00:07:55 | __Bilgus_ | night |
00:08:24 | speachy | yeah, I'm packing it in too for now; since my little reclocking experiment turned into another rabbit hole |
00:11:49 | __Bilgus_ | night |
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00:58:59 | __builtin | alright, just like that we have a (semi-working) sdl2 port |
01:00 |
01:01:25 | __builtin | although something appears to have broken the normal SDL sim builds... |
01:03:01 | __builtin | or far more likely, they were broken all along and I just never noticed |
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08:14:27 | mendel_munkis | is logbot's code available? |
08:26:21 | speachy | yeah, it's pretty ancient though. |
08:26:43 | speachy | and under a funky license |
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08:45:00 | mendel_munkis | speachy: where would I find it? |
08:45:20 | speachy | http://dancer.sourceforge.net/ |
08:45:38 | mendel_munkis | thanks |
08:54:15 | speachy | I can gauaranteee you're going to have some issues finding its dependencies and getting it to build on modern systems |
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10:02:10 | __Bilgus_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87-WlhWwLBo |
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10:17:49 | __Bilgus_ | oh, speachy did you ever check out that announce plugin? |
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10:27:48 | LambdaCalculus37 | Found my Gigabeat T the other day. It still is stuck on the restore screen after 10 years of not having attempted to port Rockbox to it. |
10:28:16 | __Bilgus_ | at least its consistent? |
10:28:24 | LambdaCalculus37 | Maybe I should give it another crack one of these days? |
10:29:18 | LambdaCalculus37 | The port itself should be relatively easy to do, as the hardware is the same as the Gigabeat S. It's just finding out the signature exploit to inject our code into it. |
10:30:06 | LambdaCalculus37 | Heh, look at me saying "our code"... I'm not a Rockbox dev anymore. :P |
10:36:30 | LambdaCalculus37 | But in all seriousness, I have been giving the Gigabeat T some thought. I need to look for all my notes and firmware updates to see if maybe I can tackle it again. |
10:37:14 | __Bilgus_ | once a dev always a dev? |
10:37:35 | LambdaCalculus37 | Guess so! |
10:38:19 | LambdaCalculus37 | Speaking of firmware updates, I've noticed that a ton of linked firmware updates across the wiki pages, for both supported targets and unsupported targets, are now broken links. This can potentially put a major damper on people needing these firmwares for either research purposes or for restoring players. |
10:38:59 | speachy | we're going to have to mirror things ourselves |
10:39:22 | speachy | if archive.org doesn't have mirrors, anyway |
10:39:26 | LambdaCalculus37 | At this rate, I doubt very much that most of these companies are even going to give a crap about software for devices that they don't even support anymore. |
10:39:29 | __Bilgus_ | I'm not sure of the copyright aspect of that |
10:39:44 | LambdaCalculus37 | That's the slippery slope. |
10:39:46 | speachy | we already have all manner of datasheets and whatnot linked as wiki attachments |
10:40:10 | __Bilgus_ | probably better to host them ourselves and keep a baclkup on the infra |
10:40:42 | speachy | for my printer work I have every bit of documentation/sdk/etc I've ever found stashed into a private git repo |
10:42:29 | LambdaCalculus37 | That's a pretty good way of keeping stuff together and organized. |
10:44:23 | speachy | a lot of it was provided under NDA |
10:45:35 | speachy | but even with proper relationships in place the companies are big and I've received nastygrams from one group while simultaneously being paid by another. :/ |
10:46:23 | speachy | but these old firmware and datasheets for products that haven't been sold (or supported) for a decade, and/or were abandoned three corporate mergers ago.. |
10:50:46 | speachy | $#%^#$@$ now I'm getting failures to read the SD card. even after I backed out the changes I'd made. |
10:52:17 | LambdaCalculus37 | Anywho, I'm going to be getting another Sansa c200 from fleaBay soon (not sure if it's v1 or v2 yet), but I don't remember one detail: I know Rockbox allows use of SDHC card on some devices, but would SDXC (i.e. > 32GB) work on these as well? |
10:52:50 | __Bilgus_ | they should |
10:52:54 | speachy | yeah, you'll need to reformat them as fat32 first |
10:53:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | Okay, good to know. :) |
10:54:20 | LambdaCalculus37 | I've got a couple of spare 32GB and 64GB cards I was using in my Raspberry Pis that I swapped for larger cards, so I can put one of those spares to use in my Sansa. |
11:00 |
11:05:40 | speachy | well well well, the stricter partition validation code worked |
11:06:03 | speachy | when my player crashed the last time it partially trashed the first sector of the filesystem |
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11:43:10 | speachy | sweeet. the X3 dynamically reclocks between 192 and 576 MHz |
