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#rockbox log for 2021-03-14

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00:54:07__builtinhmm... a python port would be interesting
00:54:18__builtinwhat do you think, _bilgus_?
00:58:21braewoodsfmlatghor: if i had to guess, spectrum internet hurt him. ;p
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03:40:47braewoodsspeachy: huh so mtp supports functional modes so it can change at the protocol level
03:43:53braewoodsok, i think i see a solution
03:44:10braewoodsmtp doesn't require exclusive disk access
03:44:32braewoodsbut it should have a form of pseudo exclusive disk access when the initiator wants to perform operations
03:44:56braewoodsso we need to lock the UI mode in this situation
03:45:15braewoodswe don't need exclusive access like the MSC driver does
03:45:20 Join eevan [0] (~eevan@telesto.hot-chilli.net)
03:47:22braewoodswe can let the initiator switch functional modes if the situation allows
03:47:25braewoodsor user can do so
03:47:54braewoodsbut we would have to start in exclusive mode since that's what MTP requires
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04:09:24braewoodsspeachy: does rockbox have anything builtin for time formatting?
04:09:53braewoodsi need something to support formatting and parsing for MTP
04:09:57braewoodsif it already exists then great
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04:10:02braewoodsif not i'll have to improvise
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05:23:38braewoodsspeachy: i noticed usb is a little endian bus yet RB does not appear to do anything to ensure the multibyte units it sends over USB are in this same byte order...
05:23:56braewoodsi assume this means the usb software stack is unusable if the host cpu is big endian
05:42:55braewoodsinteresting
05:43:07braewoodsonly one port that might be impacted, if the OTG chip was supported
05:43:15braewoodsthe rest are all unfinished ports
05:43:34braewoodsor have either no OTG chips or ones with no datasheet
05:43:41braewoodsthe iriver H300 is the only one that might be impacted
05:44:01braewoodsso i'd need support for big endian as well
05:44:08braewoodsnot just the dual port problem
05:44:36braewoodsfrom researching it appears this dual USB port problem is mostly a coldfire problem
05:44:54braewoodsplus a few gigabeat F/X series
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08:01:34braewoodsspeachy: one question about usb driver buffers. MTP specifies only one party can be sending on either data line at a time
08:02:02braewoodsso conceivably i could use a single buffer to read the IO stream into since the protocol doesn't allow flows to be fixed
08:02:45braewoodsbut would this cause problems? i don't know if the usb send/recv functions would read/write to the buffer when i didn't expect them to
08:02:49braewoodslet alone finish using them
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09:16:11speachybraewoods: remember that all USB stuff is host-initiated. so if there are multiple operations in flight, it's because the host did it.
09:16:56braewoodsspeachy: so my data will sit in a buffer until the host requests it?
09:17:29speachygiven that you'll only have data in your buffer because the host asked for it, yes.
09:18:10speachyand yes, it will sit there staged until the host sends the "Read from the BULK OUT" endpoint.
09:19:29braewoodsspeachy: next question, if i call the send/recv function with a buffer larger than packet size, will the driver callback be called multiple times or what?
09:20:18speachythe low-level driver is supposed to handle that internally, only calling the upper level's callback once the transfer is completed (or failed)
09:21:12braewoodsso
09:21:31braewoodsonce all the data has been sent or the read buffer partially filled?
09:22:01braewoodsdepends how much traffic is being generated on one end
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09:56:34speachywhen the logical operation is "complete"
09:56:55speachyeach transfer has a defined size, known in advance by the sender.
09:57:40braewoodsspeachy: ok
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10:00:51braewoodsspeachy: i also noticed usb_storage allocates a relatively large buffer, 64k on many targets, usually in the IRAM
10:01:05braewoodshow much does that leave for something like MTP?
10:01:57braewoodsi'm assuming i will need to allocate my io buffers in IRAM as well
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10:07:04speachyyou could always just re-use the usb_storage buffer.
