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| 04:35:39 | braewoods | speachy: i was thinking of writing a different USB driver for basic remote control via the host |
| 04:35:54 | braewoods | speachy: kinda like reverse HID if you will |
| 04:36:08 | braewoods | proprietary for rockbox i guess |
| 04:36:29 | braewoods | MTP technically has these features but they're not really implemented by clients so |
| 04:36:35 | braewoods | this is probably better due to lower overhead |
| 04:36:52 | braewoods | i envision the possibility of the ability to build your own remote control dock or so |
| 04:37:02 | braewoods | not for the average user for sure |
| 04:37:30 | braewoods | imagine an arduino that can act as a host and instead send commands over usb |
| 05:00 |
| 05:09:16 | braewoods | here's something you don't see too often |
| 05:09:29 | braewoods | an x86 board with a public schematic |
| 05:09:30 | braewoods | https://dl.radxa.com/rockpix/docs/hw/ROCK_Pi_X_V1.3_SCH_20200814.pdf |
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| 05:58:44 | speachy | braewoods: The question I keep coming back to is: what would the utility be versus using a host-native media player? |
| 05:59:51 | speachy | (including native rockbox, I might add) |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:19 | speachy | Of course, you're free to hack on whatever you'd like. |
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| 06:12:46 | speachy | _bilgus: you use a clipzip as your primary device, correct? USB still reliable for you? |
| 06:12:52 | speachy | fs#13280 |
| 06:12:53 | fs-bluebot | https://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/13280 Clip Zip does not connect properly to PC on the first time (Windows 10) (bugs, unconfirmed) |
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| 07:11:25 | _bilgus | don't use windows but I'll try it |
| 07:13:07 | speachy | yeah, I figured as much. |
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| 07:19:30 | _bilgus | Its actually faster than this last build? |
| 07:19:42 | _bilgus | like transfers 'seem' snappier |
| 07:20:12 | _bilgus | might be something up but it looks to be doing just fine |
| 07:20:57 | _bilgus | hahah and this is the key remap one so I can use the down button for the first time in like a year |
| 07:21:15 | _bilgus | it happen to be vol up but hey |
| 07:23:51 | _bilgus | TBH it wouldn't surprise me if it were a w10 thing |
| 07:24:31 | _bilgus | one of my kids hs a w10 laptop i'll try to get a confirmation on if the zip works there |
| 07:48:47 | speachy | based on experience it's far more likely to be a physical (port/cable) issue |
| 07:57:20 | _bilgus | & clipzip has a less robust connector than the plus |
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| 08:10:39 | _bilgus | Fs#13282 sounds like someone needs an ipod |
| 08:10:40 | fs-bluebot | https://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/13282 iPod Radio Remote functionality has regressed since 3.15 stable. (bugs, unconfirmed) |
| 08:15:24 | speachy | I have a mini2g that should be covered by that, but.. no remote |
| 08:16:05 | speachy | but the patch referenced _was_ tested by its author, so.. |
| 08:17:19 | _bilgus | the volume thing just needs a bit more finesse but without a device it sounds arduous |
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| 08:35:10 | _bilgus | 13268 - Supports png format for album artwork we should support the format of their preferred music store to handle the data rationally? |
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| 08:35:49 | _bilgus | best argument I've heard so far I guess |
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| 09:04:02 | speachy | we already have PNG support in the imageviewer |
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| 09:05:29 | speachy | huh, duplicated decoders |
| 09:10:17 | edhelas | speachy duplicated code you mean ? |
| 09:11:00 | speachy | yeah, the album art code has its own jpg and bmp decoder, and there's another one in the imageviewer plugin |
| 09:37:11 | _bilgus | imageviewer already has a plugin overlay for those decoders itd probably make sense to do it that way |
| 09:40:00 | _bilgus | IOW its not really duplicated because it just gets thrown into the plugin buffer when needed itd be hard to tie that back to core being its already done |
