| 00:37:17 | | Quit m01 (Quit: Konversation terminated.) |
| 00:39:55 | | Join m01 [0] (~quassel@vps-b172b88b.vps.ovh.net) |
| 00:51:04 | | Quit massiveH (Quit: Leaving) |
| 00:54:55 | | Join IrisToriKodi [0] (~IrisToriK@116.99.38.245) |
| 00:55:21 | IrisToriKodi | Hi all! |
| 01:00 |
| 01:51:51 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:58:35 | | Quit l0x0l (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 02:00 |
| 02:46:58 | | Join PheralSparky|Rai [0] (~Shawn@67.218.67.153) |
| 02:49:37 | | Quit PheralSparky|Rai (Client Quit) |
| 02:49:49 | | Quit PheralSparky (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 02:50:01 | | Join PheralSparky|Rai [0] (~Shawn@67.218.67.153) |
| 02:51:18 | | Quit PheralSparky|Rai (Client Quit) |
| 02:51:48 | | Join PheralSparky [0] (~Shawn@user/shawn/x-4432647) |
| 03:00 |
| 03:00:45 | IrisToriKodi | yoo wassup |
| 03:51:52 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:58:11 | | Quit IrisToriKodi (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 04:00 |
| 04:10:06 | | Join lebellium [0] (~lebellium@2a01cb040610e000966d497ab8f1a749.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 05:00 |
| 05:51:55 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 05:56:41 | | Quit PheralSparky (Quit: Leaving) |
| 06:00 |
| 06:10:39 | | Join Xeha [0] (~Xeha@user/Xeha) |
| 06:59:25 | | Quit danwellby (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 07:00 |
| 07:03:23 | | Join danwellby [0] (~danwellby@cynthiajndevey.plus.com) |
| 07:51:57 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 08:00 |
| 08:16:44 | | Quit braewoods (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:16:52 | | Join braewoods_ [0] (~braewoods@user/braewoods) |
| 08:27:27 | | Join Nyaa [0] (Nyaaori@cyberia.club/meow/nyaaori) |
| 09:00 |
| 09:03:57 | | Join IrisToriKodi [0] (~IrisToriK@116.99.38.245) |
| 09:09:11 | Nyaa | the database update finally completed lol |
| 09:10:09 | Nyaa | subsequent incremental ones only drain the battery by like 37% [full => 63%] lol |
| 09:13:07 | Nyaa | assuming rockbox already accounts for battery voltage curve, the battery charges to 81% its original capacity |
| 09:31:50 | Nyaa | well, i guess that's one way of calculating percentage |
| 09:36:40 | Nyaa | why are battery percentages handled this way? inaccurate voltage readings between hardware or something? |
| 09:37:43 | Nyaa | battery chemistry, cutoff voltages, and expected discharge rate should be enough to calculate a fairly accurate percentage across batteries |
| 09:39:47 | _bilgus | eh my limited knowledge of the battery systems there is a base table that was run on new hardware to establish a curve using battery bench (https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/PluginBatteryBenchmark) |
| 09:40:19 | Nyaa | i mean, the tables method works but it's a fairly naïve way of doing it |
| 09:40:54 | _bilgus | simple beats complex but we are open source so.. Patches Welcome |
| 09:41:19 | Nyaa | not always, the table method will fail if someone swaps out a battery for a type of a different chemistry :p |
| 09:41:39 | _bilgus | there are methods of accounting for that |
| 09:42:27 | Nyaa | anyway i suspect inaccurate voltage readings are likely a problem too, will look at the tables across devices and see if they seem consistent |
| 09:42:30 | _bilgus | some even have multiple battery sizes but IIRC anyone can battery bench and apply their own curve |
| 09:42:51 | Nyaa | the sizes matter way less than the chemistry |
| 09:42:53 | _bilgus | I don't remember if that has to be compiled in (probably) |
| 09:43:52 | | Quit IrisToriKodi (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 09:44:20 | Nyaa | does the battery benchmark thing drain it at maximum power draw |
| 09:44:41 | _bilgus | if you choose to do so |
| 09:45:01 | Nyaa | i mean, for the tables that are in the code |
| 09:45:16 | _bilgus | typically as the instructions state you play continuously till it dies |
| 09:48:30 | _bilgus | choose a high load codec if you want to really draw it but I think the benches are done on the corpus available here: https://download.rockbox.org/test_files/ |
| 09:50:03 | _bilgus | basically 0db headphones connected (put in a box.. the test files get grating) and start the plugin start a endless playlist of test files return in 2-14 hours |
| 09:52:01 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 09:57:49 | _bilgus | probably geaverts could answer that he is a Rb sage |
| 09:58:18 | _bilgus | more thoroughly that is.. |
| 09:58:39 | _bilgus | gevaerts, |
| 10:00 |
| 10:21:28 | | Quit CH23_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 10:22:05 | | Join CH23_M [0] (~CH23@revspace/participant/ch23) |