11:43:44 | speachy | can probably clock lower on the low side |
11:44:08 | speachy | the audio codec PLL rejiggering has proven to be a lot messier |
11:45:52 | speachy | the jz4760's clocking tree is theoretically very flexible but there are so many restrictions and exceptions... |
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11:52:26 | speachy | the x3 should see noticably better battery life with this. still working on the pll1/audio rejiggering. |
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12:06:58 | __Bilgus_ | now we just need to push you to the rocker :p |
12:18:37 | speachy | without kernel sources there's not a lot that can be done to improve the underlying platform |
12:18:58 | __Bilgus_ | true, bastards. |
12:19:00 | speachy | that's one of the main reasons I abandoned mine for the x3 |
12:19:20 | speachy | that, and much better physical robustness, and an actual like out |
12:19:24 | speachy | s/like/line/ |
12:19:44 | speachy | the back of my rocker is being held together by tape. stupid glass. |
12:23:51 | __Bilgus_ | looks like its a bit hard to procure |
12:24:03 | __Bilgus_ | I see the x3II |
12:24:17 | speachy | I have a spare brand new one I found on ebay for cheeeep |
12:24:57 | __Bilgus_ | wanna trade for a NOS clip zip? |
12:25:29 | speachy | NOS? |
12:25:37 | speachy | new old stock, ah |
12:26:13 | __Bilgus_ | yeah circa 2010 I think |
12:26:56 | speachy | sure, why not. since I managed to source some batteries via aliexpress the main reason I bought the spare is moot |
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12:27:30 | speachy | its only weakness is the horrid screen. its funky key layout is actually really nice for using it by touch |
12:28:12 | __Bilgus_ | I have the fuze+ in my truck its starting to show its age |
12:28:53 | __Bilgus_ | probably a new battery might help but TBH its not my favorite |
12:29:20 | __Bilgus_ | give me few days i'll get with you on trading mailing addresses |
12:30:15 | speachy | I still have my old clip+ that's usable (could use a battery swap) for ams hackery but daily-driver-wise, the x3 has been awesome. |
12:30:53 | __Bilgus_ | I think I bought six gave 2 for gifts and the one I'm using now is missing button presses |
12:31:20 | __Bilgus_ | at this rate I doubt I'll get to them before the batteries die from old age |
12:31:42 | __Bilgus_ | I picked them up for $35 |
12:32:02 | speachy | huh, there's a brand-new x3 on ebay for $75+s/h |
12:32:16 | speachy | and a rockbox'd one for 175 |
12:32:20 | __Bilgus_ | LOL |
12:32:52 | speachy | and a HK seller with a bunch for 120, also new. |
12:33:11 | speachy | the one that has 'em for 75 has a bunch |
12:34:14 | speachy | man, this 4760 audio codec clocking crap is.. wtf. |
12:35:22 | speachy | was able to downclock the 48KHz mode at least, but 44KHz might be stuck with the PLL blasting @ over 500MHz due to the PLL and divisor restrictions. |
12:36:17 | __builtin | license lawyers: can we incorporate GPLv3 code into our codebase? |
12:36:18 | __Bilgus_ | lol the lower quality uses more battery |
12:36:26 | __Bilgus_ | cant write this shit :p |
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12:37:04 | speachy | well, if I can come up with a different PLL base clock within the divisor restrictions.. |
12:37:21 | __builtin | I'd suspect that the resulting combination would be covered by GPLv3 |
12:37:33 | speachy | __builtin, yep. |
12:38:00 | __builtin | so covered by GPLv3 then? |
12:38:01 | speachy | I think rockbox is gpl2+ so it would be legally kosher |
12:38:20 | speachy | but we'd effectively end up moving rockbox gpl3+ if we did that |
12:38:46 | __builtin | yeah, that's the problem |
12:38:51 | speachy | (personally I much prefer gplv3) |
12:39:19 | speachy | (unless we have some sub-component that's GPL2-only..) |
12:39:23 | __builtin | perhaps we can build some technical means to isolate the GPLv3 portions |
12:39:50 | gevaerts | Well... |
12:39:55 | __builtin | I'm wanting to port SDLPoP so it'd just be a plugin |
12:40:04 | gevaerts | The resulting *binaries* would be gplv3 |
12:40:24 | speachy | __builtin, if it's a plugin we can probably treat the plugin boundary as a GPL barrier. |
12:40:26 | gevaerts | That doesn't mean the source license has to be upgraded |
12:41:02 | speachy | not unlike linux's userspace boundary. |
12:41:06 | __builtin | speachy: a barrier in what sense? |
12:41:52 | gevaerts | Hmmm, given that you have to build everything together and there are very tight version constraints I'm not convinced that's true |
12:42:02 | speachy | we'd have to basically state that we don't consider rockbox plugins to be deriviate works of rockbox itself |
12:42:39 | __builtin | that's a stretch |
12:42:53 | gevaerts | But yes, I would have questions about declaring SDL to be a derivative of rockbox :) |
12:43:16 | speachy | plugins are independent binaries using a published system call interface. |
12:43:46 | * | gevaerts doesn't remember the wording about things being distributed together |
