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#rockbox log for 2020-05-08

00:12:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:17:24 Part AForkInTheButt
00:58:41_BilgusI think they are our own versions
00:58:56_Bilgusmaybe posix IDR
02:12:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:21:35 Quit MrZeus_ (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
03:58:29 Quit cockroach (Quit: leaving)
04:12:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:39:38_Bilgusyes posix:
05:43:07 Quit [7] (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
05:43:15 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
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07:29:14 Quit amiconn (Quit: - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
07:29:14 Quit pixelma (Quit: .)
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18:02:46 Join applebar [0] (
18:02:56applebarhola gamers
18:03:04applebarhow's everyone doing today?
18:06:01 Quit MrZeus_ (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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18:12:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:16:48*speachy is just peachy today.
18:17:21gevaertsspeachy's peachy? :)
18:17:32speachywell, only on days ending in Y
18:17:57applebarthat's good to hear
18:18:18applebarhey, apparently there's a rockbox android app?
18:18:32applebarhow does it stack up against other android music player apps?
18:18:34speachyyes, but it doesn't work on >= 4.4
18:18:40speachyer, >4.4
18:19:13applebarlike, doesn't even start?
18:19:47 Quit Riku (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
18:20:56speachyalso the UI paradigm doesn't map well to touch interfaces.
18:21:31 Join Riku [0] (
18:26:31applebarapparently there's work in the chinese rockbox community to get the app working on lollipop and above
18:26:59applebari wonder if any of that work got merged into the mainline project
18:33:12speachyAFAIK no source for that was ever published
18:36:38applebarSo this isn't it?
18:38:09 Quit ubervison (Remote host closed the connection)
18:38:21speachythare have been almost no changes in the android/ subdirectory, and what chances there are seem to be trivial.
18:39:11applebarso what exactly is stopping the app from launching on newer versions of android?
18:39:59speachychanged APIs for always-on stuff.
18:40:39speachyand probably plenty of others, but that's the biggue
18:41:01speachysomeone comfortable with Android stuff could probably knock this out in relatively short order
18:41:12speachybut that describes nobody here
18:45:59speachythe diffstat on that repo between master is +7108-584
18:47:30pixelmawasn't the problem dalvik => art and requiring some changes in a very lowlevel port of Rockbox?
18:48:29speachyAFAIK the NDK portion (ie most of the code) remains unchanged, but it's possible the interface betweeen the native code and the "java" code needs changing too.
18:49:21speachyplus rockbox is fixed to a specific screen size at compile time
18:49:28pixelmaif it needs to be done right. I believe there was a hack by wodz to make it run at all but that was not done "right"
18:49:57speachylong story short.. needs a decent amount of work by someone who knows what they're doing.
18:58:18speachyI take that back; there are some non-trivial changes in the RCC tree.. but I can't tell if it's targeting a newer base API
18:59:32applebarhey, is the bountysource here official?
19:01:06speachynever heard of that.
19:04:21gevaertsI can't find anything about that in my irc logs that go back to 2008
19:05:40speachystill grepping the irc logs
19:06:42speachyno reference, period. nothing on any of the www sites either.
19:07:57speachyor forum.
19:16:39applebarWell, maybe setting up an official one would be a good idea
19:18:08applebarbasically the gist of the site is that software developers can get paid for working on features or fixing bugs
19:19:06applebari'd throw some money towards the project if it meant that the Android app got fixed for newer versions and had dynamic resolution support
19:19:58speachyfixed resolution is _deeply_ baked into rockbox's internals
19:23:11applebardid this patch ever get merged in?
19:26:18_Bilgusre: bounty source, WTF owns the $$ till its disbursed
19:27:22_BilgusAnd the user has to pay upfront and wait to get a fix / won't fix to get a refund?
19:27:46 Quit dys (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:27:47_Bilgusso who owns that account then?
19:28:06applebaridk who owns the account
19:28:16applebarbut bountysource has a page explaining how it works here:
19:28:29speachyother than the generic paypal donation link (to offset fixed administrative/hosting/etc costs) I would personally stay far away from accepting any funding.
19:28:44*__builtin didn't know we had a bounty program!
19:28:55applebarthey don't
19:29:03applebarbut it's not a bad idea in principle
19:29:04speachy__builtin, and we still don't. :D
19:29:36__builtinI don't think many of our devs would be motivated by a bounty anyway
19:29:53__builtinmany of the handful of semi-active devs that are still around, that is
19:30:29*speachy would be curious to see what the typical annual turnover on that paypal link turns out to be..
19:30:32applebarmight attract new devs though
19:31:03_BilgusMaybe but I doubt it
19:31:05__builtinI think that's a question for bjorn
19:31:10mendel_munkisapplebar: thanks for pointing out that patch. it may help me with some other stuff I have on the back burner
19:31:28speachybut back to fs#1165, never was applied, and the patch is far from applying cleanly to current code..
19:31:29fs-bluebot Misbehavior in "Set Time/Date" screen (NOT a settings loss) (bugs, closed)
19:31:43speachywhoops, 11615..
19:31:59_BilgusIf that becomes a thing I don't want the bounty like gentleman agreement to give donate it back to project?
19:32:00applebarat least it's a starting point
19:33:15fs-bluebot Dynamic screen size (patches, new)
19:33:24applebarso, the individual developers would agree to distribute the money equally amongst the project for solving issues? _Bilgus
19:34:33_Bilguslike any bounty recv'd will be donated back to Rockbox to be used as the project sees fit
19:34:35speachythat patch is going to grow the binary size a bit. might be the death knoll for the sh targets at long last.
