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| 14:47:45 | salty-horse | did anyone here investigate the xduoo firmware since the port was merged? I'm trying to figure out which part is the vendor's software itself and can't quite find it (new to RE of this kind) |
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| 14:52:59 | speachy | the only thing rockbox changed in the OF is one of the bootup scripts to invoke our "bootloader" application. |
| 14:54:44 | salty-horse | so... no? |
| 14:54:47 | speachy | we rely on the vendor-supplied OS/kernel and various libraries. |
| 14:58:01 | speachy | I don't think any further investigations specific to the X3ii have taken place. |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:51 | salty-horse | thanks |
| 15:01:06 | speachy | hard to do so without having one in our hands. :) |
| 15:01:27 | salty-horse | I understand that xduoo is kind of in violation of the gpl, by refusing several people's requests to provide source code? at least judging by conversations online |
| 15:01:55 | salty-horse | speachy, well I have one. I just need directions :) |
| 15:02:16 | speachy | AFAIK xduoo has never shipped the source code for their GPL components. |
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| 15:04:13 | efqw | You have to get creative and get a root shell first :) |
| 15:04:32 | speachy | efqw: already there, via adb. :) |
| 15:04:39 | efqw | lol |
| 15:04:42 | Lonoxmont | wew lad |
| 15:05:56 | efqw | btw my m3k investigations are still going, but life gets in the way |
| 15:06:20 | speachy | c'est la vie |
| 15:06:45 | * | efqw nods |
| 15:08:32 | efqw | I'll try to update the wiki with some of my existing notes this week. Hopefully I can get things to work before this player gets dropped by FiiO in favour of the M3 Pro. |
| 15:08:40 | speachy | yeah |
| 15:08:59 | speachy | I've identified a few more models that are hiby-based BTW |
| 15:09:18 | efqw | Cool, what are those? |
| 15:09:41 | speachy | hidizs AP60ii and AP100 |
| 15:10:13 | speachy | and the hifiwalker h2 |
| 15:11:22 | efqw | & Hidizs AP80 as well I presume? |
| 15:11:47 | speachy | I don't think so. |
| 15:12:10 | speachy | wait, yes. |
| 15:12:57 | speachy | I generally excluded touchscreen-only modeeels. |
| 15:13:01 | efqw | AP100 is JZ4760B. |
| 15:13:35 | efqw | That's quite a significant markup for physical buttons though. ($230) |
| 15:14:05 | speachy | it also has sp/dif in/out too |
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| 15:14:49 | efqw | AP80 should be more than serviceable if we disable the touchscreen and rely on the rotary encoder though. |
| 15:15:15 | Lonoxmont | isnt sp/dif that optical meme audio thing |
| 15:15:27 | speachy | there are likely many more models that are hiby-based and touchscreen-only |
| 15:16:00 | Lonoxmont | if its the one im thinking of i dont think it aged well |
| 15:16:08 | Lonoxmont | or like theres other things that supercede it |
| 15:17:35 | speachy | their full list is ap60, ap60 pro, ap60ii, ap80, ap80 pro, ap100. |
| 15:19:02 | efqw | tbh I really don't think the ap60 is worth the markup (over m3k) unless somehow the dac in there is just *really* good |
| 15:20:22 | efqw | The capacitive button region is narrower than the M3K, it still uses MicroUSB, and the memory is only 32MB instead of 64MB (not that it matters for rb since 32MB is still plenty) |
| 15:21:19 | salty-horse | speachy, doh. found the player program. it's /usr/bin/hiby_player |
| 15:22:02 | speachy | oh, there's also the shanling m1, m2s, and m3s |
| 15:22:27 | efqw | I'm not an audiophile so I won't pretend to know what I'm talking about on DACs, but personally I find the better-than-average DACs in the m3k perfectly serviceable. |
| 15:22:38 | speachy | all of these hiby-based players would be fairly easy ports. |
| 15:22:40 | efqw | Shanling had some RKNANOD stuff I think |
| 15:23:00 | speachy | most of shanling's stuff is rockchip-based, either the nano or the 27xx |
| 15:24:20 | efqw | shanling's M1 has a similar problem as fiio's m5, it's a full touchscreen device without enough buttons |
| 15:24:28 | speachy | yep. |
| 15:24:42 | speachy | granted, we _do_ need a sane touchscreen UI story. |
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| 15:25:31 | efqw | we could totally disable the touchscreen for now if a port was to be made to the AP60, but the other full-touchscreen devices without rotary encoders are pretty much unusable |
| 15:28:03 | efqw | For the M3 Pro, since there are enough screen real estate available (the LCD panel is very tall), a virtual keyboard thing could be added to make it work like the M3K. |
| 15:28:43 | speachy | we |
| 15:29:37 | speachy | a soft keypad is certianly doable, using the same approach as the removed-as-part-of-archos-purge buttonbar stuff. |
| 15:32:01 | efqw | Additionally, I think it's a good idea to compile a list of all available JZ4760[B] + X1000[E] players on the wiki. imo the X1000[E] stuff will probably be floating around the market for quite a while, and it's sensible thing to have a list of those with specs and hardware features laid out for easy organization. |
| 15:36:04 | speachy | so my question is if I'm to pick up one of these for rockbox-tinkering purposes, which one should I go for. I personally am quite disinclined to bother with anything that lacks hard buttons. |
| 15:36:39 | salty-horse | speachy, I see you've tried to decompile hiby_player before with retdec :D |
| 15:36:53 | speachy | there's a used ap100 for $90, hmm |
| 15:37:44 | efqw | M3K is dirt cheap and you can easily make flashable full dumps with xvortex's firmware |
| 15:39:01 | efqw | M3 Pro could be interesting for investigating the possibility of soft keypads but I don't have one (yet, maybe I'll get one someday), so I'm not sure whether you'll be able to get a root shell or not |
