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| 08:58:54 | NoTuff | hi there. i'm looking for a device currently on sale that I can put rockbox firmware on. any recommendations? |
| 08:59:29 | NoTuff | I found https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/AgptekRocker but that device doesn't seem to be for sale anymore, does it? |
| 09:00 |
| 09:01:09 | NoTuff | there is also agptek rocker v2 with model number MC15B-2nd ... but also not really for sale |
| 09:03:11 | NoTuff | and yes, I could use a "smartphone". unfortunately, google managed to break external sd card support ... https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/147619577 |
| 09:03:51 | NoTuff | so yes, there is a need for rockbox (I last used with iPod5 decades ago ... ) |
| 09:04:56 | NoTuff | ps. does rockbox support bluetooth? in the case of agptekrocker? or any other device? |
| 09:06:08 | spork | rockbox does not support bluetooth |
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| 09:32:43 | NoTuff | is it realistic that one day rockbox may support playback via bluetooth? |
| 09:36:09 | amachronic | on a hosted target, yes; on a native target, I'd say no. |
| 09:39:25 | NoTuff | amachronic, what do you mean with "hosted target"? |
| 09:40:04 | amachronic | sorry, that's the lingo for when rockbox is running on top of a host OS, usually Linux. |
| 09:40:28 | amachronic | a "native target" is when rockbox *is* the kernel and OS. |
| 09:42:15 | NoTuff | is there already such a "hosted" solution out there? |
| 09:42:43 | NoTuff | never heard of this befofre |
| 09:44:33 | amachronic | no, there's nothing at all in rockbox to deal with bluetooth yet |
| 09:45:26 | amachronic | the reason it's easier on a hosted port is purely because Linux has bluetooth drivers and a bluetooth stack (BlueZ) which we could piggyback off |
| 09:46:14 | amachronic | with the native port we'd need to write all bluetooth drivers ourselves and port a bluetooth stack / write one from scratch, which is a lot of work and hence unlikely to ever happen. |
| 09:51:19 | NoTuff | ok I understand. so another way would be to attach a "bluetooth adapter" to a rockbox device, right? |
| 09:54:24 | amachronic | yeah, if you had something which took a line-in |
| 09:55:59 | amachronic | with something like a usb adapter... you're looking at a similar problem as on-board bluetooth. |
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| 10:57:10 | SonoSooS | good (UGT) morning! |
| 10:57:40 | SonoSooS | hactar|ant: sorry for leaving so fast, I had an audio driver crash, and also fell asleep, lol |
| 10:58:43 | SonoSooS | I would give a test .firm, but it's really broken atm... there is an insane amount of lag, scrolling is ultra sluggish, DOOM runs at like... a few frames a second, and audio playback takes like half a minute to start playing one song |
| 10:59:22 | SonoSooS | I have a feeling that I made a mistake when setting up the timer driver, and it runs 8x-10x slower than it should, but I still need to investigate |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:25 | SonoSooS | this has to be an issue on my end, as the 3DS is definitely in the top 5% of supported Rockbox devices in terms of raw power |
| 11:01:13 | SonoSooS | oh yeah, and forgot to mention, but I do read back the IRC logs, so not to worry |
| 11:03:12 | SonoSooS | I also keep forgetting that most functions in header files actually have vast documentation above them, I blame VSCode for now showing them |
| 11:04:37 | SonoSooS | * s/now showing/not showing/ |
| 11:06:26 | SonoSooS | oh, also thanks gevaert\s for the logs, I did find some things in it which helped to mitigate the issues in the audio driver caused by buffering issues (backslash added to name prevent unnecessary pinging) |
| 11:07:38 | amachronic | two random suggestions: check your LCD driver (may explain general lag) and your IO (may explain why starting playback is slow) |
| 11:08:12 | SonoSooS | you're very right about the LCD driver, as that's what I have to use for audio sequencing :/ |
| 11:08:22 | amachronic | lol :) |
| 11:08:44 | SonoSooS | the audio device (CSND) has no interrupts, so I have to poll using CPU |
| 11:09:04 | amachronic | ouch |
| 11:09:28 | SonoSooS | and since I have ran out of timers (all two of them, wow!), I had to resort to HSync interrupt |
