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| 11:35:30 | kalube | Hi, I'm not sure if anyone is aware, but I think the rockbox wiki is down |
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| 11:56:16 | gevaerts | speachy: one for you I think ^^ |
| 11:57:26 | braewoods | speachy: looks serious. DB crash of some kind. |
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| 12:54:05 | knightworx | iPod 5.5 gen30 GB drains battery when connected to charger. Any ideas? I know it sounds crazy, but that’s an actual problem I am currently going through. The only way the iPod charges if rockbox is on is if I have it locked with the hold switch. If the screen is on it’ll lose a percentage every few seconds or so. But when it’s off, then it charges. Any way I could fix that? I copy/pasted this from a thread o |
| 12:54:05 | knightworx | n the rockbox subreddit, but it is impacting me now as well. The OP has a modded hdd, I do not. They were also using the latest nightly at the time, and found that it's still happening on the latest stable version, much like myself. |
| 12:54:56 | knightworx | Yes, forced charging is on. i left and came back and it had charged 10 percent with the screen off. the second I turned the screen on it started bleeding very hard |
| 12:55:42 | knightworx | On a dedicated charger plugged into a power strip, it doesnt deteriorate no matter the screen status. only when plugged into a computer. |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:25 | braewoods | knightworx: there's a huge difference right there. computers usually have a limit to how much power they provide over USB. |
| 13:00:40 | braewoods | i'd grab a power meter and see for yourself. |
| 13:00:53 | braewoods | there's usb watt meters you can find on the cheap |
| 13:01:15 | braewoods | knightworx: dedicated chargers usually can provided up to 3A at 5V. |
| 13:01:15 | knightworx | but it doesn't do it when on the default firmware. and i'm using a powered hub. |
| 13:01:28 | braewoods | well it sounds like a USB issue in any case. |
| 13:01:39 | braewoods | try some diagnostics |
| 13:02:28 | nihilazo | the rockbox wiki is just getting an error for me, says the database needs to be recovered |
| 13:02:32 | braewoods | i have usb power meters for this very reason |
| 13:02:33 | nihilazo | BDB0087 DB_RUNRECOVERY |
| 13:02:38 | braewoods | nihilazo: we know. |
| 13:02:49 | braewoods | the only person that can fix isn't around |
| 13:03:29 | nihilazo | ah ok |
| 13:03:43 | nihilazo | oh, sorry. Didn't notice somebody reported it before in the log |
| 13:03:59 | braewoods | "kalube | Hi, I'm not sure if anyone is aware, but I think the rockbox wiki is down" |
| 13:04:10 | braewoods | still on my screen here |
| 13:04:41 | braewoods | knightworx: i'd grab a power meter and see what you can learn. it will help you talk to the people that might be able to help. |
| 13:04:49 | braewoods | knightworx: if you need an example... |
| 13:05:21 | knightworx | I mean it sounds like a driver issue but i would have no way of fixing that |
| 13:05:41 | kalube | knightworx: iirc rockbox debug menu on the 5g reports battery consumption in mA, see what it spits out with charger plugged/unplugged |
| 13:06:47 | kalube | IS the powered hub connected to your PC? It's possible that it doesn't register properly and the PC limits it to 100ma which could maybe cause that |
| 13:07:07 | braewoods | https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Power-Tester-Voltage-Current-Capacity-Meter-4-20V-3A-Test-Chargers-Cables/123946852024 |
| 13:07:13 | knightworx | yes, the powered hub is connected to both my pc and an AC adapter |
| 13:07:21 | braewoods | this is what i was thinking of |
| 13:07:36 | knightworx | i bought it in order to run multiple sensors for my VR setup |
| 13:07:38 | braewoods | i've been using mine to diagnose power issues |
| 13:08:21 | kalube | braewoods: damn only one person can fix the rockbox wiki?! |
| 13:08:46 | braewoods | speachy is our admin and i only know of him having access to the necessary systems |
| 13:08:59 | knightworx | kalube: my computer sees this device as 30 different things, the main one being a keyboard, so it sounds like that may have something to do with it |
| 13:09:13 | braewoods | i know, bus factor and all. |
| 13:09:41 | braewoods | knightworx: like i said, knowing how much power is being drawn could be very useful. |
| 13:09:47 | braewoods | it would help eliminate some stuff. |
| 13:09:55 | braewoods | instead of it being stabs in the dark |
| 13:10:26 | knightworx | do you know where i could find information on what it's supposed to draw |
| 13:10:29 | kalube | knightworx: 30?? The keyboard is because rockbox defaults to being a HID device, it's very possible that your computer just doesn't allow more than 100ma draw for HID devices, although weird. Maybe try changing the input mode to storage and see if that helps |
