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#rockbox log for 2019-10-28

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03:21:56__builtinis there any interest in getting a 3.15 release done?
03:22:37__builtinI ask because there's still a bunch of users on 3.14 (which is nearly 2 1/2 years old now)
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03:30:40 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
03:44:30Bilgusthere are some pretty big bug fixes that would be good to have in a new release
03:45:36BilgusI think getting the ipod working with iflash and the bootloader deserve it as well
03:45:42__builtinyeah, I'd like to push the 6G to stable
03:46:04__builtiniflash working is... unlikely within the next month
03:46:27Bilgushow about by the end of the year
03:46:52Bilgusthat seems like a good target 1/15/19
03:47:06__builtinno deadlines :P
03:47:35BilgusI sed target no deadline lol
03:48:17__builtinmaybe 11/15 instead?
03:48:26__builtinfor a release
03:48:37Bilgusthats two weeks?
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03:48:46__builtinfixing iflash is unlikely to be an instantaneous process
03:49:16Bilgusso bootloader then and save iFlash for later?
03:49:22__builtinit won't take all that much work to do a release, if we leave out the hard parts, yes :)
03:50:35BilgusI think I'd like to finalize the multiboot stuff for that release and a few lua things, Ive also some reworked icons from another user that should be put in
03:51:17__builtinsure, sounds good
03:51:29Bilgusbut sure whats it hurt, I'd wait to hear from speachy I'm not sure where he is in his work
03:51:49Bilgusnot that it will hurt it but he might have a few things left
03:52:10__builtinif we botch it we can always redo it as 3.15.1 :)
03:52:33*__builtin really would like to see *slightly* more frequent releases
03:53:39__builtinat this point we can't put the same manpower into each release as we used to, so the quality of each "release" won't be that much different from a development build, I suppose
03:53:44Bilgusoff the top of my head theres an opus fix, shortcut fix, bunch of overflow fixes, some fixes to the buffer lib thats just what I committed so I'll try and update the recent changes page to make it a bit easier to list the notable
03:54:24BilgusI think we'd need far more beta testers to do frequent releases justice
03:54:46__builtinI think regular releases would 1) keep more users semi-up-to-date 2) give signs of life from the project as a whole
03:55:26Bilgusshoot for yearly major and monthly or bi monthly regular maybe
03:55:50__builtinyearly major? as in 3.x->4.x->...?
03:56:12BilgusI'd like it to be 3.20 in 2020 3.21 in 2021
03:56:39__builtinthat would mess up the whole sequential numbering we've got going, wouldn't it?
03:56:55__builtin(unless we do 5 releases in the next two months, of course)
03:57:02Bilgusdepends how many releases we have
03:57:18Bilgusor shoot for unity in 2021 lol
03:57:28__builtinhow about we just keep the sequential numbering?
03:58:07__builtinwe can bump minor versions just as before, and save the 3.x->4.x jump for when we gut HWCODEC completely
03:58:13Bilgussuppose, I just figured itd give a target
03:58:33BilgusI think 3.15 should have no HWCodec
03:58:50__builtinit was agreed when we did 3.14 that 4.0 would mark HWCODEC removal
03:59:16Bilgusok so do 3.15 and then 4.0 at the beginning of year
03:59:41Bilgusit'll be 3.15 without HWcodec
03:59:54__builtinyou mean 4.0 will be?
03:59:58Bilgusplus anything we really screwed up
04:00:36Bilgusyes do 3.15 in NOV and 4.0 1/1/20 ish
04:01:13__builtinsounds like a reasonable plan to me
04:01:25__builtincontingent, of course, on someone gutting HWCODEC
04:01:37__builtinby the way, did we reach a consensus on how that would be done?
04:02:08Bilguswell if we leave 3.15 as the hwcodec then save the branch
04:02:41__builtinand then just automatically delete all the #ifdef HWCODEC blocks?
04:02:45Bilgusand we just remove all the conditionalys at first then slowly remove everything else till we get all traces out
04:03:09BilgusI don't know that automatic is the best idea
04:03:40__builtinwe can figure that when 4.0 rolls around
04:03:54Bilgusit needs to be inspected and probably a little bit of unit testing in the relevant modules
04:04:32__builtinso what else needs to be done before 3.15?
