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#rockbox log for 2023-12-01

00:20:13 Join jacobk [0] (
00:36:06 Quit massiveH (Quit: Leaving)
00:53:28 Quit jacobk (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
01:16:12_bilgusawesome :) hope it goes well
01:17:13_bilguschris_s I abandoned the list based YesNo dialog because it was nearly +1k and not that much better IMO
01:18:02_bilgusbut that led me to investigate the scrolling lines issue and its a off by one bug I do believe
01:19:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:30:32 Join jacobk [0] (~quassel@
02:12:07_bilgus g#5525
02:12:10rb-bluebotGerrit review #5525 at : [BugFix] scroll_stop_viewport_rect off by 1, yesno scrolling by William Wilgus
02:17:44tm512I'm leaning more towards the Fuze+ after waffling about on it. still worried about that report of the screen flickering while booted into rockbox, but I guess if I run into that and it actually bothers me, maybe I can try to help fix it :p
02:18:06aaabbbtm512: is that a common report or a single one?
02:18:20tm512I guess the Fuze+, a nice budget set of IEMs, and a microSD card to load up with my library will end up being my xmas gift to myself this year
02:18:25tm512or that's how I'll justify it anyway
02:18:38tm512aaabbb: one report on the forum, at least that I can find
02:18:43aaabbbdoes it have better battery life?
02:18:49aaabbbor a better dac or something?
02:19:51tm512I dunno how it compares with the other Sansa devices in the sound quality department. it seems like the Fuze+ can get a pretty ridiculous runtime as long as it's set to power off the touch controls while locked
02:20:00tm512a report on the wiki of >40hr runtime
02:20:14aaabbb>40hr playing music?
02:21:06tm512evidently. says ~43.5hr playing back ~90kbit MP3
02:21:25aaabbbwell 90kbit mp3 is pretty crappy
02:22:50tm512also says the test was done without earphones, dunno how much of a dip it'd take if they were plugged in
02:23:10tm512still pretty respectable battery life I think? compared to the other results on the SansaRuntime page
02:23:41aaabbbit might be but if something gets 30 hours with 320kbit mp3 and that gets 43 with 90kbit then it's not so impressive
02:24:53tm512I'm also expecting the original battery to have degraded a bit. that >40hr result is from 2013, within 3yr of the Fuze+ being released
02:25:45tm512I found a listing on ebay that seems to be for new old stock though, so hopefully the battery is still better than a heavily used one
02:26:09tm512worst case, I buy a replacement
02:27:02tm512seller accepts returns within 30 days too so I could possibly get it swapped for another if they still have stock
02:27:17 Join termac [0] (~termac@user/termac)
02:27:20aaabbbis it some kind of standard battery form factor?
02:27:37aaabbbor does it need to be from the manufacturer?
02:28:57tm512I dunno if it's some standard form factor, but this seller on amazon sells replacements
02:31:46aaabbbif it is a standard form factor, you can buy lfp batteries which don't wear out as fast
02:38:25 Quit termac (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
02:42:58 Join CH23_M [0] (~CH23@revspace/participant/ch23)
03:14:37 Join termac [0] (~termac@user/termac)
03:19:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:29:26rb-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 857267e9df, 304 builds, 9 clients.
03:29:27rb-bluebotx1000: Support GD5F1GQ5xExx NAND chips by Aidan MacDonald
03:43:26rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 840 seconds.
03:43:27rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 857267e9df result: All green
04:23:39 Join advcomp2019_ [0] (~advcomp20@user/advcomp2019)
04:27:27 Quit advcomp2019 (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
04:30:05 Quit termac (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:31:42 Join termac [0] (~termac@user/termac)
05:19:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:35:13 Quit termac (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
06:19:09 Join enyc [0] (~enyc@user/enyc)
06:21:56*enyc recalls RockBox-doom and all that heh
06:47:35buZzisnt that still in rockbox?