12:43:47 | johnb2 | speachy : I used to login into gerrit using my yahoo ID, but this isn't working anymore. Is this a known issue? |
12:44:00 | speachy | the thing about GPL violations is that (1) someone has to care, and (2), that someone has to have the right to enforce it |
12:44:19 | speachy | johnb2: yeah, yahoo disabled openid authentication |
12:44:36 | johnb2 | what is a good alternative? |
12:44:40 | speachy | there are only two parties that can object −− us, and the authors of that plugin |
12:45:53 | speachy | johnb2: I can't comment on generic openid providers. there are ones you can deploy and run yourself, or google and github are also enabled and work okay |
12:46:10 | __builtin | so they'd object over GPL3'd binaries being used in violation of GPL3 (but in compliance with v2)? |
12:46:16 | johnb2 | yeah, just found that my github account works. |
12:46:26 | speachy | johnb2: if you log in with a different provider I can fix things up so the duplicate accounts are linked |
12:46:40 | speachy | or rather, dedup things |
12:46:51 | speachy | for any old stuff you have lying around |
12:47:14 | gevaerts | I don't actually think it matters at all. I mean, in the derivative work case, the entire binary distribution becomes gplv3, so you can get the source under gplv3. In the non-derivative case, you get the source as a gplv2+/gplv3 mix. You can *also* just get the source without invoking the "I got the binary, give me the source" clauses, in which case you also get the v2/v3 mix |
12:48:10 | speachy | gevaerts: I'm speaking in general terms, but yes, you're essentially correct. But I go back to my original point about that effectively making rockbox gplv3 |
12:48:48 | speachy | the original files are mostly v2+ but the final result is v3[+] |
12:49:28 | gevaerts | I think for rockbox the only case in which there would be a real difference would be if people hold patents on the stuff they contribute. I'm fairly confident in guessing that that hasn't happened yet |
12:49:57 | __builtin | perhaps the tivoization clauses too? |
12:50:49 | __builtin | in fact that's probably more relevant since we're largely a firmware project |
12:51:23 | gevaerts | Well, we only run on things that we managed to run things on |
12:52:15 | gevaerts | So yes, in theory that might matter, and it could in theory block some official manufacturer ports, but I mean, how likely are those in the first place? |
12:53:14 | __builtin | heh, right |
12:55:06 | gevaerts | If gplv3 code is committed though, I'd suggest putting something in docs/ that says which bits someone who really wants v2 binaries would have to disable (or fully committing to v3). I don't think it's worth the effort to go as far as things like ffmpeg, where you can pick the desired license compatibility in the build options |
12:56:32 | gevaerts | But then that's all my opinion. I can't be reasonably considered "active" these days, so I don't think I'm entitled to a formal voice in this :) |
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13:00:23 | speachy | everyone who has code committed counts |
13:01:56 | speachy | gevaerts: but yeah.. I agree about putting in a V2_ONLY build option. as long as it's just plugins though I don't think it'll be terribly big of a deal. |
13:02:48 | gevaerts | Well, in some ways, yes, (a) but we're already "2+", so switching to v3 is allowed, (b) I think the future should be decided by those who are active, and (c) I think there's no real effect anyway |
13:03:30 | speachy | hey, but we get to wank philisophical about licensing, that's an effect! :D |
13:03:37 | gevaerts | True :) |
13:04:02 | gevaerts | And not allowing v3 blocks some code, which could encourage people to work on things other people may find more important! |
13:04:15 | gevaerts | Or it could discourage them to work on things at all, of course |
13:05:24 | __builtin | I like the V2_ONLY idea |
13:05:54 | __builtin | probably with an associated configure switch |
13:06:04 | __Bilgus_ | because its the only easily tenable one? |
13:06:27 | gevaerts | I like the concept, but I think actual configure support can be delayed until someone actually needs it (or until someone really wants to work on it) |
13:06:59 | __Bilgus_ | mmh I disagree |
13:08:40 | __Bilgus_ | Can't change something like that and expect to push on the other work to the next guy |
13:09:21 | __Bilgus_ | erm person |
13:11:04 | __builtin | what other work? |
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13:11:26 | __builtin | someone who can't comply with GPL3? |
13:11:38 | __Bilgus_ | or doesn't want to |
13:16:04 | gevaerts | The other aspect is do we want more #ifdefs in case someone who *really* wants a v2-only build appears? |
13:18:23 | gevaerts | As long as it's just plugins, that's not too terrible of course (but then neither is manually removing that one directory or file from SOURCES or SUBDIRS. If it's more than that, yes, it needs to be done properly from the start, you don't want to tell people to comment out some lines in apps/somefile.c |