10:07:11speachyit's not like both will be using it simultaneously
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10:36:53braewoodsspeachy: that'll require refactoring
10:36:59braewoodsspeachy: it's currently private
10:37:15speachydoesn't matter right now anyway. IRAM is purely optimization (or for targets that need to DMA out of IRAM)
10:38:04braewoodsin any case i'm planning to try to use MTP for other things than just file transfers
10:38:24braewoodsi discovered you can do a lot with it
10:38:45braewoodsit has some device properties i could tie to RB internals like the RTC
10:39:00braewoodsin theory allowing the host to set the RTC
10:39:17braewoodsthat could be useful for synchronizing the RTC
10:39:54braewoodsgiven the lack of networking that seems like a useful feature
10:40:48edhelasbraewoods do you think that some optimizations can be done afterward regarding the rockbox db reindex and MTP ?
10:41:08edhelasbasically if I transfer only a few new songs, to directly add them to the internal DB
10:41:17braewoodsedhelas: possibly, i'm not sure.
10:41:26braewoodsMTP does mean we can know exactly what was changed
10:41:56braewoodsright now i'm just planning out how to roll it out
10:42:04edhelasokay :)
10:42:11braewoodsthe most promising reference implementation so far is one that was written for microcontrollers
10:42:29braewoodsclosest target to rockbox
10:42:39braewoodsthe rest run in Linux userspace
10:43:20braewoodsin any case i'll worry about file IO performance later
10:43:29braewoodsi don't know how slow it will be but
10:43:43braewoodsi'll compare it to how slow UMS is at file copying
10:43:54braewoodsbest benchmark i can think of
10:44:44braewoodsmy main concern is integrating with dircache and all
10:44:55braewoodsotherwise enumerating the files is going to be slow
10:48:13braewoodsedhelas: i'm also exploring the possibility of having a secondary mode to MTP, some basic remote control possibilities for playback
10:48:36braewoodsmay as well make the most of this work
10:48:56braewoodsit's easier to use MTP to add that extra stuff than implement something else
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11:21:56_bilgus___builtin, I think micro python could be done given initiative, assuming enough ram
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12:37:39speachy oh, here's a thorny bug just reported. fs#13272
12:37:40fs-bluebot_https://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/13272 xDuoo X3ii: sound setting for max-vol-limit is ignored (bugs, unconfirmed)
12:38:23speachyit's because the max-vol-limit expecte dB, but the hardware uses db/10. and major mismatch.
12:38:38speachynormal settings don't have a notion of decimalization.
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16:05:57__builtinwe definitely have enough ram on most, if not all targets
16:06:11__builtinminus the tiny 2 or 8MB targets
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17:24:00chrisbany way to repair the selector wheel on a sansa e200 ?
17:24:49 Join chris_s [0] (5fdf48e9@ip-95-223-72-233.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de)
17:28:39chris_sI wanted to create a repo on Github to use the current version of Rockbox as a starting point for a few more opinionated changes I'd like to keep track of and potentially offer to others, like remove boot logo/shutdown message, simplify a lot of menu entries, turn off wrap around in menus, turn off reset when Hold function is activated, change the
17:28:40chris_siPod keymap to more closely resemble the OF etc. Little details like that.
17:28:40chris_sSo, mainly things that I'm guessing aren't fit for inclusion in the main Rockbox repo (although I intend to put anything up on Gerrit that I think has potential to be included).
17:28:41DBUGEnqueued KICK chris_s
17:28:41chris_sWhat's the proper etiquette here? Is it fine to clone −−bare the current version and upload to a new Github repo from that. I would leave pretty much everything intact, expect put a new name in the Readme and mention that it's a (barely) modified version of Rockbox, licensed under the same terms. I'm assuming it's fine that all of the contributors
17:28:41chris_sand git history would still appear in the new repo?
17:28:42***Alert Mode level 1
17:28:42chris_sI first thought about forking, but that doesn't seem to make much sense when the original repository is read-only and thus doesn't accept pull requests?
