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#rockbox log for 2023-03-30

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06:59:06buZzthe mcu is more powerful yeah
06:59:13buZzbut the interfaces arent really :)
06:59:37buZzif you dont need 'native ram' you dont need to use that PSRAM stuff, there's people who hooked up '30 pin simms' to it and just used that
06:59:50jssfryeah, I looked into the ESP32 a few weeks back and came to the same conclusion (re RAM availability).
07:00:12buZzlike this person did with a AVR mcu;
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07:04:05buZzthey used a 16MB simm, yet that mcu cant address it natively :)
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08:10:07speachylizzie: the SoC in the sansa devices was a full-featured SoC capable of running a real OS, needing only external DRAM.
08:10:34speachythe BT and wifi stuff was handled by a completely separate module (with its own embedded processor) that handles all the protocol and even TCP/IP stuff.
08:11:10speachyso you tell it to connect to network X, establish a TCP connection to <Whatever> and all you have to worry about is sendng data back and forth to a logical endpoint.
08:12:10speachybuZz: a large-package STM32 part will work nicely; there are cheap chinesium boards out there that have 8M or 16M DRAM onboard, with a metric f-ton of I/Os.
08:12:50speachybut just teh MCU alone costs more than an RPI Zero. :(
08:14:11speachynative rockbox (or heck, even hosted) rockbox on an RPI Zero would be ludicrously capable, it's just that the RPI Zero doesn't lend itself well towards a sane power/battery management solution.
08:15:10speachyplus of course the problem of physical enclosures. A sane enclosure is the main thing holding back an effort to build one ourselves.
08:15:30speachybecause tooling is a significant up-front cost.
08:15:49buZzif only 3d printers existed eh
08:16:22speachywould be good for a prototype only; they don't work well for fine-ish detail, which is what you'd need for decent buttons and the like.
08:16:34buZzyeah most ppl indeed dont care about finish
08:16:44buZzso 3d printed prototypes are often just 'finished product'
08:16:56speachy....not for something that you're constantly touching
08:17:04buZzcase in point; anyone making a DIY mp3 player doesnt want to make 18971283748237897232 mp3 players
08:17:30buZzspeachy: i use 3d printed object all the time, i'm not sure what you're on about :D
08:17:46buZzyou can -sand- prints too if you're so worried about surface finish :)
08:17:50speachyit's labor intensive
08:17:56buZzoh boohoo :D
08:18:05buZzand making a mp3 player yourself isnt :D
08:18:11 Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
08:18:19jssfrfwiw, I'd totally build meself a rockbox player if I could. living off second hand is going to only go well for so long
08:18:34jssfrbut I haven't found a SoC whose architecture I'm familiar enough with that I'd dare
08:18:46speachyI'm coning at this from a product that one has a realistic chance of at least breaking even, _including_ labor costs.
08:18:50jssfr(I only know STM32 well, I'm interested which SoCs you found there which would be viable, speachy)
08:19:01buZzspeachy: right, not the topic then :D
08:19:24buZzstm32f1 i guess :D if its so expensive
08:19:25speachythe current high-end STM32s (H series0 are pretty sweet.
08:19:31jssfrstm32f1 is cheap, isn't it
08:19:44jssfrthose seemed all unviable, those were those I checked because I know the F103 pretty well
08:19:45speachyF1 is quite cheap but I don't think it's going to have enough oommh to be viable.
08:20:25speachyI we'd need an F3/F4 minumim (as that would get us to, what, 192MHz vs 64/72 max for the F1)
08:21:31speachywe'd want a part with enough onboard RAM to hold a complete framebuffer, display drawing, and codec code.
08:22:28speachythe F3/F4 has much faster onboard flash than F1 too, capable of zero-wait-state operation
08:22:37buZzdoesnt rockbox have a 1bit videomode too?
08:22:47buZz1bit framebuffers take a lot less ram :)
08:23:17speachyso we could probably only leave the codec plugins (and framebuffers) loaded into IRAM, leaving the rest of the code elsewhere.
08:23:30speachy(== flash)
08:24:58buZzyeah execute-in-place, or whatever its called
08:25:08speachyjssfr: the STM32s are my favorite MCUs. they're quite a bit less ... questionably quirky than their competition, their docs are good, and bakc in the day they supplied peripheral libraries you could use instead of an all-singing IDE+HAL.
08:25:36buZzi kinda love the TM4C line from TI
08:25:54buZzkinda doubt ST has more documentation that TI, they publish -so much-
08:27:08jssfrspeachy, yes, that mirrors my experience with them exactly
08:32:38speachyas long as it's not a Motorola/Freescale/NXP part. Just thinking about those docs makes my blood pressure go up.
09:19:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:31:49rb-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 2456d28e21, 303 builds, 9 clients.
09:31:49rb-bluebot[BugFix] open_plugin didn't recognize opx shortcuts by William Wilgus
09:32:20jssfrmy hacking order goes STM32* > AT{mega,tiny}* > everything else.
09:41:23 Quit tchan (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
09:46:12_bilgus_could you do ram bank switching to expand that esp32 couldn't you?
09:52:03speachy_bilgus_: I don't think so; the limitation is in the PSRAM controller on the ESP32.
09:52:10rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 1221 seconds.
09:52:11rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 2456d28e21 result: All green
09:52:24_bilgus_ that the first build on the new server?
09:52:49_bilgus_mybe the second
09:52:56speachyand one of my builders isn't running. let me fix that.
09:56:21speachyand the outbound email didn't happen. hmm.
10:00:32speachydidn't go out to twitter either. manually invoking the script sorta worked, makes me think the hook script barfed.
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10:04:45speachyhmm, don't know wtf is going on with this. will have to monitor things.
10:06:15_bilgus_bad permissions?
10:14:02_bilgus_re the ESP32 bank switching found the ref sketch its called himem
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11:17:46speachyregardless, I don't think we're going to be able to take advantage of bank switching without a lot of pain; we assume a flat address space.
11:18:20speachypermissions are ok, the first of three scripts referenced from the commit hook ran successfully.
11:18:38speachyI manually invoked the others and they "worked"
11:19:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:22:26speachyhuh, maybe it's an SELinux permission thing. checking now.
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