#rockbox 2021-09-13

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#rockbox log for 2021-09-13

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11:51:20		Join dconrad [0] (~dconrad@208.38.228.17)
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12:19:01	dconrad	speachy: are there any old devices we support that have charge-only usb? If not, perhaps we could get rid of the "Force" option of "Charge During USB Connection"?
12:19:54	dconrad	it causes an issue with g#3780, and I'm not sure if we could just remove it or should go through the runaround of making both work
12:20:28	dconrad	or, rather devices where that option makes sense
12:20:30	speachy	I know we have devices that don't charge over USB.
12:20:48	speachy	and some devices where the only thing that does work over USB is charging
12:21:03	dconrad	ah, so we do
12:21:26	speachy	(ie due to incomplete ports rather than inherent hardware limitations)
12:29:54	dconrad	I think I understand that option better now, I'll make it "(FORCE && usb_no_host) \|\| (usb_no_host)", I think that'll allow both to work without locking up
12:30:36	dconrad	well, though maybe that comes back around to FORCE not mattering
12:50:16	speachy	yeah, that's effectively makes FORCE into a dontcare
13:00
13:17:23	dconrad	maybe this is too specific a question, but on a device without usb data capabilities, will the usb_state ever be CONFIGURED? or will it always be DEFAULT?
13:18:59	speachy	... what do the iriver 1xx/3xx do?
13:20:45	dconrad	those don't have usb data?
13:21:08	speachy	nope, they charge via a separate port and the USB port is attached to a USB-ATA bridge
13:21:28	dconrad	huh, weird, ok
13:24:18	dconrad	the charging is still "usb" though? As far as rockbox knows
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16:05:34	dconrad	it looks like I'm not able to push to gerrit today, I'm getting Connection Refused, has anything changed in the setup with the move?
16:05:53	speachy	ohhhhyeah,... hang on.
16:07:51	speachy	try again please
16:08:42	dconrad	yep, that works
16:09:11	speachy	cool. I didn't make the gerrit ssh port part of the permanent firewall rules so it got lost when I rebooted the VPS with the new network config.
16:09:33	speachy	(bad speachy)
16:09:36	dconrad	so it should be stable across reboots now?
16:09:40	speachy	yeah
16:09:42	dconrad	sweet
16:11:18	dconrad	re: iriver, it looks like it has USB charging without having the usb stack, or something like that... I can't say I can understand what something like that would want in regards to charging current set
16:12:20	dconrad	turns out I was just looking for the "FORCE" option, but in this day and age it never occurred to me charging with high current from an AC adapter wouldn't be default
16:12:53	speachy	something like that wont' care at all about charging current; it's presumably handled by external hardware...
16:14:20	dconrad	so my thought is to, in some shape or form, make higher current from an AC adapter the default option
16:14:47	dconrad	either make Force default or make Enable do what Force currently does
16:17:17	dconrad	I've tested both options on my eros, but I don't know if there's weird implications for esoteric old devices for the latter
17:00
17:24:50	braewoods	dconrad: only the h300 can charge over usb
17:25:00	braewoods	the h1xx is barrel jack only
17:25:32	dconrad	ah, good to know, the h300 was the one I looked at for an example
17:26:45	braewoods	even then it's not all that comparable since the h3xx is still hw usb only for the most part
17:27:04	braewoods	it does have a otg port but rockbox has never supported both in one target
17:27:30	braewoods	even if you did the OTG port is limited to 1.1 speeds so not much use.
17:30:06	braewoods	basic problem is they can't co-exist afaik because it was assumed only one of them would be active at a time
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17:32:57	dconrad	I mostly just wonder if making "USB Charge Enable" do what "USB Charge Force" currently does is going to cause problems
17:33:10	dconrad	i.e. ask for 500mA from an AC adapter
17:35:09	braewoods	it can't ask for 0.5mah from an ac adapter unless it has the data pins connected and it actually understands usb protocol
17:36:44	dconrad	the way we do it is we just decide if we haven't talked to a host for 10 seconds, do 500mA
17:37:10	dconrad	see firmware/usbstack/usb_core.c
17:37:14	braewoods	0.5mah is still pretty conservative and is the maximum you can ask from for usb
17:37:18	braewoods	2.0
17:37:25	braewoods	err
17:37:27	braewoods	0.5ah
17:37:29	braewoods	amps
17:37:43	speachy	the danger is if the adapter _can't_ supply 500ma; what happens?
17:37:52	braewoods	No idea.
17:37:54	dconrad	it's a wimpy adapter?
17:38:03	braewoods	But most adapters should be able to provie 0.5 amps.
17:38:13	braewoods	that's a pretty small amount to begin with.
17:38:38	speachy	the smarter ones are less likely, actually −− absent a negotiation, they're not supposed to allow more than 100ma.
17:38:42	braewoods	it's so low the only way i can think to test this is to use a low CC limit on a power supply
17:38:47	dconrad	maybe that's a good argument for keeping "Enable" and "Force" separate
17:39:10	braewoods	and see what happens
17:39:32	speachy	ie just plug it into a usb hub that's not connected to a PC; it should still supply power.
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17:43:28	TorC	I believe some cheap USB hubs don't have any current limiters, and will just wire a 2A source to four ports.
17:43:52	braewoods	i'd rather test it on a CC power supply myself
17:44:21	braewoods	those are usually designed with plenty of safeties in the event of shorts or over current
17:44:31	speachy	I'd make this something that's configurable; at least on a per-target basis, and we can whitelist targets as they get tested.
17:45:21	dconrad	is there a way to do a per-target setting default?
17:45:50	dconrad	like, a different default value depending on the target
17:45:50	speachy	#define something in the firmware/export/config/target.h ?
17:46:41	dconrad	hmm, yeah I suppose
17:47:03	speachy	yeah, there is −− in the appropriat place in setting_list (or whtever) chagne the fixed default to a value #defined somewhere, with a default #ifndef whatever, #define whatever
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17:47:24	dconrad	oh, sure that makes sense
17:48:15	speachy	#ifndef TARGET_USB_CHARGE_DEFAULT #define TARGET_USB_CHARGE_DEFAULT MODE_FORCE
17:48:34	speachy	eg
18:00
18:11:48	dconrad	so something along the lines of g#3805?
18:31:26	speachy	yep, exactly like that
18:37:02	dconrad	appears to work without issue on both eros q and m3k, with fresh installations onto the card (to ensure I'm getting the real default)
18:40:07	dconrad	not related to that patch, the m3k doesn't have current values hooked up in the debug pages though, can't see the real charge current
18:40:41	dconrad	but the requested current changes appropriately
19:00
19:16:30	speachy	how are you measuring the actual current?
19:20:04	dconrad	just the built-in measurement on the debug page
19:20:35	dconrad	it seems to be accurate enough
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