19:35:04_Bilgusspeachy that patch probably adds ALOT of extra overhead too
19:35:11__builtinit's also 10 years old, so merging it will not be easy
19:35:35speachynot to mention the need to bundle variously-sized resources on targets that can truly change sizes
19:35:50applebartrue, but the idea of the bounty system is for the users to have some input as to what gets fixed/worked on
19:36:07speachywhat users? :D
19:36:27_BilgusI'd almost rather resample, devices that need it have the HP to so it
19:36:29speachyto be blunt, we're far better served by putting any effort into new/current hardware
19:36:31__builtinre: bounty, the usual path for a "user who wants something badly" to actual get it is to become a dev
19:36:41applebarwell, since i'm here, and since i'm not a dev, i'm tentatively saying that may quite possible me a user
19:36:55applebardang i really had a stroke while writing that sentence
19:37:09applebar*tentatively saying that i may quite possibly be a user
19:37:25applebarso we know there's one user, at least
19:37:29_Bilgusthey have classes to help you with that applebar
19:37:52applebarwriting a sentence, or becoming a dev?
19:38:00_Bilgusbeing a user
19:38:20__builtinwe *do* also have fairly good new-dev resources
19:38:34speachyand the onramping is easier than it used to be
19:39:01speachyif we rewrote it all in javascript that would attract more developers!
19:39:11applebaroh god please no
19:39:19applebardon't even make me think about electron rockbox
19:39:35_Bilgus \s doesn't come out well in IRC sorry if I offended you
19:39:47applebarhuh, when you think about it, an electron rockbox is just a fancy name for a battery
19:39:49mendel_munkis_Bilgus, speachy __builtin: I dont plan on using the patch I just think that it may contain the solution to a different issue I have
19:40:15_Bilgusmendel_munkis, which patch?
19:40:22applebarthe dynamic resolution patch
19:40:34fs-bluebot Dynamic screen size (patches, new)
19:40:44speachyI agree, 11615 is something that IMO should get cleaned up and strongly considered
19:41:07mendel_munkisspeachy: you really dont like sh do you?
19:41:48speachyeh, I'm largely indifferent to sh; it's just that all of our sh targets are also the only hwcodec targets and also the ones that are the most resource-constrained
19:42:52speachyI don't want to let supporting those old targets prevent us from adding new capabilities
19:43:17speachyotherwise, by all means, we can keep them around forever+day
19:43:45_Bilgusit also has a lot of ifdef junk littered all over the codebase
19:44:27speachyI thought the toolchain bump I'm working on would be a good excuse to kill sh, but.. instead, the new toolchain actually improved the situation.
19:44:52speachy(and unexpectedly, the PortalPlayer targets turned out to be the holdup..)
19:45:19mendel_munkismaybe for version 4
19:46:41speachyironically, the newest targets are among the more resource constrained, as they only have ~6-8MB of RAM to work with (out of 32) due to the fixed overhead of the hosted linux environment.
19:47:02speachybut they have oodles of spare CPU cycles
19:47:10mendel_munkisthe real qustion is if its possible to remove the hosted linux
19:48:04speachypossible? absolutely! worth the effort? that's a lot more debatable, given that if datasheets exist, they are only in Chinese.
19:48:28speachywe don't even have the required-by-GPL Linux kernel sources.
19:49:42speachybeing able to rebuild the linux environment would be hugely beneficial
19:55:20speachyapplebar, in all seriousness, fixing up that patch to apply against the current codebase would be a good way to embark on the lucrative path of becoming a rockbox developer.
19:56:29applebar> in all seriousness
19:56:30applebar> lucrative
19:56:35applebaryou sure about that?
19:56:45speachywhat price can you place on knowledge?
19:57:12applebarat least $30,000 a year according to U.S. colleges
19:59:09speachythere you have it, rockbox is an absolute bargain!
19:59:24applebarfair point
19:59:42applebarmaybe i can help out with the theming side of things as a start
20:00:01applebari actually have graphic design knowledge, for one
20:00:28speachyall contributions are useful
20:02:00applebarso, as far as the theming side of things go, does each theme have to be remade for each different device?
20:02:13_Bilgusbuddy you have fun with that theme engine its a unforgiving mistress
20:02:20speachyno, themes are keyed off of screen size/resolution
20:02:42mendel_munkisspeachy not colors?
20:02:53applebarso each theme works on all devices?
20:02:53speachywhoops, I meant to say bit depth
20:03:13speachybut IIRC you can use a lower bit depth theme on a higher bit depth device.
20:04:26speachyapplebar, yes, if two devices share teh same screen size and color depth, they can use the same themes
20:08:18applebarit'd be cool to try and get a standard suite of themes across all devices
20:08:58speachythere is some device-specific functionality that themes can expose, and for that the so-called 'checkwps' tool will tell you if it's compatible with a given target.
20:09:57speachywhich, as of a few days ago, has one fewer segfault-inducing buffer overflow bug!
20:12:32_Bilgussaratoga you around? your email on the forum is bad
20:12:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:16:58speachyyeah, it bounces claiming the user/mailbox is unknown.
21:07:01 Part ZincAlloy
21:12:40Zardozanyone know if I need to remove rockbox before I change a hard drive in ipod claasic?
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22:12:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:00:28 Quit applebar (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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