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#rockbox log for 2020-08-11

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14:46:25 Join salty-horse [0] (~salty-hor@unaffiliated/salty-horse)
14:47:45salty-horsedid anyone here investigate the xduoo firmware since the port was merged? I'm trying to figure out which part is the vendor's software itself and can't quite find it (new to RE of this kind)
14:50:47 Join johnb2 [0] (
14:52:59speachythe only thing rockbox changed in the OF is one of the bootup scripts to invoke our "bootloader" application.
14:54:44salty-horseso... no?
14:54:47speachywe rely on the vendor-supplied OS/kernel and various libraries.
14:58:01speachyI don't think any further investigations specific to the X3ii have taken place.
15:01:06speachyhard to do so without having one in our hands. :)
15:01:27salty-horseI understand that xduoo is kind of in violation of the gpl, by refusing several people's requests to provide source code? at least judging by conversations online
15:01:55salty-horsespeachy, well I have one. I just need directions :)
15:02:16speachyAFAIK xduoo has never shipped the source code for their GPL components.
15:03:55 Join S|h|a|w|n [0] (~shawn156@unaffiliated/shawn156)
15:04:13efqwYou have to get creative and get a root shell first :)
15:04:32speachyefqw: already there, via adb. :)
15:04:42Lonoxmontwew lad
15:05:56efqwbtw my m3k investigations are still going, but life gets in the way
15:06:20speachyc'est la vie
15:06:45*efqw nods
15:08:32efqwI'll try to update the wiki with some of my existing notes this week. Hopefully I can get things to work before this player gets dropped by FiiO in favour of the M3 Pro.
15:08:59speachyI've identified a few more models that are hiby-based BTW
15:09:18efqwCool, what are those?
15:09:41speachyhidizs AP60ii and AP100
15:10:13speachyand the hifiwalker h2
15:11:22efqw& Hidizs AP80 as well I presume?
15:11:47speachyI don't think so.
15:12:10speachywait, yes.
15:12:57speachyI generally excluded touchscreen-only modeeels.
15:13:01efqwAP100 is JZ4760B.
15:13:35efqwThat's quite a significant markup for physical buttons though. ($230)
15:14:05speachyit also has sp/dif in/out too
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15:14:49efqwAP80 should be more than serviceable if we disable the touchscreen and rely on the rotary encoder though.
15:15:15Lonoxmontisnt sp/dif that optical meme audio thing
15:15:27speachythere are likely many more models that are hiby-based and touchscreen-only
15:16:00Lonoxmontif its the one im thinking of i dont think it aged well
15:16:08Lonoxmontor like theres other things that supercede it
15:17:35speachytheir full list is ap60, ap60 pro, ap60ii, ap80, ap80 pro, ap100.
15:19:02efqwtbh I really don't think the ap60 is worth the markup (over m3k) unless somehow the dac in there is just *really* good
15:20:22efqwThe capacitive button region is narrower than the M3K, it still uses MicroUSB, and the memory is only 32MB instead of 64MB (not that it matters for rb since 32MB is still plenty)
15:21:19salty-horsespeachy, doh. found the player program. it's /usr/bin/hiby_player
15:22:02speachyoh, there's also the shanling m1, m2s, and m3s
15:22:27efqwI'm not an audiophile so I won't pretend to know what I'm talking about on DACs, but personally I find the better-than-average DACs in the m3k perfectly serviceable.
15:22:38speachyall of these hiby-based players would be fairly easy ports.
15:22:40efqwShanling had some RKNANOD stuff I think
15:23:00speachymost of shanling's stuff is rockchip-based, either the nano or the 27xx
15:24:20efqwshanling's M1 has a similar problem as fiio's m5, it's a full touchscreen device without enough buttons
15:24:42speachygranted, we _do_ need a sane touchscreen UI story.
15:25:25 Quit johnb2 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
15:25:31efqwwe could totally disable the touchscreen for now if a port was to be made to the AP60, but the other full-touchscreen devices without rotary encoders are pretty much unusable
15:28:03efqwFor the M3 Pro, since there are enough screen real estate available (the LCD panel is very tall), a virtual keyboard thing could be added to make it work like the M3K.
15:29:37speachya soft keypad is certianly doable, using the same approach as the removed-as-part-of-archos-purge buttonbar stuff.
15:32:01efqwAdditionally, I think it's a good idea to compile a list of all available JZ4760[B] + X1000[E] players on the wiki. imo the X1000[E] stuff will probably be floating around the market for quite a while, and it's sensible thing to have a list of those with specs and hardware features laid out for easy organization.
15:36:04speachyso my question is if I'm to pick up one of these for rockbox-tinkering purposes, which one should I go for. I personally am quite disinclined to bother with anything that lacks hard buttons.
