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#rockbox log for 2021-03-25

00:09:14_bilgus_braewoods, its the get address function pointer
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00:46:33fs-bluebot_Build Server message: New build round started. Revision 3a5c5edbf6, 293 builds, 10 clients.
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01:04:59fs-bluebot_Build Server message: Revision 3a5c5edbf6 result: 0 errors 2 warnings
01:19:23_bilgus_bah ok then
02:00
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02:35:15fs-bluebot_Build Server message: New build round started. Revision 3d9d2de34d, 293 builds, 10 clients.
02:35:48_bilgus_sorry gonna have to do this again tomorrow
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02:48:28fs-bluebot_Build Server message: Revision 3d9d2de34d result: All green
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10:15:37speachy_bilgus_: "broke SDL" or just that token sdl warble application build?
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11:00
11:24:33braewoodsspeachy: i've been thinking about what release of GCC we should move to after this cycle
11:24:43braewoods5 through 10 to pick from currently
11:24:53braewoodsi'll see what openwrt is using
11:25:31braewoodsgcc 7.4 currently
11:26:20braewoodsmain interest in gcc upgrades is better warnings and code optimizations
11:27:21braewoodswould be interesting if we could use host cross compilers like on debian
11:27:42braewoodsbut that removes our control of the toolchain and
11:27:53braewoodsmakes issues more distribution specific
11:27:58speachywe can't do that, at least not on arm.
11:28:10braewoodsbecause of armv4?
11:28:13speachywe build ours with exceptions disabled.
11:28:17speachyin the standard librar
11:28:19braewoodsah
11:28:33braewoodsprobably best to just build our own then
11:28:51braewoodsi would use openwrt as a litmus test of what would make a good toolchain combo
11:28:59braewoodssimilar project but focused on embedded linux
11:29:16speachythere are really only two general advantages for newer toolchins −− better diagnostics and much better LTO support.
11:29:29braewoodsand sometimes better code optimization
11:29:30speachyopenwrt is still a full "Fat" operating system.
11:29:53braewoodsthat's funny considering it runs on devices with low resources
11:29:55speachypossibly better, but even along with the optimization comes more regressions.
11:30:00braewoodsbut it uses compression to stuff more in
11:30:26braewoodsof course
11:30:40braewoodswhy i'd use an old version that is at its last bugfix release
11:30:47braewoodsminimize the regression
11:31:00speachymy intent is to push to consecutive major GCC releases; 494->5->6->7
11:31:19braewoodsso we would move to gcc 5 instead of jumping like we did with the last one?
11:31:33speachylast time we had a mixture of various versions
11:31:40braewoodsindeed
11:31:51braewoodsit would be better to not have so much differences
11:32:17speachy4.0.4 for sh, 4.5.2 for m68k, 4.4.4 for arm, 4.9.4 for mips, 4.6 for android, 4.9.4 for hosted arm & hosted mips.
11:32:45braewoodsare all our native arm targets, armv4?
11:32:57__builtinnot all
11:32:57speachyand in the 4.x series the "minor" revision was akin to what they call "major" revisions now.
11:33:11braewoodsi'm aware
11:33:15__builtinI think we have v4 to v6
11:33:17braewoodsthey went for chromium versioning model
11:33:25CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 11 hours and 10 minutes at the last flood
11:33:25*braewoods facepalms
11:33:39speachyonly the PP targets are armv4t, IIRC the rest are actually all v5.
11:33:56braewoodsand would benefit from armv5 code gen
11:34:06braewoodsi vaguely recall that benefited ARM more than x86
11:34:26speachywell, we already do use appropraite -march=... flags for each target
11:34:28braewoodsof course we'll never see an x86 DAP
11:34:31braewoods:D
11:35:06braewoodsi'm planning to leave behind my current ivy bridge laptop soon
11:35:08speachyand the 494 toolchain is built for multilib
11:35:14speachy(on arm, I mean)
11:35:31braewoodswhat good does that do us? we're not building for linux
11:36:10speachyeg optimized math libraries for armv4 vs armv5 vs armv6?