04:05:33Bilgusit could go now I think it seems pretty stable,
04:06:32__builtinwe need to merge the rbutil bootloader installer, and flesh out the manual
04:06:33BilgusI want the multiboot to work OutOfBox so I'll just do the drive swapping thing
04:06:48Bilgusmanual for agptek
04:07:08BilgusI wonder what the status of the fiio? is
04:07:10__builtinPatches for both of the above are in gerrit and I can polish them up
04:08:07BilgusFiiO mk3 would be a nice addition but that person has been releasing them off a personal site so I'm not sure the true state of that
04:08:37Bilgusif not in a ready place it could wait till another release
04:08:47__builtinhave we contacted them and asked about merging? (sorry, out of the loop)
04:10:31Bilgusfigure rocker and fiio & something else 'name eluding me' are the only in production devices
04:10:48BilgusI think it was asked but was a long while ago
04:11:06Bilgusand it was something like 'eventually' but I'll ask
04:11:15__builtinin that case there's no hurry
04:11:20__builtinwe can put it off til next release
04:17:00BilgusI went ahead and asked
04:17:22Bilguswhat do you see needing done before a release?
04:17:45__builtindo we want to put out release candidates?
04:18:06*__builtin isn't sure about the logistics of that... I remember the build server having a RC build option
04:18:20__builtin(but I have no idea how to use it, or even what exactly it does)
04:18:50Bilguswell then don't we freeze everything to bug fixes only?
04:19:22Bilgusand again no beta testers
04:19:53__builtinThat's valid. In that case, RC builds are pointless, I suppose
04:20:33BilgusI'd just pop it as 3.15 anything major could be 3.16 and then then 4.0
04:21:14BilgusI really don't think theres anything big thats going to pop out but I suppose thats why there are bugs in the first place
04:21:37__builtin"if someone complains, we'll fix it"
04:21:54Bilguswe'll think about fixing it..
04:22:50*__builtin has to refresh himself on the logistics of getting a release out
04:23:27BilgusI'm not sure where speachy is in his quest for voices in plugins but I do think thats a pretty important thing for the non seeing folks
04:24:08__builtinhe merged that, no?
04:24:10Bilguswould surly be a good 'selling?' point
04:24:42BilgusI was saying to mention prominently in the release notes
04:25:01Bilgussurely even*
04:25:44__builtinit's only enabled in a handful of plugins, though
04:26:01Bilgusah I thought it was across them
04:26:17__builtinhmm, where do we keep the central target status classifications? (i.e. stable/unstable)
04:26:52__builtinI've dug deep into the site's sources but it's referring to a file that I don't have access to
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04:29:53Bilgusother than the 9targetstat page?
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04:31:12__builtinwhich page?
04:32:25Bilgusthe wiki one
04:32:52Bilgusor do you mean the list on the index page?
04:34:04__builtinI'm trying to get rbutil to mark the ipod6g as stable in its targets page
04:34:11__builtincurrently it's "unknown"
04:34:14Bilgussansa fuze+ should be stable too
04:35:02__builtinah, it's in tools/
04:35:20__builtinthat goes through a bunch of layers to eventually end up in rbutil's page
04:37:06__builtinthe file that rbutil looks at is
04:37:29__builtinthat file is (probably) manually copied from somewhere by one of the swedes
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04:44:44Bilguswhats the difference between .release and
04:45:03Bilgusit looks to be updated by the build system??
04:45:35__builtin.release is manually copied, I think
04:46:03__builtinbuild-info is automatically generated: see www/buildserver/hooks/
04:46:38Bilgusit'd have to be
04:52:47__builtinit's completely manual, I'm guessing
04:52:58__builtinor at least it wasn't done automatically in the last release
04:53:28__builtinthe fuze+ was promoted to stable in 2016, but it was still marked unstable when 3.14 was released in 2017
04:56:35Bilguslets try something
05:06:44Bilgushmm i think its probably this one wonder why there are so many copies
05:08:01__builtinthat file is produced (indirectly) from tools/
05:11:22fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision f72b908, 280 builds, 11 clients.