| 10:51:12 | | Quit CH23_M (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 10:51:52 | | Join CH23_M [0] (~CH23@revspace/participant/ch23) |
| 11:00 |
| 11:52:03 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:00 |
| 12:06:53 | | Quit CH23_M (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 12:07:13 | | Join CH23_M [0] (~CH23@revspace/participant/ch23) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:03:50 | | Join braewoods__ [0] (~braewoods@user/braewoods) |
| 13:06:20 | | Quit braewoods_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 13:52:07 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:00 |
| 14:32:18 | | Quit _bilgus (Quit: Leaving) |
| 14:33:48 | | Join _bilgus [0] (~bilgus@162.154.213.134) |
| 15:00 |
| 15:05:15 | gevaerts | Hmm, not sure |
| 15:52:11 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:00 |
| 16:36:20 | | Quit hyvoid (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 16:47:45 | | Quit lebellium (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 16:48:48 | | Join lebellium [0] (~lebellium@2a01cb040610e000966d497ab8f1a749.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:00 |
| 17:06:41 | | Quit _bilgus (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 17:07:34 | | Join _bilgus [0] (~bilgus@162.154.213.134) |
| 17:15:43 | | Quit jacobk (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 17:16:06 | | Join tricky [0] (~tricky@2600:6c48:503f:4550::a59d) |
| 17:20:33 | | Join jacobk [0] (~quassel@47-186-106-19.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) |
| 17:25:54 | | Join speachy [0] (~speachy@pineapple.shaftnet.org) |
| 17:25:54 | | Quit speachy (Changing host) |
| 17:25:54 | | Join speachy [0] (~speachy@rockbox/developer/speachy) |
| 17:25:54 | Mode | "#rockbox +v speachy" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.libera.chat) |
| 17:26:28 | speachy | Nyaa, there's the "database tool" which can be built for each individual target. runs on the cmdline, builds up the database for the files present, and exits. |
| 17:27:00 | Nyaa | honestly that should probably be part of rockbox utility lol |
| 17:27:44 | speachy | very well might already be, but there are at least some per-target variations in the db tool. |
| 17:28:04 | Nyaa | oh maybe i'm blind and didn't see it |
| 17:28:38 | speachy | and IIRC the ipod video asic is essentially a video engine with a small CPU bolted to the side to facilitate I/O. |
| 17:31:15 | speachy | the battery curve is just a table, run the battery bench to generate the underlying data, when it finally dies you have a total runtime, divide that by 11, and take the battery level at each of those to determine what goes into the table. |
| 17:31:46 | Nyaa | yeah, also the product brief for the chip implies it can be reprogrammed to be a decoder for most file formats |
| 17:31:55 | Nyaa | https://www.curiousdog.org/Steve/assets/pdf/BCM2722_PB.pdf |
| 17:32:08 | Nyaa | [most audio file formats anyway] |
| 17:32:35 | Nyaa | [i mean, it straight up says it can be reprogrammed] |
| 17:32:36 | speachy | obviously if the battery gets swapped there's no way to tell what the new curve would be in advance. it's not like random chinesium vendors say what goes into what they sell. and if that's even trustable. |
| 17:32:57 | speachy | Sure, but the operative question is if it can be reprogrammed by anyone other than Broadcom. |
| 17:33:25 | speachy | (and/or anyone who hasn't signed eighteen kilos of legal paperwork with Broadcom) |
| 17:33:42 | | Quit jacobk (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 17:33:45 | Nyaa | hmm, given they open sourced VideoCore 4, i wonder if they would be willing to publish the VideoCore 1/2 stuff if emailed |
| 17:34:48 | Nyaa | afaik they own most of the tech used in VC01/VC02 so they should be able to publish most of the reference manual |
| 17:34:57 | | Quit Bobathan_ (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2+b1 - https://znc.in) |
| 17:35:12 | speachy | I don't think they've ever released anything on the prior generations. |
| 17:35:21 | speachy | IIRC VC4 was specifically designed so that it could be opened. |
| 17:36:11 | speachy | eg it might be effectively impossible to open the older ones without effectively breaking DRM on everything. |
| 17:36:13 | | Quit othello7 (Quit: othello7) |
| 17:36:16 | Nyaa | i mean, the only bits i don't see them being able to publish are the SD/MemoryCard segments |
| 17:37:13 | Nyaa | the primary patent for MPEG-4 expired last year so they should be able to publish a good chunk of the info on that too [unless it's verbatim copied from an mpeg-4 reference manual, then it would still be copyright so they couldn't] |
| 17:37:24 | speachy | eh, thjere's nothing special about an SD/MMC controller. |