11:36:17braewoodsah
11:36:24speachy(libgcc)
11:36:28braewoodsi thought that was something we just linked in
11:36:36braewoodsstatic lib
11:37:03braewoodsthere's not much point to shared linkage on rockbox even if it was an option
11:37:50speachyon our hosted targets we're a dynamicly-linked application
11:38:09braewoodsah, i mean on our native targets where we have no real say in stuff
11:38:10speachy(and of course native SDL/sim builds use the system toolchain)
11:38:12braewoodserr
11:38:17braewoodswhere we do have say
11:38:28braewoodsanyway
11:38:39braewoodsif we had enough information we could probably replace the linux kernel too
11:38:43braewoodstoo bad
11:39:19speachyonce we get the native m3k port in and sufficiently polish it, that will be the springboard to migrate more of the x1000-based targets off of Linux
11:39:32braewoodsand give us more resources to use i imagine
11:39:41braewoodslinux is probably pretty fat
11:39:43braewoodseven on embedded
11:39:59speachyit's not Linux so much as the rest of the hibyos stack..
11:40:06braewoodsah
11:40:10speachyit's not anywhere near as optimized
11:40:26speachybut rockbox-as-an-application is also poorly optimized for that usecase too.
11:40:49braewoodsit's kinda hard to optimize that port of rockbox when the rest of stack is a steaming pile you can't replace
11:40:49speachyespecially in how it handles its internal threading
11:41:42braewoodseventually maybe the rockbox core can imitate a uboot linux kernel payload
11:41:50braewoodsand trick the bootloader into loading it that way
11:42:10braewoodsprobably the most practical vector for getting us to boot on systems that originally ran linux
11:43:18speachythere's no need for that level of complexity. All uboot needs to do is load us to the approprriate place and "execute"
11:43:34braewoodsoh, i see
11:43:50braewoodsi haven't spent much time with uboot outside of booting linux
11:43:55braewoodsso wasn't sure what the options were
11:44:08braewoodsmy dreamplug was my first exposure to uboot
11:44:10speachysince our images are highly-target-specific there's no need for devicetrees or anything like that, which is where a lot of the linux boot complexity comes from.
11:44:40braewoodsoddly enough one of the few targets you can build uboot from upstream sources
11:46:35speachypre-494, the toolchain mess was actively interfering with development. it was hard to build the toochains (especially on modern systems) and there were all sorts of hacks and workarounds in place to deal with toolchain quirks.
11:47:49speachywhat I want to try next is to enable LTO and see how that shakes out. That can potentially yield some significant code size savings.
11:50:16braewoodsspeachy: after next stable release?
11:51:47speachymore like whenever I get around to it. and it generally works on the targets I have in my rockbox box.
11:52:09braewoodsok
11:52:54speachywe're still not ready to cut a "stable" release
11:53:22speachy(though tbh I think the codebase is in overall better shape now than it was for 3.15)
11:54:18braewoodsi think targets like coldfire would benefit from a reduction in their IRAM requirements
11:55:46speachythe gcc494 bump actually made coldfire slightly worse
11:56:13speachybut consider this −− given that IRAM is static, any unused IRAM is wasted. so ideally we'd have it filled to the last byte.
11:57:03speachyif there's unused space, we can gain some slight performance by pushing additional data/code in there.
11:57:44braewoodsspeachy: technically true but having no space to expand is also a problem
11:57:55braewoodsso unused space is useful for us
11:58:29speachystaying on the edge just means we have to put additional work into optimization. that's SOP for an evolving emededded codebase.
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13:28:27braewoodsspeachy: i found a way to simplify how we declare USB string constants
13:28:34braewoodsi'll draft something up
13:28:39braewoodsit's all thanks to the newer GCC
13:28:43braewoodsutf16 string literals
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14:13:34braewoodshttps://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/c/rockbox/+/3258
14:13:39braewoodsthoughts?
14:13:50braewoodsi thought it was a QoL improvement myself
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14:17:55speachybraewoods: I like
14:18:05speachywhen was that added to GCC?
14:18:16braewoodsnot sure
14:19:16braewoodssometime after 4.4 it appears
14:19:33braewoodsbut we can now declare multiple types of string literals
14:19:39braewoodslowercase u is UTF16
14:19:43braewoodsuppercase UTF32
14:19:55braewoodsL for wide strings (pretty meaningless)
14:20:01braewoodsu8 for utf8 (not so useful)
14:20:48speachyadded for c++11 support, apparently.
14:20:56braewoodsspeachy: only downside is that while this should work...
14:21:05braewoodsand c11
14:21:14braewoodseach one consumes a bit more memory
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14:21:22braewoodsdue to string literals always being null terminated
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14:21:33braewoodsthat's why i subtract one character size
14:21:35braewoodsfrom it
14:21:38braewoodsso it won't include it
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14:21:47braewoodsquestion is though
14:21:49braewoodshm
14:22:41braewoodsjust did a test ofi t
14:22:49braewoodsdoesn't seem to get included in the data stream
14:22:53braewoodsgood to know
14:22:56speachyI would add a comment in the header showing how to use this properly.