06:48:08buZzi guess that that 'gay-ipod' still hasnt gotten a rockbox port, right? :D
06:48:45buZzthe 'tangara'
06:49:42buZzseems they removed all evidence it was ever called 'gay-ipod' , lol
07:19:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:23:36_bilgustm512, the fuze plus was my truck mp3 player for years the battery life was never great but pretty sure it was a refurb or factory second or something
08:24:14_bilgusbut it was a very good sounding player and the cpu + ram make it snappy
08:26:03_bilgustouchscreen was always a pain but twaeking the sensitivity and a few other settings (touch target size IIRC) made it usable
08:26:34_bilgusI did note having a ground loop make the touch real wonky
08:28:14_bilgushad this nice little box with an isolation transformer and a 12v to usb adapter that wired to the truck to use car mode and it served me well
08:29:43_bilgusbuZz, the internets r 4EvA
08:30:10_bilgussounds happy garish colors?
09:13:45 Join WilliamC [0] (
09:14:31 Quit WilliamC2 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
09:19:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:51:41speachymy main beef with the fuze+ (well, other than the wonky touch stuff) was a lack of a true line out. made a noticable/audible difference.
11:19:13***No seen item changed, no save performed.
11:56:47 Join othello7 [0] (
12:04:28enyc²/join #3electronics
12:04:31enychrrm, oops
12:20:46 Quit jacobk (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
13:01:35 Join davisr [0] (~davisr@fsf/emeritus/davisr)
13:11:17 Join lebellium [0] (
13:19:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:53:45rb-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 8347203dc6, 304 builds, 10 clients.
13:53:45rb-bluebot[BugFix] scroll_stop_viewport_rect off by 1 by William Wilgus
14:03:40rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 598 seconds.
14:03:42rb-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 8347203dc6 result: All green
14:07:41_bilgusthat was fassst
14:09:12speachyonly one file changed, so ccache did its thing. :)
14:21:05_bilgushave a new bug i think I just found
14:21:24_bilgusclear_viewport and clear_display appear to call each other
14:24:56_bilgushmm maybe that is by design? but I can't see how it would work
14:25:59speachythe vp pointer for each might not be the same
14:28:51speachydefault vp might not be the "root" vp. but if it is, it's ... gonna be infinite.
14:29:07_bilgusbut its set in clear_display as such lcd_current_viewport = &default_vp; but its not in a death loop so clearly I'm missing something
14:29:34speachydefault_vp might not be the "root" vp.
14:30:19speachyroot meaning points at the raw framebuffer.
14:30:21 Quit sch (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
14:33:13_bilgusyeah I thought about that but I think the only thing saving it is that the default vp has the buffer set to NULL
14:33:29_bilgusthis code path is never run
14:34:32_bilgusI bet if I set that default to the actual frame buffer it will explode and there is no other case where it works as intended
14:35:41_bilgusand I bet at the time I wrote the frame buffer rewrite it was already disable in such a manner as the design carried through in the rewrite
14:35:56_bilgusbut i'll have to look back
14:36:49_bilgusa latent bug I guess
14:40:53_bilgusno still appears to run fine maybe it really is different in that particular case
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15:22:31 Quit braewoods__ (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
15:22:38 Join braewoods_ [0] (~braewoods@user/braewoods)
15:36:06Trzyzet@termac the noise problem happens because most mobile players has real S/N ratio between 80-85dB. When you are using a monitors with such sensitivity like Shures or other IEMs there will be noise. I'm afraid there is nothing which can be fixed, you can always use more power hungry headphones but it's going around that problem, not actually solving it
15:37:34TrzyzetAlso the noise is usually recognisable only with total silence, not during playing the music so I would and I am just living with it
15:58:02_bilgussomeone had similar issues and for a particular album they made silence tracks to play and made it a single song
15:58:50_bilgusbut I seem to recall someone making a patch that fed an intermediate track between songs
16:00:03_bilgusa small commercial sounds like the start of those prison sansas
16:15:02 Join jacobk [0] (
17:19:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:34:05 Quit aaabbb (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