| 13:10:45 | braewoods | knightworx: no idea but you can correlate that with your other observations |
| 13:10:51 | kalube | Look at the power draw in rockbox battery debug when the device is unplugged, then plug it in and see how it changes |
| 13:10:55 | braewoods | knightworx: how much varies with the device |
| 13:11:22 | braewoods | maybe there's a debug for it but an external meter can be useful as well |
| 13:11:43 | braewoods | knightworx: but you need some way to know the power flow |
| 13:11:54 | braewoods | under the circumstances where you know it is working |
| 13:11:59 | braewoods | but if it's the OF |
| 13:12:03 | braewoods | then i doubt it has this |
| 13:12:11 | braewoods | in which case you need the external meter |
| 13:12:26 | knightworx | i went to battery in the debug and you can visibly see it plummet when its plugged in |
| 13:12:28 | knightworx | lol |
| 13:12:39 | kalube | Oh that's definitely wrong |
| 13:12:40 | kalube | values? |
| 13:13:04 | braewoods | if true it suggests insufficient external current to supply basic needs |
| 13:13:12 | braewoods | so it has to drain the battery |
| 13:13:45 | knightworx | Ibat: fluctuation between low 70s to ~99 mA |
| 13:14:13 | knightworx | Vbat: 289 - 380 mW |
| 13:14:58 | kalube | knightworx: What's the before / after current? |
| 13:15:02 | knightworx | its constantly swapping between charging and discharging, which i would assume might have something to do with it |
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| 13:15:45 | kalube | Actually, before getting into the gory details, if you plug it straight into a USB port on your motherboard, does that fix it? How about a wall adapter for a phone? |
| 13:18:17 | knightworx | on the phone charger plugged into the wall it give me no vbat/ibat usage (says 0 for both), though with the screen on it still says discharging |
| 13:18:34 | knightworx | i know for a fact it charges with the screen off fully, because i used it last night, |
| 13:18:50 | knightworx | i have the brightness turned to like 20% btw |
| 13:19:29 | kalube | Seems like a dodgy ipod to me... When booted into stock firmware does it charge normally? |
| 13:20:36 | knightworx | how do i boot into normal firmware? My observations from before were before i installed rockbox... older ipod batteries can be sketchy so i was watching for drain and didn't notice anything weird offhand |
| 13:22:14 | kalube | Hold menu and select until the screen goes blank, then release select and keep holding menu |
| 13:22:20 | kalube | Basically, hold menu while it boots up |
| 13:22:27 | knightworx | oh ok |
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| 13:26:31 | knightworx | ...yeah absolutely no longer getting weird battery power level issues as it now says i am fully charged when on stock firmware |
| 13:26:53 | knightworx | its almost as if the power indicator in rockbox was incorrectly monitoring it? |
| 13:27:47 | braewoods | no idea |
| 13:28:25 | knightworx | well i mean at least via process of elimination it's certainly a rockbox thing |
| 13:29:11 | kalube | braewoods: would you happen to know anything about the iPod classic (6g) ? I'm hoping to get hold of a datasheet but they only seem to be available for the S5L8700X, not the S5L8702 in the classic |
| 13:29:49 | kalube | The headers in rockbox give a lot of insight, it looks like the initial porting was done entirely through reverse engineering... |
| 13:29:51 | braewoods | it's not uncommon for a single datasheet to cover multiple chips that only differ slightyl. |
| 13:30:26 | braewoods | it sounds like X is to cover all the variants using the same scheme |
| 13:30:35 | kalube | They are similar, it's mostly register addresses that vary, but the existing datasheet for the S5L8700X definitely doesn't include the S5L8702 |
| 13:30:48 | kalube | The X doesn't replace the 2 |
| 13:31:56 | braewoods | it's an apple chip it seems so there's probably no public datasheet |
| 13:32:21 | kalube | Yeah... You've confirmed my suspicions |
| 13:32:45 | kalube | Impressive that it got a rockbox port considering, it seems like a great deal of research was done to get it going |
| 13:32:52 | braewoods | apple prefers to keep all their hardware details close to the vest |
| 13:32:59 | braewoods | so |
| 13:33:08 | braewoods | part of why i don't buy ipods and such |
| 13:33:15 | braewoods | not that android is generally any better |
| 13:34:25 | kalube | I'd be prone to agree, I'm certainly not interested in Apple's newer hardware, I doubt I'd have bough a 6G if I didn't know it supported Rockbox |
| 13:34:54 | braewoods | they're basically engineered to be mindless consumer devices |