| 09:40:55 | _bilgus | going the other direction would be nice.. loading the decoder from the imgviewer decoder ovcerlay |
| 09:41:03 | _bilgus | but that seem slow |
| 09:41:10 | _bilgus | or sounds slow I should say |
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| 10:34:37 | braewoods | speachy: indeed. it wouldn't make sense for a normal host. |
| 10:34:55 | braewoods | speachy: but it could if you were using a periphereal pretending to be a host. like an IR remote bridge or so. |
| 10:35:41 | braewoods | i've seen docks for HW specific units |
| 10:35:45 | braewoods | and i thought |
| 10:35:55 | braewoods | imagine if we could do that with a USB driver. |
| 10:36:50 | braewoods | but yea, it needs a client or so to make it useful. |
| 10:37:20 | braewoods | that can be provided by a regular host or something else even depending on your creativity. |
| 10:37:54 | braewoods | since we only have a usb device stack |
| 10:38:18 | braewoods | this is the only real way to make it work |
| 10:38:28 | braewoods | interesting |
| 10:38:36 | braewoods | arduino has usb host stuff |
| 10:39:47 | braewoods | though i would probably end up using embedded linux |
| 10:40:44 | braewoods | imagine being able to dock rockbox over usb :D |
| 10:40:50 | braewoods | lol |
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| 12:36:34 | speachy | our png decoder doesn't let us scale on the fly. :/ |
| 12:39:28 | braewoods | speachy: is there any existing RB functions to change the functional state? |
| 12:39:34 | braewoods | e.g., pause, alter volume, etc |
| 12:39:43 | braewoods | or is it all button input controlled |
| 12:42:49 | speachy | no idea.. but one can always just inject events. |
| 12:42:56 | speachy | look at audio_playback_handler() in apps/playback.c |
| 12:43:09 | braewoods | ok. |
| 12:43:32 | braewoods | i'm planning to implement essentially a serial protocol for commands to rockbox |
| 12:43:35 | braewoods | basic stuff |
| 12:43:37 | braewoods | no file IO |
| 12:43:47 | braewoods | so it can be allowed to run in the BG |
| 12:43:51 | braewoods | with minimal resource use |
| 12:44:06 | speachy | we have at least one implementation of this already, via IAP |
| 12:44:13 | braewoods | IAP? |
| 12:44:43 | speachy | and had another (that I think I removed as part of the archos stuff) that implemented the protocol used by Alpine automotive head units |
| 12:44:56 | speachy | apple's Ipod Accessory Protocol |
| 12:45:09 | braewoods | isn't that limited to ipod targets only |
| 12:45:30 | speachy | sure, but there's no inherent reason why it has to be |
| 12:45:49 | braewoods | well given what's available |
| 12:45:58 | braewoods | USB serial is the best option i think |
| 12:46:16 | braewoods | how did IAP work over? |
| 12:46:18 | speachy | stick to ACM rather than "serial" |
| 12:46:26 | braewoods | i thought it required |
| 12:46:42 | braewoods | a bunch of pins in a special connector |
| 12:47:03 | speachy | ultimately it's just a bidirectional serial protocol. (that can be tunneled over USB too) |
| 12:47:51 | braewoods | does anything implement IAP on the host side? |
| 12:47:55 | braewoods | i don't think so to my knowledge? |
| 12:48:32 | braewoods | i just assumed IAP was utterly bound to their dock connector |
| 12:48:54 | speachy | https://github.com/oandrew/ipod-gadget |
| 12:48:57 | braewoods | if there's nothing else using IAP, how would tunneling it over USB help? |
| 12:49:18 | speachy | genetic linux implementation on gadget side, includes a client app |
| 12:49:24 | speachy | https://github.com/oandrew/ipod |
| 12:50:07 | edhelas | I have a small iPod remote that can be tested with various iPod that I know if it can help |
| 12:50:36 | edhelas | iPod Mini 2G, iPod 3G, iPod Photo and iPod 4G |
| 12:50:42 | braewoods | so you're saying we could reuse the IAP in rockbox for this? |
| 12:50:46 | edhelas | *I own |
| 12:50:48 | braewoods | just make it work over USB to be more generic? |
| 12:51:29 | speachy | edhelas: can you comment on fs#13282? |
| 12:51:30 | fs-bluebot | https://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/13282 iPod Radio Remote functionality has regressed since 3.15 stable. (bugs, unconfirmed) |
| 12:52:22 | braewoods | speachy: when i think about it... adding a way to do this with other rockbox targets over their software usb stack... |
| 12:52:25 | speachy | braewoods: I'm not saying that reusing it is necessarily the CorrectAndProper(tm) approach to take, but it's worth at least looking into. |