| 11:10:25 | SonoSooS | as for IO, I am using the MMU to enable caching, as the main RAM (FCRAM) is absolutely damn slow |
| 11:10:57 | SonoSooS | I have tried to arrange the memory map in such a way as to avoid RAS/CAS switching as much as possible |
| 11:12:05 | amachronic | well, rockbox is generally terrible about how it does LCD updates and I/O |
| 11:12:16 | SonoSooS | the only architectural optimizations I have left are enabling IRAM support, and spawning Core1 to make use of the two more timers, and perhaps to enable Rockbox's coprocessor support |
| 11:12:26 | SonoSooS | OH, I see what you mean now |
| 11:12:29 | amachronic | LCD is optimized very much around simple LCDs where you can transfer bits & pieces of the frame |
| 11:12:36 | amachronic | so one frame −−> many little partial updates |
| 11:12:56 | amachronic | i imagine the 3ds is oriented liek a typical gaming machine where you redraw every frame completely |
| 11:13:05 | SonoSooS | yeah uh... Rockbox doesn't support LCD rotating, and the LCD controller (besides on the very original 3DS modell) doesn't support horizontal flipping, so I have to flip the framebuffer on the CPU :D |
| 11:13:43 | SonoSooS | (the physical display is actually installed into the case rotated to the left) |
| 11:14:35 | SonoSooS | * note: don't know if Rockbox actually doesn't support LCD rotating, but I can't find anything inside of the source code regarding that, besides changing LCD stride from horizontal to vertical |
| 11:15:09 | amachronic | yes I was just thinking vertical stride might solve the rotation problem |
| 11:15:28 | amachronic | if you are memory bandwidth limited that could help a lot |
| 11:16:10 | amachronic | anyhow for I/O, almost all I/O is done one sector at a time |
| 11:16:11 | SonoSooS | vertical stride sadly doesn't help, as I still need to horizontally flip the framebuffer |
| 11:16:34 | amachronic | the only I/O that is done in big chunks is loading stuff into the audio buffer |
| 11:16:51 | SonoSooS | not here :P |
| 11:17:02 | SonoSooS | the audio is fed in chunks of ~3-8samples |
| 11:17:17 | SonoSooS | otherwise the hardware will race the CPU, and will play garbage |
| 11:17:37 | SonoSooS | but can't do greedy buffering either, otherwise Rockbox will enter a kill-restart loop on the PCM playback |
| 11:18:05 | SonoSooS | even though I have literally allocated 16Megs of RAM for the audio buffer |
| 11:19:10 | amachronic | i think you're confused about the pcm architecture, the PCM buffers you get at the HW level is in smallish chunks (around 4kb IIRC) |
| 11:19:21 | amachronic | that's what pcm_play_dma_start() gets |
| 11:19:46 | amachronic | the audio buffer stores files for decoding on demand |
| 11:19:47 | SonoSooS | you'd be correct about my confusion, as I'm doing Rockbox porting by literally inspecting the already existing drivers, and just bruteforcing things until it works |
| 11:20:01 | SonoSooS | I did find that I needed to increase the buffer size in pcm_mixer.h |
| 11:20:03 | amachronic | yes same here our docs are crap |
| 11:20:04 | SonoSooS | MIX_FRAME_SAMPLES 16384 |
| 11:20:17 | SonoSooS | the docs aren't crap, they are non-existant on the wiki |
| 11:20:27 | SonoSooS | there are docs on most functions inside of the headers |
| 11:20:37 | SonoSooS | but VSCode decides that they don't exist |
| 11:20:48 | amachronic | except when it's wrong or out of date :) |
| 11:20:49 | SonoSooS | so I keep forgetting to inspect the headers for docs |
| 11:21:03 | SonoSooS | yeah, I found that out the hard way... |
| 11:21:13 | SonoSooS | lol, speaking of out-of-date |
| 11:21:29 | SonoSooS | I managed to make Rockbox build on Windows with gcc 5.3.0 |
| 11:21:53 | SonoSooS | absolutely no issues regarding the setup, everything works fine besides of the bad performance |
| 11:23:06 | SonoSooS | I know that the wiki says to use some awfully old version, but I literally had to reverse-engineer the binary so many times, and did not find any anomalies, it compiles just fine |
| 11:23:45 | amachronic | yeah the danger is mainly in newer compilers exploiting undefined behavior and breaking things |
| 11:24:16 | SonoSooS | OH, you made me rememeber that it is indeed true, when I tried to port a project of mine from gcc 5.3.0 to gcc 8.1.0 |
