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#rockbox log for 2023-05-21

00:05:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:12:17 Nick tr is now known as Nyaa (
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09:03:06_bilgusI'm looking to add another interpreted language to RB ATM I'm really leaning towards micropython
09:03:33_bilgusso starting with a plugin and I'd then like to investigate putting the VM in core and eventually move all our parsers and etc
09:13:04 Join othello7 [0] (
09:23:03braewoods_bilgus, careful it doesn't bite you. :P
09:29:47_bilgusthe dynamic memory worries me
09:30:44_bilgustheres a lua inspired squirrel that has a better ethos but I figure it'd be hard to integrate a c++ code base to anything dealing with core
09:32:56_bilgusbraewoods, I actually started with thinking about a basic interpreter but I think it'd end up pretty clunky
09:33:40braewoods_bilgus, no offense but it should be something people actually *want* to use. i can't say I know many people who would want to use BASIC today.
09:34:18braewoodsThere's a fair number of options for embeddable interpreters. There's also JS ones.
09:34:47braewoodsBut JS has its own issues. Probably slower than Lua.
09:35:30_bilguslua is not very fast and the dynamic memory is baddd
09:35:59braewoodsAren't most of these going to use dynamic memory?
09:36:19_bilgusI had hope of embedding lua but I think the ram usage just makes it a bad choice anywhere near the core
09:36:47braewoodsDid you look at duktape?
09:37:42braewoodsthey have a table for RAM usage in such an embedded situation.
09:38:35_bilgusthats higher than lua
09:38:41braewoodsOh, it is?
09:38:50braewoodsAnd micropython is better?
09:39:22_bilgusNo IDK yet
09:39:51braewoodsI see. So why would you move C code to micropython, if it were viable? It's slower, isn't it?
09:40:01_bilgussquirrel really matched my goals but integrating c++ into core seems difficult
09:40:39_bilgusmy idea would be to move all the setup bits to pre compiled bytecode
09:40:55braewoodsAnd why would we want that?
09:41:07braewoodsI'm trying to understand how this helps in an embedded device situation.
09:41:22_bilgusall these parsers menus and backend could by dynamically loaded and unloaded
09:42:19braewoodsIt sounds like what you really want is to make kernel modules.
09:42:49braewoodsAm I wrong?
09:43:11_bilgusthat probably wouldn't be a bad idea but moving to an interpreter would allow more customization
09:43:50braewoodsHow so?
09:44:31braewoodsI know C code is hard-coded once compiled but isn't byte code the same way?
09:44:58braewoodsWhere's the customization or flexibility you are referring to?
09:45:30_bilgusyou could compile to bytecode with the plugin
09:46:07_bilgusso lets say you want scrolling menus you could change the code and load it like a theme
09:46:08braewoodsI could see value if you were thinking of making something like scriptable themes.
09:46:23 Quit othello7 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
09:46:47braewoodsSo this is all in the name of UI customization?
09:47:18_bilgusmy thought is start there and move it further as it matures
09:47:53 Join othello7 [0] (
09:47:56braewoodsIt just doesn't make sense unless you are wanting to work with user scripts or target independent code.
09:48:30_bilguswe already work with user scripts
09:48:38_bilgustagnav for instance
09:49:59_bilgusthe parser can still use that old syntax or we could change it
09:50:51braewoodsI'm planning to return to rockbox stuff later this year probably. Right now I'm working on a project to get used to libusb. :3
09:52:06_bilgusI think everyone has been busy
09:52:08braewoodsI had a weird idea that might be fun to do with Rockbox, plausibly anyway. What if plugins could act as a usb driver?
09:52:18_bilgusjudging by the dearth of commits
09:52:41_bilgusUSB is already exclusive
09:53:02_bilgusso would be fine after some API massage
09:53:28braewoodsI was just considering that it might be interesting to be able to implement a plugin to allow USB control of the screen or similar.