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05:26:46__builtinalright, 6g is stable
05:34:41fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 1398 seconds.
05:34:43fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision f72b908 result: 0 errors 1 warnings
05:38:51__builtinBilgus: do you think we should do a feature freeze?
05:39:23Bilgustill when and to what end?
05:39:49__builtinI don't know. That's why I asked you ;)
05:40:22__builtinI personally don't see a point in it, since, realistically, we probably aren't going to fix anything between now and Nov 15
05:40:52BilgusI really can't see a point how much is going to come in from what 4 devs in the next two weeks?
05:41:02__builtinso... no?
05:41:18Bilgussounds like added headache
06:06:13__builtinwe'll have to release rbutil too
06:07:06__builtinthe ipod6g bootloader won't be in 1.4.0
06:18:13__builtinbluebrother: I just merged rbutil ipod6g bootloader support
06:31:24mendelmunkisI just woke up and am reading the backlog. I have a few things I'm working on when I get time. I'm assuming you want landscape put on hold until after 3.15 but pacbox autoplay fixes are fine?
06:32:07mendelmunkisAlso Is there anywhere in particular I can put my limited skills to helping prepare for release?
06:32:23mendelmunkis*to work to help
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06:58:45__builtinFeel free to work on whatever you like, as usual
06:58:57__builtinwe probably won't merge anything "big" til after the release, though
07:00:46__builtinas far as things to do, figuring out how to release Rockbox Utility would be nice, since we'll need that to be in place before the release
07:01:33__builtinPolishing up the ReleaseNotes315 page would be helpful as well
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10:36:23johnb4Bilgus : Are you aware of any caveat if I want to compile the Multiboot bootloader (g#1556 g#1613) for Sandisk Sansa e200 v2? Size restrictions?
10:36:27fs-bluebotGerrit review #1556 at : Allow mounting of any directory as the root directory. by William Wilgus
10:36:27fs-bluebotGerrit review #1613 at : Multiboot Firmware Root Redirect - Do Not Commit by William Wilgus
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10:52:29zagor[m]FYI I am looking into moving to
10:54:18zagor[m]we haven't maintained it properly for years and only look at it when some spider causes the server to strain due to the wiki
10:55:11zagor[m]a move would mean less custom hacks on the website, but far more control for the people actually working on things today
10:56:57zagor[m]this has been discussed and debated many times, and nobody every steps up to run the site. it's way more stuff than most people realize. way more than the project needs anymore.
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11:11:35user890104zagor[m]: I wrote in the mailing list, that I can provide free hosting on my dedicated server in OVH
11:12:12user890104moving to a Git hosting seems like the way to go, it's just that since github is owned by microsoft, some open source projects moved away from it
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11:12:27zagor[m]everyone says that, before looking into what it entails. :)
11:12:43zagor[m](the "I can host it")
11:14:01zagor[m]and we've discussed "github is evil" so many times. long before MS bought them.
11:14:20zagor[m]talk is cheap. my time is limited. the site is rotting.
11:16:31zagor[m]my aim is to move rockbox off of our server so the project doesn't die completely if (when) our ancient box does.
11:19:32zagor[m]github has git including pull request management, bug tracking, web pages, wiki and release handling. anyones personal server has none of that. and properly maintaining the systems needed for it is far more work and far less fun than most people think.
11:20:12zagor[m]not to mention we'd still be stuck relying on individual efforts
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12:32:41johnb4Bilgus : I compiled and tried to patch the firmware: the size is too large
12:33:41johnb4Would you have any hint how to cut down on the bootloader size?
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12:53:29mendelmunkiszagor[m]: Not that I think it counts for much but I personally like gerrit over github.
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14:57:01zagor[m]__builtin: which git hash do you want to build?
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14:57:17__builtinHEAD, I guess :)
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15:01:53fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision f72b908, 281 builds, 12 clients.
15:02:05zagor[m]build started
15:02:53Strife89What about the build server and clients? I don't imagine that those can be moved to any big-name service.
15:03:17Strife89(Speaking of, I need to re-add my desktop as a build client.)