| 13:34:58 | braewoods | and we're not that market |
| 13:35:11 | kalube | True that |
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| 14:33:12 | knightworx | kalube: as an individual that has owned a 6th gen since launch and is going to install rockbox on it, i can tell you it's only been ported fairly recently, and requires a piggyback off of another, (now defunct) projects bootloader. I remember reading about how it'd never get cracked because of how it was setup, so needless to say i got excited to see that it was available and supported |
| 14:34:09 | kalube | knightworx: yeah originally it used the emcore bootloader iirc, although I thought it first got rockbox in 2012? |
| 14:34:37 | knightworx | I guess what i meant was, it took 6 years for it to happen lol |
| 14:34:50 | kalube | Ah yeah lol |
| 14:35:06 | kalube | It's a really really nice device |
| 14:37:27 | knightworx | Mine is 13 years old and just has a minor battery issue, so absolutely. |
| 14:37:57 | speachy | wiki fixed. |
| 14:38:11 | speachy | sorry it took so long; I've been installing flooring. |
| 14:38:24 | speachy | kalube: thanks for reporting it |
| 14:52:02 | speachy | unfortunately un-wedging the wiki requires root access. |
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| 15:12:57 | kalube | Ah right, that makes sense |
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| 15:23:42 | braewoods | speachy: is there anything better out there? the website seems to go down at least once a month. |
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| 15:35:04 | kalube | mediawiki is pretty good, and I guess migrating to something backed by CI (like gitlab CI) where the entire website is stored on git and supports clean builds so you aren't dependant on a root password or a particular environment |
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| 15:39:11 | nihilazo | having a wiki backed by git with the web copy built from what people commit into the git repo is a cool idea, I'm not sure how that would look implemented for rockbox |
| 15:41:01 | kalube | I've been contributing to the postmarketOS project, and their wiki has a git repo (https://gitlab.com/postmarketOS/wiki) and it seems to sync up all wiki edits to git commits, so there's always a safe copy of the wiki that just gets imported into and synced with a mediawiki instance (https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Main_Page) |
| 15:48:23 | nihilazo | that's really cool |
| 15:48:45 | nihilazo | didn't know pmos did it like that, I was thinking kinda like how gh pages works but multiple users have commit access and that is how the wiki is edited |
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| 16:01:59 | knightworx | I was incorrect. my ipod seems to be on the brink of a dead battery with the screen on the entire time it was in stock firmware as well |
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| 16:17:33 | braewoods | knightworx: replacement is usually cheap for those |
| 16:17:55 | braewoods | depends on the model though |
| 16:18:21 | nihilazo | did you say it was a 5.5 earlier? I think those are fairly easy to replace the batteries in. Not sure though |
| 16:18:48 | knightworx | yeah i have another one on the way |
| 16:19:00 | knightworx | i just am not sure if the battery drain is rockbox related or not |
| 16:19:32 | knightworx | because its situational and not indicative of a normal old battery |
| 16:20:33 | knightworx | the battery was not doing this during the time before I installed it as well, though im not 100% for certain |
| 16:21:12 | knightworx | its also VERY odd to me that someone else had the exact same battery issue as me, model and all |
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| 17:01:41 | kalube | Surely given the devices are nearing 15 years old it makes sense for multiple people with the same model to have the same issues with stuff like battery? |
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| 17:07:40 | knightworx | the battery on my 6th gen kinda skips down to 0, but not while charging with the screen on |
| 17:18:01 | braewoods | kalube: depends. they are all used and abused differently. |
| 17:18:19 | braewoods | usage is a heavy factor in when batteries die |
| 17:18:32 | braewoods | if it only say light use, the battery may have life still |
| 17:18:36 | braewoods | but of course time also ages them |
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| 19:54:59 | speachy | braewoods: there are (much) better wiki engines; the catch is migrating the data+history. |
| 19:56:05 | braewoods | speachy: i see. would you be willing to share a DB dump? I'd like to see what there is to process. |
| 19:56:15 | braewoods | maybe it's possible to port it to another wiki engine. |