| 12:52:27 | edhelas | I don't have the Radio Remote, the simple remote |
| 12:52:36 | braewoods | speachy: oh |
| 12:52:43 | braewoods | speachy: ok |
| 12:52:47 | edhelas | https://images.mobilefun.co.uk/graphics/productgalleries/9319/6.jpg |
| 12:52:50 | edhelas | that one |
| 12:52:59 | braewoods | speachy: it might be the best option though for compatibility with existing stuff |
| 12:53:03 | edhelas | that actually never worked :D |
| 12:53:09 | speachy | braewoods: Apply has historically been quite pissy about other devices pretending to be iPods, but since they havent' sold any non-iOS devices for quite some time now... |
| 12:53:59 | braewoods | speachy: i see... my reasoning is just to allow use to (in theory) work with existing products |
| 12:54:04 | braewoods | on non-ipod target |
| 12:54:16 | braewoods | assuming we can interface over USB |
| 12:54:16 | speachy | anyway. I keep coming back to.. if you have to tether the rockbox'd device to somethign capable of controlling it, that controller is probably a more attractive target to have play the audio to begin with. |
| 12:54:39 | speachy | the only remotely standard protocol for that sort of remote control is Apple's IAP. |
| 12:54:45 | braewoods | yea exactly |
| 12:54:59 | braewoods | i'll see if i can find a way to use it outside of ipods |
| 12:55:09 | braewoods | otherwise not much point |
| 12:55:25 | speachy | various manufacturers of audio gear haave their own protocols for controlling car audio equipment (eg cd changers etc) but that's largely obsolete these days. |
| 12:56:00 | speachy | using it outside of ipods is easy, but you'll have to have rockbox advertise the apple vid/pid and (probably) appropriate endpoints. |
| 12:56:22 | braewoods | oh, we have to use their IDs? |
| 12:56:24 | braewoods | ok... |
| 12:56:36 | braewoods | that's a problem |
| 12:57:17 | speachy | yep, that's how the widgets know they're talking to an ipod. |
| 12:57:50 | speachy | actually full IAP-over-USB would be _really_ useful, as pretty much any car audio system in the past decade will be able to control it. |
| 12:58:14 | speachy | but that requires streaming the audio out via USB (sort of like using an external DAC) rather than the internal DAC path. |
| 12:58:30 | braewoods | entirely doable |
| 12:58:37 | braewoods | and probably more useful than official usb audio |
| 12:58:40 | speachy | which has its own uses independent of IAP. |
| 12:58:54 | edhelas | one small thing, IAP is also used using the top connector on old iPods |
| 12:59:00 | edhelas | next to the jack one |
| 12:59:30 | braewoods | edhelas: we're discussing the possibility of introducing it to non-ipods but ok |
| 12:59:32 | speachy | edhelas: but when they switched to the dock connector, they still supported serial IAP over that, unless I'm quite mistaken |
| 12:59:58 | speachy | (there are a _lot_ of docks out there that worked that way...) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:13 | edhelas | speachy I see |
| 13:00:47 | speachy | anyway, rockbox supports IAPv1->v7. |
| 13:01:03 | speachy | from a protocol perspective. actual physical interfacing, no idea if any of that works |
| 13:01:56 | braewoods | speachy: yea, you're right. |
| 13:02:15 | braewoods | i think we can bridge IAP to work on other rockbox targets that connect to regular hosts |
| 13:02:30 | braewoods | provided the accessory can be connected to via regular USB |
| 13:02:57 | braewoods | this sounds like a good choice for another USB mode |
| 13:03:03 | braewoods | IAP mode |
| 13:03:28 | braewoods | it pretends to be iPod so it can work with them |
| 13:04:37 | braewoods | speachy: you're right i think, this would basically make usb audio pointless |
| 13:04:53 | speachy | yes and no; different use cases. |
| 13:04:59 | braewoods | i see |
| 13:05:09 | braewoods | ok |
| 13:05:11 | speachy | USB audio is plug-n-play on pretty much any "real" OS out there |
| 13:05:34 | speachy | and you get an instant DAC (of varying quality) |
| 13:06:07 | speachy | IAP goes in the other direction. |
| 13:06:58 | speachy | from host-based remote controls to the host acting as the DAC and UI. |
| 13:07:18 | speachy | (with the advantage of being plug-n-play on hundreds of millionsof cars) |
| 13:07:36 | speachy | (but tbh bluetooth is a much better investment of time and effort) |
