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#rockbox log for 2020-03-30

00:00:59Nugettesas in even if I had rockbox installed and also the apple firmware it would still be limited?
00:07:42_Bilgusnot in rb but being that there is a file transfer bug on Rockbox and iFlash adapters i'm not sure how that all works out
00:07:58_Bilgusyou'd need an iPod expert
00:08:14NugettesRight
00:08:16_Bilgusmaybe __builtin
00:08:39_BilgusI know he has an iPod
00:09:17Nugetteshmmm ok
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00:44:58NugettesThanks for the info!
00:48:44Nugettes__builtin Hi If I have apple installed also with rockbox and I switch between firmware would it be the same storage or would it change depending on what firmware you have?
00:48:59__builtinNugettes: what do you mean, exactly?
00:49:11__builtinthe hard disk is shared between the two, if that's what you're asking
00:50:00Nugettesas in is will the apple firmware limit to 128gb if you switvh from rockbox to apple?
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00:50:45Nugetteseven if you had both firmware installed..
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00:54:57__builtinrockbox won't effect the OF's behavior in things like that
00:55:29Nugetteswhat about apple?
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01:01:23__builtinthe OF affecting rockbox?
01:01:39Nugettesyea
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01:05:18__builtinalso shouldn't happen
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01:18:21NugettesWill accidentally pressing a specific button when on rockbox cause me to go into the apple firmware? For example ressetting the ipod if its frozen?
01:26:29__builtinholding MENU+SELECT for long enough will trigger a reset
01:27:28Nugettesbut will this also switch it to the apple firmware when on rockbox?
01:31:48__builtinthe bootloader allows you to pick
01:32:01__builtinholding MENU will boot OF, holding PLAY will boot rockbox
01:33:57NugettesAh oka ythank you!
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02:44:08speachyI'm going to have a new gcc4.9.4 toolchain soonish, and that means some new test builds to try out
02:55:50speachy__builtin, can you trigger an update on the www site? I pushed a gcc into the www repo.
03:00
03:05:14__builtinI can't do that
03:05:55__builtincurrently only the swedes can
03:06:05speachydrat.
03:06:17__builtinbut once you finish the migration then you won't have to ask! :)
03:07:20speachystill working out the other kinks in the new tool build. Bumping the dependencies to newer versions, and adding in isl, which can improve optimization.
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03:08:30__builtinisl?
03:09:21speachyInteger Set Library
03:10:10__builtinah
03:10:11speachyif it's there, gcc will use it to improve loop optimizations.
03:10:59speachyI think it's one of those thigns they pulled into a standalone library for others to use.
03:12:27speachystarting with GCC 4.5 basically
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04:43:01speachyfinished rebuilding ipod6g, mini2g, and clipplus. Will regen h120 as soon as the m68k toolchain finishes rebuilding.
04:45:21speachyhttp://www.shaftnet.org/~pizza/rockbox-clipplus-gcc494.zip
04:45:32speachyhttp://www.shaftnet.org/~pizza/rockbox-ipodmini2g-gcc494.zip
04:45:38speachyhttp://www.shaftnet.org/~pizza/rockbox-ipod6g-gcc494.zip
04:46:15speachyhttp://www.shaftnet.org/~pizza/rockbox-h120-gcc494.zip
04:47:04speachyrbversion is 077d559b1d-200330 for all of those, in case there's a question of which build you're running
04:47:12__builtinwhat's new in these?
04:48:11speachytoolchains have updated libraries, and the arm has the still-relevant parts of multilib+exception patches ported forward.
04:48:38speachyso this might fix the total hang on the arm7tdmi targets (eg mini2g)
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04:49:31speachynot sure if it will matter for the ipod6g and the other modern(ish) arm targets.
04:52:59speachyoh, all are built with -Os too, as that's what I had in my configure script at the time.
04:56:09speachyI pushed my current rockboxdev script to gerrit, but the arm toolchain needs a patch that's not synced with the www site yet.
05:00
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06:38:03__builtinspeachy: I think that patch uncovered some more undefined behavior in quake
06:38:16__builtinnow the player always moves forward, no matter what keys are pressed...
06:38:40__builtinprobably some hairy code somewhere that this newer GCC no longer plays nice with
06:38:49*__builtin will investigate later, sleep now!
06:40:50__builtinI saw this occasionally when initially porting it but wrote it off as sticky buttons
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15:50:31speachyhmm, looks like inline asm is what's giving the 4.9.4 build fits on sh targets.
15:52:08cockroachI'm a bit puzzled: I have this ipod video with 2048-byte sectors. If I use the sd card that I formatted with iTunes and then converted to Rockbox, it announces itself as having 2048 byte sectors (via USB). If, however, I use an SD card that I formatted myself, it claims to use 512 bytes per sector.
