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#rockbox log for 2020-12-30

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11:35:30kalubeHi, I'm not sure if anyone is aware, but I think the rockbox wiki is down
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11:56:16gevaertsspeachy: one for you I think ^^
11:57:26braewoodsspeachy: looks serious. DB crash of some kind.
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12:54:05knightworxiPod 5.5 gen30 GB drains battery when connected to charger. Any ideas? I know it sounds crazy, but that’s an actual problem I am currently going through. The only way the iPod charges if rockbox is on is if I have it locked with the hold switch. If the screen is on it’ll lose a percentage every few seconds or so. But when it’s off, then it charges. Any way I could fix that? I copy/pasted this from a thread o
12:54:05knightworxn the rockbox subreddit, but it is impacting me now as well. The OP has a modded hdd, I do not. They were also using the latest nightly at the time, and found that it's still happening on the latest stable version, much like myself.
12:54:56knightworxYes, forced charging is on. i left and came back and it had charged 10 percent with the screen off. the second I turned the screen on it started bleeding very hard
12:55:42knightworxOn a dedicated charger plugged into a power strip, it doesnt deteriorate no matter the screen status. only when plugged into a computer.
13:00:25braewoodsknightworx: there's a huge difference right there. computers usually have a limit to how much power they provide over USB.
13:00:40braewoodsi'd grab a power meter and see for yourself.
13:00:53braewoodsthere's usb watt meters you can find on the cheap
13:01:15braewoodsknightworx: dedicated chargers usually can provided up to 3A at 5V.
13:01:15knightworxbut it doesn't do it when on the default firmware. and i'm using a powered hub.
13:01:28braewoodswell it sounds like a USB issue in any case.
13:01:39braewoodstry some diagnostics
13:02:28nihilazothe rockbox wiki is just getting an error for me, says the database needs to be recovered
13:02:32braewoodsi have usb power meters for this very reason
13:02:33nihilazoBDB0087 DB_RUNRECOVERY
13:02:38braewoodsnihilazo: we know.
13:02:49braewoodsthe only person that can fix isn't around
13:03:29nihilazoah ok
13:03:43nihilazooh, sorry. Didn't notice somebody reported it before in the log
13:03:59braewoods"kalube | Hi, I'm not sure if anyone is aware, but I think the rockbox wiki is down"
13:04:10braewoodsstill on my screen here
13:04:41braewoodsknightworx: i'd grab a power meter and see what you can learn. it will help you talk to the people that might be able to help.
13:04:49braewoodsknightworx: if you need an example...
13:05:21knightworxI mean it sounds like a driver issue but i would have no way of fixing that
13:05:41kalubeknightworx: iirc rockbox debug menu on the 5g reports battery consumption in mA, see what it spits out with charger plugged/unplugged
13:06:47kalubeIS the powered hub connected to your PC? It's possible that it doesn't register properly and the PC limits it to 100ma which could maybe cause that
13:07:13knightworxyes, the powered hub is connected to both my pc and an AC adapter
13:07:21braewoodsthis is what i was thinking of
13:07:36knightworxi bought it in order to run multiple sensors for my VR setup
13:07:38braewoodsi've been using mine to diagnose power issues
13:08:21kalubebraewoods: damn only one person can fix the rockbox wiki?!
13:08:46braewoodsspeachy is our admin and i only know of him having access to the necessary systems
13:08:59knightworxkalube: my computer sees this device as 30 different things, the main one being a keyboard, so it sounds like that may have something to do with it
13:09:13braewoodsi know, bus factor and all.
13:09:41braewoodsknightworx: like i said, knowing how much power is being drawn could be very useful.
13:09:47braewoodsit would help eliminate some stuff.
13:09:55braewoodsinstead of it being stabs in the dark
13:10:26knightworxdo you know where i could find information on what it's supposed to draw
13:10:29kalubeknightworx: 30?? The keyboard is because rockbox defaults to being a HID device, it's very possible that your computer just doesn't allow more than 100ma draw for HID devices, although weird. Maybe try changing the input mode to storage and see if that helps
13:10:45braewoodsknightworx: no idea but you can correlate that with your other observations
13:10:51kalubeLook at the power draw in rockbox battery debug when the device is unplugged, then plug it in and see how it changes
13:10:55braewoodsknightworx: how much varies with the device
13:11:22braewoodsmaybe there's a debug for it but an external meter can be useful as well
13:11:43braewoodsknightworx: but you need some way to know the power flow
13:11:54braewoodsunder the circumstances where you know it is working
13:11:59braewoodsbut if it's the OF
13:12:03braewoodsthen i doubt it has this
13:12:11braewoodsin which case you need the external meter
13:12:26knightworxi went to battery in the debug and you can visibly see it plummet when its plugged in
13:12:39kalubeOh that's definitely wrong
13:13:04braewoodsif true it suggests insufficient external current to supply basic needs
13:13:12braewoodsso it has to drain the battery
13:13:45knightworxIbat: fluctuation between low 70s to ~99 mA
13:14:13knightworxVbat: 289 - 380 mW
13:14:58kalubeknightworx: What's the before / after current?