15:36:39salty-horsespeachy, I see you've tried to decompile hiby_player before with retdec :D
15:36:53speachythere's a used ap100 for $90, hmm
15:37:44efqwM3K is dirt cheap and you can easily make flashable full dumps with xvortex's firmware
15:39:01efqwM3 Pro could be interesting for investigating the possibility of soft keypads but I don't have one (yet, maybe I'll get one someday), so I'm not sure whether you'll be able to get a root shell or not
15:39:39speachythe correct answer is nearly always "the cheapest" :)
15:40:01efqwBut beware the FiiO stuff use a completely different software architecture as I've previously mentioned.
15:40:23speachymy goal is to make rockbox usable on commercially-relevant DAPs
15:40:37efqwwell, cheapest it is then, lol
15:41:59speachyand the market has nearly bifrucated on rknano-esque shovelware and stuff targeting the "I only use my DAPs with gold-plated oxygen-depleted optical cables to reduce jitter" crowd.
15:42:44efqwonce you get the root shell with xvortex's bootloader, use `nanddump` to dump all of the mtd partitions onto your MicroSD
15:44:14efqwsince the player is not running during the rb bootloader, you can simply diff your dumps with the real device if there are no bad blocks (mine didn't have any)
15:45:53efqwif you have the full backups, you could do practically anything to your player and it won't brick. flashing back the backup is trivial with ingenic
15:46:39efqwflashing back the backup is trivial with ingenic's cloner tool, maybe I'll paste a config file on the wiki someday
15:47:20speachydoes the m3k have a true line out mode?
15:47:54efqwI'm not sure. What would count as a "true" line out mode?
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15:52:05speachynot meant to directly drive speakers, but be used as the input into an external amp.
15:52:43efqwmaybe you'll have to look into the datasheets of the dac
15:52:59speachyam doing that now, and no, it looks like it's intended to drive headphones only
15:54:20efqwI booted the player up and didn't find any relevant options for lineout in the settings
15:54:25speachymy personal criteria −− external storage, hard buttons, line out, and preferably a case that can handle getting dropped or sat on.
15:54:42speachypretty sure I could drive over my X3 without damaging it.
15:55:14efqwwell, the m3k sometimes come with a case in the box but it's silicone
15:55:38efqwaccidentally sitting on it wouldn't be a problem since the player is so small
15:58:22efqware there any x1000[e] devices with only physical buttons, aside from the rocker?
15:58:51efqwrocker is a bit hard to acquire in some regions now
15:59:06speachyxduoo x3ii & x20
15:59:16speachymuch higher price point though
16:01:17speachythe rocker decent enough, but the linux load was... buggy and physically not very robust.
16:01:21efqwX20 is out of my range for DAPs but the X3ii is still somewhat reasoanble.
16:01:38efqw($120 on amazon)
16:02:24efqwrocker would be a great device if it had better physical build quality and a slightly better screen (IPS panel would be nice)
16:02:33speachya bunch of original X3s on ebay too
16:03:07 Quit Rower (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
16:03:44speachyefqw: and @#@$%@ linux source code so we could fix some stupid bugs in the DAC driver
16:04:11efqwlol, true
16:04:29efqwnone of the hiby devices had source code releases afaik
16:04:51efqwfiio at least put the kernel source on the internet
16:04:57speachywe have the ingenic reference design sources but that doesn't help much.
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16:05:21efqw(speaking of which someone should bug fiio to release the kernel source for m3 pro as well)
16:05:51speachyI'd still love to see a native port. bare-metal on the x1000 would be a kick-ass base platform
16:07:03salty-horseis it known which "codec chip" the xduoo has?
16:07:38efqwnative takes more time, so imo it's better to have serviceable hosted ports for more x1000[e] platforms first
16:07:39speachy__builtin could even port over dosbox and it might have enough ooomph to play magic carpet! :P
16:07:59speachysalty-horse: AK4490
16:09:48efqwI would really love to see people starting to use rb again on sub $150 DAPs that they can just buy off amazon/aliexpress/ebay. Most of the players supported by rb at this point are no longer being actively manufactured unfortunately.
16:10:21speachyefqw: see my earlier comment about market bifrucation...
16:10:37speachymid-range has been subsumed by smartphones
16:11:01efqwyeah, I agree with that, half of those are low-end "pretty" crap with no potential on the hardware side
16:11:16speachys/half/overwhelming majority/
16:12:07speachybased on an atj2127 or rknano platform that lacks the RAM to do much of anything.
16:13:22efqwNot to mention the lack of SDKs/toolchains/English docs
16:16:12speachyit can have the bestest SDK and docs on the planet, but we're not going to fit rockbox in <300K of RAM.
16:19:09speachythe newest RKNano-D has ~1MB total RAM, but it's split into several different chunks that aren't all directly accessible by both CPU cores.
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18:08:45efqwI'll try to aggregate a comprehensive list of the hiby+fiio players that are powered by the x1000[e] someday if time permits.
18:09:19efqwWith some basic info about touchscreen/buttons, dac, price, battery capacity, etc.
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22:13:17Strife89I wish there was still something decent (and suitable for a Rockbox port) priced like the Clip Zip was (e.g., ~$40 USD)
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