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14:23:20braewoodsok
14:25:43speachyso does sizeof("...") include the null termination?
14:26:27braewoodsspeachy: yes it does, that's why i subtract from it
14:26:38braewoodsi've used sizeof on string literals before
14:26:48braewoodsit's their total size, including the null terminator
14:26:57braewoodsso you need to subtract one element to get the actual string length
14:27:25speachythe length field in the old descriptors includes the null, if I'm counting correction
14:27:30speachycorrectly
14:27:56braewoodsactually it doesn't
14:28:00braewoodsthey were never null terminated
14:28:08braewoodsthey used {}
14:28:14braewoodswhich does not add a null
14:28:32speachyso the extra 2 bytes are for the USB_DT_xxxx field?
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14:28:50braewoodsthe first 2 fields actually
14:29:00braewoodsthe length is the size of the WHOLE packet
14:29:04speachyok.
14:29:12braewoodsthe first 2 fields are uint8_t
14:29:15braewoodsso 2 bytes
14:29:37braewoodsi just found it kinda ass backwards
14:29:40braewoodsthe way it was done before
14:29:42braewoodsand hard to update
14:29:50braewoodsthis is a lot more maintainable
14:30:08braewoodsit should automatically adjust according to changes to the strings in the future
14:30:14speachyyep.
14:31:31braewoodsspeachy: added the comment you wanted
14:31:51braewoodsthe rest should be obvious
14:32:01braewoodsthe name even says it's for an initializer
14:32:34braewoodsthough i honestly don't see it needing to be used elsewhere outside of the usb core
14:32:48braewoodsbut i noticed how stupidly designed it was when trying to extend it
14:32:54braewoodsso i thought i'd suggest a better way to do it
14:33:49speachyand gcc 4.6 is when this stuff was added.
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14:41:56braewoodsspeachy: there's not many places this is useful but i can see this being useful for MTP
14:42:15braewoodsi'll propose other core changes as i work on MTP
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15:24:51__builtinspeachy: a little late, but the gigabeat s is armv6
15:28:11*speachy nods.
15:29:25__builtinI suspect that jumping GCCs is going to break many points of undefined behavior in the SDL plugins
15:30:01__builtin... but where's the fun in rockbox without tracing impossible bugs? :)
15:34:28braewoodsspeachy: i'll gradually work on MTP... i would like to have some basic MTP support by may
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16:58:34braewoods_bilgus_: i'm looking forward to MTP support
16:58:40braewoodsit has a lot to offer
16:59:16braewoodsit has some overlap with usb audio (in theory)
16:59:22braewoodsin terms of audio output controls
16:59:49braewoodsbut it will be much easier to deal with since it's not latency sensitive
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20:52:42dconradso I'm curious how much is known about the popping/crackling in quiet sections of songs on the Eros Q
20:53:08dconraddo all the hiby linux targets behave the same, or are they a little different?
20:53:34dconradI think I read something about the codec turning off/on at random
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20:57:23speachythe codec has no volume control, so any adjustments are done by scaling down what rockbox sends.
20:57:56speachythe codec doesn't randomly turn off/on during constant playback; only when it's idle for about a second.
20:59:56dconradI see, so this is true for when Rockbox is sending audio data, but it's close to zero so the codec must assume it can shut off?
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21:00:05dconradis that in the ballpark?
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21:02:31dconradI wonder what the original firmware is doing that rockbox isn't, because I haven't seen it happen at all there
21:02:43dconradsome sort of hidden/secret keep-alive control or something?
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21:10:13dconradthis file seems to do it particularly badly dconrad.neocities.org/assorted_files/BeginningClip_Glad%20Rags%20-%20Wonder%20Under%20-%2003%20The%20World%20is%20Waiting.flac">https://dconrad.neocities.org/assorted_files/BeginningClip_Glad%20Rags%20-%20Wonder%20Under%20-%2003%20The%20World%20is%20Waiting.flac
21:11:16dconradif its played at like -50 dB, and mostly in the right channel for some reason, it'll go womp-womp, PSHHHH, womp-womp, PSHHH, ...
21:11:58dconraddunno if I got a dud or if that's normal
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22:42:29_bilgus_Speachy braewoods I think this PP issue has happened before https://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12391
22:51:49speachyhmm.
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23:26:26_bilgus_and indeed it appears to work at HEAD after disabling the cache
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23:54:58_bilgus_https://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11863
23:55:10_bilgus_hmmm
23:55:16_bilgus_lol

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