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15:10:45zagor[m]some of it might be offloaded to travis-ci. but I don't have all the details worked out.
15:12:35gevaertsMaybe it will still need some sort of server, but that's going to be a lot lighter on resources than forums, wikis, and gerrits
15:12:59zagor[m]also, sub-10 minute builds are perhaps not the top priority anymore :)
15:13:43Strife89I noticed a lot of 20+ minute rounds on the build table. :/
15:13:53gevaertsOf course they are! Sub-10 second or don't bother! :)
15:14:57zagor[m]Strife89: what is the world coming to, eh?
15:16:32fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 880 seconds.
15:16:33fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision f72b908 result: All green
15:17:38Strife89Well, at least that one was faster than 20m :)
15:19:01gevaertsIt looks like it's just confused :)
15:19:37zagor[m]maybe it has forgotten how to build a release
15:20:05gevaertsWell, it's been a while
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15:28:48zagor[m]some bits are confused, but rbutil now has release candidates
15:29:08Bilgusjohnb4 I had the same issue, I removed the e200 because I couldn't free enough to get it built
15:31:13Bilgusare there things that could be done probably; perhaps really cut down printf and remove the logo would probably be enough
15:31:30BilgusI just didn't want to do that to a release bootloader
15:55:28Bilguswhy is the buildpage still showing f72b908 as building?
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16:39:03zagor[m]dunno. it got confused.
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17:47:02underwater25Hi all, my sansa clip+ died completely
17:48:45underwater25Device is not bricked as I can connect to PC in both original firmware and rockbox and see proper folder structure and even play mp3. Also by accident recorded my conversation.
17:48:54underwater25Any help?
17:49:35underwater25PCB is 54-50-00825, TEMPO REV21
18:00:10Bilgusexplain died completely?
18:03:30underwater25Screen is just dark. On the sun at some angle I can see like a black line
18:04:23underwater25Amazingly, it came back for a 5 seconds once, I could choose language and then died again
18:05:15Bilgusand this occurs in both rockbox and the Original Sansa firmware so that probably means the backlight driver has gone bad
18:05:43Bilgusset up voices on the player and use it blind.
18:07:07underwater25It died in rockbox, then I booted up for 5 sec in original firmware
18:07:45underwater25Also then connecting to PC in rockbox folder structure is different vs original
18:08:33underwater25BTW battery voltage is 4.082V, so is almost fully charged
18:09:03Bilgusok? but still the screen is still dead in the OF (the sansa Original Firmware)
18:09:06underwater25Thanks, will try with voice setup
18:09:22Bilgustherefore it is a hardware issue
18:09:23underwater25Yep screen is dead in both case
18:10:05BilgusI wouldn't try to replace the screen you are better off just using it as the internals are VERY delicate
18:10:16underwater25Do you think disconnecting battery worth a try?
18:11:09underwater25Internal looks fine :) I mean I could manage to solder new screen
18:11:24johnb4underwater25 : I can give you a zip file with "blind setup"
18:11:36johnb4various talk files etc.
18:11:45Bilgusif anything it could be a bad connection but I'm telling you you are better off sealing with it through voice menus because the most likely result if you open it is a totally broken player
18:12:14johnb4I have 2 clip+ with dead screens ;-)
18:12:54underwater25Jonhb4, please share your zip with blind setup
18:13:43underwater25Bilgus, I have already opened it :)
18:14:23Bilgusclose it :) it'll end in nothing but heartache lol
18:17:36underwater25Cha maybe not :)
18:18:57underwater25Take a look at the screen
18:19:12underwater25Johnb4, thanks a lot
18:19:41johnb4Copy that to the root of your player. I noticed that this build is rather old (is a backup from my PC). On the players I had installed Bilgus'multiboot bootloader and run RB only from the SD card (here I can give you a newer build).
18:21:28underwater25OK will do so
18:21:38Bilgusthe only thing you can really do there us try to wiggle the ribbon maybe clean the connector
18:21:40underwater25PCB backside
18:25:05Bilgus90% isopropyl with the player off and or battery disconnected and take care not to get it in the screen as it will wick between the layers
18:25:59BilgusI don't remember if the clip+ has a removable ribbon cable if it does then thats probably the bad connection
18:26:09underwater25Yep will use IPA
18:26:19underwater25Not it does not have removable
18:26:30Bilgusif not then maybe some hotair to reform the solder DON'T use a soldering iron
18:27:07Bilgusyeah you are really just asking for trouble....