| 17:38:02 | Nyaa | yeah but it's under patent so they can't release the documentation, they can however put "see SD specification <version>" and a list of registers |
| 17:39:03 | speachy | the actual register-level stuff in the controller is pretty limited; it's really little more than "transfer X bytes and tell me when it's done" |
| 17:39:26 | Nyaa | plus for the ipod i have a feeling those lines in the chip kinda go nowhere lol |
| 17:39:27 | speachy | the details on what to transfer are defined in the SD spec, and thus outside the realms of the ASIC. |
| 17:39:35 | Nyaa | but would be neat to add an SD mod to it |
| 17:39:45 | Nyaa | given it has the hardware potential for it |
| 17:39:57 | speachy | yecch. |
| 17:40:14 | speachy | I mean, far be it for me to tell folks what to spend their time doing |
| 17:40:20 | speachy | but ... why? |
| 17:40:26 | Nyaa | why not lol |
| 17:40:40 | speachy | far more capable hardware is already out there |
| 17:40:51 | speachy | and wouldn't require PCB hacking |
| 17:41:38 | speachy | even strictly considering DAPs, why not just use a modern player? |
| 17:42:11 | Nyaa | i mean, some people just like the aesthetic of the ipod lol |
| 17:42:27 | speachy | eg the current batch of Ingenic-based stuff can probably do MPEG4 entirely in software with plenty of oomph to spare |
| 17:43:21 | speachy | and the era where the novelty factor of "ooo, video on a 1.5" screen" mattered ended over fifteeen years ago |
| 17:43:26 | Nyaa | there wouldn't be mods to put 2TB of storage in the classic ipods otherwise |
| 17:43:29 | | Join othello7 [0] (~Thunderbi@pool-100-36-166-8.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:43:37 | | Quit othello7 (Client Quit) |
| 17:43:58 | | Join othello7 [0] (~Thunderbi@pool-100-36-166-8.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:44:27 | speachy | Replacing the spinning rust with solid state storage is win-win, directly improves the primary use case for a DAP. |
| 17:45:03 | speachy | lower power consumption, more reliable, more space, cheaper, etc. |
| 17:45:35 | speachy | but video.. especially in the era of smartphones with 6+ inch screens? |
| 17:46:08 | Nyaa | i think you missed the part where it says the chip can be used to decode _audio_ |
| 17:46:38 | Nyaa | and can function as a MIDI synthesiser |
| 17:47:17 | speachy | well, so can rockbox. and rockbox has a lot more RAM for sample storage than the VC2. |
| 17:47:35 | Nyaa | yes but power consumption |
| 17:47:51 | Nyaa | if the multimedia coprocessor uses less power to do the same task than using it would be beneficial to battery life |
| 17:48:01 | speachy | yes but several man-months of software effort. :D |
| 17:48:10 | speachy | (and that's _with_ complete docs) |
| 17:49:10 | Nyaa | eh, it couldn't hurt to email broadcom and ask if they're willing to make a public release of the documentation either way |
| 17:49:28 | speachy | if they even respond at all, I'd be shocked |
| 17:50:27 | speachy | in all seriousness, go for it. |
| 17:50:49 | Nyaa | even a partial release would help a lot with being able to use the chip for something lol |
| 17:50:50 | speachy | but it's a ton of work, and won't be generally useful outside of the ipod 5gen |
| 17:51:03 | Nyaa | not quite |
| 17:51:21 | Nyaa | idk if rockbox targets any other devices with VC02 chips but there are a few |
| 17:51:43 | speachy | nothing rockbox targets |
| 17:52:14 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:53:16 | Nyaa | gameboy advance port when /s |
| 17:53:57 | speachy | better off targeting one of those modern emulate-everything handhelds. |
| 17:53:59 | Nyaa | [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Play-Yan?useskin=vector features a VC02 chip] |
| 17:54:49 | speachy | a 3DS would make more sense. At least that has some hardware oomph. |
| 17:54:58 | speachy | (and an SD slot IIRC) |
| 17:55:12 | Nyaa | it does, yes, but it's also a kinda boring target |
| 17:55:44 | Nyaa | what about an 1st/2nd gen iphone / 1st gen ipod touch lol |
| 17:55:51 | Nyaa | both of those are trivial to boot unsigned code on |
| 17:56:05 | speachy | pure touchscreen interfaces blow. |
| 17:56:12 | Nyaa | [and also a target i have to be able to test again] |
| 17:56:17 | Nyaa | against* |
| 17:56:54 | speachy | it's also why there's zero interest in the majority of modern higher-end DAPs, which are effectively low-end android tablets with fancy audio hardware. |
| 17:57:32 | Nyaa | oh i have a kinda interesting DAP somewhere but pretty sure the specs of it are way worse than all rockbox targets lol |
| 17:57:51 | speachy | but hey, patches welcome |
