TheEaterOfSoulsNot a lot for lossless, but's more RAM I can use lol
01:11:05TheEaterOfSoulsYeah, did that
01:13:52 Quit michaelni (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:14:13[Saint]If it was a colour target with a larger display the savings would be much more pronounced.
01:14:57[Saint]loading the bare minimum .sbs and .wps and only using the fallback font with no icons is about as much as you can realistically care out of the theme engine.
01:16:01[Saint]I would think that's going to end up at around 500~600Kb on the clips.
01:17:03TheEaterOfSoulsYeah, buffer size is now 4.02MB, was previously 3.something
01:17:10TheEaterOfSoulsCool, thanks
01:18:48[Saint]Not a problem. Always happy to help out where I can, if I can.
01:19:10[Saint]And the theme engine is one of the very few areas I can "specialise" in.
01:21:57[Saint]Though I have to say this is the first time I have ever helped someone disable as much of it as humanly possible.
01:22:08[Saint]I usually do the exact opposite of that. :)
01:22:49[Saint]Anyway, if you're happy, I am.
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01:48:03TheEaterOfSoulsThe memory in rockbox-info.txt is measured in MB, correct?
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02:28:13 Join TheEaterOfSouls [0] (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/theeaterofsouls)
02:31:10TheEaterOfSouls22hrs with flac
02:31:37TheEaterOfSoulsNot sure about minutes because I don't know when exactly it died
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02:47:45saratogait is much easier to test battery life using the battery bench plugin, since that logs the battery life and the runtime to disk
02:54:47TheEaterOfSoulsI would've used that, but doesn't the power usage of writing to flash that much add up?
02:56:27saratogano, it won't use any measureable power
02:56:51saratogait was originally designed for hard disk players, where writing to disk was orders of magnitude more expensive
03:05:30TheEaterOfSoulsAh, cool
03:06:34TheEaterOfSoulsMy whole idea was to see if I'd get any measurable improvement in battery life if I used mp3 so I was planning to do that next, but honestly 22 hours is plenty so I think I'll just be dome with it
03:08:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:11:17saratogaflac is a little faster to decode, mp3 is a little faster to load from flash, just depends on which uses more power on your device
03:14:11TheEaterOfSoulsThat's what I was trying to determine, whether flash or the CPU was more power-intensive
03:14:45TheEaterOfSoulsBut with 22 hours it seems kind of irrelevant
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12:12:28[Saint]*improvement* in battery life from using mp3?
12:12:34[Saint]howabout no.
12:13:50[Saint]I guess it's not necessarily obvious to people that flac is an incredibly 'cheap' codec.
12:14:42[Saint]in a flash based player the extra reads and writes from flac wouldn't add up to a hell of a lot.
12:15:29[Saint]the extra CPU work from mp3 would be measurable though.
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13:20:29[Saint]the minimal width in the absolute worst possible case with the largest supported font is ~520px
13:20:38[Saint]the height is also approximately so.
13:22:09[Saint]so I guess basically you'll just adjust the font between one of the supported glyph sizes until things look about right.
13:23:44[Saint]personally I think it looks a bit cooler having the icons one size smaller than the font, so I've been doing that.
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13:34:41[Saint]I feel like a dirty dirty whore.
13:35:35[Saint]In some declarations I'm mixing positive absolute values, negative absolute values, undefined values, and percentiles in the same object.
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15:49:42[Saint]I really love that I can align an asset at 71.4%x
15:50:08[Saint]in related news, I've fixed up the spacing of the assets in the control panel.
15:50:39[Saint]they're now offset by a percentile instead of fixed value.
15:51:09[Saint]so they should align themselves proportionate to the display width and height.
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23:29:24__builtinwell, my port of duke is pretty much functional at this point
23:30:10__builtinI'm thinking about trying to merge it; what do you all think?
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23:53:57 Quit ender` (Quit: I will instruct my Legions of Terror to attack the hero en masse, instead of standing around waiting while members break off and attack one or two at a time. — Evil Overlord List #75)

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