18:27:23underwater25I have gas soldering iron, but it is tricky with distance and temperature
18:27:59underwater25Here is cable close up
18:29:09Bilgusit looks like you already attempted it and destroyed the ribbon cable
18:30:01underwater25No way, it is factory made
18:30:25Bilgusmaybe you could find a donor player with bad flash on ebay
18:30:47Bilgusthen perhaps moisture ate away at the ribbon
18:31:23underwater25Maybe, but with postage and etc... I can get one for 25 euro on Amazon
18:31:32Bilgusor just weird reflection but it looks like one of those traces are slipt around the via
18:32:27Bilgusif you do ribbon soldering kapton tape and aluminum foil
18:32:46Bilgusassuming its not a bad driver chip
18:33:19BilgusI'd just use it with voice prompts
18:35:21underwater25Take a look at pins close up
18:35:47underwater25Yep voice prompts looks like solution
18:36:36underwater25Any idea about voltages at the pins?
18:37:40BilgusI had a datasheet on the lcd at one point but its been sdeveral years ago that I had a clip+ open
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18:39:00Bilgusthe pins look to have some junk around them but TBH its hard to tell without having it in hand with a good maginifying glass
18:39:33Bilgusthe ribbon looks crazed too and thats odd are you the first owner of this clip+?
18:40:07Bilgusnone of mine looked this dirty inside
18:40:34underwater25It looks like flux, a lot
18:40:54underwater25Yep, I'm the first owner of this clip+
18:46:57Bilgusnope sorry the only datasheet I have for the lcd is for the clipzip
18:48:34underwater25OK thanks anyway
18:49:02Bilgusthe clip+ is a OLED 64 x128 so you might have some luck finding one similar enough to figure it out they all have a yellow band at the top
18:49:40Bilgusone revision had a blank space and another it was solid but I think they were still the same connection wise
18:50:28underwater25Just cleaned, ribbon still has some dark pattern
18:50:46underwater25Take a look
18:51:49Bilguslooks a lot better though I don't think you could really test the ribbon non destructively though
18:54:04underwater25What is your opinion about this black line on LCD?
18:54:34BilgusOLED isn't like LCD where you still get a ghosted image so maybe the HV driver is out?
18:55:14Bilgusit could be a ground issue or even something with the player but I imagine you'd get away with replacing the screen
18:55:45Bilgusjust be sure to protect the ribbon cable with kapton and alu foil
18:56:31underwater25OK thanks, I will try voice prompts to see how they work
18:56:43BilgusI would not use anything but hotair on the board
18:57:12underwater25I doubt I have any more interest and time to dig any deeper
19:02:59pixelmaisn't the "black line" just a separator between the yellow and the cyan part of the screen?
19:03:41pixelma(I admit that I haven't read the backlog very thoroughly yet, so maybe I missed something there)
19:05:27Bilgusit could be on the earlier revisions they do have a literal black line there
19:06:26Bilgusit looks a little low though but it might just be the angle
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19:35:09underwater25Indeed it looks like black separator line as in this image
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19:57:08__builtinzagor[m]: thanks for building
19:57:20__builtinrbutil seems to pick up the new builds
19:57:43 Quit underwater25 (Remote host closed the connection)
19:58:39__builtinone thing - I recently pushed a commit to autobuild the ipod classic bootloader, but it's not showing up in the builds table
20:00:18__builtindoes that take some action on your part?
20:01:17__builtinhmm, it seems to have triggered:
20:01:28__builtinjust not reflected in the builds yet
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20:34:56 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
20:38:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:40:17__builtinzagor[m]: also, could you resync the www site?
20:40:21__builtin(stupid typo)
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21:04:01 Quit johnb4 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:06:34__builtinbluebrother: could you release rbutil in HEAD as 1.4.1?
21:13:28__builtingevaerts: and could you add me to the Release Committers group?