13:20:05 | __builtin | we'd just have a couple #ifdefs in SUBDIRS |
13:20:49 | __builtin | and I think it's really unlikely that someone actually cares about v2-only |
13:21:00 | gevaerts | Yes, I'm thinking adding this to configure probably takes less time than arguing about it :) |
13:22:00 | __builtin | I'll do it then |
13:22:10 | __builtin | and if people complain we'll hear about it |
13:22:55 | gevaerts | The existence of the switch might also alleviate concerns from those who don't share my opinion that v3 doesn't actually change anything in practice |
13:24:04 | gevaerts | Maybe an email to -committers stating the intention to add v3 code would be useful? Carefully phrased so it's not an invitation to discuss things forever of course, you want to get on with it :) |
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13:26:17 | speachy | With my "I'm the one actually distributing this stuff" hat on, we'd definitely need to make sure all documentation properly states the GPLv3 nature of the binaries, with copies of the license, etc etc etc. |
13:34:43 | gevaerts | Yes, agreed |
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15:05:50 | speachy | sweeet! |
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15:06:10 | speachy | at 44.1KHz I have the X3 running _without_ PLL1 |
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15:14:17 | speachy | hmm. wonder how hard it would be to get DSD working on this thing. |
15:18:40 | speachy | slkaving off the XTAL I can get it down to 0.04% freq error |
15:19:02 | speachy | at 44.1. at 48, the best I can do is 0.8% |
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16:35:56 | Strife89 | The m200 OF is a fickle beast |
16:36:14 | Strife89 | It keeps freezing while doing it's dreaded database refresh |
16:37:22 | Strife89 | Can't really tell whether it's frozen or not, except to time it and guess at what's a reasonable point to decide it froze. |
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16:41:02 | speachy | relatively high SD card loading |
16:48:09 | Strife89 | Also, I think the Power button was pretty worn out when I got this thing, and I've made it worse from all the boot attempts |
16:48:42 | Strife89 | I'm not finding it nearly impossible to boot the OF |
16:48:47 | Strife89 | s/not/now |
16:49:37 | Strife89 | Plugging USB while holding Rew *should* work, but the OF is getting stuck on it's boot splash screen |
16:51:41 | Strife89 | Net result: oops, I can't get files on or off the player without using the RB bootloader's (or Rockbox itself) USB mode |
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20:14:03 | Strife89 | __Bilgus_: My Sansa c250 also has a problem with battery bench on the current build, although it's a different problem. |
20:14:50 | Strife89 | After I start a benchmark, it goes back to the plugins menu, and appears to freeze. I gave it five minutes, buttons still don't respond. |
20:19:28 | Strife89 | I cleared my settings, deleted the bench text file, rebooted and tried again. Same problem. c200v1, revision eb0e41c1cc. |
20:27:31 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
20:35:51 | Strife89 | Possibly having problems with it on my Clip+ now, but it could also have to do with having multiboot set up. |
20:43:52 | Strife89 | WTF?? https://photos.app.goo.gl/k5z1N2nqp8KtcUqT6 |
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21:07:14 | | Quit MrZeus (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
21:38:05 | __builtin | ladies and gents, we have video via SDL2.0! :) |
21:45:10 | Strife89 | Congratulations! |
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22:19:36 | __builtin | this is going much faster than 1.2 |
22:19:41 | __builtin | probably because it's basically the same code... |
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22:49:52 | __Bilgus_ | Strife89 Clearly there is an issue let me see if I can repro |
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23:36:40 | __Bilgus_ | Strife by chance are you doing theser test with multiboot through a ROLO? rolo doesn't currently work right with multiboot because it bypasses the bootloader |
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23:48:02 | __builtin | note to self: the sim should fail gracefully if it can't open an audio device |
23:48:36 | __builtin | rather than crashing out in SDL_BuildAudioCVT as it does now |
23:53:46 | __Bilgus_ | there are a lot of funny quirks like that in the sim it seems |
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23:54:45 | __builtin | funnily enough, because the sim runs on SDL, I'm great at debugging it :) |
23:55:03 | __builtin | I'm literally running SDL in SDL! |
23:56:39 | __Bilgus_ | the one wth the button buffer crashing when full is an interesting one but I've come to love it |
23:56:54 | __builtin | oh yeah, queue_post ovf? |
23:57:05 | | Quit massiveH (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
23:57:29 | __Bilgus_ | oh you never get to see it, its a handy way to stop hung plugins lol |