| 17:58:10 | Nyaa | the non-touch modern DAPs tend to just use very lower power microcontrollers for the interface with dedicated hardware audio decoder chips as far as i've seen |
| 17:59:08 | speachy | modern non-touch DAPs are nearly universally based on very low-end purpose-built ASICs with a tiny amount of RAM and hardware decoder engines, yeah. |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:02 | Nyaa | they also tend to have worse DACs than the ipodvideo lol |
| 18:00:03 | speachy | the next step up usually uses an external DAC bolted onto a commodity microcontroller, |
| 18:00:33 | speachy | sometimes with an FPGA to do some additional audio stuff |
| 18:00:59 | speachy | after that you have the likes of the EROS Q/K and its clones |
| 18:01:33 | speachy | next step beyond that involves balanced outputs and tube amps |
| 18:01:50 | Nyaa | i think the gimmick with the DAP i have somewhere was that it has a socketed audio amp chip |
| 18:02:39 | speachy | I really question the usefulness of that, given that it's nearly guaranteed to be used with compressed audio and not-terribly-isolated power supplies. |
| 18:02:53 | speachy | but hey, whatever sells. |
| 18:03:39 | Nyaa | it was some weird chi-fi thing lol |
| 18:03:55 | | Quit lebellium (Quit: Leaving) |
| 18:04:10 | speachy | China is doing a hipster speedrun |
| 18:04:47 | speachy | interesting how the trend is back to dedicated controls instead of touchscreens for DAPs |
| 18:05:58 | speachy | "if I wanted to listen to streaming music to bluetooth headphones and use a touchscreen interface, why not just use the phone I'm already carrying?" |
| 18:07:57 | Nyaa | oh hey i found what model it was, it actually has decent audio hardware, i think the biggest issue was the software on it was trash |
| 18:07:58 | | Join jacobk [0] (~quassel@47-186-105-85.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) |
| 18:08:03 | Nyaa | it's an ACMEE MF-01 |
| 18:08:36 | Nyaa | i vaguely remember finding out what cpu it has and it was an SoC with almost no RAM |
| 18:10:11 | Nyaa | i wonder if i even still have it lol |
| 18:11:39 | Nyaa | it was more useful as a USB DAC than as a DAP lol |
| 18:34:40 | | Quit speachy (Quit: WeeChat 3.6) |
| 18:43:41 | | Join massiveH [0] (~massiveH@2600:4040:a982:c800:9f3:f3df:9d1f:64e8) |
| 18:43:45 | | Quit tricky (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 18:47:51 | | Join tchan [0] (~tchan@c-73-176-138-153.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 18:48:58 | | Join IPG [0] (~InvoxiPla@2a02:c7e:281d:7b00:31d2:4c86:85f7:c29d) |
| 19:00 |
| 19:03:51 | | Join speachy [0] (~speachy@pineapple.shaftnet.org) |
| 19:03:51 | | Quit speachy (Changing host) |
| 19:03:51 | | Join speachy [0] (~speachy@rockbox/developer/speachy) |
| 19:03:51 | Mode | "#rockbox +v speachy" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.libera.chat) |
| 19:04:28 | speachy | I think that MF-01 is based on an STM32 microcontroller. Don't recall which series offhand, but it was a but on the underpowered side. |
| 19:04:36 | speachy | (still more oomph than the ipods though!) |
| 19:04:55 | speachy | not a lot of RAM but more than those cheap shovelware players |
| 19:06:01 | speachy | there are several variants of that design out there too, IIRC. with different audio paths and screens (one with a resistive touchscreen IIRC) |
| 19:07:10 | speachy | there are two button variations; one with five on the front, and one with a dedicated rotary encoder. |
| 19:09:23 | speachy | heh, and all have crappy battery life due to those power-hungry DACs/AMPs. |
| 19:13:25 | speachy | their MF02s likely has more RAM, if only because that higher-res screen requires a far larger framebuffer. |
| 19:52:18 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:00 |
| 20:07:41 | | Quit IPG (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 20:23:40 | | Quit _bilgus (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:05:31 | | Quit speachy (Quit: WeeChat 3.6) |
| 21:07:13 | Nyaa | nice, batterybench completed, lets see if my estimate of ~81% was right |
| 21:10:26 | Nyaa | ~8 hours 40 minutes, |
| 21:52:23 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:57:41 | | Quit massiveH (Quit: Leaving) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:14:10 | | Join _bilgus [0] (~bilgus@162.154.213.134) |
| 22:25:32 | | Quit jacobk (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 22:32:26 | | Join jacobk [0] (~quassel@47-186-105-85.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) |
| 23:00 |
| 23:03:46 | Nyaa | also fwiw it looks like the stock ipod os uses a 10-90 bracket for charging |
| 23:03:53 | Nyaa | seems 4.1v is reported as 100% |
| 23:30:03 | Nyaa | time to fiddle with piezo code lol |
| 23:52:26 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).