21:14:41gevaerts__builtin: sure, with which of your four accounts? :)
21:14:51*gevaerts likes these gerrit issues!
21:16:31 Quit Frans-Willem_ (Quit: - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
21:18:33__builtinuh, good question
21:18:56__builtinusername "franklin"
21:18:59__builtinID 1000539
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21:20:22gevaertsI can only see name and email address on that screen
21:21:04gevaertsOK, done!
21:21:55*__builtin is trying to cross-compile RockboxUtility
21:25:39__builtincross-compile, rather
21:41:13__builtinour documentation on stable/unstable/unusable is terribly out of date...
21:44:44 Quit Rower- (Quit: Hmmm...)
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21:50:01bluebrother__builtin: what do you want to cross compiler for? Building Windows binaries on Linux works pretty well using mxe. Or at least it did in the past, haven't tried that in a while :)
21:50:33bluebrotherI need to check my build setup before I can create a new release. Plus, I'm considering to give up on static builds and switch to Qt5.
21:51:19bluebrotherAnd for OS X we should drop 10.4 support IMO −− new OS X doesn't support 32bit binaries anymore, so that would be an issue. But I guess 10.4 isn't really used anymore, so we could drop that (thus also drop ppc support)
21:53:39bluebrotherhmm. Was that cryptopp issue solved for Windows?
21:56:29bluebrother__builtin: ipod6g is still disabled in Rockbox Utility. Intentional?
22:10:11 Quit Ruhan (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
22:12:33 Join Rower- [0] (~husvagn@
22:14:20bluebrother__builtin: seems I need to check if the rbutil deploy stuff is still working. Will spend some time on that tomorrow.
22:16:03 Quit Rower (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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22:17:55 Quit lagfra (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:25:40__builtin bluebrother: no, unintentional
22:25:49__builtinI'll fix that in master
22:29:14bluebrotheranyway, I'm off for today. I'll check things tomorrow to see if there's something else missing.
22:30:28bluebrotherbtw, does the ipod6g have a mountpoint before the bootloader is installed?
22:32:00 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
22:32:11w1d3m0d3bluebrother: I personally think moving to qt5 is a good idea
22:32:34w1d3m0d3I'm not familiar enough with the rockbox utility codebase but I did try it out with qt5, successfully
22:32:35fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision d1fda5e, 281 builds, 12 clients.
22:33:02__builtinbluebrother: I don't think so (it's in DFU mode)
22:33:36__builtinI'll go ahead and bump the version to 1.4.1 so you can just build off HEAD
22:36:00bluebrotherlet me check all those dependencies first.
22:36:17bluebrotherI remember an issue with cryptopp on non-Linux.
22:37:34bluebrotherI can also try to update the german translation ...
22:38:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:47:01fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 866 seconds.
22:47:02fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision d1fda5e result: All green
22:47:03fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 06a26ab, 281 builds, 10 clients.
23:02:34fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 933 seconds.
23:02:35fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 06a26ab result: All green
23:07:43Strife89I should add my Mac Mini and leave it running on the work Internet. Any difference to setting up compared to on Linux?
23:09:40Strife89Other than (I assume) brew install $DEPENDENCIES ?
23:20:02__builtingevaerts: uh... can I delete remote tags?
23:20:03 Quit vmx (Remote host closed the connection)
23:20:20__builtinI pushed a duplicate rbutil_v1.4.1 tag (should be rbutil_1.4.1 without the v)
23:21:04 Quit petur (Remote host closed the connection)
23:22:14__builtin"You need 'Push' rights with the 'Force Push' flag to delete references"
23:32:51*gevaerts checks
23:34:50gevaerts__builtin: I've given release committers force push access to that specific tag
23:34:55gevaertsSo try now
23:35:01__builtinGood idea :)
23:35:18*gevaerts wants to be as specific as possible here to avoid accidents :)
23:36:56__builtinWorked, thanks!
23:37:33gevaertsGreat! I'll remove that permission again
23:38:55*gevaerts hopes __builtin won't need much more help today, as it's nearly bedtime :)
23:40:04__builtineverything's in place now... we just need a rbutil release and wait and see if a showstopper bug shows up

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