17:38:13fmlatghorchris_s: So do you want your changes to be accepted, or do you just want to make a fork?
17:38:43***Alert Mode OFF
17:40:02fmlatghorIt's licensed under gplv2, so it's fine if you fork it, you just have to keep it free software and keep credits/copyright of the original project. I don't see anything wrong doing that. If it's just for your own personal preferences, you don't _have_ to share it, but I get it if you want to.
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17:40:06calebccffchris_s: forking the readonly github mirror seems like the most sensible approach. If you want to propose patches you can just add the gerrit as a new remote and push them there.
17:40:20chris_sI think a lot of these changes are unlikely to be accepted but would still be useful to a subset of users (like myself)
17:40:36fmlatghorI see.
17:40:47calebccffI'd argue that if you're planning on making changes that you think improve the UX for you and potentially others, upstream would probably want those changes
17:40:55chris_sYes, I've proposed patches in Gerrit and will continue to do so for things that have potential to be accepted
17:41:52calebccffThere's some disconnect between "I'd like to make this changes to improve the experience" <-> "I don't think these changes will be accepted upstream so I won't bother preparing / submitting patches"
17:44:53calebccffCertainly stuff like disabling scroll wrapping and modifying the iPod key maps would be nice additions. I've noticed certainly some of the nuance of navigation on the iPod classic is lost because all iPods use the same bindings (it's just, CLICKWHEEL).
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17:45:30chris_s I guess there's no reason to not *also* upload my changes to Gerrit. It just seems like decisions like the iPod keymap have been made based on having a shared experience across different players which is not something I would want to focus on in my own build
17:46:27chris_sSo I'd rather have the Menu button go up a level and return to the browser from the WPS when it'S pressed instead of going to the root menu
17:49:18calebccffchris_s: most of these things sound like they could just be added to the settings menu, you could add an API to support keymap profiles and then build in an OF vs Rockbox iPod profile and give the user an option to switch between them. Or not even go that far, and just add the option to make the menu button behave like it does in OF
17:49:42calebccffThe former sounds like it would actually be a net-gain for RB, customisable controls would be awesome to have
17:51:39chris_sI guess, although I don't know how much work that would be, plus documenting the resulting behavior could become a hassle
17:54:39calebccffForking and making hard-coded changes requires that setup your own releases and maintain them, or force users to build RB themselves, it also means if you stop maintaining it then everyone using your custom build suddenly stops being able to update and keep your customisations. In the long run making changing that can land upstream and benefit everyone is the much better approach imho, once it's done it's done and you aren't duplicating infrastructure
17:54:39calebccffthat already exists
17:55:35calebccffOf note, if you wanted to work on making those changes in a configurable way I'd totally be down to contribute, being able to customise the controls and a few of the other bits you mentioned would be really nice. But, it wouldn't be worth switching to a fork for
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18:03:23fmlatghorI tried both diska and diskb
18:03:40fmlatghorBoosted MSX2 EN
18:05:26fmlatghorthe command I sued was `diskmanipulator create 0.dsk 720`
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18:20:27chris_scalebccff: Good points. I may have been unclear before. I'm *already* using a modified build with these (and a few more) changes, so it isn't any additional work for me to publish and offer them to others. I then may or may not add to them in the future. So it's basically just a question of whether I keep that to myself or at least provide the
18:20:27chris_soption for others to see the code changes. Probably wouldn't even bother with releases but require people to build their own version, which still seems better than nothing. But maybe it's easy enough for anyone who is able to compile their own build to make these minor adjustments (or adjustments that fit their preferences) themselves.
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18:24:42fmlatghorSorry I sent this to the wrong channel
18:25:04calebccffchris_s: well, it is of course your choice. I don't really see the point in forking just to make customisations that should just be included as user configurable settings
18:37:00chris_sThe problem is that you end up adding tons of options. How do you reconcile an attempt to simplify the UI with the requirement to add more settings? There's always a tradeoff here. The advantage of an "opionated" version is that you can throw out lots of stuff.