15:52:37cockroachDoes anyone happen to know how the ipod decides which size to report?
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15:56:26speachyit's a FAT (ie filesystem) attribute..?
15:57:26speachylook at mkfs.fat -S
15:59:12cockroachI don't think it's the file system, fdisk reports the wrong sector size for the whole disk
15:59:40cockroachplus I'm reasonably sure I used -S 2048
15:59:49cockroach(not 100% though, just about 97%)
16:00
16:00:04speachythere's also the partition table
16:00:10speachyfdisk -b
16:01:37cockroachwell the fun thing is, if I put them in my SD card reader, both cards report 512 byte sectors.
16:01:49cockroachso I *think* the partition tables are identical.
16:02:16cockroachit just seems that, for some reason, the ipod uses them differently.
16:02:18speachythe unnderlying hardware (ie sd card) uses 512 byte sectors
16:02:27cockroachaye
16:02:40speachybut the logical sector size (for partitions and filesytems) is indepedent of that
16:03:30cockroachand where is that stored?
16:03:58speachywhat does fdisk show?
16:04:22speachy(ie 'fdisk /dev/sdX' then hit 'p')
16:05:26cockroach*sigh*, for some reason the card is read-only now, fdisk doesn't like that. hold onl
16:05:52cockroachheh, silly me, must have moved the lock thing.
16:06:06cockroachfdisk says "Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes"
16:07:54cockroachbut if I put that same card in the ipod and connect it via usb, fdisk says "Units: sectors of 1 * 2048 = 2048 bytes"
16:11:42speachyaaaah, okay, so the ipod firmware is reporting 2K hardware sectors.
16:11:48cockroachindeed
16:11:57cockroachbut only with this card.
16:12:13speachyis it a larger card than the others?
16:12:27cockroachno, both are about 16 GB
16:13:13speachymight be informative to dump the first 512 bytes of each card and see how they differ
16:13:16cockroachbut the other one I formatted myself, and I only put a very "light" rockbox installation on it.
16:13:45cockroachyeah, I did that. the one from itunes *does* habe a bunch of stuff before the partition table, mine doesn't
16:13:50cockroachhave*
16:13:58speachybasically with the hardwre sector size of 2048, there's no point in formatting the card with 512 byte logical sectors.
16:14:05*speachy nods.
16:14:15speachySo it's apple being... apple?
16:14:19 Quit sherbets (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
16:14:20cockroachpossibly :)
16:14:53cockroachmaybe I'll just dd those first few bytes to my card and see what happens.
16:16:08cockroachalso, the ipod works perfectly fine with my card, it just bothers me that rockbox' ipodpatcher doesn't detect it this way
16:16:30cockroachwhich is mostly irrelevant. but not quite perfect :)
16:17:25speachywell, ipodpatcher could be um, patched. :P
16:18:02speachythat 2K sector thing might have some vestigial history back to the oldest mac/firewire-only ipods.
16:18:12cockroachheh yep, if I force it to use 2048 byte sectors instead of asking the OS for the size, it works. but that seems wrong.
16:19:17cockroachoh? did the firewire ipods have 2k sectors?
16:20:05_BilgusI wonder if this could be why rockbox has an issue with file transfers
16:20:30gevaertsNothing to do with firewire
16:20:53_BilgusItd be interesting to try and reformat a device with transfer issues to 2048b sectors
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16:21:24gevaertsThe original 80GB drives in the ipod video have a bug that means they don't work with 512 byte sectors, so apple went to 2048 for them
16:21:35_Bilgusrthink about it though if the ipod reports 2048 to the FAT code in rockbox while the underlying card is 512
16:22:07gevaertsI don't remember which magic rockbox uses to determine which sector size to report over usb
16:22:53_Bilgus*Almost* makes me wish I had an iPod /s
16:22:56cockroachgalaxy_knuckles: ah, that might be worth investigating
16:23:02cockroach:)
16:23:11cockroachgevaerts: sorry, I meant you
16:23:28_Bilguslol I was like WTH is that
16:25:47galaxy_knuckleslol
16:26:28cockroachgalaxy_knuckles: sorry, didn't mean to wake you :)
16:26:42gevaertsProblem is that I only encountered this for usb and had to go on reports by others, I never had one of those devices myself
16:27:24galaxy_knucklescockroach: nah - i am in nyc and have been on since 6am for work
16:27:27speachywell, other than rockbox effectively HACFing if the physical sector size is larger than the logical sector size, what can it really do?
