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#rockbox log for 2020-12-15

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02:25:18 Join petur [0] (~petur@
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08:37:18speachyHey, anyone else having DNS resolution issues for
08:39:12braewoodsgetting this from my canadian server has address has IPv6 address 2001:470:4:754::2 mail is handled by 10
08:39:52braewoodsso apparently not
08:40:09braewoodssame response from home
08:46:34gevaertsSeems fine for me
08:57:50speachygot a report (on the mailing list) of problems, and started getting intermittent failures via public resolvers too.
08:57:57speachybut it seeks okay now
09:01:43speachygotta love heisenbugs
09:02:36braewoodsor just transient isuses
09:08:22 Join Stanley00 [0] (~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00)
09:08:54speachythe internet is always broken, somewhere
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10:58:27braewoodsspeachy: wow. i just tried an early MP3 player with USB 1.1 only.
10:58:32braewoodsthat is far slower than I expected
10:58:41braewoods300 kilobytes a secondish
10:58:53braewoodsusb 2.0 was a massive upgrade for its time
10:59:31braewoods420 kb/s now
11:01:11gevaertsSeems reasonable. In my experience I've never seen usb mass storage be faster than 30% to 50% of the wire speed, which for Full Speed is 12 megabit/second
11:03:56speachyyeah, 20-25MB/s is about the limit of USB2. though UAS can do better due to slightly lower overhead.
11:04:51 Quit massiveH (Quit: Leaving)
11:08:46gevaertsAnd that maps to around 550KB/s for full speed
11:09:12*gevaerts refuses to use "USB 1.1" or "USB 2.0" for specifying speed :)
11:11:38gevaertsThere is that
11:12:48gevaertsBut I mean, if you say "USB 1" I have no idea if you mean LS (1.5Mbps) or FS (12Mbps), and if you say "USB 2" it could still be either of those as well as HS (480Mbps), so it's entirely useless!
11:13:28braewoodsspeachy: i've also noted the max realistic speed is usually half the stated rate, at least for 2.0 and earlier
11:13:50*gevaerts won't mention "VGA resolution" :)
11:14:02braewoodsi have seen around 30 megabytes a second for things that can truly saturate usb
11:14:29braewoodsbut that's usually dedicated UMS
11:14:41braewoodsthings emulating UMS usually perform poorer
11:15:22braewoodsi have been blown away at how fast you can boot from emulated CD drives though
11:15:27braewoodsvirtual cd drives
11:15:35braewoodsrelative to their normal io rates
11:15:46braewoods8MB/s to 100+
11:20:34braewoodsspeachy: have you ever owned an iodd 2531, 2541, or mini?
11:29:06speachyI have a mini2g and nano2g
11:31:18speachyhad an ipod photo at one point but that proved too defective for rockbox (hard drive and battery were both toast, and even after swapping 'em it still would randomly lock up even in the OF)
11:31:54speachyoh wow, just got a $50 donation; that's more than the previous two months combined.
11:32:00braewoodsspeachy: not ipod, iodd.
11:32:14speachybraewoods: oh, whoops. obviously not
11:32:40braewoodsa "smart" 2.5" sata drive enclosure
11:33:02braewoodsyou can use it to convert image files into USB optical drives or mass storage devices
11:33:07braewoodsuseful for booting and more
11:33:20braewoodsalso supports virtual floppy drives
11:33:52speachyseems... overly complicated TBH
11:34:03braewoodsfair enough. i own the 2531 and 2541.
11:34:17braewoodsit has saved me time on installations over the years.
11:34:23braewoodsit just zips through
11:34:42speachyI have piles of old USB sticks for random stuff like that. :)
11:35:33gevaertsProbably useful for that subset of things old enough to need a CD or DVD, yet new enough to handle those over USB
11:35:59speachygevaerts: that's a pretty narrow window
11:36:44speachyI only have two remaining systems in prodution that don't support USB mass storage booting. and they don't handle USB CDs either
11:36:59speachyThey do, however, support USB floppies
11:37:55gevaertsOr maybe for people who work on installation media, so you can test CD booting on actual hardware without needing to waste cds. Pretty niche though
11:38:36speachyI see that as being most useful for field service technicians
11:39:41speachyre: innstallation media −− that's what VMs are for
11:40:19braewoodsfair point but VMs aren't real hardware so you still sometimes would want to test it on the real thing
11:41:11speachywhich is why you don't bother booting physical systems until your VMs are at least happy
11:41:15gevaertsMostly, yes. I suspect there are some edge cases though. I'm not sure how I'd test one of those many-machine installers that has to say support both pc and mac on a single CD in VMs. Maybe possible, but I don't know
11:42:59gevaertsOf course only seven people need that...