17:34:13 Join aaabbb [0] (
17:44:31 Join jacobk [0] (~quassel@
18:01:40 Quit lebellium (Quit: Leaving)
18:05:30 Join Moriar [0] (
18:58:31 Join massiveH [0] (~massiveH@2600:4040:a982:c800:9117:ed9f:267:4a62)
19:19:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:40:26 Quit othello7 (Quit: othello7)
21:40:46 Join othello7 [0] (
21:41:53 Quit davisr (Remote host closed the connection)
22:14:00tm512_bilgus: yeah touch controls aren't something I'm thrilled about dealing with on the Fuze+. I dunno if it's bad enough to justify going for an e200 or original Fuze
22:15:24tm512occasionally I'd output to pretty decent headphones (like maybe even my HD600 if the Fuze+ has the oomph to drive them), so if it has decent sound quality that might be worth dealing with the touch nonsense
22:34:53 Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:41:05tm512would be kinda surprised if the HD600 couldn't be driven to a listenable volume, like they've done fine with my phone and my PC's onboard audio back when I was using plain ALSA and switching everything over to my amp was a hassle
22:42:30tm512well, switching software over to my DAC, that is. I guess I probably could've taken line out from my onboard audio and put it through my amp
22:47:50 Join JanC [0] (~janc@user/janc)
22:51:11_bilgusfor the price difference it probably is
22:51:44_bilgusthe fuzev2 is nice kit but the battery is a much easier replacement
22:52:11_bilgusthe headphone connector is annoyingly plsced imo but it is pretty well mounted
22:52:38_bilgusfuzev2 has a metal case IIRC but both have plastic screens
22:53:03_bilgussorry battery in fuze+ is easier to replace
22:54:30_bilgusthe xduoo would be up you alley too
22:55:01_bilgusx3 has a line out assuming you can find them
22:56:41tm512it'd be like $12 more to get that new old stock Fuze+ compared to the used e200R I was looking at. I see an e250R for $24, though it seems like it has "REFURB" stamped onto the metal backing
22:56:54tm512well, "RE URB" with some of the letters rotated
22:56:58tm512it looks ugly
22:57:12tm512this one:
22:58:09tm512xDuoo sounds like it's more of a hifi player, though I guess I'd have to check pricing
22:59:23tm512I do not need 24bit @ 192KHz, so I don't want to pay for that. as far as I can tell it's just snake oil unless you're producing music (then high sample rates help prevent aliasing effects, etc)
23:01:36 Quit jacobk (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
23:01:49tm512not seeing the X3 on ebay unfortunately. X2S is $60 but not seeing that as supported by rockbox even looking at the unstable ports
23:02:00aaabbba portable player is not going to be able to achieve true 24 bits anyway. the majority of the lower bits will be noise
23:02:35aaabbb192khz is useful only for mastering since you can do things like stretch without interpolation. the most our ears need is 48khz
23:03:36tm512I can only hear up to around 15KHz nowadays so 32KHz would probably be enough for me :P
23:10:05WilliamCI think most audiophiles are full of it.
23:15:49tm512at least high sample rate stuff is fairly harmless snake oil. I feel bad for the people who fall for those scams regarding stuff like obscenely expensive cabling
23:15:53 Join jacobk [0] (
23:16:15tm512I just monoprice cabling for my >$400 headphone setup, heh
23:16:22tm512no complaints
23:17:27tm512s/just/just use/
23:19:10tm512I remember a while back coming across someone who refused to use FLAC because he swore he could hear a difference between it and uncompressed audio
23:19:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:28:19tm512he was not fazed by being shown that a WAV transcoded to FLAC and back resulted in a file with the exact same SHA-256 checksum. I think he was trying to make up some excuse about the act of the CPU decoding FLAC "coloring" the sound somehow, did not manage to explain how that would happen with the exact same bitstream being sent to his PC's DAC
23:29:01aaabbbeven a lossy encoding can't be distinguished from flac/wav at a high enough bitrate
23:29:08 Quit othello7 (Remote host closed the connection)
23:29:51WilliamCaaabbb, that's why I use high end vorbis files, unfortunately that limits my selection of players
23:30:19aaabbbi use opus 96kbps, transparent for most music
23:30:38WilliamCI thought Opus was meant for voice
23:30:39aaabbbif i cared about always being transparent even with classical music i'd go 128 or 160 or something
23:30:50tm512I still do some listening from lossless files, but most of my listening nowadays has been through youtube, which I think uses ~128kbit opus?