18:59:06fmlatghorchris_s: If you want to make an opinionated version, then good. If you want to make it so others can use your changes without using a fully different version than what they're already using −− you'll also have to maintain a new version of rb. I don't know, sorry, it just seems to me like it would be better if the majority of it was available for main users of rb, and if someone wanted to, they
18:59:08fmlatghorcould use your version.
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19:04:43chris_syeah
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19:18:33chris_sthanks for your feedback!
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19:32:26speachychris_s: have a look at Igor Poretsky's fork, he's already done some of the changes you're talking about (or at least similar changes)
19:33:45speachyall else being equal I'd prefer to have stuff in the mainline than not, but as calebccff said, it's Free Software. As long as you don't claim to be "The One True RockBox(tm)" then it's all good.
19:33:57fmlatghorI think he letf speachy
19:33:59fmlatghor*left
19:34:11speachyhe'll be back, and he checks the logs too. :)
19:34:18fmlatghoroh I didn't know that
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19:37:28chris_sspeachy: ok, thanks. Indeed, I should use a proper IRC client (instead of the web version) one of these days so I don't have to check the logs incessantly... :D
19:38:06fmlatghorWeechat best client :)
19:38:55speachyat the end of the day, the more folks hacking on Rockbox the better. We have very few contributiors as it is, and I'd greatly prefer to keep everyone under the same roof.
19:40:22chris_s(y)
19:41:08speachychris_s: your changes thus far have all been pretty sane, and reasonable in intent.
19:41:13fmlatghorI would like to contribute to rockbox, but I have no idea which dap to buy.
19:41:24speachybbiaf
19:43:13fmlatghorhmm?
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19:54:32chris_sOne of the later iPods seems like a safe choice (Mini, 4g, 5g, or classic – I'm actually a fan of the monchrome displays), but I think everybody probably has their own preference and I have zero experience with any other players. The classic is supposedly a pain to get into if you want to upgrade the battery or storage.
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19:58:06calebccffcan confirm, spent 5 hours cracking open my classic. once you get the technique down it's ok though. well worth it, fantastic device
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20:02:22speachyfmlatghor: the list of supported and unstable targets on the main page is a good place to start
20:03:19speachychris_s: one thing I should point out −− have a look at https://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi
20:04:09speachywe get a good running indication of the size impact of each addition
20:04:59speachyit's not as critical as it once was but on targets with less RAM it matters.
20:06:13chris_sok, makes sense :/
20:10:14fmlatghorspeachy: yea I was trying to filter stuff out of that, but I ended up just starting over because the ones I was left with were hard to find at good prices
20:12:31chris_swhy would the binary size change after a manual update (043e8a0c) or am I reading this incorrectly?
20:17:05chris_s(and RAM as well)
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20:19:25braewoodsfmlatghor: and what are you looking for?
20:19:52braewoodsi rebuild old RB compatible players from time to time
20:20:29braewoodswaiting on a yh-925 and its parts right now since it might be better than my current players for USB development due to the hardware reset button it has
20:21:57braewoodsi still own some units i have finished my development work for
20:22:10braewoodsor just keep around to test that RB is still working
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20:22:35braewoodsthere's a risk some ports break from changes we do
20:29:01fmlatghorbraewoods: I'm looking for a cheap player. I just want to be able to play flacs and mp3s, being able to display album art would be nice, but not required.
20:29:16braewoodsfmlatghor: define cheap
20:29:24fmlatghorI don't know, what's cheap for you?
20:29:42braewoodsless than $100 with all included parts to repair to proper working order again
20:29:42fmlatghorJust not $200?
20:29:56fmlatghorbraewoods: basically
20:30:14braewoodsalbum art... you'd want a color screen if you want that
20:30:17fmlatghorwell something like that
20:30:35fmlatghorbraewoods: Well I don't need that. If it's cheaper without it, then I'd be fine with that.