| 15:39:39 | speachy | the correct answer is nearly always "the cheapest" :) |
| 15:40:01 | efqw | But beware the FiiO stuff use a completely different software architecture as I've previously mentioned. |
| 15:40:23 | speachy | my goal is to make rockbox usable on commercially-relevant DAPs |
| 15:40:37 | efqw | well, cheapest it is then, lol |
| 15:41:59 | speachy | and the market has nearly bifrucated on rknano-esque shovelware and stuff targeting the "I only use my DAPs with gold-plated oxygen-depleted optical cables to reduce jitter" crowd. |
| 15:42:44 | efqw | once you get the root shell with xvortex's bootloader, use `nanddump` to dump all of the mtd partitions onto your MicroSD |
| 15:44:14 | efqw | since the player is not running during the rb bootloader, you can simply diff your dumps with the real device if there are no bad blocks (mine didn't have any) |
| 15:45:53 | efqw | if you have the full backups, you could do practically anything to your player and it won't brick. flashing back the backup is trivial with ingenic |
| 15:45:57 | efqw | oops |
| 15:46:39 | efqw | flashing back the backup is trivial with ingenic's cloner tool, maybe I'll paste a config file on the wiki someday |
| 15:47:20 | speachy | does the m3k have a true line out mode? |
| 15:47:54 | efqw | I'm not sure. What would count as a "true" line out mode? |
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| 15:52:05 | speachy | not meant to directly drive speakers, but be used as the input into an external amp. |
| 15:52:43 | efqw | maybe you'll have to look into the datasheets of the dac |
| 15:52:59 | speachy | am doing that now, and no, it looks like it's intended to drive headphones only |
| 15:54:20 | efqw | I booted the player up and didn't find any relevant options for lineout in the settings |
| 15:54:25 | speachy | my personal criteria −− external storage, hard buttons, line out, and preferably a case that can handle getting dropped or sat on. |
| 15:54:42 | speachy | pretty sure I could drive over my X3 without damaging it. |
| 15:55:14 | efqw | well, the m3k sometimes come with a case in the box but it's silicone |
| 15:55:38 | efqw | accidentally sitting on it wouldn't be a problem since the player is so small |
| 15:58:22 | efqw | are there any x1000[e] devices with only physical buttons, aside from the rocker? |
| 15:58:51 | efqw | rocker is a bit hard to acquire in some regions now |
| 15:59:06 | speachy | xduoo x3ii & x20 |
| 15:59:16 | speachy | much higher price point though |
| 16:00 |
| 16:01:17 | speachy | the rocker decent enough, but the linux load was... buggy and physically not very robust. |
| 16:01:21 | efqw | X20 is out of my range for DAPs but the X3ii is still somewhat reasoanble. |
| 16:01:38 | efqw | ($120 on amazon) |
| 16:02:24 | efqw | rocker would be a great device if it had better physical build quality and a slightly better screen (IPS panel would be nice) |
| 16:02:33 | speachy | a bunch of original X3s on ebay too |
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| 16:03:44 | speachy | efqw: and @#@$%@ linux source code so we could fix some stupid bugs in the DAC driver |
| 16:04:11 | efqw | lol, true |
| 16:04:29 | efqw | none of the hiby devices had source code releases afaik |
| 16:04:51 | efqw | fiio at least put the kernel source on the internet |
| 16:04:57 | speachy | we have the ingenic reference design sources but that doesn't help much. |
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| 16:05:21 | efqw | (speaking of which someone should bug fiio to release the kernel source for m3 pro as well) |
| 16:05:51 | speachy | I'd still love to see a native port. bare-metal on the x1000 would be a kick-ass base platform |
| 16:07:03 | salty-horse | is it known which "codec chip" the xduoo has? |
| 16:07:38 | efqw | native takes more time, so imo it's better to have serviceable hosted ports for more x1000[e] platforms first |
| 16:07:39 | speachy | __builtin could even port over dosbox and it might have enough ooomph to play magic carpet! :P |
| 16:07:59 | speachy | salty-horse: AK4490 |
| 16:09:48 | efqw | I would really love to see people starting to use rb again on sub $150 DAPs that they can just buy off amazon/aliexpress/ebay. Most of the players supported by rb at this point are no longer being actively manufactured unfortunately. |
| 16:10:21 | speachy | efqw: see my earlier comment about market bifrucation... |
| 16:10:37 | speachy | mid-range has been subsumed by smartphones |
| 16:11:01 | efqw | yeah, I agree with that, half of those are low-end "pretty" crap with no potential on the hardware side |
| 16:11:16 | speachy | s/half/overwhelming majority/ |
| 16:11:21 | efqw | :/ |
| 16:12:07 | speachy | based on an atj2127 or rknano platform that lacks the RAM to do much of anything. |
| 16:13:22 | efqw | Not to mention the lack of SDKs/toolchains/English docs |
| 16:16:12 | speachy | it can have the bestest SDK and docs on the planet, but we're not going to fit rockbox in <300K of RAM. |
| 16:19:09 | speachy | the newest RKNano-D has ~1MB total RAM, but it's split into several different chunks that aren't all directly accessible by both CPU cores. |
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| 18:08:45 | efqw | I'll try to aggregate a comprehensive list of the hiby+fiio players that are powered by the x1000[e] someday if time permits. |
| 18:09:19 | efqw | With some basic info about touchscreen/buttons, dac, price, battery capacity, etc. |
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| 22:13:17 | Strife89 | I wish there was still something decent (and suitable for a Rockbox port) priced like the Clip Zip was (e.g., ~$40 USD) |
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