13:15:02knightworxits constantly swapping between charging and discharging, which i would assume might have something to do with it
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13:15:45kalubeActually, before getting into the gory details, if you plug it straight into a USB port on your motherboard, does that fix it? How about a wall adapter for a phone?
13:18:17knightworxon the phone charger plugged into the wall it give me no vbat/ibat usage (says 0 for both), though with the screen on it still says discharging
13:18:34knightworxi know for a fact it charges with the screen off fully, because i used it last night,
13:18:50knightworxi have the brightness turned to like 20% btw
13:19:29kalubeSeems like a dodgy ipod to me... When booted into stock firmware does it charge normally?
13:20:36knightworxhow do i boot into normal firmware? My observations from before were before i installed rockbox... older ipod batteries can be sketchy so i was watching for drain and didn't notice anything weird offhand
13:22:14kalubeHold menu and select until the screen goes blank, then release select and keep holding menu
13:22:20kalubeBasically, hold menu while it boots up
13:22:27knightworxoh ok
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13:26:31knightworx...yeah absolutely no longer getting weird battery power level issues as it now says i am fully charged when on stock firmware
13:26:53knightworxits almost as if the power indicator in rockbox was incorrectly monitoring it?
13:27:47braewoodsno idea
13:28:25knightworxwell i mean at least via process of elimination it's certainly a rockbox thing
13:29:11kalubebraewoods: would you happen to know anything about the iPod classic (6g) ? I'm hoping to get hold of a datasheet but they only seem to be available for the S5L8700X, not the S5L8702 in the classic
13:29:49kalubeThe headers in rockbox give a lot of insight, it looks like the initial porting was done entirely through reverse engineering...
13:29:51braewoodsit's not uncommon for a single datasheet to cover multiple chips that only differ slightyl.
13:30:26braewoodsit sounds like X is to cover all the variants using the same scheme
13:30:35kalubeThey are similar, it's mostly register addresses that vary, but the existing datasheet for the S5L8700X definitely doesn't include the S5L8702
13:30:48kalubeThe X doesn't replace the 2
13:31:56braewoodsit's an apple chip it seems so there's probably no public datasheet
13:32:21kalubeYeah... You've confirmed my suspicions
13:32:45kalubeImpressive that it got a rockbox port considering, it seems like a great deal of research was done to get it going
13:32:52braewoodsapple prefers to keep all their hardware details close to the vest
13:33:08braewoodspart of why i don't buy ipods and such
13:33:15braewoodsnot that android is generally any better
13:34:25kalubeI'd be prone to agree, I'm certainly not interested in Apple's newer hardware, I doubt I'd have bough a 6G if I didn't know it supported Rockbox
13:34:54braewoodsthey're basically engineered to be mindless consumer devices
13:34:58braewoodsand we're not that market
13:35:11kalubeTrue that
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14:33:12knightworxkalube: as an individual that has owned a 6th gen since launch and is going to install rockbox on it, i can tell you it's only been ported fairly recently, and requires a piggyback off of another, (now defunct) projects bootloader. I remember reading about how it'd never get cracked because of how it was setup, so needless to say i got excited to see that it was available and supported
14:34:09kalubeknightworx: yeah originally it used the emcore bootloader iirc, although I thought it first got rockbox in 2012?
14:34:37knightworxI guess what i meant was, it took 6 years for it to happen lol
14:34:50kalubeAh yeah lol
14:35:06kalubeIt's a really really nice device
14:37:27knightworxMine is 13 years old and just has a minor battery issue, so absolutely.
14:37:57speachywiki fixed.
14:38:11speachysorry it took so long; I've been installing flooring.
14:38:24speachykalube: thanks for reporting it
14:52:02speachyunfortunately un-wedging the wiki requires root access.
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15:12:57kalubeAh right, that makes sense
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15:23:42braewoodsspeachy: is there anything better out there? the website seems to go down at least once a month.
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15:35:04kalubemediawiki is pretty good, and I guess migrating to something backed by CI (like gitlab CI) where the entire website is stored on git and supports clean builds so you aren't dependant on a root password or a particular environment
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15:39:11nihilazohaving a wiki backed by git with the web copy built from what people commit into the git repo is a cool idea, I'm not sure how that would look implemented for rockbox
15:41:01kalubeI've been contributing to the postmarketOS project, and their wiki has a git repo ( and it seems to sync up all wiki edits to git commits, so there's always a safe copy of the wiki that just gets imported into and synced with a mediawiki instance (
15:48:23nihilazothat's really cool
15:48:45nihilazodidn't know pmos did it like that, I was thinking kinda like how gh pages works but multiple users have commit access and that is how the wiki is edited
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16:01:59knightworxI was incorrect. my ipod seems to be on the brink of a dead battery with the screen on the entire time it was in stock firmware as well
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16:17:33braewoodsknightworx: replacement is usually cheap for those
16:17:55braewoodsdepends on the model though
16:18:21nihilazodid you say it was a 5.5 earlier? I think those are fairly easy to replace the batteries in. Not sure though
16:18:48knightworxyeah i have another one on the way
16:19:00knightworxi just am not sure if the battery drain is rockbox related or not
16:19:32knightworxbecause its situational and not indicative of a normal old battery
16:20:33knightworxthe battery was not doing this during the time before I installed it as well, though im not 100% for certain
16:21:12knightworxits also VERY odd to me that someone else had the exact same battery issue as me, model and all
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17:01:41kalubeSurely given the devices are nearing 15 years old it makes sense for multiple people with the same model to have the same issues with stuff like battery?