20:30:55braewoodsthere's a lot of models. do you want USB OTG?
20:31:01braewoodsnot all RB targets support it
20:31:21braewoodsit enables access to the software driven stack, like the HID driver
20:31:44fmlatghorI'm still not sure why I'd want usb otg
20:31:59braewoodsthere's not much use for it right now but in time there will be
20:32:05fmlatghorFor example, I don't even know what the HID driver is
20:32:09braewoodsi'm working on extending the available driver set with things like MTP
20:32:35braewoodsHID, it lets rockbox pretend to be an input device so you can send input events to your host
20:32:37braewoodsPC
20:32:39braewoodsw/e
20:32:42braewoodsmouse, etc
20:32:52fmlatghorI think I understand somewhat.
20:32:58fmlatghorand why would you want to do this?
20:33:25braewoodsno reason really, it's not all that useful. i extended it recently to add battery reporting on Linux.
20:33:46fmlatghorw/e is whatever?
20:33:48braewoodsi plan to add some kind of remote control over USB later for supported targets
20:33:50braewoodsyea
20:34:08braewoodsif you don't care then not worth going into
20:34:12fmlatghorhad to look that one up 😅
20:34:20fmlatghorNo I don't think that's worth it for me
20:34:37fmlatghorIt sounds cool, but I don't need cool
20:34:44braewoodsthe iriver h100 series is pretty easy to service for the most part
20:34:51braewoodshas lots of outputs
20:34:55braewoodsgrayscale screen though
20:35:01braewoodsthe internal storage can be CF modded
20:35:14braewoodsit has USB UMS
20:35:20braewoodshardware usb basically
20:35:26braewoodsuses standard ports for everything
20:35:32braewoodsno proprietary dock connector
20:35:50fmlatghorsounds great
20:36:00fmlatghorI am looking for it on ebay at the moment
20:36:37braewoodsthe H120 and H140 are the common models
20:36:46braewoodsthough i've seen H120 more often
20:37:17braewoodsit has fm radio i believe
20:37:19braewoodsno RTC chip
20:37:27fmlatghorwhat about AM?
20:37:35braewoodsno rockbox ports have AM radio support
20:37:51fmlatghorWell unfortunately there aren't many good radio stations I know of, only a handful good ones
20:38:21braewoodsjust need to be careful, there's overpriced units on ebay
20:38:31fmlatghorbraewoods: That would be the steal though 🤣
20:38:40braewoodslol
20:38:49fmlatghorAM is pretty wacky though
20:39:05braewoodsi bought the yh-925 for usb development
20:39:10fmlatghorwhenever I have a radio in front of me I just browse AM
20:39:14braewoodsno radio chip in it
20:39:22braewoodsno idea why
20:39:24braewoodsbut w/e
20:39:32braewoodsdon't need it for my intended use
20:39:37fmlatghorWish I could use my calculator for music, but that would be inconvenient, even though it would be possible to make it possibel.
20:39:41fmlatghor*possible
20:42:00braewoodsfmlatghor: would you prefer to buy one of my old units that I already repaired?
20:42:10fmlatghorbraewoods: SUre
20:42:16fmlatghor*Sure
20:42:27fmlatghorHow should we do this?