| 11:24:24 | SonoSooS | it just, completely died |
| 11:24:32 | SonoSooS | and had a bajillion compiler warnings |
| 11:25:25 | SonoSooS | my guess is that that wiki page is made for users compiling Rockbox, not developers |
| 11:28:01 | amachronic | how much IRAM have you got? |
| 11:28:16 | SonoSooS | a bit less than 512k |
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| 11:28:33 | amachronic | sounds like you need to use that then |
| 11:28:50 | SonoSooS | well, technically 1Megs, but the lower half is allocated to the DSP (not in use) |
| 11:29:11 | amachronic | an audio DSP? |
| 11:29:39 | SonoSooS | the reason I'm not using the DSP is because the blob is proprietary copyrighted, and the weird shared memory architecture and the DSP pipe is currently out of my capacity to implement |
| 11:29:46 | SonoSooS | yeah, it does have an I2S line |
| 11:29:58 | amachronic | oh, I see. |
| 11:30:47 | SonoSooS | whereas the simple audio hardware is literally... pointer, length, set it to loop forever, and make a ring buffer driver to feed the memory in front of the FIFO at all times |
| 11:32:18 | amachronic | maybe you'll need to add double buffering in the PCM layer |
| 11:32:40 | SonoSooS | it is already double-buffered |
| 11:33:16 | SonoSooS | just the default buffer size (MIX_FRAME_SAMPLES 256) is way too small |
| 11:33:17 | amachronic | IIRC it'll only prepare one mix buffer at a time. |
| 11:33:27 | SonoSooS | it actually kickstarts two |
| 11:34:06 | amachronic | yes there's two buffers but one is in use by DMA at all times and we ping-pong back and forth |
| 11:34:38 | SonoSooS | ah yeah, fair enough |
| 11:34:43 | amachronic | if you had three (so two lined up for the HW to consume at any moment) then you'd have greater latency, right? |
| 11:34:54 | SonoSooS | it even says so in the comments: "Hosted targets need larger buffers for decent performance due to OS locking/scheduling overhead" |
| 11:35:01 | SonoSooS | oops, wrong comment |
| 11:35:13 | SonoSooS | "Assume HW DMA engine is available or sufficient latency exists in the PCM pathway" |
| 11:35:29 | SonoSooS | yeah, more latency |
| 11:35:35 | amachronic | with just two buffers you need to kick off DMA for the next buffer before the audio FIFO finishes playing the previous buffer |
| 11:35:48 | amachronic | in your case I'd think you don't have enough time to copy things into the ring buffer |
| 11:36:01 | amachronic | unless you had the extra latency |
| 11:36:18 | amachronic | using IRAM for PCM mix buffers will also help |
| 11:36:19 | SonoSooS | yeah, I'd need to crank up the buffer size significantly to be able to drop the HSync interrupt |
| 11:36:35 | SonoSooS | hmm |
| 11:36:48 | amachronic | a lot of our older targets use IRAM extensively to get good performance |
| 11:36:54 | amachronic | some even have an IRAM framebuffer |
| 11:37:02 | SonoSooS | how much IRAM do those targets have? |
| 11:37:12 | SonoSooS | I only have a bit less than 512k |
| 11:37:37 | amachronic | the as3525 (sansas) has 320k |
| 11:37:53 | SonoSooS | geez, I guess I'm really spoiled by the hardware then |
| 11:37:56 | amachronic | i.MX targets have 32k, 256k, or 512k depending on the model |
| 11:38:19 | SonoSooS | yeah, I have definitely majorly screwed up my driver layer thne |
| 11:38:26 | SonoSooS | * s/thne/then/ |
| 11:39:09 | SonoSooS | I highly doubt Rockbox would run this awfully on an ultra-strong(tm) hardware, while it runs just fine even on the crappiest of hardware |
| 11:39:17 | SonoSooS | so it has to be my fault |
| 11:40:02 | SonoSooS | I have plotted the timer interrupts on the top display, and I barely count 8-16, which makes me think that I have configured the dividers incorrectly |
| 11:40:19 | SonoSooS | I still need to read the docs on the timer and the ticker, but I keep forgetting |
| 11:40:45 | amachronic | and double check your macros for typos! |
| 11:40:58 | SonoSooS | I don't think I'm using any macros, except for FBPTR |
| 11:41:25 | amachronic | i mean whatever you use for register fields etc. |
| 11:41:47 | SonoSooS | ohhhhhhhhh, I'm using my drivers I made for my own kernel, and they have been extensively tested, and they work just fine |
| 11:41:53 | amachronic | i was one bit off and screwed up one of my own timers on the x1000 |