16:28:11*speachy is assuming that the rockbox Partition/FAT code isn't hardcoded to 512 byte sectors
16:29:30*_Bilgus hopes not
16:29:45gevaertsWell, it works on the 80GB ipod video :)
16:31:00_Bilgusyeah but wouldn't a harddrive just fall to the next sector maybe the sd card wear leveling comes into play
16:31:18_BilgusWAG*
16:32:11gevaertsHmmm
16:32:36_Bilgusnext time we get someone with an ipod iflash transfer issue we can have them try it and maybe find out
16:33:40gevaertsVery vague memories tell me that rockbox always uses 512 byte sectors on ATA, but the specific bug on that drive model was that you have to always start your transfers at even sectors. The Apple workaround was to use FAT with 2K sectors and present that over USB, so rockbox does that too
16:33:50gevaertsSo it's a translation layer
16:34:10gevaertsBut again, vague memories...
16:35:05gevaertsAnd (similarly vague) IIRC rockbox knows which it is by looking at partitions?
16:36:50gevaertsSee disk_sector_multiplier[] in firmware/common/disk.c
16:37:43gevaertsAnd use of disk_get_sector_multiplier() in firmware/usbstack/usb_storage.c
16:39:55gevaertsSo tl;dr if you partition and format the drive as "2K", it will be exposed over USB with a 2K sector size. If you partition and format it as 512, it will show up as 512. I do not know how the apple disk mode does it
16:40:48_Bilgushttps://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/blob/master/firmware/common/disk.c#L99
16:41:52_Bilgushttps://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/blob/master/firmware/usbstack/usb_storage.c#L794
16:41:55gevaertsYes, that one. And the code around https://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/blob/master/firmware/common/disk.c#L216 to determine it
16:42:11gevaertsMy advice is: if you don't *need* to know more, stop now :)
16:42:19gevaertsAt least if you value your sanity!
16:43:42_Bilgusso it looks like it brute forces it till it works
16:44:12gevaertsYes, IIRC there is no other way, as the MBR doesn't actually tell you which sector size the numbers in it assume
16:44:41_Bilguseven if it did how would you decide it were valid
16:45:01gevaertsWhich also means that *just* formatting the FAT filesystem with 2K sectors isn't good enough if the partition table assumes 512
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16:45:58gevaertsI suspect the Apple disk mode on the affected devices just hardcode 2048
16:46:00speachyseems that it would be feasible to detect a discrepancy there.
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16:47:38cockroachsorry, was afk for a few minutes. that's excellent information, I'll try to figure out how I need to modify my sd card to make rockbox report it as 2k. Thanks!
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16:49:22gevaertsIf you try to do that in a card reader that reports 512 byte sectors, that might not be trivial
16:49:35gevaertsHmm, maybe...
16:49:50cockroachI'm sure I'll fail, but it will keep me busy for a while :)
16:50:55gevaertsIf you first make a partition that's nicely aligned on sectors that are divisible by 4, then format that with -S 2048, and *then* delete that partition table entry and create a new one with everything (start, size) divided by 4, your PC won't find the filesystem any more, but as soon as you put that in the ipod, things might work
16:52:13gevaertsExtra hint, start by zeroing out the start of the disk. If rockbox finds a valid-looking FAT32 superblock at one of the other possible offsets (a remnant from an earlier attempt, maybe), it might think that that's the one
16:52:24cockroachhmm, but there must be another way −− after all, I *do* have an sd card that works just fine in the PC *and* reports 2k blocks in the ipod
16:53:12gevaertsThe other way would be to put it in the ipod and boot in apple disk mode, maybe?
16:53:45cockroachah interesting, I haven't tried that. that's with select+play, right?
16:53:48gevaertsPossibly after zeroing the first few kilobytes
16:54:03gevaertsI *think* so. It's a long time ago :)
16:54:08cockroach:)
16:57:45cockroachoh, that's fascinating - the other sd card doesn't actually work on the PC (i.e. I can't access the FAT partition), so maybe you were right...
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17:25:44DEBUGLost contact with server (snapshot: dancer.c line 124)
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17:53:01_Bilgusoh well do let us know if you do or don't when you get there
17:53:27_Bilgusthe do have issues problem is quick but the didn't have problems case might take a few days
17:53:28cockroachaye. I'll restore the music through USB then, that should be a good test
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23:41:00Nugettes_Builtin Hey I tried to use both double sided tape and regular tape i folded it and placed it in. The double sided tape might be to thick to place between the the ribbon cable and logic board. I also used hot glue from the glue gun it doesnt stick on...
23:41:12Nugettes_builtin
23:41:27Nugettes__builtin
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23:50:32NugettesI probably didnt leave hot glue gun heating long enough...
23:52:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:54:05cockroach_Bilgus: after transferring a bit of data, it seems the card works fine with the ipod's built-in disk mode. rockbox, however, crashes regularly during transfers.
23:54:39_BilgusThanks for playing! :P
23:55:15_Bilgusthough I'm not sure it crashed before or was silent corruption
23:55:47Nugettes:/

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