20:42:38braewoodswell i'll start with what i still have
20:42:44fmlatghorAlright
20:43:09braewoodsi have 2 iriver h120s that i replaced the battery and upgraded the storage on
20:43:18braewoodsi used them for testing my new bootloader work
20:43:29braewoodsthe OF is no longer compatible with them, not that it matters
20:43:34braewoodsthey have 64GB CF cards installed
20:43:44braewoodsyou can upgrade it by replacing the card
20:43:53braewoodsbut you need special screw driver to open these
20:44:17braewoodssome torx screwdriver
20:44:39fmlatghoryea I'll just put in my microsd card if that's possible
20:44:42braewoodsoh, i guess you could buy a sansa fuze+ from amazon... they still have some new old stuck
20:44:53braewoodsyou might be able to with a CF adapter
20:45:10braewoodsjust these older players have more expandability
20:45:28fmlatghorI see (Discontinued by Manufacturer)
20:45:35braewoodshttps://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Sansa-Player-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B0041G62RY
20:45:43fmlatghorIt looks sorta like a phone
20:45:47braewoodsyou can upgrade via SD card
20:45:48speachychris_s: when stuff gets submitted together in gerrit, it only does a single build that can cover more than one individual commit
20:46:18braewoodsfmlatghor: it kinda is but you can boot from the SD card to prevent wearing out the internal flash
20:46:41braewoodsthe battery is soldered so it won't be easy to replace if it wears out
20:46:53fmlatghorah so it does support flac without rockbox, but I intend to use free software not the proprietary garbage it comes with
20:47:09speachyfmlatghor: depends on your budget ultimately, but if you want something that's available new now, you're basically limited to the xduoo x3ii, eros q/k (and clones), and (eventually) the fiio m3k too.
20:48:17braewoodsfmlatghor: i use a barrel jack to usb adapter to charge my iriver h120, same voltage just no need for the original bulky ac adapter
20:48:36braewoodsi have a fuze+
20:48:45braewoodsit's good for testing OTG
20:48:56braewoodsbut i ran into problems where i couldn't reset it once
20:49:08braewoodsmy code broke it and i couldn't even reset it
20:49:13braewoodshad to let the battery die to salvage things
20:49:50braewoodsi do not recommend the philips gogear ports
20:49:57braewoodsroyal pain to service and very cramped inside
20:50:02braewoodscompared to the iriver h120 for example
20:50:25braewoodsthe simpler battery also helps
20:50:40speachyfmlatghor: so ultimately it comes down to your budget and what you want to do with it. it really should be something you want to use, or you won't be inclined to try to hack it and make it better.
20:50:56braewoodsfmlatghor: the iriver H120 can replace the proprietary OF entirely even the bootloader
20:51:08braewoodsit's one of the few port where we can do that
20:51:19fmlatghorspeachy: true, I tend to hack on the hardware I own that I like the most
20:51:36speachyI find it very hard to recommand the fuze+ due to it's awful controls.
20:51:39braewoodsthe fuze+ isn't too hackable
20:51:58braewoodsspeachy is right, it's awkward to use but doable
20:52:08braewoodsthe iriver h120 is pretty nice even though it lacks RTC and USB OTG
20:52:08fmlatghorhmmm
20:52:22braewoodsthe YH-925 has some good things too, just no FM radio
20:52:26speachymy main criteria are native line out and controls that are easily operable without looking.
20:52:46speachyand a battery that lasts at least four hours.
20:52:52braewoodsah, not many have line out
20:52:54braewoodsthe h120 does
20:53:10braewoodsunless you consider headphones to be line out
20:53:17fmlatghorwell I use my phone now, but I really don't like my phone, so that's why I am here now
20:53:36braewoodsthe H120 is a good port, even if it lacks some features
20:53:52fmlatghorOk I will consider that one
20:54:02braewoodsjust not much to develop on it at this point
20:54:05braewoodsonly drawack lol
20:54:06speachyh1xx and h3xx are really mature, stable platforms. Just limited by the inevitable march of time.
20:54:29fmlatghorI see, so not much hacking on them, but good players
20:54:31braewoodsi largely solved the main issue those ports had
20:54:40braewoodstheir bootloaders hadn't been updated with modern fixes
20:54:59braewoodsthe only thing the H300 is missing is OTG support
20:55:08braewoodsbut it's a weird player that makes it unlikely to be implemented
20:55:23braewoodsthe OTG chip is documented but
20:55:33braewoodsit has 2 micro usb ports
20:55:43braewoodsso integrating that with the RB stack won't be easy
20:55:47braewoodsRB assumes at most one usb port
20:55:56braewoodsso that's one issue
20:56:13braewoodsthe other issues is it would mean a split hardware/software usb stack
20:56:41braewoodsnot to mention the iriver h300 is big endian whch probably means fixes to the usb stack we have
20:56:53braewoodsto ensure the byte we write over usb are little endian
20:58:40speachybraewoods: all this assumes fmlatghor is interested in hacking the USB stack.