09:53:46 Quit othello7 (Quit: othello7)
09:53:49_bilguswell you already have the multimedia buttons
09:53:51braewoodsMy current project is a program to manage USB LCD screens that use 16 bit pixels.
09:54:33_bilgusI just saw a spotify frontend screen like a bluetooth volume and track skip and shows the current songs
09:55:21braewoodswell, the idea I had was to maybe use the usb serial device to allow a client program to control the rockbox LCD screen arbitrarily.
09:56:05braewoodsIt may sound strange but adding essentially a dock mode for Rockbox might be interesting.
09:57:27braewoodsanyway i'll look into it later. it sounds best done as part of MTP honestly.
09:58:44_bilguswould you be able to tell if a device had been removed 'safely'?
09:59:32_bilgusI guess we could detect the dirty bit?
10:00:50_bilgusyeah does USB have any way to tell the device it wasn't removed safely?
10:00:58_bilgusor that it was?
10:03:31braewoodsnot that I know of?
10:03:57braewoodsMTP was designed to resolve this by eliminating raw access.
10:04:42braewoodsIt won't replace our UMS driver entirely as it's still needed sometimes for maintenance.
10:05:02braewoodsBut it could serve as a replacement for general use.
10:05:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:18:16_bilgusah ok
10:27:21braewoodsPlus it also allows for some extra stuff that aren't commonly used, like device properties that could be used to allow remote control.
10:27:54braewoodsOne use case I could see is exposing the RTC so a host utility could set the rockbox RTC.
10:28:07braewoodsThis would be much better than manually adjusting it.
10:43:31speachyPersonally I'd like to see the half-fiinshed playlist reworking finished.
10:43:50speachy...The half-finished USB reworking finished...
10:43:58speachyexFAT support
10:44:00speachyand a pony
10:44:20speachyalong those lines, anyone else tried the GPT stuff yet?
10:46:12speachyI started working on moving the internal representation of disk/flash sector and storage/volume size to 64-bit. What makes this fun is that many of the APIs use pointers so it's looking like it's going to be an all-or-nothing proposition.
10:47:07speachywe _might_ be able to make the type build-time selectable, ie don't go 64-bit on parts that only have internal storage, for example.
10:47:40speachybut anything with ATA/CF or SD will need to be 64-bit.
10:49:41speachy_bilgus: loath as I am to suggest it, if we're going to embed another interpreted language, I'd suggest micropython.
10:51:32speachybut I don't know if that would be worth it for parsers etc; might make more sense to use some sort of codegen tool that takes an IDL and spits out C.
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12:18:25speachyAlso as a general FYI, I'm going to have to take down the main VM for an OS upgrade in the near future.
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17:28:09 Quit Nyaa (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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18:54:58 Quit Piece_Maker (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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19:01:46 Join massiveH [0] (~massiveH@2600:4040:a99f:1f00:e8e5:fe5e:50b7:6ba)
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20:23:08 Quit jacobk (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
20:34:30rb-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 5dc0e4e0bc, 303 builds, 8 clients.
20:34:30rb-bluebotdisk: Support GUID Partition Tables (GPT) by Solomon Peachy
20:49:07rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 878 seconds.
20:49:09rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 5dc0e4e0bc result: 0 errors 4 warnings
20:58:38rb-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 3a8d5525ae, 303 builds, 8 clients.
20:58:38rb-bluebotpdbox: Fix warning with GCC13 by Solomon Peachy
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21:11:32rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 775 seconds.
21:11:34rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 3a8d5525ae result: 0 errors 20 warnings
21:12:06 Quit LjL (Quit: Scappò via con la paura di arrugginire. Il giornale di ieri lo dà morto arrugginito. I becchini ne raccolgono spesso fra la gente che si lascia piovere addosso.)
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22:04:40_bilgusspeacy i'm still studying it now but at the very
22:04:54_bilgusleast I intend to get a plugin running
22:05:30_bilgusre playlist I think amachronic has quite a bit of WIP concerning it ATM
22:05:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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