| 13:08:11 | braewoods | lol |
| 13:08:16 | braewoods | ok.. |
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| 13:08:31 | braewoods | just bluetooth has a few problems of its own |
| 13:08:48 | braewoods | even if we had a BT stack right now |
| 13:09:01 | braewoods | it's limited to devices that have a BT chip we could use |
| 13:09:16 | braewoods | unless there's some USB bridge you know about |
| 13:10:29 | speachy | there are quite a few |
| 13:10:44 | braewoods | aren't they all for hosts? |
| 13:10:46 | speachy | granted we'd have to implement USB host support |
| 13:10:48 | braewoods | we aren't a USB host |
| 13:11:13 | braewoods | ok |
| 13:11:33 | speachy | no matter which way you slice it, a lot of code needs writing. |
| 13:12:44 | braewoods | to really emulate an ipod we'd still need a way to bridge to the dock connector |
| 13:13:19 | speachy | which in turn requires HW mods and/or USB host support. :) |
| 13:14:06 | braewoods | looks like it exists. |
| 13:14:07 | braewoods | LOL |
| 13:14:14 | braewoods | https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stereo-Audio-Input-iPod-iPhone-Dock-Female-30-Pin-Adapter-Connector-to-Micro-USB/264795810489 |
| 13:15:36 | braewoods | still interesting idea |
| 13:15:37 | speachy | so it's a USB DAC. |
| 13:15:47 | braewoods | i guess so |
| 13:16:20 | braewoods | we might be able to make a general subset of IAP support |
| 13:16:41 | braewoods | if we can find an easy way to bridge to the dock connector's usb interface |
| 13:16:46 | braewoods | assuming it does more than just provide power |
| 13:17:46 | braewoods | anyway it's for another day |
| 13:17:53 | braewoods | i have other projects to finish first |
| 13:17:59 | bertrik | ha! |
| 13:18:06 | braewoods | bertrik: what? |
| 13:18:22 | bertrik | "finish other projects first" is the universal excuse! |
| 13:18:29 | braewoods | but it's true |
| 13:18:55 | bertrik | I think that's why I have some many small side projects |
| 13:19:07 | bertrik | so I can avoid working on that other project |
| 13:19:26 | braewoods | i'm in no condition to work on this right now |
| 13:19:40 | braewoods | ok |
| 13:19:42 | braewoods | ll |
| 13:19:44 | braewoods | lol |
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| 13:34:37 | speachy | four more IP ranges blocked. overall bandwidth use nearly cut in half. |
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| 16:24:21 | edhelas | speachy I just found that article, might help you :) |
| 16:24:23 | edhelas | https://nigeltao.github.io/blog/2021/fastest-safest-png-decoder.html |
| 16:25:31 | speachy | well, "speed" doesn't help us much when it relies on x86 SIMD for acceleration.. :D |
| 16:25:50 | speachy | the bigger concern for us is actually RAM usage. |
| 16:28:03 | speachy | they also achieve some of that speed/efficiency at the cost of potentially much higher RAM usage. |
| 16:28:19 | edhelas | I see :D |
| 16:28:28 | edhelas | so "thanks but not thanks" |
| 16:29:00 | speachy | (that said we actually decode the entire image at once currently, which is a major problem with often-quite-large embedded artwork..) |
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| 16:42:08 | amachronic | has anybody had issues with pictureflow lately? It's hanging for me on the Fiio M3K. |
| 16:42:42 | braewoods | amachronic: native or hosted |
| 16:42:44 | speachy | Offhand I don't recall anyone reporting using it on any MIPS target. |
| 16:42:53 | amachronic | native. |
| 16:43:12 | speachy | bilgus fixed up some issues with it a few months ago |
| 16:43:19 | speachy | does it work in a sim? |
| 16:43:32 | amachronic | I'm compiling one now |
| 16:44:57 | amachronic | hmm, seems to work but it tells me "Album Not Found" |
| 16:45:37 | amachronic | on the M3K it hangs at the end of removing duplicates. |
| 16:48:07 | braewoods | not too surprising, M3K is still really experimental |
| 16:48:33 | braewoods | even so it's funny running into unresolved issues on stable ports too |
| 16:50:50 | amachronic | lol I know, I'm the author of the port. Just curious if the problem is M3K, MIPS, or more widespread (and hence worth a bug report) |
| 16:52:46 | speachy | I think I turned it on once on my X3 for giggles, it worked but was pretty useless given the awful screen. |
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| 17:03:27 | braewoods | you know what might be useful for our rockbox utility packaging? |