| 19:56:35 | speachy | the wiki "database" is a filesystem of RCS files. |
| 19:56:49 | braewoods | Oh. It's not a proper SQL database? |
| 19:56:59 | speachy | I actually migrated it over to a git repo as an experiment a while back |
| 19:57:03 | * | braewoods sighs. |
| 19:57:19 | braewoods | I see your challenge now. |
| 19:57:46 | braewoods | Well, I think something could be done. |
| 19:58:08 | braewoods | but i'd need data samples to try it all out |
| 19:58:15 | speachy | foswiki has a ton of other stuff it does on top of of the pages too; as well as the actual markup itself (which is a straightforward PITA) there are some special processing flows that automagically happen; supposedly rockbox is using some already. |
| 19:58:28 | speachy | it goes well beyond templating |
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| 19:58:42 | braewoods | i see |
| 19:58:55 | braewoods | what else is there though? |
| 19:59:06 | braewoods | all i see is a bunch of static content embedded in special markup |
| 19:59:38 | braewoods | it seems like the wiki is suffering from bit rot too |
| 19:59:45 | braewoods | parts keep breaking |
| 19:59:58 | speachy | the old foswiki version only uses a database for "caching" −− and it's a real WTF of an implementation. |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:33 | braewoods | can you share the entire file set, whatever it is? i'd need to look at it to see what needs porting |
| 20:00:50 | braewoods | it may be easier just to make a new wiki and move the old one to archive state |
| 20:01:01 | braewoods | convert over stuff |
| 20:01:06 | speachy | there's a ton of bitrot. bringing it generally up-to-date is a pretty signifigicant undertaking. |
| 20:01:22 | braewoods | including outdated information? |
| 20:01:37 | speachy | plus it's still sort of written around an Archos-is-the-primary-target perspective. |
| 20:02:04 | braewoods | how important is the history? |
| 20:02:09 | speachy | it's important to keep. |
| 20:02:17 | braewoods | ok.. |
| 20:02:33 | braewoods | well to make a successful move i need access to the data files |
| 20:02:35 | speachy | Granted, a git repo might be sufficient |
| 20:02:38 | braewoods | read-only at least |
| 20:03:14 | braewoods | any preferences in wiki sets? |
| 20:03:19 | speachy | short of "crawl the wiki and store the HTML statically" keeping it up in read-only isn't really any different from what it is now, operationally. |
| 20:03:52 | braewoods | i've seen crux use pmwiki for years. |
| 20:03:56 | braewoods | seems to work well for them |
| 20:03:59 | braewoods | it's flat file |
| 20:04:26 | braewoods | is something like mediawiki prefered? |
| 20:04:27 | speachy | I'm personally partial to dokuwiki; since it uses flat files (or git) for pages instead of a DB, it's a lot easier to programically add files. |
| 20:04:44 | braewoods | ah |
| 20:05:41 | braewoods | we may not be able to fully port the PWs used in the old wiki |
| 20:05:59 | braewoods | due to differences in how they're stored or so |
| 20:06:11 | braewoods | it's rare for those to port 1 to 1 but it can happen |
| 20:06:28 | braewoods | just seems like every system has a different preference for how to store them |
| 20:06:35 | speachy | I'd strongly prefer something that renders static pages; so a DB/git/whetever isn't needed unless someone wants to update things. |
| 20:06:57 | braewoods | sounds like a job for a static site generator |
| 20:07:06 | speachy | we also don't need any sort of "private" or "depends on who's logged in" stuff other than administrative things. |
| 20:07:17 | braewoods | almost anyway |
| 20:07:23 | braewoods | we could move to the github page model |
| 20:07:30 | braewoods | updates are PRs to a repo |
| 20:07:32 | braewoods | or so |
| 20:07:36 | braewoods | but |
| 20:07:39 | braewoods | seems more work |
| 20:07:44 | speachy | foswiki tries to be a full CMS with roles and scripting and all sorts of other insanity. |
| 20:07:48 | braewoods | wikis don't require pre-approval |
| 20:08:40 | speachy | unfortunately we do need to maintain pre-approval, at least insofar as we need to keep spammers out. |
| 20:08:56 | braewoods | pre-approval for accounts |
| 20:08:57 | braewoods | but not for edits |
| 20:08:59 | speachy | eyep |
| 20:09:41 | speachy | most of the rest of the wiki complexity comes from being able to log in/edit from the web page directly. |
| 20:11:43 | speachy | it's definitely nicer for drive-by contributions but it perversely discourages mroe advanced users. |
| 20:12:02 | speachy | (vs a "real" editor and direct git integration, for example) |
| 20:16:09 | speachy | anyway, I'll get you a dump sometime in the next few days. need to get back to flooring so the kiddo will have a bed to sleep in tonight. |
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