| 11:42:07 | amachronic | (in my defense the HW manual displayed the wrong bit field widths...) |
| 11:42:08 | SonoSooS | the problem is definitely in the integration layer, where I connect my drivers with Rockbox |
| 11:42:37 | SonoSooS | well, except for a compiler error inside of the CODEC init code |
| 11:43:02 | SonoSooS | CODEC init is highly timing-sensitive, so much so, that simply just using a different compiler ruins it |
| 11:43:10 | | Join Natch [0] (~natch@c-9e07225c.038-60-73746f7.bbcust.telenor.se) |
| 11:44:44 | SonoSooS | but yeah, I have made tons of typos in my interfacing code due to my reduced capacity |
| 11:44:54 | amachronic | well, good luck. I gotta go now. hopefully you'll manage to get rockbox running well on such a weird device! |
| 11:44:54 | SonoSooS | especially the MMU |
| 11:45:11 | SonoSooS | thank you, good well to you as well! |
| 11:45:27 | amachronic | thanks, bye |
| 11:45:29 | | Quit amachronic (Quit: amachronic) |
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| 12:43:11 | hactar|ant | oh hey SonoSooS |
| 12:43:53 | SonoSooS | hello |
| 12:45:05 | SonoSooS | I'll need to investigate why I'm still getting awful performance, but I can upload a test build if you really need it |
| 12:45:55 | hactar|ant | sure i'll check it out |
| 12:46:10 | SonoSooS | let me make Rockbox + codecs + DOOM |
| 12:46:13 | | Quit akaWolf (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 12:46:30 | hactar|ant | lol doom running in rockbox on 3ds |
| 12:47:17 | SonoSooS | it does work, but I can't figure out how to map the keys properly, as the 3DS has way more keys than Rockbox DOOM makes use of |
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| 12:52:32 | SonoSooS | well then, or it just data aborts |
| 12:55:12 | hactar|ant | do you have an n3ds? |
| 12:55:43 | SonoSooS | I have old3DS (Zelda), old3DS (black, broken hardware, but still works somewhat), new3DSXL (Zelda), 2DS (white-red) |
| 12:56:03 | hactar|ant | oh wow ok lol |
| 12:56:10 | hactar|ant | is performance noticeably better on n3ds? |
| 12:56:24 | SonoSooS | (I make a lot of homebrew and other things for the 3DS) |
| 12:56:30 | SonoSooS | nope |
| 12:56:44 | hactar|ant | anything i'd recognise? |
| 12:56:46 | SonoSooS | because I don't have any new3DS-specific drivers yet, like CPU frequency adjustment, or L2 cache |
| 12:57:21 | hactar|ant | i think luma allows you to force the faster cpu |
| 12:57:24 | SonoSooS | HzMod/HorizonM, TWPatch, TerraInvedit(Threedee|Droid), OCDM, idk what else |
| 12:57:27 | hactar|ant | but yeah, that obviously shouldn't be needed |
| 12:57:37 | SonoSooS | yeah, I'm not runninng Rockbox in hosted mode |
| 12:57:41 | SonoSooS | this runs baremetal |
| 12:57:53 | SonoSooS | so it's a .firm, not a .cia/.3dsx |
| 12:58:08 | hactar|ant | oh wow lol |
| 12:58:09 | hactar|ant | ok |
| 12:58:26 | SonoSooS | if I had made it hosted, it would run even worse tbh xd |
| 12:58:59 | hactar|ant | wait does that mean it requires a 3ds flashcard, cause i don't have one. i just use cfw |
| 12:59:54 | SonoSooS | you can use anything which can launch a .firm, you can use Luma's chainloader (hold START during power on until screen turns on), although personally I use fastboot3DS installed to FIRM0 |
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| 13:09:46 | | Part Chewi (I'm outta here!) |
| 13:10:54 | SonoSooS | hactar|ant: I think I have included everything? https://puu.sh/JaoMV/b901d15588.zip |
| 13:13:03 | SonoSooS | well, except the UI theme, I forgot that |
| 13:14:55 | SonoSooS | oh yeah, warning: volume adjustment doesn't work due to compiler errors, so you might 1) not have sound at all, 2) have extremely loud sound at max volume, 3) hav extremely quiet sound with no adjustment |
| 13:27:34 | hactar|ant | lol ok, i'll check it out |
| 13:28:09 | hactar|ant | wait, agb.firm? |
| 13:28:28 | SonoSooS | yeah, ignore that filename, it's complicated why my build system outputs that name |
| 13:28:48 | SonoSooS | if you look into the .firm, there is a whole .exe file (yes, .exe on 3DS) embedded into it for SDCard support |
| 13:32:05 | speachy | c |
| 13:41:31 | hactar|ant | what are the controls? |
| 13:42:24 | hactar|ant | only button that seems to do anything is A |