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17:07:40knightworxthe battery on my 6th gen kinda skips down to 0, but not while charging with the screen on
17:18:01braewoodskalube: depends. they are all used and abused differently.
17:18:19braewoodsusage is a heavy factor in when batteries die
17:18:32braewoodsif it only say light use, the battery may have life still
17:18:36braewoodsbut of course time also ages them
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19:54:59speachybraewoods: there are (much) better wiki engines; the catch is migrating the data+history.
19:56:05braewoodsspeachy: i see. would you be willing to share a DB dump? I'd like to see what there is to process.
19:56:15braewoodsmaybe it's possible to port it to another wiki engine.
19:56:35speachythe wiki "database" is a filesystem of RCS files.
19:56:49braewoodsOh. It's not a proper SQL database?
19:56:59speachyI actually migrated it over to a git repo as an experiment a while back
19:57:03*braewoods sighs.
19:57:19braewoodsI see your challenge now.
19:57:46braewoodsWell, I think something could be done.
19:58:08braewoodsbut i'd need data samples to try it all out
19:58:15speachyfoswiki has a ton of other stuff it does on top of of the pages too; as well as the actual markup itself (which is a straightforward PITA) there are some special processing flows that automagically happen; supposedly rockbox is using some already.
19:58:28speachyit goes well beyond templating
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19:58:42braewoodsi see
19:58:55braewoodswhat else is there though?
19:59:06braewoodsall i see is a bunch of static content embedded in special markup
19:59:38braewoodsit seems like the wiki is suffering from bit rot too
19:59:45braewoodsparts keep breaking
19:59:58speachythe old foswiki version only uses a database for "caching" −− and it's a real WTF of an implementation.
20:00:33braewoodscan you share the entire file set, whatever it is? i'd need to look at it to see what needs porting
20:00:50braewoodsit may be easier just to make a new wiki and move the old one to archive state
20:01:01braewoodsconvert over stuff
20:01:06speachythere's a ton of bitrot. bringing it generally up-to-date is a pretty signifigicant undertaking.
20:01:22braewoodsincluding outdated information?
20:01:37speachyplus it's still sort of written around an Archos-is-the-primary-target perspective.
20:02:04braewoodshow important is the history?
20:02:09speachyit's important to keep.
20:02:33braewoodswell to make a successful move i need access to the data files
20:02:35speachyGranted, a git repo might be sufficient
20:02:38braewoodsread-only at least
20:03:14braewoodsany preferences in wiki sets?
20:03:19speachyshort of "crawl the wiki and store the HTML statically" keeping it up in read-only isn't really any different from what it is now, operationally.
20:03:52braewoodsi've seen crux use pmwiki for years.
20:03:56braewoodsseems to work well for them
20:03:59braewoodsit's flat file
20:04:26braewoodsis something like mediawiki prefered?
20:04:27speachyI'm personally partial to dokuwiki; since it uses flat files (or git) for pages instead of a DB, it's a lot easier to programically add files.
20:05:41braewoodswe may not be able to fully port the PWs used in the old wiki
20:05:59braewoodsdue to differences in how they're stored or so
20:06:11braewoodsit's rare for those to port 1 to 1 but it can happen
20:06:28braewoodsjust seems like every system has a different preference for how to store them
20:06:35speachyI'd strongly prefer something that renders static pages; so a DB/git/whetever isn't needed unless someone wants to update things.
20:06:57braewoodssounds like a job for a static site generator
20:07:06speachywe also don't need any sort of "private" or "depends on who's logged in" stuff other than administrative things.
20:07:17braewoodsalmost anyway
20:07:23braewoodswe could move to the github page model
20:07:30braewoodsupdates are PRs to a repo
20:07:32braewoodsor so
20:07:39braewoodsseems more work
20:07:44speachyfoswiki tries to be a full CMS with roles and scripting and all sorts of other insanity.
20:07:48braewoodswikis don't require pre-approval
20:08:40speachyunfortunately we do need to maintain pre-approval, at least insofar as we need to keep spammers out.
20:08:56braewoodspre-approval for accounts
20:08:57braewoodsbut not for edits
20:09:41speachymost of the rest of the wiki complexity comes from being able to log in/edit from the web page directly.
20:11:43speachyit's definitely nicer for drive-by contributions but it perversely discourages mroe advanced users.
20:12:02speachy(vs a "real" editor and direct git integration, for example)
20:16:09speachyanyway, I'll get you a dump sometime in the next few days. need to get back to flooring so the kiddo will have a bed to sleep in tonight.
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