| 17:03:35 | braewoods | OBS support at some point |
| 17:03:50 | braewoods | we could build specific builds for major distributions |
| 17:03:54 | braewoods | using the service |
| 17:04:14 | braewoods | and have an external party host the binaries |
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| 19:05:22 | amachronic | okay confirmed there's an actual pictureflow bug here, FS #13283 |
| 19:05:23 | fs-bluebot | https://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/13283 Pictureflow segfault on targets with a portrait display orientation (bugs, unconfirmed) |
| 19:07:15 | amachronic | _bilgus: maybe you want to check it out |
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| 19:50:31 | braewoods | bluebrother: does dual boot on the gigabeat S actually work? i'm reading conflicting reports about it. |
| 19:50:40 | braewoods | the bootloader code doesn't indicate it has any support at all |
| 19:50:59 | braewoods | yet the manual says it does and even gives a method of how to trigger it |
| 19:53:23 | braewoods | weird |
| 19:53:34 | braewoods | i'm going to explore the issue with the gigabeats i've got on order |
| 19:53:50 | braewoods | but if there is a way to dual boot... it should be documented |
| 19:55:56 | braewoods | speachy: were you looking for a agptek rocker? |
| 19:56:16 | braewoods | speachy: bilgus said he had one. |
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| 20:01:39 | speachy | braewoods: technically it's mine; I sent it to him many moons ago |
| 20:02:14 | braewoods | speachy: ok, i thought you'd forgotten about it perhaps |
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| 20:02:54 | braewoods | speachy: btw thanks for your advice. IAP is a much more useful solution. |
| 20:03:10 | braewoods | adding support for the USB version of it will be useful albeit limited |
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| 20:11:01 | braewoods | speachy: if this works out it means we can do a lot with many different apple compatible docks |
| 20:11:13 | braewoods | bluetooth support indirectly to a degree |
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| 20:28:29 | braewoods | hm. interesting. |
| 20:28:39 | braewoods | i may end up building a new bootloader for these. |
| 20:29:05 | braewoods | there's unreleased improvements in the commit history |
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| 22:39:15 | braewoods | speachy: can you see the problem with this line? |
| 22:39:17 | braewoods | speachy: https://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/blob/master/rbutil/ipodpatcher/ipodpatcher.c#L1503 |
| 22:39:36 | braewoods | i was agast when i saw this |
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| 22:40:22 | speachy | the '!= 0' is superfluous? |
| 22:40:25 | braewoods | No |
| 22:40:36 | braewoods | check sizeof and the type of the argument it is using |
| 22:40:59 | braewoods | it's taking the size of a pointer |
| 22:41:11 | braewoods | easy fix? convert to an array like it should be |
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| 22:41:37 | braewoods | though given the intent |
| 22:41:44 | braewoods | probably sizeof then - 1 |
| 22:41:50 | braewoods | so the null terminator won't be included |
| 22:42:08 | speachy | it's a const array, so the compiler already does the right thing |
| 22:42:18 | braewoods | does it now... it's declared as a pointer |
| 22:42:22 | braewoods | i was getting a warning |
| 22:43:41 | braewoods | as i thought |
| 22:43:48 | braewoods | it's getting a pointer size instead |
| 22:44:47 | braewoods | speachy: https://dpaste.com/AJ849FXK7 |
| 22:44:49 | speachy | then by all means, fix the definition |
| 22:45:00 | braewoods | i get this |
| 22:45:06 | braewoods | 8 256 |
| 22:45:08 | braewoods | as my output |
| 22:45:24 | braewoods | i've spent so much time around string arrays i saw this issue immediately |
| 22:45:48 | braewoods | ok |
| 22:46:04 | speachy | still, the net result is that we compare too little, but that's realistically enough for it to function "correctly" |
| 22:46:15 | braewoods | indeed |
| 22:46:20 | braewoods | but still |
| 22:46:31 | braewoods | incorrect logic is incorrect logic |
| 23:00 |
| 23:01:29 | braewoods | https://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/c/rockbox/+/3296 |
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