20:58:59fmlatghorYes, the question is do I want to do that
20:59:09speachyfmlatghor: was there something specific of interest that led you to this?
20:59:18fmlatghorled me to what?
20:59:23fmlatghorthe h120?
20:59:26speachyto rockbox, that is.
20:59:34speachyand/or the desire to hack on it
21:00
21:00:42fmlatghorWhat lead me to rockbox is because a while a go I found a link to rb in a subreddit thread. My desire to hack rb is just because I like to hack the devices I own, mainly calculators and limited hardware.
21:01:10fmlatghorI actually forgot how I found it until recently when I read the backlog (in my client).
21:01:44speachypick a player that appeals to you (price +interface-wise) and as you use it, I'm sure you'll find yourself wanting to poke at or otherwise tweak things.
21:02:15speachyand if you want to undertake somethign ambitious, patches welcome. :D
21:03:07fmlatghorspeachy: That is good advice; I will have to look more at the devices you and braewoods recommended.
21:03:27fmlatghorspeachy: heh I would love to submit patches, but I don't think my code is ready to see the world.
21:05:08braewoodsfmlatghor: no prior C experience
21:05:09speachyremember you don't _have_ to contribute anything
21:05:10braewoods?
21:05:30speachyas long as you find rockbox useful
21:08:29 Quit chris_s (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
21:24:08fmlatghorbraewoods: you didn't have prior, or I don't?
21:25:36fmlatghorspeachy: well, yes, I don't have to contribute anything −− I probably won't unless something's broken and I want to fix it, or some optimising. I doubt I'll really want much new features.
21:41:46 Quit MrZeus_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
21:53:50braewoodsfmlatghor: i was asking if you'd ever used C before basically.
21:53:58braewoodsfmlatghor: since most of RB is C...
21:53:58fmlatghorbraewoods: I have
21:54:25fmlatghorI just don't think I'm very good at it and need to gather more experience.
21:54:54braewoodsi've used it for years in user space just not too familiar with embedded C
21:58:16braewoodsi have to say though it was kinda weird working on the bootloader
21:58:37braewoodswrites to special memory locations triggers hardware side effects is an odd experience
21:59:03braewoodsin userspace writes to memory don't do things like that
21:59:17braewoodsyou have to perform system calls to cause things to happen external to your program
22:00
22:22:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:34:29braewoodsfmlatghor: just look through the old targets that are stable, just note some are much rarer than others
22:34:29fmlatghorme
22:34:32fmlatghoroops
22:34:57braewoodsi managed to arrange to buy a gigabeat S series off another developer. they're super rare.
22:35:13braewoodsthere's only 2 on ebay, $120+
22:35:20braewoodsassuming that's even a reasonable price
22:35:41braewoodsit's a very featureful player though for its age.
22:35:49braewoods64MB of RAM
22:36:04braewoodsFM radio with RDS (few rockbox targets support it)
22:36:16fmlatghorI've considered getting one of the monochrome ones because of how it looks, but yea hard to find
22:36:16braewoodsetc
22:36:36braewoodsyou want monochrome?
22:36:38fmlatghorReminded me of the z80 series monochrome ticalcs
22:36:47fmlatghorI mean, kinda, but I don't need it
22:36:50braewoodsyou might like the YH-920, it's grayscale
22:36:51fmlatghorjust how I don't need album art
22:36:56fmlatghorbut I like it
22:36:59braewoodsbut has fm radio
22:37:18braewoodsthere's still plenty to innovate on the general USB stack
22:37:40braewoodsi'm currently working on MTP
22:37:49braewoodseventually i would like to see if we can add USB Audio
22:38:01braewoodsthe use for it is somewhat obvious
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