| 13:42:47 | SonoSooS | for DOOM: good luck. otherwise, it's really jank: LEFT/RIGHT navigate in the menu, A to enter, B to back, X and Y do something, and the rest of the controls are completely missing, as it' low-priority for me currently |
| 13:43:09 | SonoSooS | my highest priority atm is trying to figure out why the performace is so abysmal :/ |
| 13:43:17 | hactar|ant | so no way to scroll? |
| 13:43:23 | SonoSooS | LEF/RIGHT to scroll |
| 13:43:33 | hactar|ant | oh weird i swear i tried that |
| 13:43:35 | SonoSooS | no CPad driver btw, use DPAD |
| 13:43:44 | SonoSooS | also hold it, there is a huge amount of lag |
| 13:44:03 | hactar|ant | i might have just been tapping |
| 13:44:11 | SonoSooS | yeah, that doesn't work yet |
| 13:44:49 | SonoSooS | I could use HID interrupts to latch buttons until they are read out, but I'll do that after fixing the performance issue |
| 13:46:14 | hactar|ant | it seems to just give up on flac |
| 13:46:24 | hactar|ant | mp3 it took a while to start and was glitchy for 10 seconds but now is playing fine |
| 13:46:58 | SonoSooS | yeah, the PCM driver is ultra jank sadly |
| 13:47:21 | SonoSooS | due to my lack of capacity, my friend with no 3DS had to write it for me |
| 13:48:16 | SonoSooS | sometimes it glitches out because the hardware reads way too much ahead |
| 13:48:19 | hactar|ant | lol |
| 13:49:40 | hactar|ant | well this is a pretty neat start |
| 13:49:55 | SonoSooS | yeah, been working on it since almost a month or so |
| 13:50:17 | hactar|ant | unfortunately i can't really provide any technical help but i am happy to play around with builds and try to break them |
| 13:50:49 | hactar|ant | would be very cool to see this as a proper hosted homebrew |
| 13:51:01 | SonoSooS | yeah, everything is held together by faith in the compiler, so it's too easy to break |
| 13:51:04 | hactar|ant | there are a lot of possibilities with two screens but that's quite a ways down the line |
| 13:51:19 | SonoSooS | yeah, there is no way I'll make this hosted |
| 13:51:26 | SonoSooS | way too janky |
| 13:52:15 | SonoSooS | there is way too much overhead in threading |
| 13:52:31 | hactar|ant | someone could, surely |
| 13:52:48 | hactar|ant | i occasionally used my ds lite as a music player before i got an ipod |
| 13:52:49 | SonoSooS | I mean, to be fair my wording gives it no mercy |
| 13:52:59 | hactar|ant | oh man, that thing had a terrible sound chip |
| 13:53:07 | SonoSooS | it *is* possible, but for so low reward that I won't do it, I think |
| 13:53:27 | SonoSooS | ah, so I bet you used Moonshell |
| 13:53:37 | SonoSooS | also you're wrong, it wasn't that terrible |
| 13:53:54 | SonoSooS | in fact, I'm using basically the same sound engine as the DS has |
| 13:54:01 | hactar|ant | i tried moonshell but i liked dsorganize better |
| 13:54:11 | SonoSooS | ah, never used that one |
| 13:54:54 | hactar|ant | dso had a music player AND a web browser AND an irc client, what more could one want? |
| 13:55:00 | SonoSooS | but yeah, GBA had timer + PCM FIFO DMA, DS had that hardware combined with more channels into "SND", then some minor adjustments were made to the hardware, and embedded into the 3DS ("CSND") |
| 13:55:02 | hactar|ant | ereader too |
| 13:55:22 | SonoSooS | lol damn, web browser *and* IRC client |
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| 14:00:52 | SonoSooS | well okay, to be fair the 3DS indeed has a much better audio system |
| 14:01:18 | SonoSooS | the DS still had that awful speaker PWM (afaik) as from the GBA, which needed BIAS voltage, and other awful stuff |
| 14:02:50 | SonoSooS | whereas the 3DS uses a proper CODEC chip, and with the CSND hardware, it can do ~47.605kHz sample rate, or ~32.72849kHz if using the DSP (configurable to also run at that ~47kHz, but it breaks some stuff in userland) |
| 14:03:39 | SonoSooS | although the CSND hardware itself can sample up to ~1MHz before it hangs, but it's resampled to that ~47kHz before actually being sent to the DAC |
| 14:17:46 | hactar|ant | i thought the ds used a low sampling frequency |
| 14:23:45 | SonoSooS | it definitely wasn't lower than 32kHz |
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| 16:59:23 | SonoSooS | ah, it seems like the enormous file loading time is caused by prebuffering - there is like ten seconds of buffer fill before the audio starts playing |
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