23:30:54 Quit hactar|ant (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:30:56tm512that's what I remember reading anyway
23:31:03aaabbbno it's meant for both voice and music. it's a hybrid codec and goes into silk mode at low bitrate which is otpimized for speach, and celt mode at high bitrate which is optimized for music
23:31:32aaabbbso it can be thought of as a hybrid between speex and an improved version of vorbis
23:32:20WilliamCI don't feel like having to convert my stuff to another format to be honest
23:33:50Galoisyou don't really have to convert, you can just start using opus for new files. Most things that play vorbis play opus.
23:34:45aaabbbyeah don't convert vorbis to opus, that would cause quality loss
23:34:53WilliamCIt always does
23:35:13aaabbbif you have the original flac, you can transcode it to opus and then replace the vorbis
23:35:21Galoisopus has our good friend fraunhofer the patent troll running scared. They're claiming that they have patents on opus. Which is complete BS, but the way that the patent game works, even the accusation is enough for them to use to extort money.
23:35:22aaabbbou could cut the file size down significantly while retaining equivalent quality
23:35:36WilliamCIs the quality enough that I would rip all of CD again?
23:36:10WilliamCGood, my house is currently inaccesible due to renovations anyway
23:36:13aaabbbbut when you rip another cd, rip it to opus. when i rip cds, i encode as flac, then save that and put whatever lossy i want on my media player
23:36:19GaloisI mean for example a bunch of the patents are from 2018 and opus was invented in 2012, patents don't work like that, but the lawyers don't care about patently false BS
23:36:30aaabbbGalois: are they the ones who created that patent pool that threatens anyone making hardware implementations? or whatever it is
23:36:55Galoisyeah, they lost their mp3 grift because the mp3 patents all expired, and opus is better than their preferred AAC which they can make money from
23:37:00WilliamCIt's a shame that MP3 is the universal standard all because it was first
23:37:08aaabbbwell, xHE-AAC is better than opus at very low bitrates
23:37:17 Quit m01 (Quit: Konversation terminated.)
23:37:17aaabbbbut 64kbps+ they are pretty equal
23:37:34WilliamCI thought AAC was liked because it allowed copy protection
23:38:22aaabbbit was liked because of itunes
23:38:40WilliamCI never used that
23:39:00WilliamCI have never owned an Apple product
23:39:47WilliamCStuff costs too much
23:39:53tm512when I was a teenager I really liked Mac stuff but I guess most of us are cringe when we're teens
23:39:53aaabbbit's also standard with mpeg
23:40:04 Join m01 [0] (
23:40:34 Join hactar|ant [0] (
23:40:36WilliamCtm512, I think I'm older than you.
23:41:34WilliamCMy school had Apple IIe computers in ever classroom. We had Macs in the computer lab though.
23:42:22tm512yeah, you're probably older than me. I was in high school in the late 00s
23:42:46WilliamCLate 90s for me.
23:43:00WilliamCI graduated in 01.
23:43:07Galois<−− early 90s?!
23:43:15massiveH"have you hugged your computer today?"
23:44:30WilliamCFeel like music players have been replaced with cellphones. Used to be a lot more options. Even Apple quit it.
23:45:10tm512right before I entered high school one of my friends clued me in to the fact that the local college where his mom worked had a hallway full of their decommissioned computers, so my main computers for a good chunk of those years were hand-me-down Macs
23:46:02WilliamCI was never that lucky.
23:46:36tm512really liked OS X for a few years before I hit the point of no return with Linux
23:48:03WilliamCI work for the DoD, you'd have a heart attack about that stuff we destroy
23:49:06tm512probably. my inclination towards saving e-waste has not gone away
23:49:37tm512my primary laptop is a e-waste rescue, a Dell Latitude with a first-gen i5
23:51:03WilliamCMy phone runs on a contracting laptop my company didn't ask for back

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