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#rockbox log for 2021-12-01

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02:13:09tertuthe v3s sounds pretty reasonable
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06:34:33speachythe v3 is actually a better choice due to a smaller BGA package.
06:35:11speachybut yeah, the v3/v3s is pretty much ideal for our needs from a feature perspective.
06:35:38speachyits predecessors (fc100/fc200) are also pretty good, just not as much cpu oomph
06:36:04speachyand of course the various ingenic parts too.
06:38:25speachyfor a cheap-ish player all we'd need is the SoC, PMIC, and the pile of necessary passives.
06:39:24speachya more expensive (and capable) player would add an external audio codec (& amp if necessary)
06:39:45PaulFertserbtw, I had a rather odd discussion with pine64 community members
06:40:18speachycase, display, buttons, etc are about the same either way, though additional components need a larger case, all else being equal.
06:40:23PaulFertserThey were telling me they're sending "suggestions to the factory". There's no ECNs, no EE review, no anything. The magic factory somehow does the design and manufacture and everything.
06:40:51speachy"factory" is often an euphamism for the engineering team
06:41:28speachy(eg $dayjob's Xilinx sales/customer reps refer to their support/engineering staff as 'the factory')
06:41:53PaulFertserThey told me they talk to pine64-the-company but that company doesn't have EEs. So it's all like some magic.
06:42:42speachyPerhaps Pine64 contracts out the actual design work to external contractors
06:42:50speachypretty common
06:43:06speachyobviously manufacturing is external too
06:43:15PaulFertserAll in all it's all apparently rather obscure to the community.
06:46:44PaulFertserSo my idea about collaborating with them on creating a real life design seems to be absolutely out of place.
07:03:54speachyno, it's not a bad idea; we've actually gone back and forth with them at least twice
07:04:46speachyit's just that what they've propsoed doesn't really map well with what we want.
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07:07:03speachythe proposal from round one was essentially the pinephone minus the phone part; analagous to what apple did with the ipod touch
07:07:44speachyround two was a hardware platform that was essentially a high-end bluetooth chipset (meant for noise-canceling headphones)
07:08:18speachywhich went too far in the other direction; ie half the RAM we'd need to still be recognizable as rockbox
07:09:02speachythere's no shortage of primarily-touch DAPs out there; that's what most high-end units out of China are these days.
07:09:50speachyand on the other end, having to kneecap our feature set wouldn't really result in something our userbase would want (vs just buying secondhand ipods or whatever)
07:10:54speachyin my mind, a "rockbox-branded" DAP needs to be operable entirely without looking at it, which means it can't rely on a touchscreen for primary interaction.
07:11:51speachythat way it can continue to utilize the one true killer feature we have over the rest of the market (to this day) −− accessibility.
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08:08:05LongclawThe proliferation of touchscreen DAPs has always confused me a bit, a touchscreen means bulk and it means you always have to look at the screen to do anything
08:09:12LongclawI guess it must sell, I can't suppose there'd be so many if they didn't
08:54:28paulcarrotyI love pine folks, they aren't so super successfull but still pushing open source producs
08:55:31atsI've occasionally wondered if Olimex could be persuaded into doing a Rockbox device - they have design experience with lots of embedded CPUs and seem to have figured out how to sell affordable dev boards...
09:02:15sporkfeels like finding some OEM with capable complete music player, putting rockbox on it and rebranding it seems more feasible
09:03:14sporksimilar how all those aigo eros q/k devices are cloned
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09:05:48sporkperhaps a little less fancy example than that though
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12:06:23tertuyeah i was going to say
12:10:54speachyspork: that would be ideal. The closest we've come is the AGPTek Rocker, but even that was little more than a few players tossed over the wall to us.
12:12:10speachyLongclaw: they're cheap to make, and obviously they sell in their target markets. Though I just don't really see the value proposition over, say, a typical smartphone.
12:12:46speachy(well, aside from the oxygen depleted gold plated optical connector audiophile market)
12:13:21Longclawgold plated fibre optics, for superior sound!
12:15:34speachyplaying over bluetooth
12:16:14speachyLongclaw: they do think they can monetize the player via "apps" and streaming services
12:49:58tertui mean i think like, my dad is a reasonable target market
12:51:03tertuwell i guess you could use a smartphone for that too but then you have to deal with all the nonsense smartphones do
12:51:16tertulike randomly killing apps for no apparent reason
12:52:01tertu(i mean for me it's mostly that i like the way rockbox works at this point)
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