11:43:13speachygevaerts: exactly!
11:45:23braewoodsheh. i'm getting 680 kb/s on this thing now that i plugged it into AC power
11:45:34braewoodsseems that helped the speed a bit
11:46:42gevaertsCPU frequency, maybe?
11:47:23braewoodsor disk speed
11:47:25braewoodshard to say
11:47:42braewoodsstill this thing may be capable of RB but i wouldn't bother trying to port it
11:48:00braewoodsit's kinda crappy for the time it was made in
11:48:12braewoodsan hdd070/17
11:48:20braewoodsnot even usb 2.0 capable
11:48:24braewoodsto top it off
11:48:44braewoodsthe hdd is using some esoteric interface so you can't really upgrade it
11:49:13braewoodsit appears it was made in early 2002 or so
11:49:27braewoodsprobably explains the oddness it has
11:50:14gevaertsDo you know what CPU it has? I'm guessing it uses dedicated DSP-based mp3 decoding
11:50:33gevaertsAnd we've just removed that from rockbox because nearly nobody cares about it any more...
11:50:50braewoodsi found the schematic online
11:50:57braewoodspart of why i was looking at the philips gogears
11:50:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:51:10braewoodstheir service manuals usually had the schematic
11:51:12braewoodslet me check
11:51:18gevaertsThe neck strap is fashionable though, can't argue with that! :)
11:51:48braewoodsis the main chip
11:52:08braewoodsappears there was an effort in the past to port to this chip but the ports fizzled due to no datasheets
11:52:35braewoodsthe PMU is... lol
11:52:41braewoodssame one used in the iriver h300
11:53:20gevaertsHmmm, 72MHz ARM. That could points towards regular software decoding
11:53:26 Quit tchan (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
11:53:30braewoodsbut as i said
11:53:45braewoodsthe limitations it has makes a port not so valuable
11:54:03gevaertsAlso, unless you have proof that there's at least one other working one left, why bother? :)
11:54:16braewoodswell i care more about the practicality of a port
11:54:27braewoodsif it doesn't have a few basic things right
11:54:29braewoodswhy bother
11:54:35braewoodsthere's tons of ancient low capacity devices
11:54:37braewoodswe got ports for
11:55:13braewoodsi'd prefer to work on units that have upgradeable storage, replaceable batteries, and at least USB 2.0 (OTG preferred but UMS only works too)
11:55:31braewoodsthat's mainly the HDD based units
11:55:43braewoodsprovided they aren't using some weird interface
11:55:55braewoodslike these proprietary micro drives
11:56:03braewoodsthe one exception is the CF micro drives
11:56:38braewoodsa CF modded player can get up to 13 MB/s in both directions but heavily device specific
11:56:48braewoodspretty good all things considered
11:57:18braewoodsanyway to date the best philips port i've seen were the HDD16xx ones
11:57:36braewoodsi found some brand new old stock of them in the last month
11:57:47braewoodsplan to soup them up once i do some experiments with junkers
11:58:13braewoodsbought all they had for $50 each
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12:20:26speachybraewoods: the diffence is that these ancient targets we have ports for were written when those targets were decidedly less ancient
12:21:52speachybraewoods: undertaking a _new_ port now to one of those ancient targets is not really going to benefit anything beyond your own sense of accomplishment.
12:22:39 Quit petur (Quit: Connection reset by beer)
12:24:01speachyporting to something newer would be roughtly the same amount of overall effort on your part (for a hosted target, considerably less) and would be useful to a much wider audience.
12:45:32braewoodsspeachy: probably so. i doubt there's any others worth porting to.
12:48:40speachyI realized something like that a while back with my printer work −− the second model I ever worked on was a Kodak 1400.when I bought the last three boxes of media available on ebay, what would be
12:49:03speachy... the kodak 1400. When I bought it, I also bought the last three boxes of media that were to be had.
12:49:38speachyso sure, I enabled Linux users to be able to print to those things, but... to date, I think exactly one other person ever actually used that code.
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15:20:11braewoodsQEMU has an MTP responder role.
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15:40:33braewoodsspeachy: interesting. i upgraded the firmware of an old player over USB through host passthrough.
15:40:42braewoodsdidn't expect that to work honestly
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15:40:56braewoodsi guess that's one way to use a windows xp VM
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15:41:11speachyI don't like doing that (because timing and other potential hiccups, especialyl when the device triggers re-enumerations) but yeah, it's viable
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